Late night Brockley

The new management of the Aquarium - widely regarded as having improved the place since they took over - have applied for a late night alcohol license.

This doesn't come as a huge surprise as Aquarium seems to be pitching itself as more of a bar that does food than a restaurant that you can get a drink at. The front room has largely been cleared of tables and the other night we passed by as one of the salsa classes they have recently introduced was going on. The management is clearly working hard to make the place (which struggled as Ecosium) a success.

This part of Brockley desperately needs a good alternative to the Barge and we don't forsee a license extension causing an epidemic of anti-social actitivity, so BC would be in favour.

Applied for sale of alcohol on the premises Monday – Sunday 10:00 – 03:00, Provision of Regulated Entertainment and Provision of Entertainment Facilities Monday – Sunday 09.30 – 03.30.

Current Licence

Alcohol – Monday – Sunday 10.00 – 23.00
Regulated Entertainment – Monday – Sunday 09.30 – 23.30


What do you think?

57 comments:

drakefell debaser said...

Nice, If they can also have sky sports to show the footie then that will extra good.

A shame no doubt for the person upstairs who complained a while back about noise though.

Headhunter said...

It would be nice to have a late night place round the corner but I feel for the people in the mews street round the corner and the flats above. However I don't suppose it would get particularly lairy, it's a pretty small, local venue

Anonymous said...

The recent poster living in the flat above who complained about the noise is going to love that XD!

b. said...

really like the place - have found the beer on offer good, the staff great and the food excellent - one thing it has been lacking (on both occassions we've been there) is clientele... even on a saturday night. so - booze till late is one (very good) thing, but with no one to drink it - that may be a problem. I may have to drink it for them.

Brockley Kate said...

Til 3am?!?! Ouch. I imagine the people who live nearby aren't going to be very happy at all! A bit excessive, no? Why not midnight?

Tressillian James said...

Yes Kate - I can't see the need to open to 3.00am - especially on weekdays. Midnight, 1.00 am at the weekend should be enough. I do feel sorry for those living above - as they would have had no knowledge of such plans when they bought their place. The guy at Aquarium wants to run a successful business, but the quality of life of the nearby residents needs to be respected.

I'm afraid, as much as I like Aquarium and what they are trying to do - I wouldn't support this.

The Cat Man said...

having a licence to operate to 3am does not mean they will automatically use the full provision.

alot of that depends on custom, if people do not go they will not open late.

Tressillian James said...

Yes Catman - but if people do go (and they must hope that they will)they willuse it.

Any objections afterwards would be a bit of a case of horses and barn doors

Anonymous said...

3am is completlely ridiculous. it's like a nightclub.

he needs to elarn to sell decent food - if he could do that it would be much easier than doing promos on bottles of wine and staying up till 3am.

who on earth does he think is going to go there at 3am? this really worries me...what next would be my fear?

Anonymous said...

I don't agree he HAS improved it at all.

the food is still weird and the staff still slow to respond and act as it they're doing you a favour.

I'd love to see someone who knows how to run a restaurant take it over.... it is a potential gold mine.

Headhunter said...

3am does seem excessive, it is after all a residential area. I can't even imagine there would be much custom after 12 or so especially on weekdays!

I doubt he's expecting this to get approved, he'll wait for this to be rejected and then try to get approval for 1 or 2 instead and keep the pressure up til the council gives in. That seems to be the way when making applications to councils. Eventually they crack. Developers do it all the time.

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

I think its perfectly acceptable for a restaurant/bar to stay open until that time.

We are living in a big cosmopolitan city not a country backwater.

Mind you I do live about a mile away and if the Talbot wanted a 3am licence it would be a different matter.

Actually no it wouldn't I would have no objection to that either.

I seem to be lapsing into twitter speak - sorry - again.

Headhunter said...

Big cosmopolitan city, certainly, but everyone needs somewhere to escape from the noise, traffic and general hurly burly and someone opening up a late night bar right near you on a previously quiet residential road isn't really conducive to this!

BrockleyBiker said...

"We are living in a big cosmopolitan city not a country backwater."

Yes but if you want late night shenanigans there is central London, or near by new Cross. We may not be some country back water but we are still a predominantly residential area.

Anonymous said...

I agree with the anon - ate here last week because i couldn't get into the toads (it was rammed). Aquarium was dead yet only a stones throw away! The food was poor, although the service had improved. The problem to me is clear - Aquarium is neither one thing or another. They have these weird tables which suggests cafe (awful tables) yet they've got them laid like it's going to be some kind of fine dining experience. It aint. Needs clear direction from new owners, and that direction should be to turn it into a moonbows style place, not somewhere with a set menu of 15 plus quid.

Anonymous said...

I would support this - I think Brockley needs some decent bars etc and if a later licence is needed to make it viable then provided there are sufficient restrictions re noise issues then I cannot see it being a problem.

Anonymous said...

I went there last week and was disappointed with the food. The service was very good though. I think a 1am licence is sufficient. Is there anywhere that serves good food at a reasonable price in brockley. I was also disappointed with babur which I felt was overpriced.

I haven't been to the new broca cafe though

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

I'll have to stop doing tongue (firmly) in cheek comments everyone takes them sooooooo seriously.

Of course 3am is too late for a residential area but I think the Barge opens till 1am or 2am on Fridays and Saturdays doesn't it?

Does that cause any problems?

I know that the music has to be curtailed at the Wickham at 11am and no one is allowed out front after then because of neighbour's complaints.

But then I ask why do such sensitive people buy a property opposite a pub or above a restaurant?

Anonymous said...

lol, good point! I wouldn't buy or rent a place near to a bar/fast food shop because the noise and rubbish would bother me.

Anonymous said...

Because the property is cheap. Due to being opposite a pub or above a restaurant.

A case of wanting to have ones organic fairtrade carrot cake and eat it.

TAmsin said...

It's when the goal-posts move after you have bought that it is tough - like a restaurant that used to close at about 10.30 suddenly getting a music licence up to 3am (or your quiet village on the Thames Estury being the site of a new airport because five is a terminal too far for the already blighted Hounslow).

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

I know about moving goalposts.

I bought in Tyrwhitt Road because it was in walking distance of a reasonable pub (this was 22 years ago). Now they've closed it!

No consideration some people.

Whoops lapsing into tongue in cheek territory again. Obviously can't an old dog new tricks.

Tressilliana said...

'I know that the music has to be curtailed at the Wickham at 11am and no one is allowed out front after then because of neighbour's complaints. '

An all night pub - glad I don't live in Wickham Road...

[sorry, could not resist]

Anonymous said...

You do know that the Wickham Arms is not on or in Wickham Road right?

Tressilliana said...

No, clearly I don't. Is it the pub on Upper Brockley Road?

I was actually making a weak joke about Michael's typo.

Richard Elliot said...

Brockley is in need of more pleasant places to have a pint so I am in favour.

Has anyone actually asked the new owners / managers when they plan to open until? Under the new 24hr licensing laws I think it is pretty common to apply for more hours than you need (because you can). I would be surprised if they were actually planning to open until 3am...

Paddyom said...

This is good news. THis part of Brockley needs a Jam Circus type establishment. The closure of Moonbows has left a void in the area, I for one have twice recently had to leave TM2 due to no available tables! I would like to try this place again if they have redecorated it as that was a bit off putting. Hopefully they remove that luminous blue light thing which looks like a fly trap. Best of luck!

Anonymous said...

I live on Harefield Road and have already been woken and kept awake twice by loud music from Aquarium at midnight. I had a letter the other day from another concerned resident who has already contacted the nuisance department of the council twice when noise from the bar became unbearable late at night. So I don't think anyone who lives nearby will be supporting this.

Headhunter said...

It's not always just the music that's the problem, it's the loud, p*ssed people bumbling out of the bar onto a residential street at all hours of the morning that I would hate. It would be fairly straightforward to issue a license til 3 or so on the proviso that music is kept below a certain level, but how do you control the noise made by patrons as they empty into the street after a few drinks too many?

Even on Manor Ave we get loud p*ssed people shouting at each other as they head home through the night. I know what it's like, I have stumbled back home wasted a few times, but I never understand the need to shout and laugh raucously at the person you're walking with as you head home at 2am....

Anonymous said...

You never struck me as the "having a laugh with a kebab on the way home" type, Headhunter

Danja said...

And you really do have a good laugh with your kebab?

Headhunter said...

I don't eat kebabs unless they are organic and free trade and way too many calories. I just drink, fall over, stagger home and if still concious make toast with artisanal unsliced organic wholemeal, with a drizzle of olive oil produced on a generations old olive grove managed by an the same Italian family since 1645.

Pete said...

You do that too Headhunter? I thought it was just me...

Hugh said...

I don't see the point of drinking locally. Far better places to drink in town, and of course one has the benefit of one's wine cellar at home.

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

Headhunter/Pete

You are all morphing into Monkey Boy by the sound of it....

Hugh

Someone with your intellect obviously doesn't require social interaction. Personally I quite enjoy it.

Hugh said...

Michael, I'm open to persuasion but on the few occasions I've been into a local pub (it was the Wickham Arms) I could smell the gents and the only others customers were old men and not the 20-something Goldsmiths babes I'd hoped would make a beeline for me and sit listening intently to my war stories all evening before insisting I come back for cocoa and a look at their Ann Summers items.

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

That's a reasonably accurate description of the Wickham although the gents don't smell so bad nowadays.....not if they have just had their weekly bath.

The majority of the barmaids would meet your approval and I believe one is actually a 20 something Goldsmiths student.

In general Golsmithians? seem to frequent New Cross although I have yet to encounter the Royal student in any of the hostelries.

Tressillian James said...

Hugh - are you talking about the Falklands war? Or the Second World War - both would put you well past the cycling age and finally out you as 'not the Hugh from before' and an old codger

Anonymous said...

Hugh may not be as good as he was, but he never was.

Gulf II, G.

Hugh said...

On Michael's word, however, I'll give the Arms another go.

Cllr Dean Walton said...

Interesting discussion here. Planning officers at Lewisham have confirmed the following for me. "Planning permission for the restaurant was granted in Oct 2001 as part of a more extensive development proposal at the rear of 199 Brockley Road. Condition 10 of the permission states that the premises shall not be open for customer business between the hours of 11.00 pm and 8.00 am
on any day of the week. "

Which means that any change to the licensed hours should need to be matched by a formal change to this planning conditions. It's not that unusual for licensed hours to be different to planning conditions - the two tests are different. There are good reasons (I am sure) but no time to go into it here.

The upshot of this is if licensing grants the extension and they use it, should a complaint come through to Lewisham Council (from close neighbours who have been disturbed for instance) there is a chance that enforcement proceedings for breach of a planning condition could come about.

Brockley Nick said...

That sounds reasonable. And the idea of a small extension to say 1pm, rather than 3pm also sounds very sensible.

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

I personally would avoid the Wickham Arms on a Friday unless you are a Karaoke fan.

The live music on Thursdays Saturdays and occasional Sundays are the best evenings IMHO.

patrick1971 said...

"It's not that unusual for licensed hours to be different to planning conditions - the two tests are different. There are good reasons (I am sure) but no time to go into it here."

And our elected representatives wonder why we get frustrated with council bureaucracy and lack of enforcement of existing rules...

Surely if the chap's planning permission says he can't open between 11pm and 8am, any application to do so should be immediately refused, end of story, and he should be told to make an application to change his planning permission?

Cllr Dean Walton said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Cllr Dean Walton said...

@patrick71

I agree with you that it is and sounds confusing...the reason is just as much down to the way in which the rules and regulations have come about and the roles in the past.

It it is only recently that licensing has come into local government - so a lot of planning conditions set in the past (including this one) pre-daate the more recent licensing legistslation - and this type of licensing before that was done by magistrates so a lot of the ideas come from that strand.

You have to also look at what planning laws do - they look at buildings, places, objects, uses and asks whether any demonstrable harm could come from a particular use and if so could that be alleviated. In this case it is has been determined in October 2001 that the premises here shouldn't be open beyond 11:00pm - remember that the premises could probably turn into an A2 or A1 use at any time without need for planning permission - so what planners were saying 'whatever business is here should not open beyond 11:00' - this condition can always be varied by means of a suitable planning application - a committee/officer today might take a different view.

Looking at the licensing situation - we start to analsye the type of business in more detail and assess whether the person in charge can run that business and promote the licensing objectives. The proposer for extension of licensing hours is clearly of the opinion that he can do this - whether he/she/they can convince the committee remains to be seen.

I have also been told that the Planning Department at Lewisham have informed the Licensing Department of the condition from October 2001 on the opening hours.

new girl in town said...

Hi there,

I am moving back to the area this month after successfully persuading my northern boy that south is where its at!
Having been a regular at moonbows I was sad to hear it had gone and have been trying to contact john on email and in writing to inquire if he is selling as I would like to buy the place but have had no luck reaching him. Does anyone have a contact number for him? or have i missed the boat on this? Like you I want a decent place to go to have a coffee, a beer or a great rioja with good people and even better music which is how I would run the place if got the chance! any advise on reaching him would be appreciated! thanks

Moira said...

Hi New Girl,
Contact me on moira@brockleymax.co.uk and I'll forward your email or phone number on to John.

Headhunter said...

Ooh, possibility of Moonbows coming back - you go new girl!

Pete said...

"I am moving back to the area this month after successfully persuading my northern boy that south is where its at!"

As an exiled yorkshireman can I say that was cruel of you...

Monkeyboy said...

you were exiled? Why, what did you do? Hope it wasn't anything to do with whippet abuse....

Headhunter said...

Some of my roots are in Yorkshire, however I was born and bred in Luton...

Pete said...

I wanted to get a job and there aren't very many where I'm from unfortunately.

Headhunter said...

So Pete, been out on the bike much? I notice that you tried to catch the DP Sun ride but missed them last weekend (I'm guessing that's you on the forum over there?)

Pete said...

That's a different Pete, I've turned into a really lazy git and only commute now. Its the new job, its sapping my energy levels.

I will resolve to go on a ride in the next couple of weeks. I am developing a bit of a spare tyre...

Graeme said...

So it's not just me then! (Confession - I've barely touched my race-bike since September, but don't let them know this on the Paragon Forum!) Even riding my pub-bike to sessions at the Gowlett hurts my legs. Comeback to commence shortly (if I can be arsed).

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