East London Line launch plans revealed

The brilliant London Reconnections has the details of the East London Line launch.

So this is the plan.

The lucky people who use New Cross or New Cross Gate stations will be able to ride the rail from April 4th on a limited, 4tph service. For the rest of us using Brockley and Honor Oak, the full 8tph service will begin on May 23rd.

And once it's up and running, these will be the journey times:

- 8 minutes from Brockley to the Jubilee Line interchange at Canada Water
- 16 minutes from Brockley to the District Line and Hammersmith and City Line
- 26 minutes to the end of the line at Dalston to the north
- 22 minutes to West Croydon at the end of one southern spur, 12 minutes to Crystal Palace at on the other

Once the ELL2 extension is built, a journey from Brockley to Clapham High Street will take 24.5 minutes, while Clapham Junction will be 31.5 minutes away (in both cases, not counting interchange time).

No details yet of journey times to Highbury and Islington, once the full route is open in 2011, but London Reconnections notes that Surrey Canal Road station is mentioned in the journey time tables, which is an encouraging sign for the campaign to include it in the new line.

As we've spent the every morning commute of 2010 queueing at London Bridge just to get in to the station to use the Jubilee Line, the opportunity to get on at Canada Water and bypass the crush can't come soon enough.

Thanks to Beecroftian for spotting it.

78 comments:

BCY said...

Can't wait for my direct link to Shoredich! Whoop, whoop!

Bring on the ELL!

Anonymous said...

3 minutes from New Cross to Brockley? A bit slow........

Anonymous said...

Think the three mins includes dwell time at the station

Monkeyboy said...

The fly in the ointment is the delay in upgrading the jubilee line but looking forward anyway. Had to wait 15mins for a train at lb after the pub

Brockley Nick said...

Yes, dwell time included.

I reckon Brockley - London Bridge in the mornings typically takes 14 minutes. There's a 4 minute interchange to the tube, which means 18 mins before you're on the Jubilee Line platform, assuming the gates aren't locked due to overcrowding.

At Canada Water, the interchange is about a minute, so a total of 9 minutes before you're on the platform.

Plus, of course, now we'll have the choice of two routes and 14 tph to choose from at rush hour. That's of course IF you use the Jubilee Line...

The Cat Man said...

This is quite good - I work just north of tower bridge, so will be getting the train direct to wapping then a 5 min walk. So for me, somethign like 12mins train plus 5 min walk = 17 mins, compared to 12mins train to LB and 15 min walk = 27mins.

Thats 10mins quicker by using the ELL.

Also looking very much for trains to Shoreditch - seriously, the pubs there are very good!

Ben said...

Walking from London Bridge to Shoreditch is currently about the only exercise I get...

And 16 minutes to Whitechapel makes Tayyabs particularly convenient...

I don't think my doctor is going to welcome this as much as I am.

Lou Baker said...

Bypassing the London Bridge crush would be good if you didn't have to negotiate the Canada Water crush instead.

Brockley Nick said...

@LB - the crush at London Bridge is the result of everyone from dozens of trains at London Bridge trying to get on at the same time. And it's the eastbound service which is the problem. So if you're heading westbound, getting on at Canada Water should be a piece of cake.

Anonymous said...

I think the key here is choice.
We can all get hung up on exact times and whether this route is quicker than another route, but traveling around London can often change in an instant because it's subject to such delicate happenings. Any tiny thing can throw a spanner in the works and at any stage.

I welcome the chance to have a choice of routes, and perhaps I'll feel less bothered waiting for another train if one is too full, because at least I know there will be one following sooner than the usual wait at Brockley. I think it gives us great flexibility.
J

Anonymous said...

There has always been a Canada water "crush". Sometimes the trains to canary wharf are so full that you have to let 3 pass before you can get on. Trains are emptier going westbound into London from Canada water though......."all those lucky new cross people" who haven't had ELL access for 2 years and repeated road closures.....

Fingers crossed that station at Surrey canal road is included. Can't wait for easy trips to spitalfields - great vintage shops and food stalls & shoreditch bars yeah baby:-)

Tracy said...

22 minutes to West Croydon - that is five more minutes than to East Croydon now on a fast train from Sydenham. Also commuters to Croydon have to use grotty old West Croydon instead of lovely shiny East Croydon and can't therefore pop into lovely new Waitrose on way home but have to fight the Croydon facelifts and buggies down the high street!


every silver lining has a cloud

Danja said...

Great news. I can't wait not to have to use the rubbish railways, it's been a really irritating couple of years. Shame you lot up the line will be taking what used to be our seats, though.

Anonymous said...

I think a lot of people are looking forward to the direct link to Shoreditch...but it's this sentiment that's making me a little worried about the ELL.

Will the ELL bring further development and regeneration to areas like Brockley/New Cross/Depford et al. or will it just drive people to East London?

The Cat Man said...

I think Shoreditch will certainly have a element of negative outflow for regeneration in brockley but overall i think there will be a net positive change. I tihnk we have enough local decent businesses to support a positive influx.

Anonymous said...

What is the benefit of the Surrey canal road stop if you don't support millwall - serious question don't know that area well... Any stuff to do or useful interchanges?

Anonymous said...

You could pay a recretational visit to the local dump... and that's about it.

Tamsin said...

If you live in any of the residential estates around you can get out to work or leisure and people can get to you - family and friends visiting. It is iniquitous that the powers that be are even contemplating pushing a new line through there (with all the noise and hassle and on-going low-level disruption after it opens) without doing one thing that would make it worthwhile for the area and that would be infinitely cheaper to do now, as things are being built rather than shoe-horning it in later.

Anonymous said...

Will we still have direct trains to East Croydon from Brockley?

Tracy said...

Re East Croydon- I don't think it is clear of they will be the services which are axed when there are less Southern trains , I suspect they will be so trips to Brighton and the south coast will mean a walk from W Croydon to change trains

patrick1971 said...

My understanding was that more trains would stop at Norwood Junction, so there'd be interchange there rather than at East Croydon. But I have no idea where I read this so it could be totally wrong!

angelofthewest said...

I use East Croydon to get to Gatwick, and I assume that's the case for others too. Surely they won't make us troop through turstyles, trundling suitcases and hand-luggage, through the streets of croydon?! Madness. Its bad enough as it is. Tracy@11.11, your enthusiasm about ECY makes me doubt your judgement....

Tamsin said...

I haven't quite got my head around it but I started off crying "woe, woe, woe - no East Croydon easy change, how do we get to Gatwick with our luggage" to find outfrom those in the Forest Hill Society who have really gone into it (and Lou, who posts here sometimes) that there will in fact still be trains to East Croydon - just fewer of them and some gaps in the timetable.

Anonymous said...

Glad to hear it - loss of the direct East Croydon trains (and hence the easy connection to Gatwick) would be a much greater problem for me than losing the ones to and from Charing Cross - though that's bad enough.

Nux said...

I saw a picture of the tube signage for the new ELL in the Lewisham Mercury, there was Brockley listed as a tube stop in the proper font and everything - made me stupidly excited! Not that I have anywhere to go these days...

Anonymous said...

nux - any chance you can post up a link?

Anonymous said...

One downside to Surrey Canal Road opening is that we'll be subject to fans travelling to Millwall matches on our line. Anyone who has ever witnessed the scenes at London Bridge with sympathise.

Barry Milton said...

Links to West Croydon, East Croydon and Gatwick will be greatly improved in May. West Croydon will have 6 direct trains per hour (4 ELL and 2 main line). There will still be 2 direct tph to East Croydon off peak plus four more tph (6 during rush hours) if you change at Norwood Junction. More "fast" trains to Gatwick will also stop at NJ.

Headhunter said...

Re the signage in Underground font etc, when the ELL extension was 1st begun, TFL actually produced maps which were up in stations etc showing the entire new extension, labelled yet to open, in all Tube stations, but then shortly after, took them down again which was a bit strange.

There definitely should be a stop at Surrey Canal Rd, not so sure about the Milwall fans but that area is a complete desert of public transport.

Through the 19th century and early 20th there was a major train station at Bricklayers Arms - something along the lines of London Bridge and there were other stations including one called Old Kent Road, but all that was ripped up and now there is almost nothing except South Bermondsey station.

It makes our area with Brockley, Crofton Park, New cross St Johns etc seem incredibly well connected

Anonymous said...

My favourite thing about this is that finally Brockley is on the London tube map. Feel like we've arrived!

Anonymous said...

Is it? Not yet though surely?

Headhunter said...

Brockley is on the Tube map but so is just about every suburban train line it seems. TFL seems to have gone for a broader, all encompassing train map these days, like the Paris one with the RATP, or whatever it's called, trains and Metro all on the same map

Anonymous said...

Okay, that lessens the impact somewhat if loads of other stations have been included.

Monkeyboy said...

To be pedantic, we will be part of the overground which is owned and operated by tfl. We will appear on all versions of the tube map wheras other suburban rail services only appear on the London connections version. Only a subtle difference but does make us part of the family, a foster child perhaps but loved non the less!

Anonymous said...

Just don't expect a seat, cos you're not gonna get one in this brave new era.

Headhunter said...

The new trains won't have much seating anyway, they'll have bigger open spaces around the doors, like the bendy buses or perhaps the DLR trains, at the expense of seating, so that more people can be crammed on, standing

Anonymous said...

I sortof get the point of that, but I'd prefer a future where the same or more people get a seat as they're used to, not less. :(

Mb said...

A seat is irrelevent if you can't get on the train. I'm happy to lose seats and get more capacity

Dictionary of misplaced priorities said...

Brockley - where people will happily stand on a train every single day and buy organic buns when they get off it.

M said...

I'm not sure we are 'happy' about it but what do you suggest we do exactly?

Anonymous said...

What does being unable to get a seat on a train has to do with buns?
Please think more before posting. Thanks.

Tamsin said...

Surrey Canal Road (now approved I see, good) is not on the Brockley Branch but on the one through to Clapham (who can enjoy the Millwall Fans). link

Mb said...

Well if you're unwilling to stand I have no suggestions. Sorry

Matt-Z said...

While we're talking about seats and buns, you'll need a well-cushioned rear if you're lucky enough to get a seat on the new ELL. The benches on the Capitalstar trains are rock hard.

Anonymous said...

has anyone considered how the nice new shiny ELL trains are going to run a timely service when they share the smae line as broken down and delayed southern services !

Headhunter said...

Most of the trains operated by Southern through Brockley seem to be nice, shiny, air conditioned ones these days, however I get your point, it only takes one silly excuse from Southern (lack of drivers, sprinkling of snow on the track or the lady at Forest Hill station has nipped out for a tea break or whatever) and our branch of the ELL seizes up too.

Lou Baker said...

@tamsin

I'll be pleased if there still are links to East Croydon. I have an email from Southern which says otherwise but maybe it's wrong - after all they are run by a bunch of goofers.

I still think everyone's getting a bit over excited about the East London Line. In this part of town it's still the same railway it's always been - just with a new bridge and set of points at New Cross Gate ....

Anonymous said...

"I still think everyone's getting a bit over excited about the East London Line. In this part of town it's still the same railway it's always been"

Bit of an odd comment, Lou - it's not the railway itself, it's the places it can take us to - or are the direct trains to Canada Water etc. a figment of our collective imagination?

Anonymous said...

And the new trains, new signalling and actually quiet a lot of new track. There's also a clue in the word 'extension'

Lou Baker said...

@anon

South of the river the 'new track' really is no more than a bridge and a set of points at New Cross Gate. The extension bit is in Hackney - great for them but not much use to most of us.

Some folk mistakenly think that this is some great revolution in public transport in south east London but, frankly, it's not. For most of us, most of the time, any improvement will be marginal at best. For many things will be worse.

But I've liked reading about Dalston. Thank God I don't have to go there again though. Grim place.

curmudgeon spotter said...

hey Lou, change the fucking record will ya!

Anonymous said...

Every time I'm stuck at lb I dream of being able to stay on the jubilee and change at Canada water. Why chane tails if they are in good nick by the way? You should cheer up sunshine

Anonymous said...

Anyone know how easy (or otherwise) the changeover is from the ELL to the Jubilee Line at Canada Water?

Anonymous said...

king nightmare

Anonymous said...

Down one escalator and your there.

No lie, it is probably the easiest interchange on the whole tube network.

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

Not exactly a nightmare but a single escalator from the Jubilee (lower level) up to the ELL (upper level).

Its then another level up to the outside air.

SC said...

Compared to the London Bridge train/tube interchange, the one at Canada Water is an absolute cinch. The escalator is also a pretty short one!

Tamsin said...

@curmudgeon spotter. Lou, and I and people in NXG would not be quite so curmudgeonly if we had been treated with a bit of decent honesty at the outset. If the powers that be had said, "OK, no real change for you, but what will be happening is a major improvement for the rest of the SE London transport infrastructure." One would have accepted it. But they didn't. They had to pretend that it was going to be the bees knees and the best thing since organic sliced bread for everyone (even those in NXG who could already get to docklands (thanks to Brunel) and on empty trains). And it is that which p*ssed me off and still does so.

Danja said...

Admit it, nearly all change is bad, Tamsin. Since 1901, anyway.

There are a few easier interchanges, where lines run on the same tracks or tunnels/platforms run right next to each other. But that's it. It's a short flight of stairs as well as the escalator.

Anonymous said...

Tasmin the voice of reason as always. Yes, they did themselves no favours with the presentation. For my pattern of use, the train/ell service will be spot on

Tamsin said...

It was, I admit, fun trying to confound those talking about an improved service with information culled from a reprting of the 1922 Bradshaw.

On the ELL extensions - I just didn't want to share the privilege of that forgotten link up to the underground network with all these Brockley-ites and people from further South and West who will simply clutter up the trains before we can get on to them. ;o)

Ed said...

I always liked the northern line interchanges where you walk a few metres through a tunnel and there you are e.g. Stockwell. Less scope for that these days.

I intend to change at Canada Water to get into Canary Wharf; I'll be bloody annoyed if my net gain invovles watching full trains leaving from Canada Water rather than Brockley.

P.S. Is it me or has the Southern service to LB been really bad this week?

curmudgeon spotter said...

I will get my violin and we can mourn the loss of your treasured seats.

The ELL slagging game is very tired now but my point was more about the incessant moaning about Hackney and its surrounds, and his perceived irrelevance of going there.

Fine to think that, but there is no need to go on about it ad nauseam.

Anonymous said...

The easiest interchange is victoria line to northern line at euston.

Scott said...

@ Ed

Yes the Southern service to London Bridge has been awful this week. I've noted two things:

1) The trains seem more packed than ever.

2) None of my rush-hour morning services have arrived on time.

Brockley Nick said...

@Scott / Ed - yes, it's been terrible recently. So has the Jubilee Line.

Ed said...

Packed, short trains always late. If it's not a fire it's jammed doors and when there's nothing like that an 'earlier fault' will do. I know it's an old question but why do we have to pay more for less?

Withholding judgement on the ELL until June (when I have actually used it).

Headhunter said...

Evening Standard also says that there will be a series of 24 hour strikes on the Jubilee Line from next week by Engineers over pay. So travel on the Jubilee will be even more fun!

Yes, Southern services do seem to have been a bit of a nightmare. I took a train back from London Bridge late in the evening which are supposed to be 8 car trains, we were promised longer trains I think in return for a less frequent service and trains terminating at London Br, yet everyone was crammed onto a 4 car train.

How quickly promises by Southern fall by the wayside.

Anonymous said...

There is no way I am getting excited about ELL given everything that has happened with the trains, station and environs these past few years. There's been frequent hypes about Oyster arrival, new station steps, new train operator followed by disappointments, so I like a few sober minded others, will reserve judgement until the trains have arrived and I've used them.

The Oracle said...

The London Overground Diagram
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6VGfAYJNog

Tamsin said...

And it's labelled "North London Lines"....

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

Anyone know if the Sunday 4th April part opening is going ahead?

It would be very helpful if there are now trains next week even if you do have to start from New Cross/New Cross Gate.

TfL appear to be keeping quiet about what is happening.

Mb said...

Lots of rushing around here, it's not an LU issue but we have sone involvement. Suffice to say it will be tight. Actually no one is quiet sure why or where that 4th April date came from. A politician probably.

TM said...

Thanks for the update MB. Guess I will have to go down there on Sunday or Monday to see what if anything is going on.

Shame I was going to cut the grass on Sunday.

;-)

Tamsin said...

Can anyone advise on how to get to East Croydon (and so Gatwick) on a Sunday without the extra changes. I thought we still had the link.

Tressilliana said...

From National Rail Enquiries it doesn't look as if you can get directly from Brockley/New Cross Gate to East Croydon on a Sunday, Tamsin. Probaby quickest to go to Victoria and pick up the Gatwick Express there, although that's also probably dearer.

Brilliant service on a Saturday - less than an hour Brockley to Gatwick! I doubt that's much comfort, though.

Anonymous said...

The journey to gatwick via east Croydon is normally fine on a Sunday. Not today though, due to engineering works.

Tamsin said...

Thanks - and he also and unexpectedly found New Cross Gate station closed when he got there suitcase in hand! Luckily he had built in enough slack in the timings.

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