Crofton Park: Major new development planned opposite the Brockley Jack

Lewisham Council has received a planning application for:

"The alteration, extension and reconfiguration of the existing commercial units and flats above at 437-439 Brockley Road SE4, together with the construction of a part three/part four storey building incorporating balconies and terraces comprising,1 office unit, 2 artist studios, 4, one-bedroom, 4 two-bedroom and 1 three-bedroom self-contained flats, together with the provision of 12 bicycle spaces, bin store and associated landscaping."

Though the plans are yet to be published, they are rumoured to be fairly ambitious and visually striking. The architects, MKA, at least have some form in producing interesting work.

We hope to be able to publish more detail about the plans soon.

Thanks to Patrick.

51 comments:

Headhunter said...

Aren't there houses there at the moment? Are they demolishing those? my dentist is just there! I'll have to look at the plans....

lb said...

It's OK, you'll be getting an artists' studio in return - perhaps they can paint you some new teeth?

On a more serious note, any risk-taking architecture would be welcome round here, assuming it stands up to the Brockley Society's wrath.

Headhunter said...

It's outside the conservation area so I doubt the Broc Soc would bat an eyelid.

Doesn't really bother me, but I just wonder what's happening to the houses along there. Last I saw they looked inhabited.

The Cat Man said...

Hmm. I wonder if the flats will be advertised as 'crofton park' or 'brockley'?

I think we are going to see even more distinct areas emerging.

Tressilliana said...

I haven't checked on a map but surely this must be referring to the little parade of shops where there is a Chinese takeaway and the Babur takeaway. Haven't used those shops for years - there used to be a chemist's, don't know if it's still there, given how well the other chemist is doing.

Chris said...

By the sounds of it, it will be where the Chinese, Chemist and the old DIY shop is. It's a fairly big plot of land and stretches back a bit. That bit of Crofton park is a mess so this looks to be very positive. I wonder if they will keep the chemist and chinese?

I think this was once the site for the rumoured Tesco.

patrick1971 said...

My understanding is that it's going to be on the south-east corner of the junction of Brockley & Sevenoaks Roads, but I could be wrong.

Anonymous said...

interesting very interesting.

went to ladywell the other day (I have no reason to pass it normally) and thought it very sweet. bit like Fulham a few years ago.

Headhunter said...

Fulham? Probably a little more than a few years ago!

Anonymous said...

Sorry to be off topic, but has anyone had any notice of the traffic lights on Lewisham Way, between Tresillian and Tyrwhitt, being removed? This is the most direct route to the train at St Johns and now pedestrians coming down from Tresillian are forced to walk out of their way either east or west to cross a very busy road.
When you're rushing for the train (I am sure I'm not the only one to have to rush?) it may be tempting to car surf across Lewisham Way...An accident waiting to happen?

tyrwhitt michael said...

Looks like the corner of Brockley and Sevenoaks to me and to google maps. Not my end of town so I can't remember what the shops there are there.

Whilst we are on planning, for those interested in the W P Stone application on Tyrwhitt Road there has been 7 responses, 5 against and 2 in favour so far.

For some reason I'm coming down on the "in favour" side if only so there is a nice new building opposite the refurbished Talbot.

Whoops I crossed about three threads there.....

barryls said...

The site used to be a timber yard/hardware store, which closed down a year or so ago.

Either way it looks like a very positive development for the area.

Anonymous said...

Ladywell is lovely. Given a choice of Ladywell or Brockley station I'll always walk to/from Ladywell - then it feels like I don't live in a crime scene.

Anonymous said...

costs you more though doesn't it? Zone 3?

Anonymous said...

In theory it would, in practise it doesn't. ;-)

Anonymous said...

OMG don't let The Cat see you suggesting fare dodging. He's already convinced that the foreigners are turning us good ENGLISH folk into a barbarian free loading degenerates.

Or perhaps I'm being unfair?

The Cat Man said...

OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!!

Zone 3? Pewah!

Pawel said...

Yes, it does look like the corner of Brockley Road and Sevenoaks Road, which is my street. The Chinese take-away and the Chemist are still there. The DIY shop has been closed ever since I moved there (almost two years now) and looks more and more derelict, so I'm very looking forward to this development. I hope it includes the shops on the other side of Sevenoaks Road, where Babur take-away and the tire shop are. That would be just brilliant!

mljay said...

Things are on the up and up around crofton park. First the Brockley Jack makeover, then the budgens, and now the refurb of another derelict corner. Plus a nice library and great local pub in the Jam Circus. Not to mention great winebar.

Now only need to wait to 2015 or so for another 2 trains per hour!

lb said...

The 1879 map of the area shows large brick fields where the bottom (i.e. Pear Tree House) end of Wickham Road is now.

There were others, and a big clay pit, kilns, tramways, etc exactly where Fossil Road and Shell Road are now.

lb said...

Damn, meant to post that on the thread about Victorian slave-labour.

faredodging is theft said...

anonymous re ladywell transport,

just wondering why you don't see the irony in avoiding brockley as you (wrongly) perceive it to be a "crime scene" and your statement that in theory ladywell costs more (zone 3) but in practice (note the "C") it doesn't.

if you are fare dodging, you do realise that you are actually a thief who steals from everyone else who pays the right fare?

Headhunter said...

Seriously though, does anyone actually pay for rail tickets late in the evening when the gates at Charing X and London Bridge are open? I blame the rail companies anyway, if they weren't so money grabbing and had allowed us to use our pay as you go Oyster cards years ago rather than chasing profit, people may actually pay

tj said...

Um yes - I do

Anonymous said...

Ooooohhh... The Cat Man will have you in his sights. He's on the neighbourhood watch don't you know?

Headhunter said...

Well I don't and I won't until they allow me to use my PAYG Oyster. They never check that late anyway. I don't even think they could - the trains are usually filled to bursting point as everyone tries to get home before the last train. They would find it pretty much impossible to move along the train.

tj said...

Yeah I think it is a safety thing - leaving the barriers open - as everyone rushes for the last trains of the night.

And the only reason I pay is that I've already got a return 8-) lol

Agree with you about the PAYG Oyster - we are all forced into it by the exMayor penalising us if we don't have one - then can't use it on the trains.

I hear Bea is a consumate fare dodger though - she regularly rides the train for free to far flung destinations such as South Norwood....and just comes straight back to Brockley after getting there.

The Cat Man said...

I always pay my train fares. Always.

I dont see it as being that expensive really. Although nowadays that they are private companies and they employ 'hit men' (the revenue protection squad) who look like policemen i'm more sympathetic to the fare dodgers.

If it was nationalised (like it should be) then yes, I would see the fare dodgers in a very poor light.

Headhunter said...

It's not horrifically expensive, but a return to central London is, what, £3+ or something these days? But an Oyster PAYG journey from zone 1 to 2 can be as little as £2-ish, from what I remember paying at New Cross when the E London line was in operation. Seemed to vary at times though. Blatant profiteering by the rail companies by refusing to go along with the Oyster system. Of course it doesn't affect you if you geta monthly rail pass.

The Cat Man said...

I only pay for the odd fayre at weekends now that I cycle to work :o)

I still save overall by not having to pay for a weekly/monthly ticket.

Anonymous said...

I cannot believe how people are so happy to come out on a blog to say they are fare dodgers and happy to be. Say that out loud in a ticket hall or on a train with a lot of fare paying customers and see that goes down.

You are a thief, plain and simple. The fact that you cannot use a PAYG oyster, does not mean you should not pay your fare and make all other fare paying travellers pick up the tab. I suppose you use that excuse to help you sleep at night.

Where is your integrity?

tj said...

BTW my comment re Bea was teasing her about her propensity for getting on the wrong train - before some train fare hound comes sniffing around...

Anonymous said...

Supporting petty theft for short term gain is why this country is getting so messed up. It's no fluke that countries with honest citizens who abhor petty theft have the highest volumes of exports and most stable standards of living.

Let's get more immigrants now to introduce some moral fibre back into the country and help people remove their head from their rear end.

Headhunter said...

Sorry to offend but until such a time as UK rail companies actually start to provide a decent service I don't feel guilty.

The Cat Man said...

I somewhat agree with HH on this. If the railways were nationalised then I would agree with the Anon, but they are not.

The rail companies make tons of money - from us, the captive audience each year. If they wanted to invest for the long run then they could. Its not a question of money im afraid, but more instigasting the property incentives. Companies are almost always short-termist due to the need to return profit back to the shareholders.

Only way to provide a better service is to re-nationalise in my opinion.

Bea said...

Thanks TJ for dumping me in it - but Monkeyboy and I are both now proud visitors of Norwood.

I might add that there was a ticket inspector on that train but he was so busy chucking me out of first class (where there were some spare seats) he failed to notice I was on the wrong train.

Don't you just hate it when platform changes are made without announcements! At least it wasn't deepest Kent that time. I’ve also been known to make a de tour via Sevenoaks to Brockley!

Headhunter said...

Exactly Cat Man. Anyway, I pay about 90% of the time, it's just on that pretty rare occasion that I'm heading home late/on the last train and the gates are open that I don't bother. I like to think if it as a refund for the cr@ppy service I receive most other days.

jon s said...

Renationalising is not the answer, smart and selective sourcing is. The key is the government needs to retain control of ticketing and timetabling, able to vary them in response to demand and public sector service provision.

In reality, the same operational people do the work, but when you nationalise you lack the command and control framework to create efficiencies.

Btw, I'm against fair evasion whatever sophistry people use to justify it, but this is not the blog to go into why and there is no place for name calling.

Anonymous said...

I completely agreee with the other anon.

Don't you o so clever fare dodgers realise you are thieves? and you are not stealing from the train co (as if that were any justification) but from everyone else, your fellow passengers, US on the train. you should be ashamed of yourselves. do you steal from old ladies in other respects too? maybe a little insurance fraud here and there, on the grounds the co is big, provides poor service and your premium is too high.

not impressed.

The Cat Man said...

"In reality, the same operational people do the work, but when you nationalise you lack the command and control framework to create efficiencies."

Eh? Have you not heard of a natural monopoly? The idea is that there are hugh fixed costs (such as train tracks, rolling stock) that it would be prohibited for a competitive market to operate and make money in the short term. Therefore the choice is: few large private companies or large nationalised companies.

A large company will extract money from the service for profit for private investors, a large nationalised company will re-invest more for the long term to achieve greater efficiences to lower running costs.

However, you can ignore what I say now as actually the evidence speaks for itself. The old British rail was far more successful than the private companies at running the network. Count the number of fatalities under each system and its plain to see.

Only recently with the partial re-nationalisation (under Network Rail) has it got better. But as people are pointing out, its still not brilliant and part of the network is still in private hands.

I think the evidence speaks for itself.

Danja said...

Btw, I'm against fair evasion

Wrong thread?

lb said...

I live very near Hilly Fields, and will therefore be practising a little fair evasion this weekend.

Headhunter said...

Judging by what they post in stations most rail companies claim to provide a reliable service 80-90% of the time. I pay 80-90% of the time. the other 10% is compensation.

Paddyom said...

You an me both LB ;-) reckon there will be some right skanks around this weekend stuffing their gobs with candy floss and then puking it on our doorsteps.

Headhunter said...

lb - I thought you said you lived on Manor Ave? I only remember because I live there too. Or perhaps I've mixed you up with someone else here...

lb said...

Nah, Tyrwhitt Road, or at least it was last time I looked.

jon s said...

Erm, Andy how do you embed operational controls in a government (or many business) organisations? btw, reactive maintenance costs have skyrocketed at Notwork Rail since taken in house.

You treat a retained department like a company and you will have the works councils and / or unions on your back very quickly.

Of course it's a monopoly and a public service. That is why you pay a fixed price to suppliers for service provision and embedd in the contract the terms and conditions. At the top level you hire a service integrator who manages strategic performance. Underneath them you hire multiple companies to undertake major projects, reactive maintenance, incident resolution, etc.

In essence you create a market between service providers competing for quality and efficiency as opposed to a bloated bureaucracy with no internal controls.

The error was outsourcing the revenue generation and lack of audit and control of suppliers, not outsourcing.

patrick1971 said...

The plans are now up on the council website. Search for DC/08/69180/X. It's certainly a striking building. Quite out of character for the area, not that that's necessarily a bad thing. Whoever the applicant got to take the photos has done a "good" job; they make that corner look like some sort of Dickensian slum of alleyways and seedy back gardens! On the whole I'm in favour of the proposed development, judging from the documentation on the site.

Headhunter said...

Flamin' 'eck! It looks like an ocean going liner bolted onto a 1950s semi!

The Cat Man said...

OMG, it looks terrible.

Very little brickwork, and its all white and grey rendered!!!

Can you imagine how its going to look in a couple of years when the white becomes, kind of dirty?

I have no idea whats there already, so maybe this is better then the exisiting premise. But It looks really rather scary.....

Headhunter said...

There's some photos of what's already there. It actually seems quite a small site, but the artists renditions make it look massive.

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