This. Is. Brockley.


Following the debate on this thread, here is Brockley as seen through Brockley Central-tinted spectacles.

As far as we're concerned, the areas are defined by the stations we're near and the spheres of influence we share. North Brockley is influenced by New Cross and Deptford, Central Brockley by Lewisham and Ladywell, Crofton Park by Catford and Honor Oak and West Brockley by Nunhead, Honor Oak and Telegraph Hill. Ward boundaries and conservation areas are relatively meaningless.

We look forward to being told how wrong we are.

94 comments:

M said...

According to that map we're not even in Brockley which is... er, wrong. SE4 is Brockley and we're in SE4 - Ladywell end of Adelaide. You need to move your south-eastern boundary a little further south and east.
Other than that I reckon it's pretty accurate.

Brockley Nick said...

Sorry M, hard to tell on a map of that scale. I was fearful of incurring the wrath of Ladywellites by eating up too much of their turf.

I'll wait until the other errors are pointed out and redo.

Monkeyboy said...

So long as you've bagged Babur you have my endorsement.

b. said...

comerford road in crofton park.. i guess id have to agree.

Matt-Z said...

Pretty good, but I'm not sure about Brockley stretching almost to the bottom end of Tanners Hill. Ask anyone who lives down there and they'll say Deptford, or at a push New Cross.

Brockley Nick said...

People. What do they know?

Having said that ward boundaries don't matter, I think the Brockley Ward goes that far down.

drakefell debaser said...

Woah there, your map has stripped me of my Westside badge and suggests I am now a Northerner.

On the other hand, North of Darkside ain't so bad.

M said...

Fair enough. Also I'm pretty sure the roads running off Brockley Grove (Gordonbrock, Henryson etc) are in SE4 too.

Headhunter said...

Manor Avenue seem to have been labelled "North Brockley"... which is accurate I guess.

The Royal Albert said...

Seems about right, except I hadn't ever thought of anything on the 'other' side of Lewisham Way as Brockley, is it SE4?

Monkeyboy, do you mean the takeaway, because I'm sorry to say the restaurant falls way outside of the border.

Matt-Z said...

The only option for Brockley is to expand, and annexe lseser neighbouring areas, subsuming them into a new, greater Brockley zone. Some names would be forgotten, and some people would be annoyed (see the Clapham/Battersea/Lavender Hill controversy), but it's the only forward to ensure our total, local domination.

Brockley Nick said...

Go along to a Brockley Ward Assembley, you'll be surprised how much of the ward is north of Lewisham Way.

Also, sorry St Johns but I don't think of it as an area in its own right - it's divvied up between Deptford, Lewisham and Brockley in our fevered world view.

Brockley Nick said...

Assembly, even.

Tamsin said...

Love the random labelling of stations on these maps - Honor Oak Park?

Agree with DD, surely west of the railway line is west.

To follow the SE14/SE4 split (the old Surrey/Kent border and the border of the Haberdashers estate and the Telegraph Hill Conservation area you need to extend your North West Frontier by a street - to include half Pendrell, all Wallbutton, 3/4 Vesta, all Reservoir and most of Sandbourne.

Anonymous said...

SE4 goes south as far as Bankhurst Rd down by Ladywell Fields too. South Brox!

Anonymous said...

http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/postcodes/map.html

BrockleyBiker said...

Brockley does not cross Lewisham Way IMO.

darryl said...

The tanks have crossed Lewisham Way - the Brockley snipers are taking up positions at St John's station... it's an incursion into Deptford!

Brockley Nick said...

@Matt-Z Greater Brockley is essentially everything on that map, plus the Horniman Museum.

Brockley Nick said...

@BB and Darryl - According to the ward boundaries, Deptford and St Johns do not even exist in this dojo. The ward definition of Brockley is virtually "Brockley North" on my map.

Brockley Nick said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Brockley Nick said...

Here's the ward map http://bit.ly/bCeAFQ

Bea said...

Interesting British Museum post code map - and even more interesting to read that today 101 years ago they were celebrating the release of a Suffragette from prison. But isn't the Presbyterian church St Matthews - or was there a church opposite which is now the car wash?

darryl said...

Ward boundaries don't make sense, though - especially the more recent ones. If you followed those, Brockley and Greenwich would be neighbours (at Deals Gateway/Greenwich High Road).

Over here, the Charlton ward includes a small part of Blackheath; and I certainly didn't grow up in a place called "Peninsula".

Brockley Nick said...

"Ward boundaries don't make sense, though - especially the more recent ones. If you followed those, Brockley and Greenwich would be neighbours (at Deals Gateway/Greenwich High Road)."

Makes sense to me! ;)

Moira said...

Nick - Are you sure the Crofton Park Ward boundary is accurate? According to Cllr Jackie Addision, venues (apart from The Honor Oak and Ackroyd Centre) taking part in this year's Brockley Max are on the outside edge or to the north of the ward. These are Mr Lawrence's, Jam Circus, St Hilda's then? - One of her reasons to not fund the festival from the Crofton Park Localities Fund.
BTW did you ever receive a reply to your request for an interview?

Anonymous said...

Salehurst Road is in SE4

Brockley Nick said...

@Moira - the ward boundaries I linked to are correct, as far as I'm aware.

Yes, she did, and I am half-way through writing up the interview. Must get it finished.

An Alien said...

Does this mean those of us who live outside the boundaries can no longer read the blog?
*worried face*

maxink said...

This is like the partition of India. You've made more than one estate agent very unhappy today.

drakefell debaser said...

I wouldn't worry too much about the estate agents, I heard through the twittervine last week that an estate agent was using Elephant & Castle as a selling point for places in Brockley - apparently we are only 10 minutes bus ride from the E&C.
Has anyone else caught this magic 172 before?

BCY said...

Erm!?! A confused BCY scratches his head in Leeds! So where is east and south Brockley!?

BCY

Harry Potter said...

I think I've taken that bus.

Anonymous said...

Nick, map making obviously not your strong point. You've been far too generous in terms of space to central brockley. If there's a west brockley there must be an east brockley.

Tamsin said...

No, think of the three ridings of Yorkshire.

Anonymous said...

There is an East Riding of Yorkshire still, that's where Hull is.

Anonymous said...

Or you could just think about it sensibly.

Tamsin said...

Yes, but there's a North Riding and no South Riding - same thing through 90 degrees.

I thought I had posted earlier - the SE4 postcode is a much more realistic indicator of the Brockley area I would have thought.

Anonymous said...

Riding is an elitist sport....

Anonymous said...

Aren't parts of telegraph hill also Brockley? We live on Reservoir Road - also has an SE4 postcode

Anonymous said...

This is all fairly banal stuff...........

........Pffff..........


........anyone seen Avatar?

Monkeyboy said...

Apparently I'm north brockley, this annoys me and I don't know why.

West Korean said...

Goes without saying that all four points of the compass should be recognised.

BCY said...

@West Korean - Indeed!

BCY

drakefell debaser said...

Lewisham can be East Brockley for now. In time Sheerness will take its place but that is a few years down the line.

Anonymous said...

We are on Wallbutton Road and have been cut off from Brockley!! Please can you let us back in?? we are in SE4 and go to the Broca!!

Brockley Nick said...

Wow, Wallbutton Road's SE4 too? So Telegraph Hill really is Brockley. I knew it!

Anonymous said...

"Love the random labelling of stations on these maps - Honor Oak Park?" Tamsin

Sad to say, but I reported this to Tele Atlas (supplier of Google Maps) about two months ago. Received an acknowledgement, but no action taken. Then tonight I found on the AA route map planner that SE4 1SS is also in Honor Oak Park.

We need a campaign to recognise Brockley!

Anonymous said...

Where is East Brockley?

Anonymous said...

brockley doesn't extend to deals gateway/greenwich high road or across lewisham way. Are you trying to wipe out Deptford completely? I agree with tamsin re: parts of SE4 telegraph hill. This same issue has arisen in East dulwich where parts of "bellenden area" are in SE15 but so close to east dulwich station and lordship lane so are considered ED but actually peckham.

for the sake of the blog/inclusion in discussion I don't think deptford people will complain

The Cat Man said...

Why is central brockley actually in the east? Shouldn't it be East Brockley?

Tamsin said...

Forget compass points, think in concentric rings, inner Brockley, outer Brockley, beyond the Pale. Coulgate Street is the centre of the universe and work outwards from there.

On Maps - is anyone listening to the series this week on radio 4, late afternoon. I caught one of them and was enchanted by the idea of a cake circle. This chap, who somewhere in North London (boo, hiss!) drew a compass circle around his home on an OS map and, taking 50 points on the circumference, is each week walking in that area and knocking on doors until one is opened to him whereupon he will offer a homemade cake with the explanation, you are on my cake circle! Brilliant...

Monkeyboy said...

According to this map Brockley has a legal right to subsume Crofton Park. Perhaps we could ask the BrocSoc Solicitors? they seem to specialise in lost causes. Although apparently I live on Deptford Common.

drakefell debaser said...

I think historically most of what we know as Brockley and New Cross was considered Deptford which is why we have Deptford Town Hall on New Cross Rd. I am no Dr Starkey though so could be wrong.

Monkeyboy said...

Hang on, this means that Deptfordians may stake a claim? I'm manning the baricades.

Anonymous said...

Nick I'm absolutely horrified you include Telegraph Hill under the Brockley umbrella. How could you?! Brockley is full of well-meaning middle class commuters. Telegraph Hill inhabitants are eccentric communists who enjoy a good view. Let's not mix the two - it's like oil and water - one is obviously above the other.

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

Anon yesterday at 15.56.

Both sides of Tyrwhitt Road are in SE4 - believe me I should know.

Quite a lot of the odd side however and some of the even is in Ladywell - Ward wise

Ute Sue and the other bloke are my councillors.

TM again said...

Having looked at the Map again, I'd say Central Brockley is East Brockley and Crofton Park is South Brockley.

Crofton Park was only invented by the Railway Company so their station had name.

Crofton Parker said...

It should also be firmly stated that Crofton Park is in fact the true historic Brockley, and that everyone else just latched on to a good thing, and then when the rail station way up north was given the name, everyone forgot the Truth. Here was where the ancient Brockley Hall stood, here was where the ancient Brockley Footpath crossed (and which still exists and which is very handy for zooming over the hill to FC Sopers). I would guess this being the historic heart of the place explains why we true Brockleyites still have the best version of a high street the area has to offer. The rest of you merely cling to our coat tails.

BTW a first-ever in the pub last night - colleague to whom I had not even extolled the glories of the area, and who lives in Herts, said he was thinking of moving to the area once the ELL opens. To Telegraph Hill area, but I will work on him. Never happened to me before.

Brockley Nick said...

@Anon - be that as it may, they do have the view. And Tamsin, of course.

Anonymous said...

Tamsin, an ecentric communist?

Tamsin said...

Of course he should go to Telegraph Hill, if he is eccentric, or communist, or likes wonderful views, what my mother used to call a "good serious hill" to walk up and a fantastic Festival. Worried about where you were talking to him though - we only have pubs on our borders.

Nice map, Monkeyboy, and shows the county boundary beautifully. According to the map framed above the computer where I am working now everywhere east of that boundary is, of course, in the Hundred of Blackheath. And CP is right. On this map Brockley and Brockley Green are way south - near what must be Blythe Hill.

I will see if I can find it on line to give a link.

Headhunter said...

On the subject of Honor Oak vs Brockley, my Nokia phone GPS tells me that my home on Manor Avenue is in Honor Oak Park.... Someone made a boo boo with these mapping systems it seems...

Tamsin said...

Got the link - to a not very good reproduction of it - here here

Crofton Parker said...

What a lovely old map Tamsin!

The amazing thing was, I was talking to the guy who suddenly launched into his plans to move to Tele Hill in a pub in Wapping. He had no reason to even be thinking of Brockley, and yet it and the ELL had infiltrated his consciousness. I was amazed.

Actually come to think of it the lack of pubs in Telegraph Hill will be enough to put him off and steer him towards the glories of the One True Brocks.

Headhunter said...

Fascinating map, although I can't quite see enough to work out what is where. What's this "The Hundred of...." business? Is it a hundred acres or something? Equivalent of the current Borough?

drakefell debaser said...

Pubs near Telegraph Hill:

The Telegraph
Skeehans
Montague Arms
Hobgoblin

How many do you need?

Monkeyboy said...

well according to this map “if you head down here long enough you get to dover” you just wait ‘till the ELL reopens

Anonymous said...

Crofton Parker - He may be the first one to move in but he won't be the last. Make no mistake, the invasion of Brockley is in the post and it's largely being carried on the tracks of the the new East London Line. They're coming and nothing will stop them.

Anonymous said...

Crofton Parker - He may be the first one to move in but he won't be the last. Make no mistake, the invasion of Brockley is in the post and it's largely being carried on the tracks of the the new East London Line. They're coming and nothing will stop them.

Tamsin said...

@DD "near" is the operative word. And there's one down Shardeloes, or is it Malpas, and the Wickham isn't far away. But they are all on the borders, as I said, nothing truly central until the Bold Vision cafe opens and get's itself a licence.

@HH I'm pretty sure that a "Hundred" was an administrative area, but much more than 100 acres. I agree, fascinating. What I have just for the first time noticed gazing at our framed one is that opposite Woolwich there is part of Kent on the north shore of the Thames!

Looking at the current OS to think of how they overlay, the name "Brockley" is actually right by Crofton Park station - and that's 1999.

Tamsin said...

@Monkeyboy. That is really rather sweet. I like "Millennium Dome Thing-y". And it reminds me I have yet to visit the Brixton Windmil.

Monkeyboy said...

the OS map I linked to from 18something also places Brockley over CP. Thats where the manor house was? All a bit academic, the new Brocklyites have sent the gunboats, sundried tomatoes, rocket leaves and single estate olive oil as far as the South Circular. Beyond which, I'm told, are dragons and Croydon.

Pete said...

Some info on hundreds here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_(county_subdivision)

Headhunter said...

I took a taxi from somewhere out by Brixton once, I told the driver to take me to Brockley, SE4 and asked if he knew where it was, he said yes but took me to Crofton Park. When I said he needed to head north he swore he was in Brockley and told me that I lived in New Cross and that he would have to charg me extra as I had told him Brockley. I had to make him get his road map out and show him Brockley station and SE4 on the map.

Anonymous said...

I notice from the lower of Tamsin's maps that the area around Lewisham Station is known as 'Loampit Hole'..

Danja said...

If you only annex Wilde Garlicke Hille, this bit of ELL effect slips out of Brockley - expand the map to annex the whole of New Cross

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/house-and-home/property/private-viewing-pick-of-the-property-market-1683875.html?action=Popup&ino=3

Tamsin said...

Loampit Hole is "North Brockley" - Lewisham Station is further south - where the road crosses the river.

Danja said...

Yes, great map, Tamsin.

It actually says Loom Pit Hole

Brockley Kate said...

URGENT COMMUNIQUE: A DIKTAT FROM THE BROCKLEYCENTRAL ORGANISING COMMITTEE

Brockley Kate wishes it to be known that she renounces Brockley Nick's liberal revisionism. Central Brockley = the conservation area, as any fule kno. North Brockley = St Johns, West Brockley = Telegraph Hill + south of Drakefell Road, East Brockley = Ladywell, and South Brockley = Crofton Park and Honor Oak Park. This is the true picture of Greater Brockley! BK urges BN to recant.

Monkeyboy said...

At last some dissension in the polit bureau. Watch it Comrade Kate, Nick might get all Stalin on your ass! The gulags of Penge await.

Sevenoakser said...

Molesworth! Had forgotten about him.

former regular poster said...

lol@brockleykate's post

oryx said...

Far from meriting expulsion to the gulags of Penge, Brockley Kate's inclusion of South Brockley is very welcome!

I'm at the very tip of 'South Brockley' but still SE4. Being a bit of a local history afficionado, the person who said the original Brockley was around Crofton Park (with Brockley Hall being an old manor, and the Jack being an ancient highwayman's inn) is spot-on.

Anonymous said...

What an utterly pointless and decisive exercise

westsider said...

Pointless and decisive at the same time?! you're cool

David said...

@BN & BK

Are we the Judean People's Front or the People's Front of Judea this week?

maxink said...

And Life of Brian can be seen tomorrow on a big screen at the reopening St Swithun's Church Hall.


That's Outer Brockley to stay on topic.

Monkeyboy said...

Outer brockley? Kind of like the green belt? I must say I'm loving this new assertive Brockley expansionism, the Roman empire started like this. Nick, embrace your inner ceaser

max said...

Yes MB, we're all Outer Brockley now, even Australia.
By the way, Life of Brian is followed by Hot Fuzz, that is the greatest film on the danger of localism and conservationism, another hot topic.

Anonymous said...

Will that mean St Swithun's is the only Cinema in the Borough of Lewisham.

PS Easter Parade is also being shown.

Tamsin said...

Ah, haven't caught up with Hot Fuzz yet - and want to watch it sometime - where, on the cake circile of Outer Brockley - is St Swithun's.

On the matter of films - in seriously outer Brockley, i.e. the Broadway Theatre Catford, on 18th April at 3pm there is a big screen showing of "The General" with Buster Keaton, with a live accompaniment from their fully restored cinema organ - you know, type on which you can have all sound effects from an elephant trumpeting to the whisper of a butterfly's wing.

maxink said...

Great, must catch the General at the Broadway.

St Swithun's is on Hither Green Lane, and the Hall is on the back of the Church on St Swithun's Road.

Anonymous said...

Sunday 18th April 3pm, Tickets £6 to £10.

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