St John's 20mph zone consultation

St John's residents have been asked their views about the 20mph traffic-calming zone covering their area. The consultation document makes some impressive claims for the traffic speed reductions the zone's achieved since its introduction in 2002:

Albyn Road - 29mph > 19mph
Ashmead Road - 27mph > 15mph
Cranbrook Road - 31mph > 19mph
St Johns Vale 30mph > 21mph

The document explains further changes are likely:

"Lewisham Council is reviewing the 20mph speed zone, which was introduced to your area in 2002. The reduced speed limit is displayed on sign posts at all the entry points to the zone and traffic speeds are restricted by features such as road humps, speed cushions and speed tables.

"We intend to carry out some minor modifications to the zone and welcome your views on any local concerns you may have. The work carried out will be dependant on priorities identified through this consultation, consultation with the emergency services and financial constraints.

The deadline for feedback is December 19th.

30 comments:

Anonymous said...

long before a traffic calming measure, we need:

1. lights around St Johns station - it is desperately dangerous.

2. the trendy designer bonkers pedestrian crossing of lights at lewisham way/"st johns station road" to be replaced by a normal one. right now, it is extremely hard for both pedestrians and cars to know which signal pertains to them and which to the other party. the nightmare combination is obviosuly motorist thinks he/she has green, as does pedestrian....

Anonymous said...

There's nothing worse than driving into Brockley and having someone dawdle in front of you - bring it back up to 30/40 please - we're not all here to take in the scenery.

fabhat said...

anon 17.41 : i love the lights by st johns - they are so responsive to pedestrians - and so far I haven't felt confused by them.
St john's station is dark - but there are generally lots of people getting off every train so it doesn't feel threatening in that way to me - although I'd like to be able to see the slippery wet leaves/dog shit more clearly so I can avoid it.

State the obvious said...

I've used the lights both as a pedestrian and a driver/rider without any confusion.

Big lights at the top CARS
Smaller lights lower down PEDESTRIANS

Headhunter said...

I agree re the lights by St Johns. Yes there are lots of people getting off, but if yuo're arriving at the station to catch a train there's not often a lot of people arriving with you. Also it's so dark that you can often barely see the edge of curbs or where there's mud and slippy patches. But then I barely use St John's station anyway...

Re 20mph speed limits, whilst I welcome measures to decrease traffic speed along residential roads like speed humps and narrowed sections of road (such as along Manor Ave), sticking up a sign or painting the road with a big "20" makes no difference.

I cycle through Telegraph Hill and along Pepys Road where there is already a 20 zone in place and I can categorically say that it has made no difference to traffic speed. I cycle at about 20mph and I still get passed by motor traffic, obviously travelling faster than 20.

If there aren't going to be resources allocated to regulating the new limit, ie extra police or whatever, people are just going to carry on as before. On many roads drivers barely bother with 30 limits, let alone 20!

Bit of a waste of white paint and sign posts really. Canthe funding be directed to more street trees instead?

nobbly brick said...

Living on a road that has 'speed cushions' I can categorically say they are useless, in fact, I'd go as far as to say that they are dangerous (can't back that up with statistics - perhaps the council can). It's perfectly normal for drivers to swerve into the centre of the road to try and avoid the bumps.

Larger vehicles, such as buses and Bin lorries are particularly guilty of exceeding the speed limit - ironically my local councillor claimed that he regularly asked senior management at the depot to remind the drivers that there are speed limits that apply to them, but to little noticeable effect.

If the council can't set an example and exercise control over their own drivers how can they expect other people to comply?

brockley mutha said...

I agree that speed bumps don't make drivers drive at 20mph, but they do stop them from driving at 50mph.

I live on a road on which speeding cars regularly lost control and smashed into parked cars. Post speed bumps - those accidents are a thing of the past.

Anonymous said...

Have just had the pleasure of driving to Brockley from the Old Kent Road, all the way behind a van doing 15 miles an hour.

I mean what is the point?

SLOW drivers getting off London's roads would speed it up more than any congestion charge.

toshy said...

I am being fabulously stupid here but I don't really understand what they're proposing... they're not threatening to scrap the speed reductions are they?

I cycle to work and go back via Albyn Road/St Johns Vale/Cliff Terrace, or by Cranbrook Road/St Johns Vale (not so much via Cranbrook Road since I very nearly got hit by a guy speeding in the WRONG LANE while I was turning right). Whichever way you go there are blind spots, plus it's uphill, and trying to edge out from Albyn Road to take a right up St Johns Vale when the visibility is awful is pretty nerve-wracking when the road is clear, let alone when there's someone shooting down the hill at high speed.

Love the superfast ped crossing lights on Lewisham Way, btw.

toshy said...

oops, I'm mixing up Cranbrook and Brookmill. The rest of it still stands

Anonymous said...

I think the option of removing the 20 limit and sticking with a standard residential limit should be looked at. Perhaps even raising to 40.

Anonymous said...

re the new crossing system on lewisham way, there's no reason it could not be responsive as well as clear.

of course WE know how the stupid set up works and WE aren't confused by it but please have alittle imagination. It only takes one car that isn't familiar with it to speed along, see a melange of green and red signals and make the assumption green is for it.

there is a reason this mixed signal system is not in common use in the UK you know.... and it's not that lewisham planners are so desperately clever and ahead of the curve...

Anonymous said...

Fabhat, the fact that you may take the train to and from work at commuter times when there are lots of people around, is somewhat irrelevant. stations for public usage (as oppposed to the one on the land of a friend of mine which is for his usage only, through ancient decree, weirdly) should be safe.

or else we have (msotly) women and vulnerable passengers paying tax for a public transport system they cannot use and taking taxis home.

Anonymous said...

If they don't think its safe, that thought in itself could be their own fault...

fabhat said...

anon 11.12 -please don't make assumptions about me...I am female - and often getting on or off the train on my own with heavy bags, so security /safety does concern me.

I take the train to and from St Johns at irregular and very different times of day/night - in fact very rarely at commuter times - which is why I felt able to comment about how busy it is when you get off, whatever time train I've got - even ones arriving after 12am.

But that doesn't change the fact that it is not well lit enough for safety for arriving for trains, or to avoid treading on something unpleasant. But if someone was worried about safety when getting a train to St Johns after dark, I, personally, always feel safe getting off as there are always people getting off at the same time - whatever time train I've got.

Clear enough?

Anonymous said...

If you feel unsafe getting off a train in leafy St Johns then a few months in a Soviet gulag should sort you out...

Anonymous said...

the car park is pitch black. end of story. thanks

Anonymous said...

wooooooo!

Sounds incredibly scary

Anonymous said...

yes, we all pay an inordinate amount of our income away as tax and, you know what.... in return, I expect a certain level of public services. As applied to public transport in the borough, this means it needs to be made safe for us all.

not much to ask from Lewisham's/tfl's vast various budgets - a few lights in a car park!

Anonymous said...

With unemployment rising could not the council put some of those people to good use by employing them to walk in front of vehicles with a red flag?

Anonymous said...

As a pedestrian I would have thought introduce schemes that frustrate drivers is more likely to make them want to want to drive to fast in other places?

Are there any figures showing the number of accidents before 20mph was introduced? If there have been no or insigificant accidents then is there a need for humps etc?

Currently there's no easy way the restrictions can be enforced so what difference will it make to the 'idiots'?

Why not build into the design of the roads bends, narrow stretches, trees etc to restrict speed by 'natural' causes rather than plaster the area with another 4 road signs at each junction?

Any plans to restrict cyclists on pavements exceeding 4 miles an hour?

Headhunter said...

Restrict cyclists to 4mph on the pavement? But cyclists aren't supposed to go on the pavement, so saying they have to stay at below 4mph, is like saying burglary is OK as long as you knock before breaking the door down

BrockleyBiker said...

Shardloes Road being only a 20mph is ridiculous.

And square speed bumps are better for motorcyclists. The ones going right across the road are a pain in the arse. Fine have a 20mph zone in a residential area, but it would be nice to actually go at that speed not the 5mph you have to with the big bumps.

Anonymous said...

There's always a mung-bean eater who decides to moderate it themselves down to 15 as well...

welcome to 2008 said...

It's a speed limit, not a speed target. It's not a bad idea to drive under the limit if necessary.

Anonymous said...

Although it is an extremely bad idea to drive under the limit without due cause - reference, the Highway Code. Nothing worse than crawling around Brockley up some hippie's arsehole just because they don't want to get a move-on.

osh said...

Is there any evidence that hippies drive slowly? If we're going down the cliche route then surely it's more accurate to say they drive recklessly, in dangerous, polluting old banger camper vans, over the limit on drugs. I've never been stuck behind a slow hippy.

max said...

If they don't drive slowly then they're not real hippies.
Maybe you're mistaking them for those Bohos that Wikipedia says Brockley's full of.

4x4 said...

I am fed up of cyclists and speed humps getting in the way of the good honest motorist who just wants to get around as quickly as poss. No wonder I decided to buy a 4x4- those humps make no difference to me now. Also why are there so few parking spaces near the doors of supermarket?
Nine times out of ten I have to park in the handicapped spaces as they seem to take all of the spaces for normal people. I think they do it to be funny-i for one am not laughing!

nobbly brick said...

Bit predictable now 4x4, you need to raise the bar a bit.

Try Macramé

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