The death of politics

The Lewisham Green Party has opened a new HQ on Brockley Road, ahead of the elections. Located at 252 Brockley Road, their pop-up venture was formerly Crowley Memorials (now relocated to Stanstead Road, Forest Hill) and will be open from 10am-7pm.

So is the Green Party the first to park its tanks on Lewisham's lawn? Are they going to be the most active campaigners in Brockley?

Please use this thread to let us know about any other political campaigning you see locally.

75 comments:

The Oracle said...

Hayden Estates became Brockley Holistics (now gone), the Aquarium soon leaked, but its waters fed an Orchard, Pavillion Estates stood aside in Degustation, Magi's did a Houdini. But in its place - abracadabra - La Broca (dining area), Brown's of Brockley grew from a Dandelion which soon withered, and Jam Circus rose - phoenix-like - from the ashes of Ye Olde Brockley. And then there was the Brockley Kitchen, now a Rhythm that may not suit the Brockley beat.

Anonymous said...

I must pop down there and offer them a bacon sandwich just to see the horrified look on their faces.

Anonymous said...

OMG! That would be hilarious! they've probably never even seen bacon!!!! Pwned! ROFL!!

Anonymous said...

The death of politics pah!Corney
I knew the location of the Green campaign shop would lead to some puns.
I personally hope that Darren, Dean, Sue and the band of merry Greens knock em dead!

Anonymous said...

JCTWBAH.

Anonymous said...

"pop up"? please.

Anonymous said...

us Greens aren't all veggiers you know. pah! old fashiooned inaccurate stereotypes!

Anonymous said...

The Socialist Party have set up a front organisation called 'People before Profit' and their HQ is in the Tea Factory building.

Anonymous said...

"People before Profit"? Sounds like a pile of old socialist rubbish. I can imagine them spouting things like 'Oooh lets blame those who get out of bed to work hard to earn something for the woes of those that dont....'

Anonymous said...

The main result of People Before Profit (which are running for Lewisham Mayor) will be to take Labour/Lib-Dem and Green votes but not enough to win the Mayorship itself. May be enough to damage Dean's vote though if they did well.

Anonymous said...

Anon @13:13 your comment is at least as brainless. All those put out of work due to the financial services meltdown are feckless scroungers? Grow up and read more.

Brockley Jon said...

The Lib Dems have a good blog Up in Forest Hill.

Anonymous said...

Anon 13:55 I agree - the bankers were working but to what good did they do us? 'People before Profit' is a well meaning phrase but also a bit of a tired cliche in left-leaning circles.
They could have even used 'Another Lewisham is Possible' - I imagine they will if they haven't already...

Brockley Jon said...

Btw, meant to say, The Oracle, that was rather brilliant.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Indeed it was a little amusing if slightly off topic Mr/Ms Oracle...
I'd like to see someone takeover Brockley Holistics - it's starting to look a mess. A pop up shop or gallery perhaps...

Anonymous said...

Great - only the Green Party can save us from global warming. Look out the window - it's boiling out there.

Anonymous said...

yawn - yet another person confuses weather with climate...yawn...

Anonymous said...

Anon 14:38: i can't quite believe that this needs saying, but weather does not equal climate.

Don't forget to breathe, by the way. It's in, then out, then in, then out, then in, then out, and then continue the sequence.

Congratulations on working out how to turn on your computer, by the way.

Anonymous said...

@ Yawning weather denier: 'Phil Jones of the Hadley CRU, and key figure in the "climategate" scandal, admits that there has been no "statistically significant" global warming since 1995.'

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=FUL20100222&articleId=17769

Danja said...

You like the simplicity of that supposed message anon?

To save me typing

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/02/climategate_distortions

Brockley Nick said...

Little known fact but a friend of a friend of BC's is related to Phil Jones.

Anyway, New Scientist thoroughly debunked a very similar list of "reasons why man-made climate change is a myth."

Suggest you read here:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/benedictbrogan/100020109/new-scientist-v-the-daily-express/

Anonymous said...

The point was making is that peeps have been put put of work by the financial markets imploding, the car industry and associated component suppliers for example. Are they lazy? This idea that claiming benefits is wrong annoys me. You get people playing the system at both ends of the systems - tax havens anyone?

Anonymous said...

Anon @13:55 - Where did you get the "All those put out of work due to the financial services meltdown are feckless scroungers" from?

People who work hard, earn decent money and pay reasonable taxes (and i exclude unwarranted banking bonuses from this) should be congratulated and held as an example in our society especially to kids, not made feel guilty by socialists and then taxed so much that so they leave the country as its not worth their while living in the UK. In the states those who are sucessful are held in great esteem where as here its as if they should be ashamed and should immediately give it to the government to throw down some tube. The Socialists obsession with everyone 'being the same' regardless of how much effort they put in sounds like a communist regime without the need for everyone to actually chip in.

BTW the financial meltdown does not have one central point of blame such as 'the bankers' as you suggest. Everyone from the top Government financial regulatory authorities right down to the common man borrowing more than he could afford to repay are equally as responsible for the financial crisis as those working in the banking sector, which by the way I dont.

Anonymous said...

The current economic mess the country is in is due to the American banking system and their irresponsible lending.Because our banking systems are linked globally it became a global meltdown. It was exacerbated in the UK by our deregulated financial system and our over reliance on the financial sector.

Anonymous said...

Read again... 'Oooh lets blame those who get out of bed to work hard to earn something for the woes of those that dont....' implies that those out of work are lazy, it's a lame and brainless implication. By the way I've never been out of work, am well into the higher tax bracket and have no issue with supporting those who need a hand. In an affluent society social provision should ba a right not a privalage. Like I say, read more.

mintness said...

So who really *is* the "second party" in the fight for Lewisham Deptford anyway (futile though it may be) - the Lib Dems or the Greens?

Tressilliana said...

I don't think the LibDems have as many council seats in Lewisham as the Greens, so surely the Greens are the second party round here?

Sue said...

Thanks for the mention Nick. We're not fully up and running in the shop yet, but getting there. Hope to have some second hand books for sale soon to entice Brockley bookworms in, and some comfy chairs and sofa to sit on. Do pop in and say hello if you're passing.

Now, for the record, @ various anons, I think I'm the only one of the 6 Green cllrs currently who is a vegetarian (Darren is a pescetarian, the rest are omnivores), but don't let that stop your fun, as I do occasionally sprout my own mung beans, so you can fire all the tired old stereotypes just at me ;).

@mintness, re who is the second party in Lewisham Deptford - I'd say the Greens, but of course I may be a bit biaised ;). Last time round (2005), the bookies' odds on a Green win were 100/1, this time round they are 12/1, with the Lib Dems on 33/1 and the Tories on 100/1.

At the 2005 general election, when Greens only had 1 cllr in Lewisham and nationally the Lib Dem vote benefited massively from the anti-war vote, they came 2nd and we were 4th, just behind the Tories. Since then, however, I think the situation in the constituency has changed somewhat. We now have 6 Green cllrs (compared to 2 Lib Dems in Lewisham Central, which will come into the constituency with boundary changes at the general election). In the 2006 local elections, we came second to Labour across the entire constituency. 2008 London Assembly elections – across the borough, Greens and Lib Dems were neck and neck, but in Lewisham Deptford itself, we were clearly ahead of the Lib Dems on both the list and member votes. 2009 European Election results – Greens came second across the entire borough, ahead of both the Lib Dems and the Tories. From our telling at the count, we were neck and neck with/possibly just ahead of Labour in Lewisham Deptford constituency (although it was difficult to work this out accurately as the postal votes for the whole borough were mixed in with the rest).

2010 locals and generals: Lewisham Deptford is one of the Green Party’s three national target constituencies, along with Brighton Pavilion and Norwich South. Labour have a pretty hefty majority to eat into, but we’re giving it our best shot and campaigning hard across the constituency. The Lib Dems seem to be focussing their efforts on just 2 of the 7 wards in the constituency, whereas we are targeting 4 and maintaining a presence in the other 3.

Of course, as constituency organiser for the Green Party, I am more than a little biaised, but hope that helps!

maxink said...

It seems you forgot to mention that on Lewisham Council there are 6 Greens and 16 Libdems.
But I would point that out, wouldn't I? Even if just for the sake of clarity.

John said...

I think it would be unwise to vote for the Greens in Lewisham Deptford. As much as I despise New Labour I would rather have them running the country than the Tories. New Labour need all the help they can get to keep them out.

John said...

I think it would be unwise to vote for the Greens in Lewisham Deptford. As much as I despise New Labour I would rather have them running the country than the Tories. New Labour need all the help they can get to keep them out.

maxink said...

Oh don't please.
Enough of this argument.

Either you support a party and therefore even a robot would do as long as it's got the right rosette or if you don't support a party per se then please vote who you think is the best among the candidates in front of you.

And possibly a candidate that supports the proportional system so that we put to rest this "vote this to keep that out" forever.

Anonymous said...

I am somewhat bemused (not to say annoyed) by a LibDem canvasser advising my partner via a cold call that the Green Party were not fielding any council candidates in Crofton Park.

A quick look via the Green Party website tells me they are.

I wasn't going to vote for the LibDems anyway (prolly be Labour nationally and Greens locally) but if this is the kind of thing the LibDems do then perhaps local people should be aware of it......

maxink said...

Does that beats Sue's Post above where one could understand that there are 2 Lib Dem Councillors in Lewisham instead of 16?

Sue said...

Max, 'mintness' asked about Lewisham Deptford constituency, not the whole borough, so that's what I responded to. I wouldn't make the same claims about the other two constituencies in Lewisham.

However, while we're on the subject (!) What about your 'only Lib Dems can beat Labour here!' charts that are going out in Crofton Park, a ward where you have regularly been coming 4th after Lab, Greens and Tories?! Surely it is more relevant to use a graph showing recent election results in the local area, not just the total number of cllrs in Lewisham, particularly when most of your cllrs are in East and West Lewisham, not Lewisham Deptford?!

As for the Tories, John, they have got a fairly steady 12% for the past decade or so in Lewisham Deptford, and even with a HUGE national swing in their favour, Lewisham Deptford is not going Tory this year, the bookies have them on 100/1 for this seat. I'm sure that won't stop the tired old 'vote Labour to keep the Tories out' argument being used of course.

Fully agree with Max that you should vote for the party whose policies are closest to what you believe in, not the least worst option. I'm sick of Labour using the 'vote for us or you'll let the Tories in' argument. They've had over a decade to deliver on their '97 manifesto pledge for a referendum on voting reform, then we get offered some ill-thought out stitched up option (Alternative vote) at the last minute that they think might allow them to cling onto power a bit longer.

Sue said...
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maxink said...

Sue, thanks for the clarification, the comment before yours mentioned Lewisham as a whole so I thought that people could have misunderstood your explanation.

Speaking of the infamous but now suddendly universally popular bar charts, I think it's fair to say that every party selects the bar charts that are best for them to print on their newsletters.

You say that it should be the last elections that they should refer to, well that's your interpretation, not necessarily mine as people vote differently at different elections, and with wildly different turnouts. I know you like the Green result at last European elections, but I don't think that European elections results can predict Council or Parliament results better than last Council or Parliament elections, even if they were older results.

I received a Labour leaflet for Lewisham Central where the Libdems that are actually the first party here are shown to be the last. Can't really say what election they refer to because the line explaining it is so small that it defeats my eyesight (I can't even say if it's written in English).

As for the line "only Lib Dems can beat Labour here" on the Lib Dem newsletters, that is surely true for Lewisham Council as a whole as well as the Mayoral candidate so I don't really think we should apologize for that.

In fact I joined them in the effort also because I believe that it's doable.

The Oracle said...

oops, sorry, Nick! Should have posted my comment at the top of this page on the Aladdin's Cave thread.

Anonymous said...

Sue
I thought the Greens campaigned against bookies - now they appear to be flavour of the month. How bizarre.

Anonymous said...

Sue and Max - I'll be using the 'tired' vote for the least worst party as long as it keeps the tories out. They can do far more harm to this country than any of the rest of you can do good. That's a fact, and that's what I'll us my right to vote against.

Anonymous said...

Hang on, I don't get this fascination with banker bonuses? The govt gets 50% of them anyway, increased revenue and no burden on state resources? Hellooo, is that really so bad?

Anonymous said...

Eh? The cost is tens of billions of public money to keep them afloat. Paying that back should be a priority and lending to viable bussiness. The reason why budgets will be cut for public services is directly related to the banks (and gov regulation) failures. If it was any other bussiness we would have let them fail, we couldn't. Now they should pay us back

Anonymous said...

Anon 09:19 said:
Sue
I thought the Greens campaigned against bookies - now they appear to be flavour of the month. How bizarre.


Not bizarre at all. This isn't complex, but please pay attention:

Greens have campaigned against having too many bookies crammed into a neighbourhood, they have not called for a ban and have not said people must not gamble. It wasn't about being anti-betting or anti-bookies, it's about having a healthily diverse local parade or high street.

Unfortunately changes to licensing rules in the 2005 Act have made it impossible for councils or residents to object effectively to a new bookie's, even if there are already a glut of them. So Green councillors have proposed a change that would return power to councils to set a limit. This has been supported by the council and by the Local Government Association and is now with the goverment for a decision on whether to implement it.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:48, the issue with bonuses is that as a shareholder of half the banks (via government) and implicit credit insurer to the rest, I don't believe the employees involved deserve the reward and that the bonus system is a massive option for these employees to be rewarded for the banks (and thus me) taking on a lot of risk.

mintness said...

Cheers for that, Sue and the rest. :-)

Brockley Nick said...

@mintness - so have you learned the answer to your question?

@oracle - no worries, it was appropriate to either thread, really.

Anonymous said...

Sue: have you chosen all wards where Greens will stand yet?
Has the deadline for putting your name down to stand as as a councillor passed yet? If it's not to late I would be interested.

mintness said...

Nick, I'd say I know as much as I need to know at this stage. Let the canvassing and leafleting begin. ;-)

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 09:42
The next General election will probably be held when the vote for local councils and the Lewisham mayor vote is held.
Darren has a reasonable chance of winning Lewisham Deptford. But the Tories don't really stand a chance in this constituency. So no worries if you are anti-Tory.
As to the council vote - each area is divided up into wards. your vote is for the 3 ward councillors where you live plus the mayor. Currently a number of wards are lib-dem/labour or green/labour or lib-dem/green marginals. Very few wards in Lewisham borough have a significant Tory vote at all.

John said...

Sue, my point wasn't that the Tories could win Lewisham Deptford! My point was that the Greens could win Lewisham Deptford which would mean the loss of a Labour MP in the Commons which, ultimately, benefits the Tories.

John said...

Sue, my point wasn't that the Tories could win Lewisham Deptford! My point was that the Greens could win Lewisham Deptford which would mean the loss of a Labour MP in the Commons which, ultimately, benefits the Tories.

maxink said...

John, your reasoning doesn't stand to logic.

Tory's chances to gain a majority increase only when a seat switches from whatever party to Tories.

A seat switching from any party to any other party that's not Tory doesn't affect the chances of a Tory majority.

Sue said...

Thank you @anon 11.13 et al.

@John: I see what you're saying and it's your decision of course, but at that rate we will never change the status quo (which personally I'm keen to do). I really can't see Darren going into coalition with the Tories, and think he would be of far more benefit to Lewisham Deptford and the country than one more/less Labour/Tory MP.

@anonymous 17:29: please e-mail me :)

Anonymous said...

What a load of ole tot.......something like 80% of what a local council spends comes from central government.

So it's concils that can plead poverty the best or politically attuned to the government of the day that will get the dosh with strings attached.

For example I believe the council are fearful funding for primary school places are under threat.

The centre of Lewisham is a sh*thole and likely to remain so for years, hence the 'landscaping' of an area that is due to be built on?

Where is the 'state of the art' leisure centre originally promised for 2003/2004.

Or the new secondary school that was 'urgently' required to be open by 2005/2006.

Housing it's a joke, prior to the 2006 local Mayor election the Decent housing scheme was due to be completed by the end of this year, a few weeks after returning to office the Mayor said the scheme would be completed by the end of 2012.

At this moment in time the council/Lewisham Homes has failed to reach a standard to secure funding to even fund the scheme.

We live in a borough that hasn't resolved the housing issues caused by the 2nd World War 60 years ago, let alone the intergration of Deptford 40 years ago.

So there are housing issues for the existing population yet government and the London Mayor says what the borough needs is another 15,000 homes by 2026.

Anonymous said...

If you want a prime example of the mindset in Lewisham.....you have a council that decided the best place for a large CCTV tower with bright yellow notices right next to a memorial to those who died so people could freely walk the streets of Lewisham without fear.

Danja said...

A seat switching from any party to any other party that's not Tory doesn't affect the chances of a Tory majority.

It does risk handing an excess of power to a minority party if there's a hung parliament, and if it is one which has been conspicuously flirting with Cameron, that certainly would help the Tories.

Danja said...

Or 'might' rather than 'would', I suppose, depending on whether the flirting turns out to be posturing or reality.

maxink said...

It does risk handing an excess of power to a minority party

Well, in my book some power to the opposition is good, not excessive.
Look at Lewisham Council, becoming no overall control was the best thing it ever happened to it.

Anonymous said...

In Lewisham aren't Labour's natural allies the Conservaties?

After the 2006 election didn't the Conservaties have a split among themselves and didn't they end up joining the Labour party bloc vote?

So if a vote for LibDems is a vote for Conservaties and a vote for Conservaties is a vote Labour is a vote for Labour a waste time?????

Anonymous said...

"In July 2009 the Government has advised all Round Six Arms Length Management Organisations, including Lewisham Homes, which had not yet got a two star rating by the Audit Commission, that they would not be able to access Decent Homes funding until 2011/12.

This announcement means a delay in the commencement of work in Lewisham by about six months.

To access this funding we must get two stars in our inspection in June 2010.
"

No luv its a 9 year delay and what promise is there the scheme will continue under a new government.

Danja said...

At the local level, I'd prefer a clean sweep and have a lib dem council - seem to be doing a much better job in Southwark than Lewisham does.

At the national level, I wouldn't ever vote for a party which might get into bed with the tories.

Anonymous said...

Danja - the Lib Dems (Nick Clegg) said he wouldtnt rule out working in a Tory coalition if there was a hung a parliament.

Anonymous said...

Danja - the Lib Dems (Nick Clegg) said he wouldtnt rule out working in a Tory coalition if there was a hung a parliament.

Danja said...

Yes, I know.

Tom said...

See Michael White's perceptive blog entry in the guardian for a good review of whether clegg will back the tories. Basically, Clegg has said he wouldn't team up with them.

Indeed, a repeat of 1974's first election (switching Heath for Brown) appears possible: Clegg left as potential kingmaker but unable to bring his (rather left-leaning) party into alliance with the Tories.

Paul Bell said...

The Lib Dems do seem to be going round telling people that the Greens are not standing in Crofton Park. A bit odd considering there are three Green candidates doing the rounds. Anyhow, reading this blog you'd think there has been nothing good from a Labour Government. No one party has all the answers, but in election time we campaign and say we do. I am standing for the Labour Party in Telegraph Hill because I believe that the Labour Party is the best vehicle for social justice in Lewisham. However, there are other parties who have some good ideas and some excellent candidates. Though I am biased in favour of Labour candidates, I do believe that after the Lewisham BC elections we should work closer together to redistribute wealth and create greater opportunity for all our residents.

We are all given labels. In Telegraph Hill there are two Socialist Councillors who consider themselves to be socialists, but what right does anyone else have to say that my view of myself as a socialist is incorrect. Political Parties are the vehicle for politics to get to its destination of governing on behalf of the people. The media and public perception of each political party is different from one door to the next.

Sue and Max, I read your blogs and I value your views and opinions. Intelligent and caring politicians may be in short supply, well if you believe the media, but there are many.

Whatever our differences are, and from your blogs I would say there are not that many, lets campaign positively.

Rob Blackie said...

Let's be clear - we in the Lib Dems haven't said that the Greens aren't standing candidates in Crofton Park.

However what we have said to people was that the first Green Crofton Park council candidate (Storm Poorun) stood down so he could pursue being a Parliamentary candidate in Hammersmith.

So late last year there were no Green candidates selected, and from the Green leaflets it looks like your candidates were only selected in January.

Jim Jepps said...

Rob - It seems to me that there's a world of difference between "they selected their last candidate late" and "they aren't standing" and the reason people feel they've been told the latter on the doorstep is because that's what they've been told.

The consensus seems to be that this is a really stupid lie - but it's irritating none the less.

Anyway, the announcement of candidates was delayed because Storm stood down, not because no one else was selected. He also stood down for personal reasons not political ones.

Is there some reason that you feel you can state things as cast iron fact when you clearly don't know anything about it?

Anonymous said...

At least there's no prospect of Storm troopers on the doorstep?

Anonymous said...

Danja said "At the local level, I'd prefer a clean sweep and have a lib dem council - seem to be doing a much better job in Southwark than Lewisham does."

I think Southwark is run by a Lib Dem / Tory coalition. And from the endless stories of controversy and incompetence you can read in the South London Press, i'm not sure you can be so adamant that things are better run there than in Lewisham.

What's the reasoning behind your opinion?

Rob Blackie said...

Jim - it would be a lie - but it didn't happen!

If our anonymous contributor would like to send me an email and tell me who they are I can check if we've ever phoned them at all. I suspect our anonymous friend is the person that one of our phone canvassers described as 'a very angry Green party member' who was either the Green agent in Crofton Park (not exactly unbiased) or their partner when I checked.

Danja said...

What's the reasoning behind your opinion?

Experience of using services in both boroughs. Admittedly fuzzy perception of relative success in regeneration.

TheManorMilitia said...

We were flattered by the presence of the Green Party on our doorsteps but since we assisted them in getting a candidate nominated they seem to be more elusive than Lord Lucan. The planning application at Ashby Mews, and other applications that were turned down, suggest that they know there is an agenda by the developers and council and so look the other way, pretend to listen, and then toe the council line on planning issues; which is damning for 'green' conservation area representatives in the eyes of the electorate.

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