Bakerloo Line extension - not just a pipe dream?

As discussed here, the idea of extending the Bakerloo line beyond Elephant & Castle to this part of South East London is one that has been kicking around for a long time.

However, London Reconnections claims to have good sources within London Underground, who suggest that serious plans may now be taking shape:

"London Underground undertook a strategic investigation into the possibility of extending the Bakerloo Line back in 2007... It is believed that a southern extension to the line was marked out as a major recommendation in the South London Corridor section of TfL’s Underground: 2025 report, produced in the same year, which concluded that of all the options in the area (Victoria Bakerloo and Northern), an extended Bakerloo would yield the most benefit.

"Sources indicate that TfL’s report also looked to establish what route an extension would likely take... and that, broadly speaking, it recommended three possible options, with London Underground’s own in-depth assessment concurring with TfL’s findings."

Of the three options outlined, two would directly benefit this area:

Option 1: Via Honor Oak to Catford Bridge
Option 2: Via Herne Hill
Option 3: Via New Cross to Lewisham (and then potentially to Ladywell and Catford Bridge)

Reconnections claims that options 1 and 3 are the preferred routes, currently.

While this project remains a distant prospect, it seems very likely that the next tube extenstion for London will be coming this way.
With thanks to Richard Elliot for spotting this.

30 comments:

Brockley Kate said...

WOOF!

How good would this be?!

I wonder whether someone high-up at TfL lives in Brockley? We certainly seem to be getting our fair share of the transport love.

Anonymous said...

2025? Oh well, at least we'll all be on free travelcards by then. If, of course, we can hold our wee in for the duration of a journey.

The Cat Man said...

lol, speak for yourself! I'll still be a sprightly 47!

LewishamLovely said...

Hmm, option three please. I'm surprised only one goes via Lewisham actually. Surely it has the best chance of creating a proper SE London transport hub. And in turn dragging Lewisham station into the 21st century. Hopefully the current improvements to the station might be finished by 2025!

david said...

Option 3 please as well (and 16 years seems a while to wait so how about a bit sooner too!)

Then, back in the real world ...

Sue said...

Yup, we looked at this at our Sustainable Development ctte mtg back in January. Section 12 of p9 of this report might be of interest. Mayor of London is said to be very keen on the idea and members of our ctte certainly were too, though it is clearly in the fairly distant future.

Anonymous said...

Whatever! I am sorry to be so cynical...i don't believe it. Just at the last moment they will decide to divert to an affluent area and stop at kennington.

How long ago was surrey canal road on the pipeline?

This would be great news for SE London but we are the only people that actually care about SE London...

I'll stop moaning..Thanks for the ray of hope

Sue said...

@Anon, I share your scepticism, but take some comfort in the knowledge that the best way to get to the Tory-voting masses in Bromley is via Lewisham . . .

Anonymous said...

oh so the Tories are behind this new route Sue?

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

I shall be retired long before this is built.

Not sure yet whether to go for the
Yorkshire Dales or for Dartmoor?

Anonymous said...

To they have tube stations? 24 hour transport hubs and the like? At least a deli?

Polster said...

This would be great, and for the good of the general community I am pleased, but if I am still here in 2025 I will be very depressed.

david said...

Cynical as well (but only because being hopeful will result in a feeling of dissappointment). It really would be something to have the Bakerloo extended through to interchange on the Overground etc even if it does take 15 years from now ...

Anonymous said...

Get in. Imagine that! A tube here in Ladywell.

Actually I am forever arguing that we don't need the tube, when you can get to Charing x in 22 minutes. It would however be nice to have the option and certainly the frequency of services it might bring. Would they use Oyster on trains as an argument against the demand? It certainly makes sense to say that Lewisham should be a transport hub.

Just out of interest, we have a map which came with the deeds to our house just below Hilly Fields, showing the original High Speed 1 route was a chugging great big tunnel under Hilly Fields/Ladywell and out to wherever it was going to pop up. Glad that didn't happen.

Harry said...

Almost completely off subject, but can't find the info anywhere. Does anyone know how many trains per hour will be passing through New Cross Gate on the ELL in each direction when it re-opens next year? Thanks

Monkeyboy said...

According to the blurb

....The extended East London Line will open with 12 trains per hour calling at all stations between Dalston Junction to Surrey Quays. South of Surrey Quays the East London Line splits to three branches, New Cross, West Croydon and Crystal Palace. Each of these branches will be served by four trains per hour.....

will be improved and extra carriages introduced a little later apparently.

Monkeyboy said...

Some words of caution*, the feasability report was done in the heady days of 2007 before bankers started eating each other. TfLs budget and 10 year funding aggrement has been severely dented. LU have already de-scoped the former Metronet work, they may also have to find several billion to keep Tubelines scope of works on track - assuming they don't de-scope that. Also it's not immediately clear if Crossrail will survive the election, capital spend on a new line will either have to be funded from central government or the current work will have to be delayed AGAIN. We're already paying through the nose for re-furbs and continual closures because there were decades of under investment in the tube. A new line will obviously be a boon and be well used but show me the money.

*Monkeyboy has no inside knowledge, this is all watercooler talk from the behemoth that is London Underground.

Lou Baker said...

I suspect you'll find proper plans for an extension brought forward quite quickly.

Network Rail and TFL have both identified significant capacity problems in SE London in the very near future - and a Bakerloo extension is the quickest, cheapest and easiest solution.

The goal is probably for the Bakerloo to take over the Lewisham to Hayes mainline. This has wider benefits - including freeing up capacity at London Bridge which means more trains can be run in from elsewhere.

So the issue is how would an extended line get from Elephant and Castle to Lewisham? It could come via Brockley - so let's start a campaign for it now.

PS: Lou Baker has no vested interested in Bakerloo beyond coincidence.

LewishamLovely said...

Monkeyboy - surely we're talking funding from the future not any current deals. I think a new 25 year plan is to be released as a draft next year by TfL. I imagine funding will (hopefully) be proposed in the years following that.
As an aside, anyone else find it strange catford bridge is included on two options and lewisham only one? What logic is there in creating another hub in close proximity to lewisham?
And it's a shame it looks like either camberwell or lewisham misses out if it's either option 1 or 2. After all this time and all the rumours I thought both were a given in any extension

patrick1971 said...

I like both Options 1 and 3, but I would have thought it would make more sense to go Elephant/Camberwell/Peckham Rye/Nunhead/Brockley/Lewisham/Ladywell then on to Hayes.

The Cat Man said...

Well, thats a good point Patrick. The line next to Brockley Station is not used frequently at all, and there is the space there to integrate the existing station to a newer one.

Tressilliana said...

Any increase on capacity that means more people stopping at Denmark Hill station would necessitate a big re-think about that station. It no doubt seemed like a brilliant wheeze to the British Rail property dept 30 years or so ago to sell off the booking hall to be a pub but the huge numbers of commuters using that station now get to and fro the four platforms via one narrow passage leading to the outside world. Unsafe, apart from anything else.

samantha said...

More good news for Ladywell. Nice bread would be high on my list.
Samantha
Professional Monitering security systems for Homes, Offices & Appartments

Anonymous said...

With this sites interest in chuff chuffs and Loampit Vale I thought the following may be of interest.

Fancy living 1.5 metres from a railway line with 24 trains an hour passing overlooking a skip yard?

Well, search BUILDERS YARD ADJACENT TO 87, LOAMPIT VALE, LONDON, SE13 on Lewisham's planning database.

Anonymous said...

Won't ladywell village lose it's charm if has a busy tube? I know it is a bit run down at the moment but it has much of the potential of being like a mini Blackheath. The 2x parks, post office, florist, cafes, great community and only 5 mins by buses (2 separate bus routes) to Lewisham.

Headhunter said...

I wouoldn't worry, with the current state of public finances and the speed at which major infrastructure programmes move, we'll all be dead and buried before Ladywell gets a Tube...

Anonymous said...

Seriously - stop wasting breathe even thinking that this is going to happen in your lifetime.

Anonymous said...

"I know it is a bit run down at the moment but it has much of the potential of being like a mini Blackheath."


Run down at the moment? Yes. And for the last forty years (Well at least in my living memory). Whereas Blackheath has never been run down.
Anyway, keep taking the anti-psychotics ;-)

Anonymous said...

No doubt...eventually...tube lines WILL venture further south of 'The River' when 'the powers that be' decide south of the river is worth promoting as a non-plebian axis

Ngatcha said...

I don't see a Bakerloo Line extension anytime soon. If the population gets so high that in South East London and more trains/longer trains/longer platforms isnt enough then the extension can happen. But this is very unlikely.

You all need to remember that traditionally railway extensions [Jubilee Line, Crossrail, Overground] and new lines [DLR]are only built if there is a massive brounfield site that can be developed [Isle of Dogs, Stratford City, Barking Riverside].

The Bakerloo Line will provide new stations for Camberwell and Walworth plus a direct service to Brockley. So this is a positive, however TfL will lose money on this project.

Remember within 2 weeks of opening the Jubilee Line extension paid for itself. It is very unlikely that any Bakerloo Line extension can make a lot of money for TfL

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