Network Rail says no to more Ladywell trains

The 2010 London and the South East Rail Utilisation Strategy Consultation document is out!

Among the many highlights is a little passage about the possibility of increasing trains from Charing X to Ladywell and beyond. Basically, there isn't one.

They say:

There will be no spare capacity (following the Thameslink Programme) over the Ladywell–London Bridge–Charing Cross route. This option is therefore not operationally viable without additional tracks in this area and additional platforms in Central London... This option [also] misses out the key demand drivers of Haywards Heath, Gatwick Airport and East Croydon, so does not respond to the passenger demand based gap.

Conclusion: This option is not recommended due to high cost, disbenefits created, not solving the capacity problem and not serving the key demand drivers.

Merry Christmas, from everyone at Network Rail!

33 comments:

mintness said...

"Disbenefits". Now there's a word to warm the heart.

Sue said...

Well, there's always the possibility of a Bakerloo line extension via Ladywell in, er about 25 years time. Just keep reminding Boris/ any other Tories who hold the purse strings that it could provide an extra link to Bromley . . .

Tamsin said...

Haven't read the article yet - sorry - but from the summary and the refernce to "key demand drivers of ... Gatwick Airport an East Croydon" do we stand a chance of getting the Charing Cross service back for the link through HOP, Brockley and NXG?

I suspect not.

Anonymous said...

may i suggest to try reading the article first....?

patrick1971 said...

Do we really need more capacity at Ladywell to Charing Cross, though? I catch the 0754 every morning and always get a seat. Even if I leave it later and get the 0814, I not infrequently get a seat. And if I do have to stand, I have a lot of space about me.

When I used to get the train from Deptford in the mornings, we were hemmed in like sardines and you often couldn't even read a book, you were so crammed in.

The Ladywell-Cannon Street services are busier, I admit, but still nothing like what I used to experience at Deptford.

I admit greater frequency would be good, but I think the Hayes line is okay for capacity really, especially when compared to other lines locally.

Tamsin said...

Yes, but it's 10MB - I think I might wait until I get into work and have a lunchbreak to download it on a slightly more efficient computer.

@Patrick - Ah, the Hayes line, I remember it well. Do they still announce it as the "mid Kent line to Hayes"? And the linked anomoloy of the "Mid Kent Tavern" bang slap in the middle of Lewisham where the DLR station now is...

Anonymous said...

i remember 2 an hr from ladywell so 4 an hr is awesome. and there are plenty of fast to lon bri too. its a good service i think

Anonymous said...

Agreed with all the above, we don't really need any more trains here and enjoy the service we already have, so why all the fuss?

Ladywell is Brockley's best kept secret, let's keep it that way and let the scrotes use the main station.

Anonymous said...

Oh perhaps they save to increase the links with the Wharf

JPMorgan buys Lehman’s former London HQ
US investment bank commits extra £500m to Canary Wharf

Anonymous said...

Lady-who?

Anonymous said...

A few years ago the RUS was suggesting that all Hayes trains terminate at Cannon Street.

One of the most significant changes is the number of people switching to the DLR at Lewisham.

But....have the number of trains by-passing Lewisham increased?




Does the document say where

Headhunter said...

"Ladywell is Brockley's best kept secret, let's keep it that way and let the scrotes use the main station."

Unfortunately us "scrotes" in north Brockley pretty much have to use Brockley station as Ladywell is a good 20+ minute walk away. I like a good walk but from Manor Ave to Ladywell and back every day simply to catch a train could rapidly get a bit dull...

Anonymous said...

I like the trend here of people moving to an area and then trying to make the train services (and other services, shops etc.) come to them!

I may just be old fashioned but when I move house I make sure I'm near everything I'm likely to need. I just find that it's easier to move me than to move the entire transport infrastructure.

Brockley Nick said...

"I like the trend here of people moving to an area and then trying to make the train services (and other services, shops etc.) come to them!"

Who's doing that?

Headhunter said...

"I like the trend here of people moving to an area and then trying to make the train services (and other services, shops etc.) come to them!"

That's just the thing, when I moved here there were trains direct to Charing X, now there aren't.

Lou Baker said...

When I moved here there were 6 trains an hour to London Bridge and evening ones to Charing Cross.

Now there aren't.

But, thank the Lord, it's now easier to get to Penge.

Anonymous said...

That's right Lou - Penge. Home to all the ad agencies, new media companies, buzzing markets and trendy shops, cool clubs, bars and great restaurants.
Oh no wait - that's Shoreditch isn't it? I wonder how we'd get there from Brockley?

Not you though Lou - you're not invited. I hear the Kings Road has a lovely Starbucks though and you might see a genuine punk rocker!

Headhunter said...

When I lived in Catford from 00-02, just about every train out of Charing Cross in the evenings and weekends stopped at New Cross, now barely any do. But, as you say, we're better connected to Penge....

Anonymous said...

Don't you live near St. John's station Headhunter?

Lou Baker said...

@anon

I'm glad you can get to Shoreditch to your trendy new media colleagues. Most people just want to get to the City and West End to do proper jobs.

Tamsin said...

Well we got signficant thousands of signatures to the petition on losing the Charing Cross evening service and I've sent the link to the RUS consultation to those knowledgable people in Forest Hill who led the campaign last December so maybe a case can be made for getting that off peak and weekend service restored.

If anyone wants to get involved the contact addresses are on the old thread.

Anonymous said...

Their jobs in the West End? That they presumably only did in the evenings and at weekends since that's when the trains ran?
Change at Canada Water for the city or get the London Bridge train. Or even walk from Shoreditch.

Headhunter said...

I don't really live near St Johns... I suppose it's a 15 min walk away, as is New cross. Brockley is definitely most convenient...

Anonymous said...

Lou stop whining, you lost the argument some time ago.

Anonymous said...

15 minutes Headhunter? From Manor Avenue? Are you terribly overweight?

reservoir said...

I don't want to sound naive but I always thought that we will have the train to charin cross back once London Bridge is finished

max said...

"I'm glad you can get to Shoreditch to your trendy new media colleagues. Most people just want to get to the City and West End to do proper jobs."

Brilliant! Lou's Christmas message. I can easily see it written in French on a little card pinned on a tree?

For me Ladywell is strictly for leisure, I love it and use it only when I have time at hand and I'm going shopping or just around town. It's normally quite a wait for the train but a pleasurable one.

Tamsin said...

@ Anon 16.03 You might not have noticed it but there is a whole theatre industry out there working in the evenings at at weekends (and not just the stars who catch their through trains back to the South Coast or the home counties, but the stage-hands, bouncers, booking staff, etc. etc.). Indeed the crew and cast of Phantom of the Opera did their own petition on the withdrawal of the direct Charing X trains. There is also concern cutting back on direct services to Charing Cross makes it marginally less likely for people on the lines affected to go out to the theatre.

Plus those who work in Central London pubs and restaurants.

@ reservoir We might get it back, but only if people jump up and down and shout about it. Much easier for the rail companies not to bother.

Anonymous said...

Tamsin, I have actually 'noticed it' thanks.
However, I don't think those are the 'proper jobs' Laughing Lou was referring to. I would imagine he thinks actors are workshy pansies.
I would be as happy as anyone to see the Charing X trains reinstated and I did sign the petition - I was really just pointing out the holes in Lou's argument.

Lou Baker said...

@anon

I have nothing against actors. If they work hard and pay their taxes fair play to them. In fact I have nothing against anyone if they work hard and pay their taxes. Even bankers.

The three exceptions are estate agents - a complete waste of space. Railway workers - see above, but largely incompetent too. And trendy new medja types who are responsible for many of the world's ills.

New Media fish said...

And trendy new medja types who are responsible for many of the world's ills.

So Lou, I've taken your bait - please elaborate!

Vince Cable is unstable said...

"...let the scrotes use the main station."

There are mean spirited people around here. Must be a Tory.

Brockley Nick said...

I'm not even sure what the "main station" is supposed to be (Lewisham? Brockley?).

If you live in Ladywell, Ladywell IS the main station.

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