Brockley betting shop application refused

Glenda Rodgers has written a detailed article about this news here, so we won't try to replicate it, but suffice to say that:

1. This is great news for the life of the high street

2. This will be widely welcomed - we've still never seen a single comment in favour of the planned bookie, on this or any other blog

3. We don't believe that, even if they do re-apply, the Council would be silly enough to grant permission. They know the strength of public feeling about this and are no-doubt greatly relieved by Friday's decision.

4. If the current poll is anything to go by, bar operators should be queueing up to make an alternative application.

39 comments:

Zeno said...

Excellent news for Brockley, and for the High Street in particular.

Anonymous said...

Fantastic news! I'm glad my letter of protest seems to have helped.

Hugh said...

Actually it was my letter that swung it.

Anonymous said...

Excellent! Now if we could only get rid of the others. They seem to be magnets for shady characters doing shady deals, litter, broken glass and noise.

spincat said...

Don't mind a few betting shops personally. Just didn't want one more. Enough already

A bookshop would be so great...

Anonymous said...

Fantastic - delighted! Bring on a nice pub please?

Anonymous said...

well it looks like the application has been resubmitted as of 12 September 2007. Please let me know if anyone plans to object again

Anonymous said...

I agree about a bookshop. It would be nice to follow Sydenhams lead. The Kirkdale Bookshops is a real social hib (and a great bookshop too) and hosts exhibitions and is a goldmine of local information. Sydenham also has a new 'gastopub'in The Dolphin which has a great interior and landscaped garden (although the menu is a bit poncy) which happily sits alongside old style boozers. Perhaps Sydenham should Follow The Brocas lead..i went there last weekend for the first time and thought it was EXCELLENT.

gary said...

So what is the exact issue with the bookies? The concern that we will all end up in gambling anonymous? That there will be house repossessions throughout the neibourhood?
More like the worry over house prices, and pure snobbery. Too many people who cant afford to live in Dulwich, so are praying that Brockley will become the next little gem – with organic olives and boutiques galore.

So if the campaigners are so dead set against a bookies what are their plans for the empty shop? Are they pulling together to set up a community business, or working with the council to ensure an independent business will be subsidised?
Or will the old homeview sit empty like the parade of shops opposite, but I suppose these yummy mummies prefer a an empty shop, than a bookies or off licence.
Would I be right in guessing that no one wants to take the risk of setting up an independent store. Maybe Brockley is not ready to become the next Dulwich so lets celebrate a variety of fried chicken and booze shops, rather than wasted vacant shops.
Or are we hoping a Foxtons moves in?

Luke said...

Hmmm, perhaps becuase there are already three other bookies on this road and, if Homeview is to close, local residents would want another independent outlet in its place...

...not everyone moved to Brockley in the hope that Moens, Sopers and organic chocolate shops would follow.

Maybe, and pause for though now Gary, people are living here because 1. Brockley's just a nice, leafy, non-manic place to live in London and 2. Many of us wanted to get on the property ladder and found that Brockley ticked a lot of boxes (location, price, atmosphere), regardless of whether we could, or couldn't afford Dulwich or Brixton...

Hugh said...

The empty bookmakers shop is, unfortunately, not ideally placed to become a successful cafe. It needs to be nearer the station (as does Moonbow Jakes).

The reason people resist a new bookies is neighbourhood tone. It makes the place looks shabby the way old men swigging from cans of lager makes the place looks shabby.

What we need is a massive bakery that does interesting bread. That would put the place on the map.

Bread-lovingly yours,

Hugh

gary said...

There are more than three bars, and a number of convenience stores on this street already – so why cant there be a few bookies?
I am sure the company trying to open have done their homework – and there is a demand for another bookies from local residents. Most likely residents who have been here years.( a few years back, before weatherspoons opened, two of the bookies were surviving before there was a pub this side of the tracks) The other bookies are always pretty busy – Brockley has always been pretty quiet and leafy, and this wont be changed by another bookies. A bookies would shut much earlier than a bar – and there wouldn’t be any pretentious types clogging up the pavement with laptop and roll your owns.
As for a bookshop?? Wake up a few of you might waste time browsing in there, but it would go under within a few months – Waterstones and Amazon have sadly killed off the future of local bookshops – there was a reason Homeview shut.
Come on Luke, it was Hoxton you really wanted to live hey?

Hugh said...

I agree that a bookshop wouldn't make it other than as an act of indulgence by someone not interested in trading profit.

Bookies are ugly places and depress us all, however. Like fee-charging cashpoints and money transfer shops, they tend to crop up where the poor are waiting to be exploited, hence doing their bit to keep people in a rut.

Anyone seen that house on sale for £950,000 on Drake Road, by the way? Corker.

Monkeyboy said...

I'm guessing here, we're all a bit middle class and feel a bit guilty but we do want a bit of the Hoxton/Dulwich thing don't we? Go on a bit of honesty guys.

Luke said...

Hoxton - of course, but I never found the right hairdresser...

Caroline said...

Gary is talking absolute rubbish…. I do not believe that a high number of residents frequent bookmakers – instead a few spend a lot of time in them, spending money that they have not got, these few are likely to be from the social housing in the area, as I am assuming that they have not got jobs to go to….
I have no guilt about wanting our area to improve and for the amenities to reflect the current residents needs. I like many others in the conservation area have a young family so would certainly utilise a deli, bakers, or perhaps a family friendly bar.
Hugh is right bookmakers are ugly, they attract the kind of person that we do not want in our area, and let down Brockley.
The one worthwhile point Gary has made, is the difficulty an independent shop keeper may face today - However I would be happy to have an upmarket mini supermarket like the simply food M&S on the door step, as another qualm I have is with the unorganised, poorly stocked and often dirty looking food stores on the high street.

Caroline said...

I forgot to say - I am proud to be a Yummy Mummy!!! Caroline

Monkeyboy said...

"....they attract the kind of person that we do not want in our area...."

Jesus, tell you what what why not build a fence around the conservation area so the low lifes from can't come in and spoil your day - except the ones who clean your house of course.

leenewham said...

I totally disagree with Gary, there are loads of betting shops and they really do nothing for the local community. I agree with 'anonymous' about a bookshop, the Kirkdale one in Sydenham is great (and thriving). There are not enough places to have a drink (socialise) or eat (more socialising), The Broca is a great role model for what Brockley can become and more of what people want judging by what people say of it. As for all this rubbish about house prices and 'making it like Dulwich'..I like Dulwich, I can afford to live there. Why do I like Dulwich, becasue they have nice places to go to, they actually have THINGS TO DO THERE. There are more betting shops than cafes in Brockley. And all betting shops look the same, do the same thing. As for celebrating the fried chicken shops...er...it's the first time EVER I HAVE HEARD ANYONE SAY THAT.

Croftonparker said...

I am afraid a busy or popular bookshop doesn’t make it a popular one. The Kirkdale bookshop faced closure not too long ago, which was well reported in the Mercury. People these days will not want to wait for a shop to order something in, they will go on the net or down to Greenwich Waterstones which will have a larger stock and the ability to offer more competitive prices.
I have never been in a bookies, they don’t appeal to me so I wouldn’t choose another. But I think we need to question why there are not more new businesses taking the opportunity of vacant premises. The Marion (Christian) bookshop opposite Homeview shut well over a year ago and has sat empty ever since, next door is now empty too. As Gary points out is the council working with landlords to prevent empty derelict looking shops?

Anonymous said...

What about a womens bar. Since i moved into borckley in the 1980's there has been a large community of gay women. The boys have stonewalls down the road and a pub in every corner. Come on girls what about it

veggiegirl said...

for those who want to take their objections further, there's a petition at Toad's Mouth Too, and a number of notices in the area giving an email address for further information, such as guidelines for valid objections. As I'm not 100% sure I remember the email address correctly I'm reluctant to post it here! (Must go and check one of those notice again...)

I used to live in West Hampstead, where West End Lane had a bookie (is that the correct singular?!) and a massage parlour, as well as plenty of other distractions such as cafes, restaurants, a good bakery and yes, even an independent bookshop. I'm sure Brockley Road is very far from that particular mix but it has plenty of bookies already and I for one was very sorry to see Homeview go - it had a good choice of DVDs, especially foreign language and older films.

Arguments about online purchases / rental of films and books could equally apply to gambling - except that it's an addictive behaviour that will be encouraged and fostered by physical premises such as betting shops. Enough already.

Hugh said...

Online gambling is available to those with home (or work) internet access, and I'd bet those using the local bookies don't have such access. So the 'need' for a bookies persists despite online gambling.

Not so DVD rental shops. These have been completely superseded by the better and cheaper online providers.

veggiegirl said...

Hugh, I beg to differ re DVD rental - I've joined an online rental service & it's fine but I miss Homeview for the experience of going there, browsing and not quite sure of what I'm going to come home with. But I accept that I'm probably in the minority in a lot of things in life!

And your comment re online gambling touches on what I didn't get to in my post - as those without online access at home or work are likely to be from the less well off (but no less "desirable") strata of society - so surely there is no need to encourage them to waste their money on an addictive behaviour which is designed to rid them of money they might not have?

Hugh said...

Veggiegirl, browsing for DVDs is like like browsing for groceries in my opinion - something best done online at home. I don't want to spend an hour walking to the rental shop, browsing then coming home with a single DVD (which then needs returning) when I can choose 10 titles at once and have them delivered by post, one by one. Each to his own.

As to whether people shouldn't be encouraged to gamble, I think people should be free to choose how to waste their money. I just don't want them doing it in that way near me.

Kate said...

If you don't have internet access for gambling at home, then surely you don't have internet access for DVD-browsing either?

So the argument that the bookies is in some way more essential to people without internet access seems a bit flawed.

Hugh said...

The point was that poor people who gamble provide a market for the cornershop bookies, while the market for cornership DVD rentals has largely disappeared.

Steve O said...

Brace your self for the news....

Wynne-Hatton Leisure Organisation Limited has applied to Lewisham Council for a licence to open a large betting shop at 329-331 Brockley Road. (The old Homeview Video shop). THIS IS A NEW APPLICATION.

If you want to object to this then you will need to let Lewisham Council know and send a letter to:

LICENSING SERVICES
LONDON BOROUGH OF LEWISHAM
2ND FLOOR, LAURENCE HOUSE
1 CATFORD ROAD
LONDON SE6 4RU

THE COUNCIL MUST RECEIVE YOUR LETTER BY TUESDAY 9TH OCTOBER 2007

YOUR REASONS TO OBJECT MIGHT INCLUDE:

• THERE ARE SCHOOLS NEARBY & BUS STOPS BY THE SHOP
• WE ALREADY HAVE A BETTING SHOP OPPOSITE (CORALS)
• THERE ARE FIVE OTHER BETTING SHOPS NEARBY
• GREENWICH MAGISTRATES’ COURT HAVE ALREADY TURNED DOWN A RECENT APPLICATION.
• THERE ARE RECOVERY HOUSES WITH PEOPLE WHO HAVE ADDICTIONS NEARBY

As I understand it under the new Gambling Act (2005) the Council decides by looking at the following criteria:

1. Preventing children or other vulnerable persons from being harmed or exploited by gambling.
2. Preventing a source of crime or disorder or being associated with crime or disorder or being used to support crime.
3. Ensure gambling is conducted in a fair and open way.

This will probably be the first application Lewisham considers under the new legislation. Your support can help to make it an unsuccessful one. Sign the petitions or write to the Council.

Thanks
Steve

Anonymous said...

Sorry but I live in Brockley so I can stay well away from Bankers, small minded I know but please bankers go and enjoy dulwich. ( best to stay anon i think)

Anonymous said...

SteveO. If a bar was planning to open up in the ex homeview could you not object on the terms of;

THERE ARE SCHOOLS NEARBY & BUS STOPS BY THE SHOP
• WE ALREADY HAVE A Bar TWO DOORS DOWN (MONNBOW JAKES)
• THERE ARE SIX OTHER PUBS/BARS NEARBY
• THERE ARE RECOVERY HOUSES WITH PEOPLE WHO HAVE ADDICTIONS (ALCOHOL&/or DRUGS) NEARBY

I prefer Hughs honesty 'people do not want another betting shop as it brings down neighbourhood tone' along with the fact that you would not use the betting shop therefore do not want one?
I would like to see Sue from the green council admit that too. There is a gay sauna in new cross near schools and a bus stop and sooooo? ???. I would hope the sauna a bar or bookies would not let a school kid in.

max said...

What about converting the "old and tired" (to use an expression popular with regeneration officers) Rivoli Ballroom into an upmarket Casino to cater for the adrenaline needs of the resident city-worker?

Bea said...

Anon 7 – what you say is entirely valid, however, I think you miss the point.

True - the reason I don’t want another betting shop in Brockley is because “it brings down neighbourhood tone'. Yet this “honest” opinion is not what is going to sway the council. In order to get to the end I desire I need to use the means the council stipulate which is to list the reasons they consider valid for a rejection, namely:

• THERE ARE SCHOOLS NEARBY & BUS STOPS BY THE SHOP
• WE ALREADY HAVE A BETTING SHOP OPPOSITE (CORALS)
• THERE ARE FIVE OTHER BETTING SHOPS NEARBY
• GREENWICH MAGISTRATES’ COURT HAVE ALREADY TURNED DOWN A RECENT APPLICATION.
• THERE ARE RECOVERY HOUSES WITH PEOPLE WHO HAVE ADDICTIONS NEARBY

Yes, the system seems hypocritical … yet if it’s the game I have to play to stop the betting shop I’m a willing participant.

So, I’ll be sending another letter and rounding up any friends in the area who wish to do the same.

P.S. I have finally got myself a bloging name “Bea” instead of being anon!

Spincat said...

Going up several notches, in relation to the almost constant refrain, when one mentions DVD rental, book or music shops here (that they are an outdated busines model/ that only a fool or a madman would go there if they can shop from their bedroom etc etc) ...

...I was going to leave it, but then I saw this from the excellent transpontine local blog which expresses how I feel beautifully. It mentions Homeview, which is why I quote from it

" Last Bus Home has alerted us to the closure of Essential Music, the bargain CD shop in Greenwich market. I am sad when music or book shops close, to me they are more than just places which sell commodities since what they sell can open up windows into other worlds. More specifically they often function as places to come across like minded people and to circulate information about interesting things going on locally - so at Essential there were always flyers about local gigs and clubs as well as a great selection of music (especially indieish stuff). The late lamented Homeview video in Brockley had a similar vibe..." (Transpontine)

Hugh said...

Perhaps, Spincat, and all very well if as a business owner you're prepared to fund a place for other cats to hang out and chat about the world and their discoveries. In reality, John Cusack's version of Hi-Fidelity tends to invite personal insolvency.

Marisa said...

Regarding Steve's message. It's a criteria which the council set down so inorder for the objection letters to have some affect they need to include the criteria's Steve has outlined in his blogg.
The new Gambling Act (2005) the Council decides by looking at the following criteria:
1. Preventing children or other vulnerable persons from being harmed or exploited by gambling.
2. Preventing a source of crime or disorder or being associated with crime or disorder or being used to support crime.
3. Ensure gambling is conducted in a fair and open way.
By the way I'm not a Yummy mummy and I'm still against another betting shop. I don't necessarily want another cafe/bar either. Is it too much to ask for a useful shop that serves the majority of the community rather than serving under 3% of the community?

Spincat said...

Don't agree that independent book and video shops are invariably a recipe for insolvency. There are long established small bookshops in south east London such as Kirkdale and Crow on the Hill. Homeview probably predated Amazon - it was here that long.
Everything changes - you'll soon be boasting about how you do everything locally and never shop on-line, because it will shortly go out of fashion.

Anonymous said...

Can we please stop the "Yummy Mummy" nonsense.
You cannot call yourself one, or deny being a Yummy Mummy. That is not your call.

Brockley Nick said...

Presumably they are allowed to deny their Yummy Mummy status on the grounds of not having children?

Hugh said...

This site's a bit too right-on to promote the use of 'Yummy Mummy', isn't it? Given that the term is derogatory for kept middle-class housewives of a certain age.

Hughey Pooey

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