The Standard: "East London line delivers property boom"

The Standard says it, so it must be true. Though the evidence presented is the less than convincing testimonial of local agents Rocodells who say that a flat that sold in Avignon Road recently for £250K would probably have only fetched £230K two years ago, honest.

Thanks to Crofton Park Ranger who tipped us off yesterday and to Headhunter who already posted the link - what sounds suspiciously like a Brockley Central reader has waded in to the comments section, to reassure any prospective buyers that the East London Line is rubbish after all.

75 comments:

b. said...

hahahahaah that comment is definitely someone we've heard before!

Headhunter said...

I used the ELL for the 1st time on Sat night to get to Shoreditch for a night out. Have to say it was a pleasure to use - Tube like, yet wide and spacious. If I'm ever going up that way again, I'll be sure to use it, however most of the time I'm more interested in getting to Charing Cross. I tried to use it to get back from Waterloo on Sun but the Jubilee Line was down... Ho hum.

I have to say though, Shoreditch as a destination for a night out os o-v-e-r. The hordes have discovered it, the innovative, if narcissistic mejia crowd has increasingly moved out and the Essex chav on a hen night complete with fairy wings and L plate has taken over

Headhunter said...

...The sentiment in the comment below the article is about right though, just look at the wording of the ES article "previously isolated areas"! What a load of cr@p!

Anonymous said...

two things - answer this honestly- if Shoreditch as a creative, vibrant, artsy destination is over, name the London location that has replaced it?


So lets put to bed that myth.

And as a potentially interesting aside - Foxtons have a house on St Asaph road westside (3 beds) for 515K - now if you look at sold house prices on that road that's about 100k above anything that has ever sold there. Maybe it won't sell but perhaps this is a sign that ceilings are going to be broken.

Brockley Nick said...

@Anon - re: Shoreditch, I agree with you - however, the argument goes that Dalston and possibly Deptford are the new Shoreditch.

Anonymous said...

Yeah but Nick, they are so not - 5 minutes walking the streets of each area and that argument is knocked out of the ground for six. People may want it to be the case but that's not based on hard evidence.

Brockley Kate said...

Argh, will someone PLEASE get Lou off that article before he damages my property price?!

Brockley Nick said...

Agreed, but then as soon as it actually becomes fact, it is "over".

To be fair to Deptford, there is genuinely a lot going on...

lb said...

Dalston has been the new somewhere-or-other for a few years now. The last time I went there it was all boarded-up furniture warehouses (that bit of London was once the centre of the furniture trade, fact fans) and the occasional drive-by but I understand it is now full of bars.

Deptford is pretty grim-looking, has semi-derelict areas and usually smells strongly of urine most mornings - yeah, pretty much exactly like Shoreditch in that regard. Why people feel the need to have a night out in these places is beyond me (and yes, Shoreditch is even worse since half of London has descended on it).

Anonymous said...

Nick - I seriously can't see Dalston or Deptford becoming more the new Shoreditch for years and years if at all. People have been telling me Deptford is on the change for over 10 years and I see little difference. It's place in the London canon is much more secure than many people would like you to think.

The key is this - the people who are saying all this are not in the In crowd.

Anonymous said...

Perils of doing this on the quiet......."Shoreditch's place in the london canon..."

Headhunter said...

When places become obvious destinations like Shoreditch with lots of over hyped destinations, they're already over. Dalston and Deptford may, to the naked eye, appear to have nowhere to go, be boarded up and smell of urine but I think you simply have to be in the know.

I'm too old to be in the know nowadays, but I hear that there are lots of secret, hideaway type party places. It's no longer about the big, super club a la 1990s anymore, it's all about places like the Rivoli Ballroom, which only the "right" people know about.

Once areas become mainstream, rents rise and places can only survive by appealing to the masses rather than specific audiences.

Node said...

@anon 15.11

Oh and you are the in crowd are you?
I remember both Shoreditch and Dalston ten years ago. Dalston and Deptford do really have that vibe that Shoreditch had. Dalston in particular has lots of really good bars, and because of the Turkish Community it's unlikely to be swamped by lots of overpriced clubs and gastro pubs. Bardens Boudoir has been a hipsters hang out for several years now and 'The Alibi' has just been opened by a formally Shoreditch based Arts collective.

The last thing I want Dalston and Deptford to be labled is cool.

As Nick says, as soon as it's officially cool, it's over.

Anonymous said...

Sure HH but you're assuming that Shoreditch has run out of secret hideaway places - it hasn't. It'ss just it's also got alot of mainstream places where we can also go.

And lets not forget that cool people can go to other places in London too - it's just that if it came down to a fight - Shoreditch is still the only real heavy weight in the division.

Anonymous said...

Well Node - Dalston has been cool for years so I guess it must be over.

Anonymous said...

I think the original suggestion that Shoreditch is 'over' is somewhat exaggerated.

Anonymous said...

Don't worry about the comment under the article - people rarely read more than 3 lines.

Perhaps a few of us could 'big up' Brockley on it though, as one person (calling themselves Lou as some sort of ironic tribute, presumably?) has already done.

lacking direction said...

Regrettably I am not achingly cool, neither to I want to encounter hen parties.

Where in Hoxton and Shoreditch should I be visiting, to shop, to eat, to drink, to look at Art in any of its forms? It's not an area I know at all, though I've done a couple of wanders up and around Brick Lane and Spitalfields Market.

lb said...

"Dalston and Deptford may, to the naked eye, appear to have nowhere to go, be boarded up and smell of urine but I think you simply have to be in the know"

Yes, yes, I know, and indeed have been to parties, or bars or whatever you want to call them, in these places. But as I said, when you step outside the club, it's still ill-lit, dangerous and smells of wee, no matter how fashionable things may appear inside. I just can't be bothered with places like that any more - it seemed all very interesting and urban when I was a fresh-faced youth from the provinces, but no longer.

Monkeyboy said...

My old landlord told me that Acton was the 'new' Covent Garden.....It wasn't

lb said...

"Where in Hoxton and Shoreditch should I be visiting, to shop, to eat, to drink, to look at Art in any of its forms"

It's barely worth it.

Years ago I read that a bar called "dreambagsjaguarshoes" was the epicentre of Hoxton's drinking scene. I racked my brain for a bit and then realised that I'd been in there a few months before. It was a nondescript couple of rooms with lager and plain concrete walls. These places often seem a lot less appealing if you haven't been told in advance that they're fashionable.

The Geffrye Museum is well worth a visit though.

Dag said...

Lacking Direction,try the Squid and Fart pub on a Monday night. You'll have to submit to having one eyebrow shaved off to get in (to fit in with the one-lobrow scene, obviously) but it's well weapon.
Other than that Shoreditch is shit. It's all about Walford these day. Try the Rn'R club.

Anonymous said...

Anyone else think that this is a sign!!!!

http://www.foxtons.co.uk/property-for-sale-in-brockley/chpk0598521

NXG_Resident said...

Deptford still needs a lot of regeneration to give it the allure for the ITterati.

But with the station works finally happening (bringing the old station yard use once again), the big Griffin Square project well underway and a whole host of interesting venues already attracting the masses (Laban and Deptford Project anyone?), Deptford has a fighting chance to become Time Out London's next bedfellow.

Anonymous said...

the recent tree planting probably adds 50 grand at least....

Headhunter said...

Not sure that Foxton's ad is a sign, they've been selling stuff in Brockley for a few years since they opened the Lordship Lane branch. It's waaaaay overpriced though. Last year a full 3 storey house + basement sold on Manor Ave for not much more than that! Admittedly it needed work, but it had 5 bedrooms and is on a lovely street in the cons area. That place is just a 3 bed terrace - £515k?? You're 'aving a larf!

Anonymous said...

is what I'm saying. It's a sign the ELL has just put 100k on your house price!!!!!!

Headhunter said...

£100k over? More like £200k! A house like that wouldn't go for much more than £300k. OK it's nice inside, £320k at a push.

Anonymous said...

Well if you look at free house prices you'll see that houses have sold for over 400k on that road so I have to disagree. However 515 is a new high water mark.

(it's three beds but I think there is a loft conversion that is not technically a bedroom)

Anonymous said...

http://www.nethouseprices.com/

see what your neighbour paid...

Headhunter said...

Over £400k? Really? I'll have to take a look

Brockley Kate said...

Oh Christ, have Foxtons started taking an interest? It's time to get out ...

Headhunter said...

Foxton's have been taking an interest since about 2007 or 2008 when they opened the Lordship Lane branch. There was a rash of Foxton's signs across Brockley and Telegraph Hill when they opened as they offered 0% commission deals just to ge in on the action

Brockley Kiwi said...

Put your hands in th bucket if you hate Foxtons.

They represent everything wrong with estate agents ... In my opinion.

Matt-Z said...

I do hate Foxton's. From the look of their advert for the house on St Asaph's we all need to do is cover our entire garden with decking and paint the insides in brilliant white and the prices will shoot up.

Anonymous said...

to be fair, every property programme on tv has been telling us that for years....

Anonymous said...

Anyone who pays £515k for that house is dumb dumb dumb.

Anonymous said...

or that just the price of things now?

Monkeyboy said...

If you tot up the cost of materials, design and labour no house is 'worth' more than a few tens of thousands. If someone is willing to fork out £550k+ then that's what it's worth, Capitalism in all it's glory. I'm stating the bleedin obvious...obviously.

mintness said...

The ironic thing, I suppose, is that a localised house price bubble in Brockley will ultimately kill an awful lot of what makes it such a unique place to live. Just imagine the place filled with the kind of idiots who can and will pay £500k+ for an average residence on an average street. It's not pretty.

NXG_Resident said...

But surely no sane mortgage lender will authorise lending that kind of money on a house which is massively overpriced?

I don't get it!

toil and trouble said...

If there is a bubble, soon enough it will do what all bubbles do.

Ed said...

We're all millionaires!

Anonymous said...

The same house in East Dulwich is £625k.

Pete said...

It depends if it's a bubble or if Brockley is entering a new phase in its life. If the number of people with high salaries living here (and wanting to live here) continues to increase these people will push house prices up and they will stay up.

Why the ELL should be the cause of this is a bit of a mystery but you can't dispute that the local shops and bars have certainly improved a great deal in the last three years.

Anonymous said...

Did someone just use sane and mortgage lender in the same sentence?

Hugh said...

Great time to be selling.

;)

Anonymous said...

YAWN!!!

Tamsin said...

Quite agree with Mintness - and what various people have been expressing concern about for ages - the gradual slide into too much gentrification.

I might be doing them a disservice but can you imagine anything as much fun and so culturally diverse as the Hilly Fields Fayre happening in Dulwich?

And NXG resident, mortgage lenders have spectacularly shown themselves in the past not to be sane. And they never will be while you have performance linked commission and performance is measured simply by the £££ signs rather than how many loans do not turn bad.

drakefell debaser said...

Actually, all lenders rely on a surveyor to ascertain the property value before they offer any form of loan.
So, if the house on whatever street is overpriced then that will become apparent soon enough. Check the net house price website in a couple of months to find out.

NXG_Resident said...

Thanks for clarifying my brief point Drakefell.

I know quite a few people who have had their mortgage lenders tell them that the properties that they were intending to buy were not worth the estate agents/sellers valuation.

Headhunter said...

Banks won't lend with anywhere near the recklessness that they used to so that will put a lid on prices to a certain extent. 1st time buyers need £40/50k+ deposit to buy. Most pundits seem to think that prices will be flat through 2010.

Anonymous said...

Great, those of us who've been renting in the area for 10 years and saving sensibly will now never be able to buy here. Still, I suppose that's what you 'gentrifiers' are all about, keeping the riff raff out.

Welcome to 2010 said...

Ten years ago, you could have got a 100% mortgage and property prices in Brockley were less than half what they are now.

Anonymous said...

" Still, I suppose that's what you 'gentrifiers' are all about, keeping the riff raff out."

Well yeah, who wants riff raff in the neighbourhood?

Anonymous said...

Yeah, some of us weren't sold on the idea of 100% mortgages, wonder why.... Still, I suppose we're better off than the mugs who did do that.

Anonymous said...

@10:51...what are you banging on about? what a 'gentrifier'? Brockley is still one of the more affordable areas in London. If it's too gentrified for your tastes (whatever that means) you could always try elsewhere. I really don't get this idea that you can somehow freeze an area by force. We have better transport (good) so the area is more popular to prices go up. If you weant to force prices down, close the rail links and ruin the schools - clearly a stupid idea. I rented for about ten years before buying somewhere and when i got my first place it wasn't in the area i wanted or particularly impressive, that is most peoples experience, get over it.

Anonymous said...

"Well yeah, who wants riff raff in the neighbourhood?"

Certainly no one on this blog, that's why you're trying to turn Brockley into Dulwich/Clapham/Hampstead - no matter how much you say you're not.

Anonymous said...

Your starting to sound mental now.

drakefell debaser said...

Not sure who the ‘mugs’ are in your example anon but, if you took a 100% mortgage 10 years ago and have since seen your property value double then you have done alright by most standards.

If you missed the boat fine, but no need to be bitter about it.

Anonymous said...

I would love Brockley to turn into Hampstead.

Headhunter said...

If you took out a 100% mortgage in Brockley 10 years ago, far from being up the creek, you'd be laughing now. You'd have paid nearly half the mortgage off (assuming full repayment over 25 years) and your property would be probably double in value. The people you need to pity are perhaps those who bought in 07 or 08 at the limit of their abilities and then lost their jobs, although to be honest prices in Brockers don't seem to have dropped much from the peak. Roll on gentrification.

Brockley Dogging Society said...

The BDS have been trying to turn Hilly Fields into Hampstead Heath for years. Have to say though that the play ground is a quantum leap forward in terms of possibilities, the hampstead society are sending a working group to see if they can replicate up north. We've had to post a warning about the sand pit though, jim pocked up some nasty abbrasions when going hammer and tongs with Big Lil.

Worried said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Tamsin said...

There are significant social problems caused by house price inflation over the past being significantly greater than the RPI or average earnings inflation. Supply and demand had a lot to do with it but it seems to me (and bourne out by a documentary a few years back) that the process was given a huge boost by Maggie Thatcher's deregulation of financial services. Mortgage lenders were no longer tied to the usefully cautious formula of so many times salary/income and, chasing business with desperate borrowers, went down the 100% mortgage and self-certification route - to their gain and everyone else's detriment.

And who pays the surveyors? OK, no-one will authorise a mortgage on a grossly over-priced property but equally you wont rock the boat too much by adversely turning down application after application when prices creep upwards - driven by estate agents on commission having a try-on. So house prices rise even though wages, out of which the mortgage repayments are made, fall or are static.

Anonymous said...

Not to boast but... having bought a property 10 years in another part of Lewisahm its value is said to have increased almost threefold.

Even a neighbour who bought at the height of the market in 2007 has seen an increase of about £50k.

Now Then said...

Which was nice. In what sense could that possibly not be boasting Anon?.

Now Then said...

Not that I'm against boasting per se but tell it like it is. An example of not boasting might be 'I bought a dilapidated pile thinking to make it over quickly and make a bit in rent as a HMO but without certification. I bodged the electrics myself (something I'm particularly rubbish at) and it burned down. Now both my neighbours are suing me.'

Anonymous said...

And the insurance is invalid?

Now Then said...

Erm yes Anon 14:12, the exemplary insurance was exemplarily invalidated by the exemplary stupidity of the uncertified electrics. An example you see. Of not boasting.

Now Then said...

A bit whimsical maybe, for a property values thread. I'll get my quote.

HappyBrockers said...

So some of us own, and some of us rent, some of us may buy, and some of us may sell. Aren't we all so lucky to have a roof over our heads.
Also, fantastic news that we can all explore new areas on the ELL, I love a good adventure.

Brockley Nick said...

I love the HappyBrockers philosophy. Can you be this site's official guru please?

Anonymous said...

Hooray for Happy Brockers. Let the sunshine in. But are you 'worried' on a moodswing.

Monkeyboy with sore head said...

For the sake of balance can we appoint Lou to be vice guru?

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