I Spy: Wet & windy edition
This week we're having a taste of local history - but no Googling is allowed for this one! Go on then, where do you think it is?
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30 comments:
Thinking about it, I'm not sure about Lewisham Council's punctuation on that plaque - 'Irish, socialist' should surely be 'Irish socialist' ?!
Ah! I know where that is, have been meaning to write something about this for a while - this is definitely in "greater" brockley.
Don't give them any clues Nick, they're already too damn good at this game!
Agree about the punctuation. More Council Tax wasted. Also, you wonder whether LBC would erect plaques in honour of old Tories.
The plaque's been there for years, probably before Council Tax even existed (from the days of enraged ratepayers)
It was I recall the scene of a drunken sing song after a Lewisham bloggers drink a couple of years ago.
On the subject of the "Red Flag" (and wouldn't it be lyricist rather than author?) it is rather fun that the words of "Earendil was a mariner" from Lord of the Rings fit perfectly to the tune.
I think it's on Brockley Rise, south of the Brockley Jack. Promise I didn't google!
It's up near Stondon Park / Brockley Rise on the fron tof one of the houses as you go down towards Brockley Rd.
Will I get tied with Beecroftian If I give the houses history Kate lol.
Yep, it's Stondon Park.
That comma makes me want to cry.
Or is 'Irish' a noun now?
It certainly has a "no blacks, no dogs, no Irish" connotation to it
not at all. its not the best grammar, but i think we can read it as just denoting the guy's nationality. Kind of a peculiar choice, syntactically questionable, but not malicious or derogatory. For all i know, all such plaques begin by stating the person's nationality --- thus emphasizing our long history of multi-culti-ness in lewisham. and long may it continue. nick's plaque might read, "British, Founder-blogger of Brockley Central". Aside from my doubtless outrageous assumption that nick may be british, would that also be inflammatory? That said, a semi-colon or even a full-stop would have been preferable, imho. Where's Pedant?
There's also the issue that since Socialism is an internationalist movement to call him an Irish Socialist (without a comma) could be seen as a misrepresentation of his opinion.
15th November 2009
Monkeyboy live here. Italian(ish), fat bastard. Consumer of TWO lamb shanks and enough mash potato to choke a horse.
In Nick's case it would still be 'British founder-blogger'.
The comma is superfluous.
Lewisham Council please note: Am available as consultant in exchange for beer. All offers to the usual email address, please.
The comma is clearly correct. He was not an "irish socialist" (whatever that might be) he was irish and a socialist and an author. I note no one has complained about the "and."
'Irishman' would have avoided the problem.
'Person of Irish extraction' ?!
Anyway, they look like hierarchical (non-co-ordinate) adjectives to me, hence no comma.
I can see why they were trying to avoid 'Irish Socialist' if (as I guess is the case) he was active in British rather than Irish politics.
Have to agree with Hugh's point that this smells a little of Labour Party propaganda. It's Lewisham Council-funded but features a permanent promotion for one party (the Labour logo). It's not an official English Heritage plaque.
Doesn't bother me unduly, but it seems inappropriate to include the Labour rose and I would hope that noteworthy political figures of other persuasions would be similarly celebrated.
Anyone know whether any other red plaques have been handed out in the borough or is this one group's publicly-funded hobby-horse?
There IS another red plaque in the area, Nick - for someone non-political. I was going to do it in a future I Spy, so I'll keep it under wraps for the moment.
I think councils have started using the red plaques because the blue ones aren't available til someone has been dead for 20 years (http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.1498), so it's a way of commemorating more recent famous people.
... although that doesn't explain this one, since he's been dead for considerably longer than 20 years ...
Ah - having looked into it a little more, I think that the plaques are put up by whichever official body wants to commemorate someone. So the other plaque I'm aware of, for example, says it was put into place by the society set up to commemorate that person.
Trying to keep it vague here! Am I making any sense?!
Lewisham Council has an official maroon plaque scheme, but according to their website, this is a private one, sponsored by, well, Lewisham Council. So that's clear as mud.
Not vague enough for me, Kate! I think I now know what you have in mind and will try to remember to note down the house number next time I pass that way.
You can only put up a blue plaque for someone if the building is the same one they lived/worked in etc, but if it's been replaced with a newer building you can't get one. I think that is part of the reason that a number of local councils have a "own brand" plaque scheme.
It's been done with trademark Council craftsmanship too. Compare: http://ow.ly/CL7B
Sometimes Lewisham Local History Society fundraises for these, I believe. Ladywell Soc want to put one on the side of Masons to mark the original site of the Lady Well and have put a bid in to the localities fund to that effect. They cost about £1,000 apparently.
I would be very surprised if Council funds had been used to pay for smthg with a Labour Party logo on it - I would have thought the local Labour Party would have paid for that themselves, but I could be wrong/naive!
Stondon Park, No.25 ?..... well time to get coffee..
R
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