If not here, then where?

"Is there any theatre or any culture or any things of any sort?
No, there's nothing like that Stew. It's like being dead. But the quality of life Stew, you can't put a price on it."
- Stewart Lee on life in London vs a horse in a field in the country and massive prawns in Australia

It feels like treachery even asking the question, but we've had a suggestion for a new topic from a reader:

Where would you move to if you left Brockley and why?

Obviously, there are no winners in this scenario, only losers.

135 comments:

BrockleyBiker said...

Blackheath. No doubt about it.

Anonymous said...

Walford

Tamsin said...

Telegraph Hill ;o)

I do know someone who moved from the farthest end of Cornwall to Orkney - and wondered why...

Culture Vulture said...

Nowhere else in zone 1 or 2, that's for sure. More affluent areas may be more pleasant in some ways, but you wouldn't get the community spirit which (in my experience) sets SE4 apart from other post-codes.

I used to think I'd eventually move somewhere rural, but I'd miss the (relatively) easy access to theatres, restaurants etc. I'm lucky in that I live in a particularly quiet bit of the conservation area, close to Hilly Fields, and the loudest noise from outside is generally birdsong, so it's easy to forget I'm in a big city.

So far as I can see, I'm a Brockley Lifer.

Anonymous said...

If I was forced to move away from SE London, probably Wimbledon, Chiswick or Richmond. Most other places seem really crowded (narrow streets, teensy gardens) compared to here.

I'd need a LOT more cash, mind you.

Anonymous said...

...and to really feel and appreciate that community spirit read almost any thread on this website - take your pick- and feel the warmth and tenderness that we all feel for each other.

jon s said...

Paddington or Surry Hills, Sydney, Australia.

The dearth of culture sniped at is ameliorated by the Sydney Theatre Company, Sydney Dance Company, Archibald Prize, Sydney Writers Festival.........

Anonymous said...

I'd love to live in Sydney if I could bring it (climate and all) to the UK - but then of course about 10 million other people would want to move there too.

Anonymous said...

Sydney is the New York of the 21st Century

Pete said...

If I was staying in London then I would want to move to Greenwich or possibly Herne Hill.

If I was able to leave London then it would be to go home to the Yorkshire Dales.

Ross said...

"Paddington or Surry Hills, Sydney, Australia."

do you mind me asking why, out of all london, paddington?

TM said...

I've said it before on here; retirement will mean either the Yorkshire Dales or the South Devon Coast.

A late contender however may be the Hampshire Downs near Chichester

jon s said...

Paddington Sydney, I grew up there and Bondi. Mea culpa for the dangling modifier!

I'm flattered with the support for Sydney (mocking or otherwise) but warn people it is a huge city as diverse as London. I suppose the equivalent of Brockley would be somewhere like Marrickville (Brockely near river) or Maroubra (Brockley on sea).

Brockley Nick said...

To be fair to Stewart Lee, he wasn't talking about Australia specifically, but anywhere abroad where locals show off about the size of the prawns.

tyrwhitt ali said...

I always thought Greenwich or Blackheath but now I'm not so sure about the tourists (Greenwich) or lack of transport options (Blackheath). If I'm ever going to tempt the boyfriend away from Romford, I suspect it will have to be Blackheath though!

Anonymous said...

Not taking the piss, Sydney is like New York 100 years ago. My boyfriend is an Aussie actor and is clued into what happens. Cate Blanchett is running their top theatre company and they have heaps of theatres/performance spaces. The opera house has 5 by itself as well as at least 20 others scattered around the city centre.

Oh, I'd live in Dalston, but first I need to finish my degree at Goldsmiths.

Tressillian James said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tressillian James said...

Hampstead (maybe with a quick stopover in Greenwich first).

If I'm moving country then it's Washington DC or Tokyo

(Had to repost after an unfortunate typo with the word country)

Anonymous said...

Anon@16.20 I hear what you're saying - but there's one key difference between blog and reality - if you meet, let's say, an arrogant, self-satisified tw*t in the real world you can give them and their vile utterings a wide berth. If they post regularly on here (and blogs do attract that kind of person, for the very reason that in the real world most people give them a wide berth), it's harder to avoid them.

That said, the tw*ts are a small minority, even on-line, and there are plenty of community-spirited people who do post on this blog, and thanks to the efforts of Nick, Kate etc., overall it makes a positive contribution to the area.

Anonymous said...

Edinburgh.

Zoe said...

Sadly this question for me is actual rather than theoretical. My husband and I have lived in a bright flat in Brockley for more than five years, supporting local businesses, making friends and watching SE4 really flourish. Now we have a baby we can't seem to find a larger place we can afford in SE4 (and yes, we have looked outside the conservation area). So we are moving to Honor Oak - though I am pleased that this blog largely considers "Brockley" to extend to Brockley Rise, so technically, we will still be Brockley Central-ites.

The Oracle said...

Heaven.

oryx said...

@ Zoe - I'm in the Honor Oak/Brockley Rise area and consider it part of Greater Brockley! (It's a great area BTW). I thought you were going to say you had to move to Dartford (apols to anyone from Dartford).

If I had to move from Brockley I'd go for one of those quiet streets in West Greenwich. I could also quite happily move back to Clapham Old Town, as long as it had more mod cons than my old place, which had hot water, gas and lecky and not much else.......

drakefell debaser said...

I think I would stick to SE London or push off back to Africa.

Mind you parts of the South of France are nice as well.

All 3 would be preferable.

Murk said...

New Cross. Right next to Sainsbury's.

grae said...

Dartford truly is a dump. No apologies

Ed said...

Back to Manhattan for me. Sydney will never be anything like New York which feels like the centre of the universe...

Headhunter said...

Tough question. If in London, Hampstead and Highgate are very pleasant north of the river. Blackheath and Greenwich over this way. Don't really know SW London well enough to pinpoint a specific spot although I'm aware that places like Barnes and Richmond are desirable.

Outside London, in the UK, very few places really. Possibly Cambridge, Bath, Edinburgh. Wouldn't really want to live somewhere shabby and provincial...

Outside the UK, who knows. I liked Sydney and suppose I could live there but wouldn't be too happy living under a hole in teh ozone layer. Likewise Melbourne. In Europe I wouldn't mind giving Berlin, Barcelona or perhaps Rome a try...

abdou said...

I'd stay in Brockley and eat five prawns

Anonymous said...

I'd like to know people's current best guesses as to how long they they'll stay in Brockley, and what they expect will be their reason for moving.

Anonymous said...

East Dulwich

Monkeyboy said...

While witness protection are paying the bills I'm staying.

Anonymous said...

Berlin - cheap rent, great beer

Anonymous said...

Sweden

Richard Elliot said...

Sydney, but is isn't as good. I'll be back to Brockers.

Pete said...

Clinton Hill, Brooklyn - I stayed at a friend's place there and every time I walked out of the door I could look over to Manhattan and see the Chrysler Building glinting in the sun. It alwayd gave me a jolt.

In SE London maybe just up the hill onto Lerningham Road, New Cross with one of those immense gardens that go down to the railway.

Out in England, maybe in one of the villages just below the Yorkshire Dales near Pendle Hill.

sorely tempted said...

what's the rent on a Berlin flat these days?

MB-did you suggest this?

Anonymous said...

I have thought about this, but unless my income went up by several leagues and that would mean my lifestyle completely changed I don't think I'd live anywhere in London.

My flat is about as good as I could ever wish for in zone 2, access to garden, off street parking, stones throw from buses, shops, a lovely and improving park Hilly Fields, quick access (Southern permitting) to central London, great community, things are always happening, new shops, events etc etc. Plus close access to the delights of Blackheath and Greenwich, without having to face the relative downsides, tourists and poor travel options.

I think the area could have a lot more things happening though. I'd envisioned the Tea Factory as a hub of creative activity, the area does need a light industry of some sort. We have a pretty strong artistic community but needs amp up the marketing and develop not brand a coherent offering and consistent and high quality offering.

Anonymous said...

Sydney is Los Angeles, Melbourne is New York...if you like big pubs with pokies and no live music scene then Sydney is definately for u

mintness said...

You can get a decent 2-bed flat in a central district of Berlin for €500/month, I'd say. And if you're willing to live a bit further out or in an ugly-but-refurbished Soviet-style block (or simply shop around a little), you can knock a good €200 off that. Germany must be one of the few countries where the capital is nowhere near the most expensive city in terms of living costs...

That said, I far prefer Hamburg as a place to live and Berlin as a place for a mad weekend every so often. :)

Anonymous said...

Berlin rocks... every good 'mung' fanatic from Brockley should love it... check it out: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/10/berlin-anarchists-torch-cars

Tamsin said...

My godmother was a New Zealander - came over as a young woman to see the world in the early 1950s and stayed in London for the next 40 years. As my mother told the tale, her family kept saying come back to NZ, but she loved music and ballet (took me to see Fonteyn and Nuryev once) and refused - but come back over, we've got plenty of shows, at least ten a year. No way, she said, here in London I've got a choice of ten a night!

She lived in Barnes, which someone mentioned above. In a lovely two up two down cottage with a tiny patio garden and while not facing the river just one street away. She used to give Boat Race parties where the guests would watch the start on TV, rush out to the line the bank and see them go by in flesh - or splash - (while she did a bit of clearing and at least stacked the washing up) then troop back to see the finish.

Here in London you are at the hub of things.

Lord Darren said...

Probably Rotherham or Wolverhampton.

Anonymous said...

Salford

Anonymous said...

Salford

Anonymous said...

I really fancy moving to Havant

Anonymous said...

"how i dearly wish I was not here in the seaside town that they forgot to bomb, bomb, nuclear bomb..."

Happily this is nowhere near the sentiment I have for Brockley (or Berlin)

Anonymous said...

Anon... I agree with you Salford is sooo the way to go

Anonymous said...

yeah I hear its like the Clapham of the North

The Cat Man said...

has to be winchester

M said...

I'll have a house in Roupell St, Waterloo to live in during the week and a house by the sea in Dorset for weekends thanks.

drakefell debaser said...

In the article about Berliners burning cars, it mentions that the most popular target is the Mercedes Benz.

Perhaps these anarchists are working for the state and their operations form a covert part of their car scrappage scheme.

Anonymous said...

Drakefell, you could combine 2 of your wish list and move to the Old Kent Road!

Tressillian James said...

I'd agree with Berlin - a friend moved there and bought a large central flat (in Mitte near the Museums) for not that much at all. He works from home for a UK company. Best of all worlds.

Hugh said...

Would be more interesting if the question were: where will you move to next?

Graeme who's still sorely tempted said...

Went to Berlin in 82 when it was still divided and had the best new year ever there after the fall of the Wall in 89/90. (I have hazy memories of crashing in a squat which was a former SS HQ - but maybe that's what they tell all the gringos.) The 90's were probably the maddest decade, and I hear it's quitened down a bit, but I could still imagine myself living there.

*googles Berlin property*

drakefell debaser said...

Drakefell, you could combine 2 of your wish list and move to the Old Kent Road!

I could yes but then I wouldn't get the climate, open space or the wildlife.

Anonymous said...

Brisbane/Gold Coast is Los Angeles, Melbourne is Chicago/Boston, Sydney is New York. The seedyness, financial centre, arty liberals, restaurants, cafes, gay scene, theatres, galleries. Melbourne competes with the rest of Australia, Sydney competes with the world.

Hugh said...

This thread must rank as the most tedious ever on BC.

Lemme tell you about the epic new year's we had in Bali in 06, yah? It's was sooooo cool!!

graeme said...

Gold Coast. Good call. Anywhere between Burleigh Heads and Byron would be fine and dandy. (Actually anywhere warm and sunny would do me today.)

graeme said...

No Hugh, that was in '95

Anonymous said...

I must not feed the troll, I must not feed the troll, I must not feed the troll....

Don't comment about how tedious cycling, fantast salaries, fantasy bonuses and thighs are, Doh!

Hugh said...

Can we have a thread about why God is great vis a vis Haiti?

Hugh said...

Glad you think the salaries and bonuses are fantasy, Anon. Keep grinding those teeth.

Anonymous said...

oh dear, you are terribly lonely aren't you?

Anonymous said...

single white male (cute) seeks......anyone/anything?

jon s said...

Wow, sort of suprised by the support for Aus, but not by the resident troll's snipe or the anonymous dig at Sydney from Melbourne.

Sadly we get yobbos everywhere and no nation should be judged by them, be they a British lager lout on a stag night to Prague or Larakins at Angor Watt poluting budget airlines as well as their destinations.

Nick, how about a threat of what Brockley can adopt from the rest of the world and other London suburbs and a poll of where people would live if not Brockey? (Sydney, Other UK, New York, Berlin, Tokyo)

Anonymous said...

It's a myth that Melbourne has more live music than Sydney. Most of it is semi-underground bars and clubs. Avoids regulation and keeps the superficial out!

See here

Ed said...

C'mon Hugh, we all know god likes to test his peoples' faith with disaster, death and dinosaurs.

Anonymous said...

someone is touchy bout the sydney vibe posting links for support...i tell u wot is superficial riding single speed "fixies" in Sydney real cool but practical???

drakefell debaser said...

Re Haiti, here is a Christian who is watched all over the world with his view on why the earthquake happened.

http://ow.ly/Wni5

Shepherd's Bush Design Charter - Group 1 said...

Interesting responses, bit depressing that places even more chi-chi than Brockley predominate.

Berlin, if you could actually get a job there.

In London, Deptford may shape up quite well. Dalston is ok but seems to be becoming shoreditch-twatty a bit too quickly. Hackney Wick is great at the 'mo but much will depend on what happens post Olympics and whether the cultural scene gets priced out.

Anonymous said...

evidence = touchy, lies = cool. Fixies are supid and everywhere

Anonymous said...

Corfe in Dorset near sea and also life firing army range if you missed London lovererely!

Anonymous said...

Why does God allow suffering?

http://protestantism.suite101.com/article.cfm/why_does_god_allow_bad_things_to_happen

And here's another (scroll past the introductory anecdotes...)

http://www.theshockofyourlife.com/content/why-does-god-allow-suffering

Anonymous said...

now we're bringin out the big guns...

2 words for u Mr Sidney

RAMSAY STREET

Anonymous said...

Walford, Summer Bay, Ramsay St, Coronation St.....

M said...

We didn't start the fire...

Headhunter said...

Someone mentioned Wolverhampton - I used to live there, had a great time and loved it, but then again I grew up in Luton so didn't have much to aspire to. However I read somewhere that it ranked as the 5th worst town/city in the world to live in! Only slightly above El Salvador or something...

M - Roupell St? That's a lovely little road! I love the Kings Arms...

Sydney vs Melbourne - I'd been to Sydney and before I went to Melbourne everyone said I would definitely prefer it, however I think I prefer Sydney. Although I was only in both places for 2 weeks each. Sydney is certainly superficially superior!

Mb said...

Why does god allow Wolverhampton?

Hugh said...

Is God making fun of Benitez?

drakefell debaser said...

Is God making fun of Benitez?

Probably, everyone else seems to be.

puzzled said...

Anyone do psychology here? If so, explain Hugh? What is going on there pscyhologically viz a viz the boasting and God talk?

Siggy said...

Small penis.

Anonymous said...

small winkie.

M said...

*insert your own 'massive cock' joke here*

Anonymous said...

It is funny and sad how much bile Hugh incites. He is wittier than most here and has a way with words, which is more than most people have!

Murk said...

Depends where in Luton, the Old Bedford Road area for example has it's moments...

Headhunter said...

Just off OBR actually, between Luton 6th Form College and Barnfield College.... How come you know Luton?

Anonymous said...

Re 'Hugh'

"The two most common styles of
narcissism: grandiose and symbiotic, show these dimensions (Hockenberry, 1995, p.308). The classical description of a narcissist is of an overt grandiose or phallic style, typically associated with the traditional male gender role (Reich, 1933, cited in Akhtar, 1989, p. 506). Outwardly, features range from arrogance, dominance, self-centeredness, drivenness, exhibitionistic, articulate communication, to contrasting hypersensitivity and defective empathy (Akhtar, 1989, p. 506-8) and to disguise insatiable cravings for admiration."

Full article here

If you search for Narcissism on the web, you'll likely end up with a load of confusing guff by Dr Sam Vaknin. Stick to analysts like Kohut, Kernberg, Masterson and Morrison. Current thinking is that it's a defence against early shame and humiliation.

Anonymous said...

make that http://www.lifethatworks.com/narcissism_shame.htm

4x4 said...

I have to agree with those who said Barnes, Chiswick and Richmond are desirable places to live.
If I had to stay in Lewisham it would be in a gated development.

Danja said...

Doesn't the narcissism diagnosis require a sense of humour bypass all the way around the self-parodic elements of 'Hugh'?

He can't be serious

Jez said...

This site has convinced me to try nihilism.

Brockley Nick said...

@Jez - then the last three years have all been worthwhile.

Anonymous said...

Self parody? For example...?

Anonymous said...

If you reject theism, nihilism is pretty much the only way to go.

It gets you off any moral responsibility too, which is handy. On the other hand, it's quite hard to find a sensible reason to carry on breathing.

Brockley Nick said...

So atheists should kill themselves? I see...

afa said...

Why is there so much God talk, it's never constructive and always leads to offence for one side or the other. If you don't believe in God, whatever, just get on with your life.

Anonymous said...

Removing the jargon, anyone who trolls has been hurt and rejected, usually early on in their lives. They want attention or a reaction from someone. Any analysis, response, anger or discussion created gives Trolls a high, the same high non sociopaths get from sex, charity, social bonding, mutual nurturing, etc.

Don't feed trolls!

Anonymous said...

@Nick

No, certainly not - no 'should' about it. Rather, if it's all ultimately futile and meaningless, then what's the point of living?

Hugh said...

To be fair, I am both beautiful to look at and blessed with genuine intellectual brilliance.

ann anon said...

Belgravia, I love that area. The stucco fronted houses, the proximity of Hyde Park and the way that the area is stable, there's no wild developments there, like we're subjected to in Lewisham.

Murk said...

HH: Born and raised there, by the lovely area of Marsh Farm. Can't say I've been through Luton recently though, not that I can imagine any drastic changes occurring there.

Anonymous said...

Stockholm or Paris

Danja said...

No, certainly not - no 'should' about it. Rather, if it's all ultimately futile and meaningless, then what's the point of living?

Grab a crutch quickly, or you'll sink.

Anonymous said...

If I could afford it Belsize park or Copenhagen if abroad

Anonymous said...

Belsize park is celebville, loads of tv presenters live there. Before moving to Brockley we looked very hard and very longingly at Crouch End but it was flat size that pulled us south

Tressillian James said...

Belgravia? Well if we are going to those levels of impossibility then I'm changing my vote from Hampstead to Mayfair.

Anonymous said...

Think big TJ. Don't limit your dreams.

TM said...

I work in Mayfair its not all its cracked up to be.

Fortnums is more expensive than Tescos on Lewisham Way (although they do a nice line in fois gras) whilst Langans is more expensive (for a similar menu) than the Talbot. You do get table cloths in Langans though.

The view from Green Park is less impressive than from Hilly Fields Buck House excepted of course.

Grant you Mayfair is handy for the West End Theatres.

Anonymous said...

Always found it funny how people rip themselves off to wear or eat a millionaire's name instead of getting bespoke or boutique for a fraction of the price.

Tamsin said...

Brockley used to be handy for West End theatres before they cut the Charing Cross service.

Here we get incomparable views - it must be the North Downs that you see from the top of Hilly Fields - and it has always struck me that going out into get you get to the deep countryside quicker than a similar route west or north.

Anonymous said...

Oh Tamsin don't talk about the Charing Cross service :( . It was so convenient.

Tressillian James said...

"Think big TJ. Don't limit your dreams"

I'd never limit a dream...

Tamsin said...

@anon. I've been whittering on about it to a tedious extent, but you (and your friends, colleagues, relations and pets) have signed the petition, haven't you? On line or, until Monday, in Browns, the Broca and the Shop on the Hill.
If we shout and scream enough there is a faint chance we might get the Charing X service back and prevent further cuts in March. If we just grumble and complain to each other nothing will happen.

Hugh said...

Nick, can we have a ski thread?

Anonymous said...

Tamsin (or anyone else), do you have a link for the petition? I know I should not be lazy and search for a link myself, but I keep reading comments saying we should all sign it but they never have a link to make people act. On the very rare occasion I use the train, it is to get to the West End so I guess it does/could affect me in the future. I definitely don't think they should have removed this service, which I'd imagine is causing more carnage changing at London Bridge?

Anonymous said...

+1 for Roupell St, Waterloo. Or Trinity Square SE1.

& probably somewhere in the Westcountry.

TM said...

Hugh

No point in a ski thread now the snow has melted.

Unless you want to discuss the Orpington dry slope.....

Headhunter said...

Murk - Marsh Farm? Hardcore! You really iz Luton, innit. I lived in relatively salubrious environs!

Hugh said...

TM, darling, some of us are skiing nevertheless.

TM said...

Frankly Hugh

I don't GIVE a damm........if its not happening in Brockley.

Try Alpine Central Blog.

Anonymous said...

TM "Fortnums is more expensive than Tescos on Lewisham Way (although they do a nice line in fois gras) ...."

Foie Gras

TM said...

If you say so. I'm more a Shiphams meat paste man myself.

Tamsin said...

@anon 11.37 There's a link from thehill website to the on-line one and, unless it's raining, the hard copy one will be out to sign in the Telegraph Hill Park Farmer's Market tomorrow - along with tickets for a Bold Vision Gala Event on 29th Jan. and info on how to get involved in the Telegraph Hill Festival.

BrockleyBea said...

Newcomer to the Farmers' Market at Telegraph Hill - can I have a clue about timing and venue, sounds great

BrockleyBea said...

And have just located TheHill website will all info....trip out tomorrow to check it out sorted :)

Murk said...

HH: Survival of the fittest. I'm well 'ard, blud.

Anonymous said...

I'd move to wherever Ben Cohen (rugby player) lives, preferably on the right side of his bed!

Anonymous said...

Soho. Because everything is at your doorstep, there's never a dull moment, you can walk anywhere you need to go.

I have an office near Old Compton Street and Frith St. It's the centre of the universe. Yes. It really truly is. I like to consider Brockley my country retreat.

Anonymous said...

Soho was better in the 60's.

London is too clean and shiney these days.

Tamsin said...

Agree about Soho being too clean and shiny now. Presumably it was public money spent on all that erzatz "china-town" - I would have thought that the real chinese community would be far too hard-nosed to indulge in such tourist-trap window-dressing. It is great fun - but not to live with - and struck me as rather insulting somehow.

Anonymous said...

I want to see the sun go down from St Kilda esplanade
Where the beach needs reconstruction, where the palm trees have it hard
I'd give you all of Sydney harbour (all that land, all that water)
For that one sweet promenade

love detective said...

i'm increasingly going off stewart lee, he came across like a proper smug metropolitan liberal in that 'quality of life' routine, and he's becoming increasingly predictable/tired in terms of his material and more so its delivery (then again, aren't we all) - although still head and shoulders above anyone else

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