Increased Security At Stephen Lawrence Centre

The Mayor of Lewisham has agreed that a one-off grant of up to £15,000 should be made available to increase security at the Stephen Lawrence Centre in Deptford.

The funds will be used by the Centre to engage a consultant and help improve security around the building.

Sir Steve Bullock, Mayor of Lewisham, said:

“We are extremely proud to have the Stephen Lawrence Centre in Lewisham and have worked very closely with them over the years. The Centre is an important facility for young people locally and across London. Since the recent incident we have been working with the Centre’s management to find ways to stop this happening again.”

The Mayor approved the funding at a meeting of the Mayor & Cabinet on Wednesday, 5 March.

109 comments:

Anonymous said...

As I recollect there were security cameras around there while the place was being built.

A expect the solution will be to put them back again.

All of this could have been avoided with a little forward planning. The fact that the previous building was burnt down might have suggested that security was a concern.

Someone made a mistake.

JPM said...

All the mayor has done is yet again display his need to call in a 'consultant' at the drop off a hat.

And who will it be?

Usually someone else on the mayor's gravy train, whose appraisal will have been written over a weekend - that's Saturday and, possibly, Sunday morning - and the bill to the taxpayer? Why, £14,999.99 for the 'consultation'. (That's just part One, as Two and Three usually follow wher funds allow.)

Has Lee Jasper gone into the security business? Watch this space.

Anonymous said...

JPM, why don't you put in an FOI request and report back to us.

Ewan said...

Security- the place looks like a prison already. What an eyesore it is!

JPM said...

Anonymous... because there are only so many hours in the day.

Why don't you do it? I'm sure you'll find I'm right.

Anyway, whatever is wrong with calling round three competitors and asking for a (free)quote?

Bet you the consultant will be a one-man band, with a number of past business failings, who folds the business before needing to do a Companies House or tax return, with an offshore bank account in the Virgin Islands, and a previous relationship with the Mayor. The company to which will have a number of 'invisible' directors.(I might add the possibilty that his or her main residence will be in the Cricklewood area, but that would be too spooky and cynical.)

Anonymous said...

Not happy about it. Luv the guys in the garage, gives a real sense of community on the street. Admit it could do with a facelift though. Would rather that than a block of flat that will mean my cars on an already busy road.

Hugh said...

The place looks like a high-security unit for offending pikeys. Who on earth accepted the design? It makes the flats beside the DLR look positively Upper West Side.

I've lost faith in the Brock and am getting out.

Anonymous said...

If we're only allowed to to use it for 'church purposes' could we start our own religion?

Brockleyism....Guilt, sexual repression, fire & brimstone, a bit of singing and overpriced wholefoods.

Only those on £45k or above allowed in. should keep the lower orders out.

Hugh said...

Morning Monkeyboy.

Anonymous said...

Good riddance Hugh if you are really leaving the Brock, we don't need your racist comments about 'pikeys'.

Richard Elliot said...

On my cycle home from work I have noticed a few extra security patrols checking up on the place, there doesn't seem to be a permanent security presence.

I agree with other comments, that the current railings are pretty ugly. You would hope that on a road with a shop opposite and reasonable amount of passing traffic would mean that some form of reasonable security solution was possible.

Hugh said...

How is 'pikey' racist?

JPM said...

Let's call a spade a spade...

Some people go ballistic when that phrase is used. And yet it has no racist derivation whatsoever. It's been corrupted by a PC Brigade with little sense of history. Albeit, 'pikey' has only one meaning surely.

andy pandy pudding & pie said...

it could be used as a descriptive word, not meant to be hurtful.

Even if it was hurtful, cant see how it would be racist.

per www/m-w.com. racist: "a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race"

thats an incredibly wide definition. I wonder what reference dictionaries are used in court?

Danja said...

How is 'pikey' racist?

It is a derogatory term for a gypsy/romani.

As was chav/chavi.

The meaning has shifted, but it's a nasty analogy, much like the new "gay".

Much more unpleasant than a gentle f**k, I'd suggest. Speaking of which, I see my advice was possibly good advice - if a bit brusquely framed.

Hugh said...

News to me. Everyone I know thinks 'pikey' means chav or something similar.

Anonymous said...

You know a lot of racists....

Anonymous said...

Don't worry Hugh, it's fine. Using the word 'Pikey' isn't offensive unless of course you are of a gypsie or Romany persuasion, then of course it is.

How can you live in London in the 21st Century and not know 'Pikey' is racist?

ElijahBailey said...

In my view 'Pikey' is a racist term in the sense that it is stereotyping a group, and summing said group up with a name, and then using that name for the purposes of being derogatory.

An equivalent is "He bartered like a Jew".

Anonymous said...

Marco Pierre White fell at the same hurdle on Hell's Kitchen. His use of the word prompted one of the 'celebrities' to leave the show. ITV skirted the issue because Marco was the programme's star and I don't think they knew quite how to handle it. He made an apology in a later interview I think.

Anonymous said...

still hammering your keyboards? do you guys not have a social life?

I'm off to bed...ciao

Anonymous said...

It's racist because it's a derogatory term used to describe an ethnic minority - in this instance anyone with Romany blood. It's been widened now to incorporate any traveller and also anyone viewed as the poor 'underclass'. Given Hugh's internet persona it's particularly distasteful that it should come from him but perhaps not altogether surprising. The least surprising element is the classic line, 'news to me, Everyone I know blah blah blah...."

Anonymous said...

Not much of social life if you're off to bed.

Anonymous said...

I was out with 'friends' all day in Brick Lane and am now tired and emotional and need sleep.

Still, you carry on sitting there in your Y fronts tapping away with your virtual buddies.

Sweet dreams.

andy pandy pudding & pie said...

well, i really had no idea the word 'pikey' is racist either, in fact, i dont think anyone i know would think of it being racist.

I never use the word so it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I guess thats why i didnt know.

spincat said...

The term has changed its meaning since Victorian times, when it did refer only to travellers and Romany people: it is derived from the word 'Turnpike'. (Not sure if this came about cos it referrred to people who were working on the roads - as per the the term 'navvie' which referred to people working on the construction of trailways and canals - or whether it referred to people who were simply travelling 'on the road'.)

It is now used as a more general term of abuse, similar to the term 'white trash' in the USA.

Because of its origins, travellers don't like it: it is versatile enough a term to be used with hatred in many different ways. That is why it should be avoided - travellers have a bad enough time and so we should avoid using terms usually directed towards them as a deliberate insult.

I think many young people who use the term now, are not aware of its history or that it has offensive connotations for travellers. It is sometimes used by younger people interchangeably with the term 'chav' though chav does not have quite the same connotations for travellers. (Chav, incidentally, has its origins in a Romany woord for 'young lad'.)

Anonymous said...

Out with 'friends'- do the quotation marks mean that they were not actual friends?

Anonymous said...

There's glory for you, as Humpty Dumpty once observed.

I enjoyed the assertion that my internet persona worsens any offence I may have caused.

These things aside, if the word has widened its meaning to something like white trash then the judge must surely direct the jury to give a verdict of not guilty.
That aside, it appears everyone I know is ignorant of the purported origins of the word.

If I called someone gay would people here tell me I should be careful before accusing someone of happiness?

Anonymous said...

"If I called someone gay would people here tell me I should be careful before accusing someone of happiness?"

Oh dear....we're in the death throes now. Give it up Hugh before you dig yourself a bigger hole.

Hugh said...

OK, lazy of me to use the word 'call'. I of course meant 'describe'.
Still waiting to for a retort containing the semblance of an argument.

spincat said...

Not sure what your arguement is - that the term isn't offensive?

Anonymous said...

There is no argument? You used the word Pikey and you we're wrong to do so because it's racist. Where's the apology, the semblance of contrition? All you needed to do was apologise and say you got it wrong.
Instead you try to worm you're way out of it with bluster and bullsh*t. What a stand up guy you are Hugh.

Anonymous said...

words are not inherently racist. If used the word 'bubble' to describe my greek friend while we chatted in a pub he wouldn't be offended. If someone used it while interviewing him for a job it would in my view be racist, or at least offensive. Same word, different context.

We're all smart enough to know when we're using a word to offend. It has little to do with a words origin

Hugh said...

Shall I repeat the points I made above, or do you want to respond to them? Getting hissy isn't a response.

I didn't expect you to get the Lewis Carroll reference, by the way.

Anonymous said...

That point is irrelevant in this context. Words are not inherently racist but the meaning behind them obviously can be. Pikey should no more be used in the context Hugh did as the word Nigger should be used to describe a black person.

Would Hugh have used that word in the presence of a traveller? As some one who has come across several traveller families through work I know that if he had if he had he would be having his jaw reconstructed in hospital right now.

What worries me the most is that Hugh is still trying to justify the use of the word. Hold your hand up say you got it wrong and we can go back to talking about cafes.
PJ

Anonymous said...

If you'd like to explain it to me in person I'd be happy to come around your house and discuss it with you in your kitchen...

Anonymous said...

I agree...my point is that trying to wiggle out of responsibility because a words origin is quiet innocent is no real defence. If your a smart, well read person you tend to know when your being offensive.

If the person who the comment is aimed at says 'that's offensive' then I would hope that the person who said it would respond by saying 'sorry didn't realise' and move on. It's politeness if nothing else.

Hugh said...

Anonymous said...

'That point is irrelevant in this context. Words are not inherently racist but the meaning behind them obviously can be. Pikey should no more be used in the context Hugh did as the word Nigger should be used to describe a black person.

Would Hugh have used that word in the presence of a traveller? As some one who has come across several traveller families through work I know that if he had if he had he would be having his jaw reconstructed in hospital right now.

What worries me the most is that Hugh is still trying to justify the use of the word. Hold your hand up say you got it wrong and we can go back to talking about cafes.'

Taking your points in turn, since you clearly have no intention of answering mine:

1. Words are not inherently racist. That is obvious.

2. What context was I using the word in? And why not? No argument there or precision, just assertion.

3. I wouldn't use the word in front of someone I considered a pikey. Ditto 'chav' or 'lowlife'. So?

4. I'm not 'still' trying to justify anything. I'm waiting for some clarity on your side as all I see is fuzzy righteousness.

Anonymous said...

Hugh - what clarity are you looking for? Whether it's okay or not to use the word Pikey?

Hugh said...

State your case or spare us your silly posturing.

Anonymous said...

My case is this - it was wrong for you in to use the word Pikey on this internet forum on thee grounds of racism. You wrote -

"The place looks like a high-security unit for offending pikeys".

Substitute the word Pikey for Nigger -because both are equally offensive terms to the minority groups they represent. You don't seem to either know this or accept this. Do you still insist that the word is okay?

Hugh said...

I know what the N-word means and wouldn't use it.

I wasn't aware 'pikey' had racist connotations - see my initial response above.

In this connection Wikipdedia says:

'In recent years, the definition has become loose and is sometimes used to refer to a wide section of the (generally urban) underclass of the country, or merely a person of any social class who "lives on the cheap". This seems to be the meaning intended by Stephen Fry in an episode of QI, grouping together "hoodies and pikeys and chavs", and intimating that these people are of a sort who "go out on the town, beating people up and drinking Bacardi Breezers".'

So not necessarily racist, although Wikipedia goes on to discuss the traveller-related meanings you mention.

Since you seem to accept that a word isn't inherently racist, I think the most you can accuse me of is using a word with one meaning in mind without knowing it had another.

Agreed?

Or are you saying that the broader meaning itself makes use of the word unacceptable?

Anonymous said...

I would like to move on from this now because it's getting boring but...

For a start I would suggest to not go to Wikipedia if you're looking for facts.

in response....

A word isn't inherently racist. Words become racist through their use and the context, etc. The N word has gone through a period of appropriation by the black community in recent years to reclaim that word and take the sting out of it. This can be seen in hip hop songs and movies. As a white male however i am not really in a position to use the word or make that judgement of whether i can use it or not because of the historical connotations associated with it.

I'm sure you're not a regular watcher of 'big brother' but in the last series an 18 year old middle class white girl used the word (in what she saw as affectionate way) to one of the black girls in the house while the two of them were dancing. The black girl couldn't believe that she had dared to use it - in any context, and within minutes the white girl was ejected from the programme and Channel 4 had to make an apology.

I accept that the word Pikey is a newer word than the N word and that it is possible to have heard it without realising what it's true meaning is. As I mentioned I have spent some time with several traveller families and regardless of what is says on wikipedia, they see the word as a derogatory term that the mainstream uses to describe them and people who have traveller blood who are part of the diaspora from eastern europe. The actual origins of the term are irrelevant as are the origins of the N word - it doesn't really matter where it came from - it only matters what it means to people now.

I wasn't the anonymous who posted the first response to your post - but in my opinion after the first few cries of indignation from various posters all it would have taken was a simple "sorry I f**ked up/didn't know and won't use it again" rather than the stance of 'well everyone I know says...' - which lets face it, is no endorsement when you're the one to come out with (what on the face of it) looks like a racist comment. Everyone I know, knows it's wrong to use it but I accept that as it's a relatively new word this might not be universal.

People are entitled to think or say what they like but on a public forum i think it would be nice if we didn't use that word again, because it may cause offence to some people - and Brockley Central should really be the place for that.


To clarify - i also don't watch big brother regularly - but i do work in the tv industry.

Anonymous said...

"Since you seem to accept that a word isn't inherently racist, I think the most you can accuse me of is using a word with one meaning in mind without knowing it had another.

Agreed?"


yes agreed.

Anonymous said...

also to clarify - Brockley central shouldN'T be the place for that.

Sorry - typing never a strong point

Hugh said...

Difficult to keep track of all the Anons, but one of them said the following above. My responses in brackets:

...I have spent some time with several traveller families and regardless of what is says on wikipedia, they see the word as a derogatory term that the mainstream uses to describe them and people who have traveller blood who are part of the diaspora from eastern europe [Accepted. But what about the way I see the word?]

The actual origins of the term are irrelevant as are the origins of the N word - it doesn't really matter where it came from - it only matters what it means to people now. [If that's true, what about what it means to me?]

...all it would have taken was a simple "sorry I f**ked up/didn't know and won't use it again" rather than the stance of 'well everyone I know says...' - which lets face it, is no endorsement when you're the one to come out with (what on the face of it) looks like a racist comment. [I thought you said the meaning of a word is a question of what people here and now take it to mean. Are you now saying the view of everyone I know is irrelevant?]

Everyone I know, knows it's wrong to use it but I accept that as it's a relatively new word this might not be universal. [In citing everyone you know you're using an argument you've just said I can't us.]

Oh, and I think there was something about not looking to the Wiki for guidance. Well (a) why not, and (b) should I look to this site instead? Why?

Hugh said...

PS This is too easy. Try thinking clearly then writing it down.

Anonymous said...

Oh dear -

..I have spent some time with several traveller families and regardless of what is says on wikipedia, they see the word as a derogatory term that the mainstream uses to describe them and people who have traveller blood who are part of the diaspora from eastern europe [Accepted. But what about the way I see the word?]

((Well the same could be said for the girl on Big brother - she didn't mean anything nasty when she called the black girl a nigger, it was supposed to show a certain solidarity bizarrely- but as white middle class girl I don't she is in a position to make that judgement - the black girl was offended and the white girl got hooked from the show.

In the same way I don't think you are in the position to use the word Pikey. You may feel it's okay to use the word nigger for all i know - doesn't make it so though does it?))

The actual origins of the term are irrelevant as are the origins of the N word - it doesn't really matter where it came from - it only matters what it means to people now. [If that's true, what about what it means to me?]


((What it means to you in private is fine - but unfortunately if that meaning doesn't coincide with the actual meaning - the common meaning- then expect to be chinned by a Pikey at some point in the future - i'd love to be there when it happens.))

...all it would have taken was a simple "sorry I f**ked up/didn't know and won't use it again" rather than the stance of 'well everyone I know says...' - which lets face it, is no endorsement when you're the one to come out with (what on the face of it) looks like a racist comment. [I thought you said the meaning of a word is a question of what people here and now take it to mean. Are you now saying the view of everyone I know is irrelevant?]

((bare in mind here that your friends are the friend with someone who has made a racist comment of a public forum. I'm saying that the people you know are unfortunately misinformed. maybe they are insular people who are not worldly wise- friends of yours might be idiots? You're hardly a ringing endorsement for them. I'm not the only one to pick up on your racial faux pas - I wasn't even the first on this site- ITV bosses also concur with this line of thought enough to make Marco Pierre White make an apology when he used the word Pikey on tv - if you come of of your insular world you may find that the common accepted usage is in line with my argument))

Everyone I know, knows it's wrong to use it but I accept that as it's a relatively new word this might not be universal. [In citing everyone you know you're using an argument you've just said I can't us.]

((That's because I wasn't the one to come out with an ignorant comment in the first place. Me and my friends are obviously more clued up about certain things than you and yours))


Oh, and I think there was something about not looking to the Wiki for guidance. Well (a) why not, and (b) should I look to this site instead? Why?

((A. Wikipedia is self censored - anyone can edit it with any amount of crap they like. B. You shouldn't look on this site for facts, it's a community website, i would have thought that was obvious - BUT - if you intend to throw around racist or abusive language on this website expect people to respond by trying to educate you))

As you are clearly unmoved by anything anyone has said and intend to standby your racist comment, without any amount of contrition, therefore I will not be adding anything else to this pointless exercise. I would however ask Nick to moderate any racist or abusive comments in the future. Good luck to you Hugh I feel I have a much clearer picture of the man behind the moniker now, and that is the last I will say on the matter...

Hugh said...

Further responses to responses. My additions now in double square brackets. Again, the Anon who begins 'Oh dear' huffs and puffs but succeeds only in that. Here's why:



Oh dear -

..I have spent some time with several traveller families and regardless of what is says on wikipedia, they see the word as a derogatory term that the mainstream uses to describe them and people who have traveller blood who are part of the diaspora from eastern europe [Accepted. But what about the way I see the word?]

((Well the same could be said for the girl on Big brother - she didn't mean anything nasty when she called the black girl a nigger, it was supposed to show a certain solidarity bizarrely- but as white middle class girl I don't she is in a position to make that judgement - the black girl was offended and the white girl got hooked from the show.

In the same way I don't think you are in the position to use the word Pikey. [[By the 'same way' you seem to be saying one can't use a word if it could offend anyone. What has that got to do with whether the word is racist?]]


You may feel it's okay to use the word nigger for all i know - doesn't make it so though does it?)) [[Rhetorical questions look great until you realise they're a poor substitute for having a point to make.]]

The actual origins of the term are irrelevant as are the origins of the N word - it doesn't really matter where it came from - it only matters what it means to people now. [If that's true, what about what it means to me?]


((What it means to you in private is fine - but unfortunately if that meaning doesn't coincide with the actual meaning - the common meaning- then expect to be chinned by a Pikey at some point in the future - i'd love to be there when it happens.)) [[Desperate! Private, actual and common meaning all in one sentence! You're begging the question again.]]

...all it would have taken was a simple "sorry I f**ked up/didn't know and won't use it again" rather than the stance of 'well everyone I know says...' - which lets face it, is no endorsement when you're the one to come out with (what on the face of it) looks like a racist comment. [I thought you said the meaning of a word is a question of what people here and now take it to mean. Are you now saying the view of everyone I know is irrelevant?]

((bare in mind here that your friends are the friend with someone who has made a racist comment of a public forum. [[Begging the question again. We're trying to establish whethe the word is racist. Try to keep up.]]

I'm saying that the people you know are unfortunately misinformed. [[Prove it. Otherwise the question is begged.]]

maybe they are insular people who are not worldly wise- friends of yours might be idiots? [[Straight back atcha. Who's winning?]]


You're hardly a ringing endorsement for them. [[Why not?]]

I'm not the only one to pick up on your racial faux pas - I wasn't even the first on this site- ITV bosses also concur with this line of thought enough to make Marco Pierre White make an apology when he used the word Pikey on tv - if you come of of your insular world you may find that the common accepted usage is in line with my argument)) [[Excuse me for not watching television, let alone ITV. Are you saying the ITV bosses were right and Pierre White wrong? Where's the argument?]]

Everyone I know, knows it's wrong to use it but I accept that as it's a relatively new word this might not be universal. [In citing everyone you know you're using an argument you've just said I can't us.]

((That's because I wasn't the one to come out with an ignorant comment in the first place. Me and my friends are obviously more clued up about certain things than you and yours)) [[You fail to grasp the point.]]


Oh, and I think there was something about not looking to the Wiki for guidance. Well (a) why not, and (b) should I look to this site instead? Why?

((A. Wikipedia is self censored - anyone can edit it with any amount of crap they like. [[Unlike here?]]


B. You shouldn't look on this site for facts, it's a community website, i would have thought that was obvious - BUT - if you intend to throw around racist or abusive language on this website expect people to respond by trying to educate you)) [[By 'educate' you imply you're right. Which begs the question yet again.]]

As you are clearly unmoved by anything anyone has said and intend to standby your racist comment, without any amount of contrition, therefore I will not be adding anything else to this pointless exercise. I would however ask Nick to moderate any racist or abusive comments in the future. Good luck to you Hugh I feel I have a much clearer picture of the man behind the moniker now, and that is the last I will say on the matter...

[[Leave the logic to me. I'll leave the TV to you.]]

Torres said...

Jesus! what a thread! Hugh's been a naughty boy and called someone a Pikey? I don't think either of you can prove or disprove whether it's a racist word here, but I did know was used towards gypsies in a derogatory way.

Hugh said...

Torres, more amusing I thought was the TV worker's inability to string a coherent thought together with contradicting him/herself. Perhaps working in the media makes people think in catchphrases too.

Anonymous said...

Bloody hell, you don't mind upsetting people do you? Brockley is full of meeja types isn't it? To be honest I only skimmed the thread. Some of it made more sense than other bits. Is the word racist or not?

Hugh said...

I don't mind upsetting self-righteous people who are a bit thick, no.

Torres said...

Mmm. I've read it now. I'm reluctant to fully endorse you on that because some of it made some sense. I think a lot gets lost in the way these threads work- on both sides. I probably wouldn't use the word personally, but I have no firm evidence either way. I would also say that everyone can make a mistake too, or say a line without thinking. It doesn't mean that you're a racist.

Hugh said...

I use 'pikey' all the time to refer to trailer trash. Is that racist on the basis most such trash are white? Forgive the honesty but marvel at the clarity of thought.

Graeme said...

I keep misreading the Recent Comments subject title as 'Increased Security at Mr Lawrence', and wonder if the wine-bar owner has taken delivery of a few cases of 1967 Petrus.

Torres said...

I don't know. I thought Pikey meant 'traveller/gypsy as in the Guy Richie movie 'Snatch'....

Anonymous said...

It does, Hugh's a racist and proud...

Hugh said...

More assertion without argument. Were you this laughable at school?

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
andy pandy pudding & pie said...

Im with Hugh on this one, i think its incredible dumb to go around acusing people of being racist on the basis of one word which obviously has many different meanings.

I never use the word Pikey, but I understood it to refer to trailer trash just like Hugh said. Never heard of the traveller background.

And to be honest, I still think of it refering to trailer trash as the old meaning has quite clearly become virtually defunct in modern times. And for that reason, If i wanted to use it to describe what i think it means then i would.

For all those being incredibly self-righteous, who are probably in their 20's and at uni being 'idealistic', grow up and come back when you want to say something constructive.

Now lets go back to talking about the horrible coffee in moonbrows....

Anonymous said...

Excellent - APPP agrees with Hugh. That could be the most damning piece of evidence in the whole thread. Your thoughts on race are well known Andy so no need to go over old ground there.

Hugh said...

The thing about 'proving it' or instead 'begging the question' is that that's how debates are won and lost.

Of course, you need to know what it is to beg a question.

Get educated, Anon.

andy pandy pudding & pie said...

Really, and whats my opinion on race?

And why are you always a anon? Ah, thats right. it makes it look like its more than one person posting a comment. Very 'righteous' of you. You must really believe in what you are saying.

Thrown your dummy out the pram have you? bless.

Anonymous said...
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Hugh said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

....now if the word 'chav' was used instead would this argument have erupted?

Anonymous said...

"Psycho Killer
Qu'est-ce que c'est
fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa far better
Run run run run run run run away "

Torres said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Monkeyboy said...

I expect you could also whip Nelson Mandela's ass too - he's a a lawyer by training and deserves a beating I'm sure.

I though you ALMOST had Hugh on the back foot - kind of blown your credibility a tad.

Anonymous said...

Please! The trash talk is laughable. Stop it.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Monkeyboy said...

What Nelson Mandela? I know he supports a rubbish rugby team and has a disturbing taste in silk shirts but that's no reason to beat up a political icon.

Or is it 'cos he's black? Hmmmm.....

Anonymous said...

Still no word from the big man Hugh though....

Monkeyboy said...

Mate....crack open another can of Stella, tuck into last nights chineese and nip out and beat up a tramp or something.

Hugh said some things that he kind of retracted. You seemed to dislike the fact that he was better at arguing than you, and now you want to beat him up?

You've SO lost...

and yes I'm sure you can whip me as well but seeing that we will never meet that's kind of irrelevant. Bet your FUMMING!

andy pandy pudding & pie said...

monkeyboy stop being such a racist! criky, i mean, i cant believe people can get away with saying things like that....!

btw, his memoirs make an interesting read.....

MB said...

andy...never compare me to you.

any one that can claim that

'it's ilegal to be racist if you're black'

is clearly an idiot.

andy pandy pudding & pie said...

Monkeyboy, but ive never said that though? Cant you read?

idiots cant read too!

andy pnady pudding & pie said...

and btw, i was being ironic.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
andy pandy pudding & pie said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
JPM said...

Don't reach for the old racist moniker with the use of a single word. (Someone tried this on with the Mayor a while back. And Lee Jasper is a Jew.)

Is Hugh racist?

He certainly doesn't empathise when he uses a word that is designed to cause pain and feelings of inferiority. However, my experience of racists is that don't always use the language associated with them. (The real out and outs keep their opinons hidden, and don't promote their feelings with words. I remember standing on the doorstep of a girfriend and her father whispering to her - about me. 'Oh, dad,' she said, 'I can't believe it's you saying that.' (He was a racist.)

The question is: is this word offensive. And if the answer is Yes, then this leads to questions that seem to have been answered.

So why is Hugh digging in? Is he a racist that knows it or a racist that doesn't?

To label a person racist based on the use of one word - and his defence of it - is suspect. Hugh feels himself not to be, whilst using one of the words in the bigot's handbook. It only goes to show how complex the whole thing is... for Hugh.

Time to turn the page.

Anonymous said...
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Brockley Nick said...

This is overstepping the mark. Please be nice.

Anonymous said...

Is the use of the word Pikey overstepping the mark Nick?

andy pandy pudding & pie said...

I think nick was talking about the way we are attacking each other. Not very community orientated!

If you and hugh both comes to brockley drinks, i'll buy you both a pint, we are all nieghbours right? :o)

Anonymous said...

I'd like to know if happy if Nick to legitimise the use of the word Pikey on this website. I have it down as racist and abusive language. Nick I think it's time you stepped in here this is unacceptable.

Hugh said...
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Hugh said...

Happy to apologise for my ignorance, Nick.

Brockley Nick said...

No, I don't think Pikey is an appropriate word.

However, the response generated by the initial use (which was clearly used without Hugh being aware of its racist connotations) was, I thought, very helpful in explaining why the word was not appropriate, so I let the early posts stand. Certainly, no-one reading the debate could think that the word has been "legitimised" by the argument.

I agree with those who suggested Hugh should simply have apologised for his ignorance and we could have moved on.

However, threats of any sort are totally inappropriate and I had to delete a number of posts . For the record, I didn't start this blog up for the pleasure of moderating arguments on a Sunday evening between grown men about issues completely unrelated to the article, so please can we just drop the subject. The word should not have been used, nor should the abusive language that followed. It does neither side any credit.

I don't like blocking anonymous comments, because I like the freedom they give, but people need to behave responsibly.

Thanks.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Excellent!- Thanks Hugh but it seems my argument made more sense than yours after all. I was never in doubt despite all you hot air. Perhaps you didn't read my posts slowly enough -are you sure you're a lawyer?- I thought your responses were a little rushed.
The next time you want to argue about using racist comments you might think twice. Now run along like a good little boy and get back to that conveyancing.

JPM said...

I won't stand by and see an individual threatened for the use of a word in ignorance on this site.

Whilst I won't go as far as Voltaire in defending Hugh 'to the death' (actually it was a woman Evelyn Hall who said this but never mind) any physical threat against Hugh (or anyone else for that matter) is a threat against liberty. Threaten one, you threaten all.

That said, and I've said it before Religion, Race, and Football - forget it.

Tom said...

Silly people; it is only the internet. Childish angry men venting frustrations at one another with self-righteous indignity.

It happens on all websites but for a community one it is particularly laughable.

For all those that try: you can't win an argument on the internet.

*ducks*

Anonymous said...

I think i just have...

Hugh said...
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Anonymous said...

Hey Hugh..............





- I'm 16.!!!!


Isn't the internet great!!!!!

Anonymous said...
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Susan said...

get a grip people! hugh used the word the way many people use it and wiped the floor with this stupid anon person afterwards. i don't agree with hugh using the word but he totally bossed allcomers from that point on. internet boards are for debate and we should be gratefull when posters are good at debating. it took me half an hour to go through this thread but i can honestly say this anon person doesn't know when s/he's losing.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for constructive criticism Susan but do you mind if I ignore it completely and carrying on revising for my GCSE's.

andy pandy pudding & pie said...

I had no idea it wasn't voltaire who said that. I would actually defend to death the right for an individuals freedom, after all, without individual thought how are we supposed to innovate?

Anonymous said...

Really? even someone you don't know?

Anonymous said...
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Brockley Nick said...

Thanks, let's leave it there please.

JPM said...

APP&P...it's true. It was written by early feminist writer Hall (under a nom de plume) about Voltaire. (He was pretty racy with a few things he had to say too.)
If I may steal you away from Nick for a while see my little dissertation... http://thebigretort.blogspot.com/2007/11/free-speech-costs-plenty.html

Bea said...

And just to go back to the main topic - "Increased Security At Stephen Lawrence Centre" - drove past it on Sunday and thought what is that glass building doing there! Looks like part of The City has been transplanted next to a railway line. Then the penny dropped - ah it's the Stephen Lawrence Centre!

Those large glass panes must be oh so tempting for kids with nothing to do and bricks readily available. Unless they have 24 hour security with patrols not sure they can prevent it from happening again.

Brockley Nick said...

They could replace the existing panes with shatter-proof glass, that can't be broken by someone chucking a brick at it.

The existing glass is decorated by Chris Ophili and he may not be willing or able to repeat his designs in the new glass, but if they are worth saving (and he's a good artist) then I'm sure they could be hung somewhere else, in Stephen's honour.

Problem solved.

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