Sainsbury's granted planning permission on Lewisham Way

Sainsbury's has been granted planning permission to open a new high-street branch at 33-35 Lewisham Way, opposite Goldsmiths. The decision, which was passed with the casting vote of the Chair, has been met with some local oppposition, including Brockley ward Green Councillor, Darren Johnson, who said:

"I am terribly disappointed that planning permission has been given. It’s a totally unsuitable site for a supermarket. There’s no proper delivery area and it will just mean delivery lorries clogging up the bus lane and causing traffic chaos. Local businesses are also very worried about the impact of another big supermarket chain, understood to be Sainsbury’s, coming to Lewisham Way.”
“Because it is opposite Goldsmiths College I expect they thing they will do well out of student trade. But they could be in for a shock – students may decide to boycott Sainsbury’s in favour of local businesses.”
Similar complaints were made when Tesco opened its Metro store on Lewisham Way in 2007, but so-far, there has not been business displacement.

Last year, Sainsbury's confirmed its interest in opening in Brockley.

Full disclosure: My employer, Edelman, has Sainsbury's as one of its clients.

118 comments:

Matt-Z said...

That's the old MB Motors site. Nobody's known what to do with it for years. Goldsmith's leased it for a while and used it for art shows etc.

There used to be off street access to the rear next to what was Jewson's, but it's been built on and is now tiny flats. Access will certainly be a problem, unless they use small vans and drop the kerb into the forecourt.

Ross said...

there is vaguely some sort of access at the back but not for deliveries of their scale. i can't comprehend how they're going to do it.
absolutely mind boggling decision by the council.

Lou Baker said...

More rubbish from Planet Greens.

Of course students won't boycott it. We keep hearing how little money students have. They'll go to the supermarket because it's cheaper.

Maybe a few students could get part time jobs there too.

So long as there are restrictions on delivery hours (to avoid peak hours) as part of the plan there is no issue here.

Anonymous said...

When I was a student living near a sainsburys I certainly didn't boycott them in favour of local rubbish.

What a load of mung crap.

Taste The Difference said...

If they sell that Lemon Curd yogurt I'm in.

Anonymous said...

The little shop just by the Marquis of Granby has some great feta and spinach triangles, shame for that if this really harms its business.

Particularly as the Sainsburys supermarket in New Cross is one of the worst supermarkets I think I've ever been to.

Brockley Ben said...

I have a new colleague - a recent student - who's just moved in around the corner from there. One of the first things he asked me when he learned that I lived in the area was whether there were alternative supermarkets to Sainsbury's, which he considered too expensive. So I agree our concillor friend is misguided if he thinks students are going to boycott value in favour of quality.

Doesn't mean I'm favour of this, however. That stretch of road suffers from peak traffic already and deliveries are going to cause chaos. Also, is the main Sainsbury's really too far for locals to walk? Google says it's a six-minute walk. And Google is a notoriously slow walker. How much convenience do we really need?

Tamsin said...

Students might boycott as a matter of principle. On cost there's Deptford market nearby and the main Sainsbury's store in NXG. I believe the Students' Union (which I know is not necessarily representative of the whole student body) and some lecturers were vocal in their opposition to this development in support of the small business community that expect to be badly affected.

I have also heard from the opposers that the whole planning application was pushed through with indecent (if not suspicious) haste. Some reassurance from those who might know more would be welcome.

patrick1971 said...

Re deliveries: Sainsbury's have a lot of expertise in deliveries to smaller stores (I'm assuming this will be a Sainsbury's Local format) and I'm sure they've looked into what's possible there (see their refusal to open on the west side of Brockley Station, citing access reasons). I used to work for Sainsbury's and believe me, nothing was EVER decided there without endless meetings and going into everything that could possibly go wrong.

Not that I'm necessarily supporting this development - seems a bit ridiculous when there is another store two minutes away - but they will have a plan on how to use the delivery space.

@Anon 10:24 - if you think Sainsbury's NXG is bad, try Sainsbury's Lewisham!

Anonymous said...

@patrick1971 - I already avoid that one like the plague! Like trying to shop on a rush-hour tube train

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

I suspect Sainsbury's want to open here to maintain a presence in the area when/if? the New Cross gate store is redeveloped.

There is already a off peak loading bay big enough for an artic marked on the road round the corner. The can trolley stock in up the back alley from there.

There are cheaper options in Peckham in the form of Morrisons and Lidl. I'm sure Princess Beatrice is in there all the time.

mintness said...

Particularly as the Sainsburys supermarket in New Cross is one of the worst supermarkets I think I've ever been to.

Really? Where have you ever been? I can think of three worse supermarkets within walking distance!

And of course nobody of note is going boycott a local supermarket that brings a bit of life to a pretty dismal run of the main road. Two words: mung mung. (Sorry, that should read "grow up".)

NXG_Resident said...

Yeah I'd rather have a different supermarket there, but as mintness has commented, a potential Sainsbury's tenancy would indeed brighten up a dismal stretch of road.

I just don't understand why Sainsbury's would want that site, when their main store is under a 10 minute walk away for people in the New Cross/Lewisham Way area. I'd rather the space be used by another off licence in all honesty.

NXG_Resident said...

In fact, a potential Lewisham Way store would give Sainsbury's their third in the area, if you include the petrol station outlet.

Anonymous said...

I suppose it makes a change from another bookies opening.

John said...

So students are going to boycott Sainsbury's? Where are they going to go? To some of those decent moral local shops that don't ring all purchases through the till to avoid paying tax, sell rotting veg and contraband alcohol. Save the 'holier than thou' attitude for your dinner parties.

THNick said...

Some students may boycott Sainsburys but I doubt many will on any grounds other than price. of course many may put in the effort to walk 10 minutes to the big one, which will no doubt be cheaper but that's different.

And another thumbs up for the NXG Sainsburys - worst supermarket? Is considerably better than Sainsburys in East Dulwich and Lewisham and Tesco Lewisham too.

Anonymous said...

Wish it was a Waitrose...erm, i mean, boo to big corporates. The Turkish shop on Lewisham Way near Tescos actually has more and better stuff than Tesco's anyway so anyone who shop's elsewhere is just a fool. A FOOL.

Anonymous said...

would like to have a Waitrose in Brockley. Location, the mail delivery warehouse.

Thanks in advance for agreeing with me

Anonymous said...

Seems silly to put another one in New Cross when Brockley itself is crying out for a decent supermarket (Costcutters and Co-op don't quite cut it unfortunately)

Crofton Park Ranger said...

Here is the planning appliction docs:

http://acolnet.lewisham.gov.uk/LEWIS-XSLPagesDC/acolnetcgi.exe?ACTION=UNWRAP&RIPNAME=Root.PgeDocs&TheSystemkey=62423

Tamsin said...

Sainsbury's probably want a "local" there despite having a main store in NXG in order to get more of the foot traffic. They were told (again and again) at the time that they should put the car park at the back and the supermarket at the front if they wanted to maximise local usage but it was apparently impossible to do anything other than their bog-standard out-of-town development design - car park at the front and store at the back.

Ed CPZ said...

Is the assumption that all these 'small businesses' are good?

Whilst regulation of some sort is clearly necessary the market will decide who succeeds and frankly many of the small businesses in the area aren't much good. For every cheap, friendly, family-run fresh fruit n' veg shop there may be several other businesses that really don't add to the communities they serve.

With regards access the A2 is horribly busy but presumably night deliveries are an option.

Brockley Ben said...

In what way does a Sainsbury's Local "brighten up" or "bring a bit of life" to an area? All it does it add another soulless, identikit outlet to an stretch of road that doesn't need one.

Full disclosure: I shop regularly at Sainsbury's NXG and think it's a perfectly good supermarket.

Headhunter said...

Is the big Sainsbury's 2 minutes down the road going to be redeveloped? I thought they were redeveloping the land in front, not the actual supermarket itself... Sainsbury's now has 3 supermarkets within reach of me - 1 in Lewisham shopping centre, 1 in the garage on Lewisham Way, the big 1 in New Cross and now a fourth.

We're really not badly off for supermarkets round here! We have Asda on OKR, Morrisons over in Peckham, Tesco on OKR and in Lewisham and almost 4 Sainsbury's... Not to mention a scattering of Tesco Metros... Phew!

Ed CPZ said...

I usually pop to Waitrose/M&S before leaving the wharf but these mini Sainsbury's can be quite useful and you don't generally have to check best before dates or bite your lip when goods are overpriced.

Given the option I'd take one over the Brockley Costcutter with the funny door and slow tills.

TM said...

Garage on Lewisham Way?

New one on me.

Humphry said...

Of course there has been displacement with the tesco, and so too with Sainsbury's. Displacement takes a few years to settle in.
The shop along from Sainsbury's changed its trading hours due to the negative impact of Tesco's, and its business is falling. That's early signs of displacement!
Sainsbury's should not have been allowed to open at that point for another reason. It WILL clog up cars entering the yellow junction box as it takes in deliveries - ensuring more fines are collected by Lewisham Council. Win. Win.
I call on all free citizens everywhere to boycott the Sainsbury's opposite Goldsmith's college. We shall never surreneder.

I don't expect BrockleyNick to Boycott he being in the pay of the dreaded supermarket! Leave them, Nick, stand fast with your community. Your community needs YOU. Do not take their filthy lucre!

Brockley Nick said...

@Humphry

"Of course there has been displacement with the tesco, and so too with Sainsbury's. Displacement takes a few years to settle in.
The shop along from Sainsbury's changed its trading hours due to the negative impact of Tesco's, and its business is falling. That's early signs of displacement!"

So, in four years since Tesco opened on Lewisham Way, one shop has changed its trading hours and is (according to you) struggling. Any evidence that any of this is attributable to Tesco? If Tesco had not opened, do you think one shop might have experienced some problems anyway in that four year period?

TM again said...

"its business is falling"

where down a hole?

or do you mean failing?

;-)

Anonymous said...

You miss the point if you don't know why Sainsbury would want a store so close to its own store: to prevent a Waitrose, or more likely M&S, filling the gap. This way it can trade against itself and make a profit as the other makes a loss.

Humphry said...

Nick, I can understand someone who is in receipt of the Queen's shilling finding impartiality difficult, but my view is not just based on common sense (or bias?) but the view of the owners of both the shops either side of Tesco. Full disclosure... they don't pay me for my opinion.

Anonymous said...

Headhunter, I assume you have a car? I don't so all those options you list are irrelevant.

Brockley Nick said...

@Humphry

I was trying to have a sensible discussion with you.

For your reference, my company is only employed by Sainsbury's to provide some consultancy for their CSR programme and I am not personally involved with any aspect of that work. In the interests of transparency, I declared this interest, nonetheless.

I am not going to make any comment on the desirability or otherwise of this particular plan, I was talking about Tesco. It is a fact that there has been no increase in the vacancy rate on that parade since Tesco opened there, despite all the dire warnings that accompanied its arrival.

We'll have to take your word for it that the nearby shops don't like it much, but they are still in business and good luck finding an independent high street business owner (of which I am one) who doesn't have lots of grumbles and worries.

In fact, given the vacancy rates of many local high streets, this part of Lewisham Way is unusually successful.

Anonymous said...

Nick, why didn't your client consult with the community rather than have you post this after the event?

Brockley Nick said...

@Anon

Please don't question my integrity. I have posted a news story, which was actually prompted by a press release from the Green Party, criticising the plans - I reported this quote in full. I have offered no personal view about the story or the company.

Hardly the actions of a corporate stooge.

Brockley Nick said...

PS - see my response to Humphry, above.

Humphry said...

I donlt understand what CSR is. You made the comparison that you did not see it displacing trade, offering Tesco as your example. I have spoken to the traders there and they informed me it had hurt business. Why you do not check your facts is astounding.
Why, if you are not involved in this process with your firm, can you not make known your own comments on its desirablity? Or would that be a step too far?
Why you suggest that a discussion is not sensible if it veers away from your owne cloaked desires is beyond me.

Anonymous said...

Steady the buffs! I was only asking a question. Why are you talking about stooge? You said your company was dealing with this firm.

Brockley Nick said...

@Humphry

"I donlt understand what CSR is."

Google is your friend.

"You made the comparison that you did not see it displacing trade, offering Tesco as your example. I have spoken to the traders there and they informed me it had hurt business."

Again, we only have your word for this and I don't know who you are. The fact that some traders think that it has hurt business is not the same thing as displacement - no businesses have been lost for the high street. That is the key point.

"Why you do not check your facts is astounding."

I am reporting the facts.

"Why, if you are not involved in this process with your firm, can you not make known your own comments on its desirablity? Or would that be a step too far?"

Yes, I think that would be inappropriate and I think most readers would consider it inappropriate too.

"Why you suggest that a discussion is not sensible if it veers away from your owne cloaked desires is beyond me."

I'm suggesting that a sensible discussion is one in which one party doesn't accuse the other of being a shill or having "cloaked desires"

Brockley Nick said...

@Anon 1705 - you said that "my client" "had me post this", which would make me a stooge. They did not.

Anonymous said...

http://tinyurl.com/3jua57s

Ed CPZ said...

@Humphry; the only excuse for such ignorance and divisive, error-strewn language is youth. If you are indeed an adult then you might consider behaving and communicating like one.

Humphry said...

Ed CPZ... what 'error-strewn language'? A bit divisive yourself given the perfectly reasonable assumption.

Anonymous said...

Nick.

"@Anon 1705 - you said that "my client" "had me post this", which w
ould make me a stooge. They did not."

I did not say that. This is what I said. "Nick, why didn't your client consult with the community rather than have you post this after the event?"

I assumed that this was your client, given what you posted. My apolgies.
I should have written, 'have one of us post this after the event' rather than single you out in my rushed post. I apologise if I appeared to suggest that you are in any way a stooge. That would be an unforgivable slant and a ghastly deception if true

Brockley Nick said...

Thanks ;)

So to answer your question, I don't know, but as far as I am aware, public consultations for leasing existing retail spaces on high streets aren't required nor at all common. Happy to be corrected on that.

Humphry said...

Googled but still in dark.

Definition for csr:
ČSR may refer to: "Czech Socialist Republic"

Humphry said...

Nick, Google is your friend.

Just Google "Sainsbury's and public consultation" and gawp at the hits.

TM said...

CSR - Corporate Social Responsibility.

and Humphry error strewn in terms of grammar spelling and syntax.

Headhunter said...

Anon 16:51 - You clearly don't read BC that often... I don't have a car, I have a bike!

Brockley Nick said...

@Humphry - uhuh, there are lots of public consultations for supermarket developments, of course. How many for supermarket brands moving in to existing high street space?

Humphry said...

TM, you got me puzzled.
I think it is now established (without further research)that Nick represents Sainsbury's... somewhere along the line.
Just seems quite sly.

Anonymous said...

And this is what he means...

"Britain’s third-largest supermarket chain put its contract up for pitch late last year (PAN, Dec 08) and PAN has learned that Edelman has emerged as its preferred agency after a climactic three-way shootout.
As PAN went to press Edelman had not signed a contract and Sainsbury’s would not be drawn on which agency had won the pitch. But PAN understands that Edelman UK PA managing director Alex Bigg is being lined up to lead the account, working with his colleague James Lundie.
Edelman – which has a major account with Asda-owning supermarket giant Wal-Mart in the US – will take over from four-year incumbent Fishburn Hedges (FH) on the business. Sainsbury’s is not concerned by Edelman’s Wal-Mart link."

Humphry said...

Perhaps Edelman didn't get the contract?

Deep Ear said...

I wouldn't bet on it.
Read up on "WalMart And Blogs" to understand how major players conduct online public relations strategies via the blogosphere,and can, in some instances, manipulate public (local) opinion. It is part of the company ethos of some major players.

Humphry said...

Whatever... my concern is just for the small shopkeeper, and the changing face of our community

Brockley Nick said...

@Humphry

"I think it is now established (without further research)that Nick represents Sainsbury's... somewhere along the line.
Just seems quite sly."

Well it's established that the company I work for does, yes - that was established by the article I wrote, which said so.

I don't personally represent them in any way. As I said. So that's not established, because it's not true.

Out of interest, what's the sly bit? The fact that I have a job or the fact that I run a local news website?

@Deep Ear - indulge me. What's the theory? That I moved to Brockley to spend four years of my life writing a local website, biding my time for the perfect moment, when I could at last unleash my scheme by writing an article quoting a local politician, criticising the a company that I don't work for's plans to open a shop in the area?

Must have had to bribe the Greens to write the press release and send it to me too, I suppose.

Mb said...

What's everyone doing for "The Rapture" tomoz? I'm slathering myself swarfega and hanging out on Hilly Fields.

Brockley Nick said...

I hear Sainsbury's sells rapture party packs at very reasonable prices.

Sainsbury's. For all your rapture needs.

Tomorrow: why everyone in Brockley should support Manchester City.

Aricana said...

Thanks for news update, about Sainsbueys I for one appreciate it.

Anonymous said...

Full disclosure: I'm currently eating a mung bean sandwich

gibby said...

Sorry but I have to say that Tesco Metro is ten times more useful to me than the previous incumbent whiich housed some of the ugliest furniture I've ever set eyes on. I also use the other shops on Lewisham Way so don't feel that I've defected.

Howson Road said...

As a (nearly graduated) student, if there had been a Sains Local there for the past 3 years I would have loved it.

Anonymous said...

Rejoice, I say. All this whining about 'local shops for local people', is sort of silly. It's really simple, compete or shut up shop. If anyone expects student boycotts, they really don't know modern students.

Also, leave Nick alone, his reporting of this has been a textbook case of impartiality.

Lou Baker said...

Nick has done the community a great service with this site.

Questioning his motive is below the belt and, in any case, Humphrey sounds like an ass.

Anyway, think of the jobs. The Greens are always whining on about the economy and how hard things are for the lazy and workshy.

Some of those layabouts could now get jobs for Sainsburys. If they weren't too busy watching daytime TV, smoking and drinking.

Matt-z said...

Lou's right with his first two points. Humphry is looking for a conspiracy where there isn't one.

@Mb that sort of talk will send the BDS past the point of no return

Anonymous said...

This is fab news. Thank you, Nick, for the information. I much prefer Sainsburys to Tesco and also prefer Sains NX to eg Denmark hill.

Now my fingers are crossed for a similar development on Brockley Road, post office site perfect!

Deep Ear said...

Lou Baker, you must be a stooge right from the Edelman school of stooges. If you are not, you are being manipulated - which makes you a total (and pompous) ass - no excuse.
Why is it unreasonable to question the motives of an Edelman PR "inelligence" officer who belongs to an agency that has manipulated the American public via the same means by making them dependant on a social web page? (Sad and mad I'm sure, but under Edelman read chief exec philosphy for the MO.)For a PR agency that rejoices in creating social internet sites for the public--Edelman--Lou, Nick, and the PR other 'aliases'--if you want a debate on the subject then have it - don't insult people.

Monkeyboy....or am I? said...

Can i be part of the PR global conspiracy too? I have been known to buy the odd sticky bun from the behemoth that is Sainsbury's.

I do love the idea of Lou & Nick being in cahoots, or possibly the same person.

Anonymous said...

@Edelman.

"Anonymous said...
This is fab news. Thank you, Nick, for the information. I much prefer Sainsburys to Tesco and also prefer Sains NX to eg Denmark hill.

Now my fingers are crossed for a similar development on Brockley Road, post office site perfect!"

EDELMAN makes me want to vomit. You should get your boss to change his strategy. It came on top in the States and it's only a while before it comes on top over here. A lesson in people pleasing 'Bob' - respect. Don't take the public for fools.

Comrade Monkeyboy said...

...by the way. Did you know that TfL was run by an ex high ranking CIA officer? FACT!!

I work for London Underground which is owned by Transport Trading Limited which is owned by TfL... VERY convinient!

They're ALL OUT TO GET YOU!!!

*manic laugh*

Deep Ear said...

And note the way the way they wheel they Monkey out to do his put-down monkey business--at all times of the day and night? Perhaps he's real, or Memorex, or really Edel-vice...
I will be posting more on this company later, and on this 'site'.

Matt-Z said...

I love the idea of Nick and Lou being the Id and Ego of the same tortured soul.

For those who suggest the sorting office would be a great site for a new Waitrose, farmers market or anything else, where would we all go to collect our parcels?

Deep Ear said...

Oh do wake up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Edelman

Nic...I mean MonkeyLou... I mean boy....whatevs said...

Once again the thread has gone beyond weird.

Nick posts news

Nick posts a quote from someone else

Nick posts a vauge opinion

Nick discloses that the company he works for has an account with sainsburys (before someone posts that he's willfully hiding something)

Nick throws open the thread to reasoned debate

Nutbag thinks that nick is part of a neo-con world governement looking to take over the UK, starting with SE4.

News of The Rapture sounds positively sane compared to that.

If you really want to argue about the plus/negative of chain stores then state your point rather than looking for non existent plots.

Matt-Z said...

Wake up? To what?

Bloke who works for PR company also runs local blog promoting local issues and stuff that generally benefits the community (e.g. local businesses doing well, community action and engagement) and highlighting things that don't (e.g. parking enforcement, library closures). Bloke occasionally runs stories with connections to his day job, makes full disclosure and leaves everyone to make their own mind up. Where's the conspiracy? Who's the shill?

My former 'boss' is currently serving 25 years. Does that make me a fraudster? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Ebbers

P.S. I don't know Nick, never met him.

Brockley Nick said...

@deepear

"I will be posting more on this company later, and on this 'site'."

Cool, please make sure to mention we were UK agency of the year last year and in the Sunday Times 100 best places to work for the last couple of years.

insider said...

thanks for posting this Nick.
Having walked past that empty unit for a long time now, I am happy that something is happening to it.
To those who question how this will 'brighten' up this strip, I suppose you would rather New Cross stays a baren wasteland.
With Goldsmiths stranglehold on my local area I rejoice when an empty building is put to some practical use.
SO....
I thank you for the story. Ignore the crackpots(don't ignore Lou)

Tressilliana said...

Yes, ignore the crackpots, Nick. I do admire the way you keep your cool in the face of some of the nonsense you have to put up with here. Experience with toddlers no doubt comes in handy.

I'm a bit taken aback to see so many people blithely wishing the sorting office away. If it wasn't there, how far would the postpeople have to travel before starting their rounds? And what about the parcels? I love having a sorting office in walking distance rather than tucked away on some remote business park.

The Cat Man said...

So is this the supposed new Brockley store or a different application to the store expected around the station?

Canny shopper said...

The sorting office being so near is very handy as is the costcutters & broca food market for emergency groceries. When I need to shop properly I go to large supermarket as opposed to a local/metro/express type store where you have to pay more.

Anonymous said...

Is the Tesco Express opening on Lewisham High Street old news? Hadn't heard about it till I walked past the signs today.

me said...

Has anyone else noticed that there are only sensible comments on South East Central because everyone has to sign up.

patrick1971 said...

Tamsin, interesting about the car park location. When I worked at Sainsbury's, I made this very point to the head of location planning (who'd been in role for years), who agreed it was rather stupid. Weird. The only thing I can think of is that when we, in the central London head office, wanted to see what a "typical" store was like, we'd always go to New Cross Gate as it was the closest one to central London that looked like most Sainsbury's around the country.

There was some talk many years ago of knocking down the existing building and rebuilding it with flats on top, similar to the Asda in Feltham. Wonder what became of that?

Anonymous said...

I assumed the car park was at the front so that, driving past, you could see the car park and the spaces within.

Brockley Nick said...

You can't see the spaces from the road though. There's a petrol station and a couple of large shops in between.

Anonymous said...

Oh well. All the easier to drive out of.

Anonymous said...

Is it just me or is NXG Sainsburys always strangely empty compared to other supermarkets? Same goes for the shops (currys etc) near the petrol station.

Has to be one of the most ill thought-out pieces of planning around as so much space is wasted.

Ed CPZ said...

Deep Ear Infection.

Brockley Nick said...

Thank you to all my aliases for your kind words.

DJ said...

Brockley, yesterday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-KU7MD_3Hk

Wake up!

patrick1971 said...

I agree, Anon 10.46. Compared with Lee Green, New Cross Gate is always pleasantly empty. It has a very affluent customer profile, though, interestingly; probably due to the lack of Waitroses, etc. in the area.

I don't know how the Currys makes money, it's always empty. The retail unit next door is constantly changing hands (Topps Tiles has now shut), so it must be very difficult to make money from such a large space there.

Anonymous said...

Would be nice if there was just one supermarket in Brockley! Costcutter really should be done under the trade descriptions act as it really doesnt cut costs....

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

Patrick, what do you base your conclusion that New Cross Gate Sainsbury's has an affluent customer base?

They look like average Joes to me.

It does get busy on Saturday mornings I find nowadays.

I have stopped using Lewisham Sainbury's since a mouse accompanied me on my last shopping trip there, along one of the rear aisles!

TM again said...

Should be ON what of course.

Apologies

Richard Gere - Honarary President, Brockley Dogging Society said...

To be fair a mouse in the rear aisle is an acquired taste

Ed CPZ said...

It is wrong to assume that Costcutter aim to cut your costs rather than their own...

TM again said...

RG
I did take care to say along........ rather than up.

patrick1971 said...

@TyrwhittMichael - it was based on research we did when I worked there (albeit six years ago now), looking at which products sold well. New Cross Gate was the third highest in the country for sales of organic and healthy products, which typically appeal to a more affluent consumer and have a higher price profile.

We saw a similar effect in Scotland, and in areas north of Newark (which at the time was the most northerly Waitrose store). In those areas, Sainsbury's became by default the upmarket option.

TM said...

Ok that's fair enough...

Oh and the 100th post!!

Monkeyboy said...

They keep running out of "taste the difference" buffalo mozzarella. Middle class fail.

TM said...

My measure of middle class-ness is whether they stock Guinea Fowl in sufficient numbers for them still to be available at 4pm on a Saturday afternoon.

Anonymous said...

@DJ said

That's so funny. I had forgotten how adolescent and reductionist the hypodermic model of cultural transmission is. God was life on the left in the 1980's really that grim; its so easy to forget.

Since then some of us have kept those magic glasses on and have had the balls to interrogate our own ideological beliefs. Perhaps you might like to try it sometime?

But hey why would you want to do that, to undermine a world view that is so cosy in its smug superiority, and who knows is now possibly also very lucrative for you too.

DJ said...

Oh so you know all about me and my beliefs from one humorous post on an internet forum do you Anonymous?

Thank you for your condescending concerns. Remind me. who was the smug and superior one again?

Anonymous said...

Touche!

Ed CPZ said...

Sainsbury's NX have not had the TTD Piccante Gorgonzola on my last two visits; most disappointing!

Tamsin said...

@ Patrick (on the layout of the Sainsbury's site). There was apparently something said at the time about one of Bazlegette's sewers running underneath the car park and so a heavy building could not be put on top of it - but that might be just a rumour, and anyway could have been engineered around if the will had been there. The impression we got as locals was that Sainsbury's were not particularly interested in pedestrian traffic (or confident that they would get it anyway - which to an extent has come about if you think of the number of people you see staggering along that covered walkway with carrier bags cutting into their hands) and simply could not be bothered to invest in re-thinking their standard layout.

It was also believed that the stores and gala bingo centre at the front of the site would be much more dynamic and used.

Danja said...

There was apparently something said at the time about one of Bazlegette's sewers running underneath the car park and so a heavy building could not be put on top of it - but that might be just a rumour, and anyway could have been engineered around if the will had been there.

This is probably true. When we did our extension, Thames Water went bonkers about the fact that two huge 12 foot sewers run under our neighbour's garden. Most of the carp in South London floats by underneath us.

Thames threatened to charge us £70k for a survey to give their approval of plans, never mind any actual works. They backed down only because we were demolishing an existing extension which had been put up without permissions, and the new extension was given a raft foundation to spread the ground loading.

All that despite the damn things being 50+m underground!

Map here, it looks like it heads in that direction.

http://tinyurl.com/3mugbpb

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

Slightly off patch but sort of connected; it has been announced that a new Sainbury's is to be built on Bugsby's Way east of the Greenwich Pennisula brach which it will replace.

It will be about three times bigger.

Don't know if that means the New Cross Gate development is on hold for the time being?

Mb said...

Most of the carp in London eh? Mmmmm... Carp.

By the way poo fans, we moved the fleet sewer for the thameslink farringdon works. Interesting to see the brick egg shaped sewer emerging. Replaced with a dull but functional concrete pipe.

Anonymous said...

Whaaaaaat ??

Anonymous said...

Course sewer fishing!

patrick1971 said...

Interesting, Michael. When that Bugsby's Way store was built, it was meant to be a flagship design, as IIRC it uses a lot of natural light and recycles the rainwater from the roof. I wonder if (a) the design was rolled out further across the Sainsbury's estate - I bet not, and (b) if this replacement one will also have the same environmental features.

Tamsin - thanks for the background re the sewer. I wasn't working for Sainsbury's, or living in New Cross, when it was built so didn't go to any of the meetings. What was there before? I'm guessing at some point it was railway yards but surely it can't have been railway yards right up to the early 1990s?

subnet_247 said...

I have to say I'd welcome a new supermarket in the local area. I've lived here for 16 years and would echo the point made by an earlier poster regarding the 'morality' of some (although to be fair certainly not all) of the smaller traders. There is certainly a case that many vendors use convenience as an excuse to sell overpriced, inferior and even out of date produce (by a year in the case of one tin I once purchased!).

While I understand the concerns over a globalised high street, I welcome this (and indeed any) efforts to attempt to make New Cross a more attractive and useable shopping area.

A romanticised view of small business is all well and good, but if everyone here is honest, how often do you actually see anyone strolling along actually utilising the shopping facilities available? In 16 years (and yes that predates the large local Sainsburys) it just hasn't happened. Our so called ‘high street’ is really just a collection of pubs and fast food outlets. Very few of the businesses outside of those models survive because frankly they’re – crap!

It's good to see a politicised and vocal student body exists as Goldsmiths, but perhaps their efforts would be better directed within the communities they actually live within, not the one they lodge within? I think the community division has lessened greatly between local residents and students (we all appreciate that it is one of the few things that guarantees a flow of income into the area - yes, you're our cash cow!), but it is starting to rankle somewhat that the student body seems to have a desire to maintain some sort of semi-mythic, ghettoised, romanticised New Cross - we have as much right as a resident community to a modernised and useable shopping area as the average suburban town or village, so how about backing some competition and improvement and challenging any self held narrow views of idealogical liberalism which only helps to keep New Cross an impoverished area?

If you really want to help the local community and particularly local business, perhaps a petition to improve car parking somewhere within the high street area to allow mothers and families better access to the shops? Another hot green potato obviously, but perhaps it's time we all started to think in slightly broader terms - if local community is so important to everybody, shouldn't it be accessible to all?

Anonymous said...

Not sure why people say "save local businesses" when those local businesses aren't very good, don't employ many people, don't add financial value to local property or other retail, or serve any better purpose than the big chains at all. I love the local Turkish run shop near the station and for milk and bread of course I'll still use it but if they want to compete with Sainsbury's they'll have to fight with produce and prices, not just moan about being a small business. I love New Cross and deptford, and the scruffy charm and the markets and the people, but Sainsbury's can only make my life better and the area cleaner and brighter in the long run as it attracts people with money and ambition. The people who live around here already should be pleased that the area is moving on up, at last.

Bill shrub said...

Sainsburys attracts those with money and ambition? Ah.....those rows of packaged dreams! Two-for-one on a wednesday!

Small independents will need to appeal to a niche, that could be at either end of the market. Not sure where the reach for the stars sentiment comes in.

Sounds you need to aim a little higher.

Now and Then said...

There are great big banners on the scaffold in front of the New Cross Inn opposing Sainsbury's and supporting 'local shops'.

Wasn't the manager a mayoral candidate last time out. Is he sharing a platform with local business or has he let his scaffold out?

Anonymous said...

Welcome Sainsbury's!! Can't wait to see you open. It's time for those hopeless conner shops to go.

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