London Bridge and the East London Line

High-fives all round in Forest Hill and Sydenham, as the Forest Hill Society blog reports that there will be no reduction to their overland services as a result of the introduction of the East London Line extension.

"...new information recently received from Network Rail, via London TravelWatch, suggests that, as a result of our continued campaign, most of our concerns about their proposals have now been addressed.Rather than a reduction in peak services to London Bridge the plan now is that the total number of trains between 7am and 10am will remain at the current level of 18 trains, with only a slight adjustment to the present hourly spread of trains. All trains are planned to be 8 carriages long, whereas some are currently only 6 carriages long. This represents an overall increase in carriages serving Forest Hill and Sydenham during peak time."

We were never convinced that the threat to services was as bad as they feared, but there's no doubt that the two societies have lobbied very effectively on this issue and that this is good news for South East London.

31 comments:

Chap said...

Hmmm....I'll give the forrest hill chaps the benefit of the doubt but from what I've seen they were simply misinterpreting the proposals.

Still it's nice to have things confirmed.

patrick1971 said...

Bit worrying the bit on the Forest Hill blog which says there won't be any direct Charing Cross services from 2009. Okay, so they're only evenings and Sundays now, but why change that?

Bea said...

Great glad to read that the service will improve - longer trains, yeah!

Luke said...

Yeah. It's the potential lack of Cx service that bugs me too. Very handy after a few late-night shnifters when all you want is a seat all the way home...

Headhunter said...

All very nice for the good denizens of Forst Hill and Sydenham but does this mean that the service through Brockley will remain the same post ELL opening?

Anonymous said...

Has anyone else seen the small article in the London Lite which says that the Cheapside area is to become a 'bluewater' or 'brentcross' shopping district (an area usually dead at weekends) by 2012? If true this is potentially another big news story for Brockley and the ELL.

Nick any more news on this???

Brockley Nick said...

Cheapside is a little outside the usual remit, but I presume they are referring to a development called One New Change, which mercifully won't be anything like bluewater. It's part of the city's strategy to compete with canary wharf, by providing retail space which it currently lacks. ONC is smaller and will be geared towards the lunchtime shopper more than an all day visit.

It will be another useful thing on the ell, but who needs that, when you have the delights of surrey quays a few stops closer!

Anonymous said...

true, true...

Brabuhr said...

Now that this battle’s been won, might it be a good idea to turn our attention to increasing the frequency of services at Crofton Park Station?

The following South London Route Utilisation Strategy document, "South London RUS Draft for Consultation"

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browseDirectory.aspx?dir=\RUS%20Documents\Route%20Utilisation%20Strategies\South%20London&pageid=2895&root=

includes a proposal to divert a current Victoria to London Bridge service to run via the Catford loop (ie Crofton Park). (Option 10.1, p.145)

Michael Abrahams said...

headhunter: Brockley and Honor Oak Park will be getting more services than at present as all the fast trains will stop.

chap: There is the possibility that we misunderstood / were misinformed regarding the proposals, there was no deliberate misinterpretation.

When we read a reduction of 2 trains per hour during peak times, we assumed this to be part of the proposals. Apparently this is no longer the case.

We still have more clarification to get regarding the off-peak services to Victoria, but for the moment it appears the hundreds of people who supported our campaign have been heard.

Headhunter said...

Thanks for the clarity Michael. Sounds like Brockley will become quite a busy station then what with increased flow to London Bridge through fast trains stopping as well as the new overland trains

Anonymous said...

Lets hope they sort out the station access debacle from the west side of the station.

Brockley Nick said...

@Anon - agreed. I have a lot of faith in TfL (taking over the station in 2009) and I think we can be more optimistic about that happening with them in charge.

Anonymous said...

It would be great to be able to see plans, or proposals for anything they might do -is this something that they will release nearer the time or will it just happen as a fait accompli (spelling?)?

JPM said...

Hats off to Forest Hill re their campaign. They will have clearly made their mark and this will carry a great deal of weight in the future. We need a similar campaign to restart the old overland to Victoria.

Anonymous said...

Yes well done Forest Hill. Community power in action and achieving what they set out to do.

headhunter said...

If they re-opened the old high level Brockley Lane station, Brockers would become quite a major interchange!

Brockley Nick said...

Actually, I'd really love it if someone who's involved in the upper rail link to Victoria campaign could come forward and explain their rationale - maybe pen an article for the site, because it sounds like a doomed and unnecessary campaign to me, but I have never heard it properly explained.

Chap said...

Wasn't meant as a dig at the Foresst Hill crowd. Well done and all that, perhaps Network Rail should have explained their position a bit clearer if there were no cuts anticipated. Would have saved a lot of confusion.

Headhunter said...

Nick - Doomed perhaps but why unecessary? Surely a direct link into Victoria via the high level line would be useful - you can never have too many transport links!

Brockley Nick said...

Sorry, unnecessary is the wrong word. It wouldn't be as simple as re-opening the station, you would need to spend loads of money on bringing it up to scratch and inevitably, reintroducing the service would have loads of knock-on effects on rail operators. The existing commuter service seems very limited and co-exists with very slow freight trains, which limit how much you could increase the frequency. So, given that we will have a shiny new ELL and improved services to London Bridge (which is also being completetly rebuilt and offer lots more services to Kings Cross) and given that a Victoria service would be of such limited value, I can't see why it would be anyone's high priority. Certainly not if I was a planner with a limited pot of cash to spend. Even as a local, if they have money to spend on Brockley, I'd sooner it was spent on doing up the low-level station properly - providing disabled access and better access on the west side.

Maybe it's simpler than I imagine and maybe there are loads more people who want to take a train to Victoria (rather than a train to London Bridge in 8 mins) than I realise, but I'd like someone to present a proper case, rather than just say it would be nice.

Monkeyboy said...

Great idea but not at all simple I'm sure. One of the big issues is that there are not enough terminating platforms on a lot of routes. No idea if NR have done the analysis but it won't be simply a matter of re-opening it. You may well find that it causes other services into Victoria to be degraded?

Mind you I could be talking a load of cock, what do I know?

Monkeyboy said...

Nick seems to agree so clearly I'm not talking cock at all!

Headhunter said...

You've both convinced me and anyway Monkeyboy, I thought you worked in something to do with rail - you should be our resident expert in all matters rail related!

Seriously though, it certainly would be nice to have that link to Victoria but I guess the project may involve a lot of money an effort, which as you say could be put into the low level station

Monkeyboy said...

They don't let me work on anything that may actually be useful or interesting.

By the way did you know that LUL have finally seem sense and decided to remove all the chocolate machines on the tube? Only took them 30 years to realise that only tourists are stupid enough to put money in the things. You only do it once, it's like a right of passage for every Londoner.

Michael Abrahams said...

In answer to Anon @ 17:18:

One other piece of good news is that Honor Oak Park and Brockley are in the next round of Access for All funding from the DfT. Nothing is likely to change until 2012-2015 but this is earlier than thousands of other stations in the country. For some details see http://www.dft.gov.uk/transportforyou/
access/rail/railstations/access/
accessforallstations

Anonymous said...

Thanks for that Michael, although I wonder how this works out with TFL doing their own changes to Brockley for the arrival of the ELL? I hope we don't have to wait for the 2012-15 bracket for that.

Monkeyboy said...

It's another pot of money TfL have access to me thinks.

Bit like the tube, they have (or had till we pissed it away) money for the PPP tube work. Later on they had additional money for 'step free' schemes which they tried to tack on to some of the station works. Made an already fiendishly complex contract that no bugger understood in to something....well it gives me a migraine just thinking about it.

andy pandy pudding & pie said...

There was a bloke doing a study on the re-opening of the victoria line a while ago at brockley station.

Not enough footflow apparently, but I think they are planning another study sometime soon. When i saw him it was a sunday.

JPM said...

Thanks for the information, Michael

I think it's important that we try to push this forward, before 2012.

The provision for handicapped travellers using Brockley Station is literally 'one-sided'. A person in a wheelchair may be able to get to the ticket office, however they will never be able to get to platform One without assistance. Clearly a lift or ramp is needed.

It would be a disappointment to see London host the Olympics in 2012 only to see para-athletes and other disabled travellers stranded at platform Two at Brockley - which heads away from the stadium.

JPM said...

The headless corpse found in Kilburn reveals that Brockley isn't the only place suffering from crime.

The gruesome discovery of the headless torso was made by a member of the public yesterday in Kingsgate Place, which runs on a right parallel to, then links, Kilburn High Road.

The area is covered in CCTV cameras (like UBR) and one wonders if anyone is actually watching the screens, like Upper Brockley Road.

The CCTV formed a Single Regeneration Budget (SRB) grant, which was funded by the London Development Agency(LDA). This organisation is incredibly blase' with the public purse (as will be shown).

Kilburn is said to have 'benefited' to the tune of £6.6 million pounds but much of this went to the usual 'snouts at the trough' and directors sitting on the SRB.

A small sidebar to this site perhaps, but, nevertheless, relevant to the forthcoming Mayoral election. The recent troubles of funding now enveloping Mayor Ken actual began in Kilburn, where I used to live in fact, and where I served on the SRB - albeit briefly.

I became a whistleblower.

I recently spoke to journalist Andrew Gilligan of teh Evening Standard about corruption and the LDA and Ken Livingstone. (As he didn't get back to me I wonder if the torso may be his!)

Ironically, Mr Gilligan didn't need to look any further than my link below for details of how the siphoning of public funds went on apace at Kilburn - under Livingstone's nose.

See:
http://thebigretort.blogspot.com/2007/05/kilburn-srb-scandal.html

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