Super-cut

Supercuts, the Upper Brockley Road off-licence, had its alcohol licence revoked by Lewisham Council this evening.

The shop has been at the epicentre of illegal and anti-social behaviour which has plagued that location for years, an problem to which the owner was avowedly indifferent. Following a review, which asked local people to submit their feedback, Councillor Darren Johnson reports on Twitter:

Supercuts Brockley - licensing cttee agreed tonight to revoke their license in the light of evidence submitted.

The decision comes four years after Mayor Bullock vowed to clean up the area using the full range of the Council's powers.

168 comments:

Anonymous said...

Will there be a booze fire sale?

The Grammar Police said...

Your first sentence says 'this evening' twice.

Pedant Overlord said...

And the licence in "off-licence" is spelt incorrectly.

NAT said...

That evidence seems to have disappeared.

This is great news. Thanks for the punctual update Nick.

It's probably not the end of the matter but a step forward anyway.

Brockley Nick said...

Bloody hell pedant overlord, licence was changed within about 10 seconds of being published and about half an hour before you posted your correction!

Anonymous said...

I believe most of the drink in cups was white rum,so wasnt even sold there.Just have to wait and see what happens now.

Anonymous said...

Not near enough..

Pedant Overlord said...

I am all seeing.

Anonymous said...

Good work Lewisham!

Pedant Overlord said...

It should be licence both times. They are both nouns.

It will be interesting to see the extent of correlation between the licence and the licentiousness.

Anonymous said...

Maybe PO hacked into your computer Nick.

Anonymous said...

A cleaner Brockley. Well done, even if it took 4 years for Mr Bollocks to act

TM said...

Good to see the Mayor move so quickly....

Or not.

Still he retains his democratic franchise...... or something

Anonymous said...

Well done to all who worked hard to shut down this anti-social idiot.

Paddy said...

Only 4 years? Result.

Anonymous said...

well said 10.14-that place has brought misery to local peoples' lives from day one. It serves no purpose whatsover to the local community. The staff and customers are a law unto themselves, have no regard for anyone else, they don't give a toss about ruining other peoples' lives, they just want to bang on and do their thing regardless. I and disappointed that they have not been closed down. They deserve to be..

Anonymous said...

Don't expect it to stop selling booze immediately: they keep their licence for 3 weeks while they make up their mind whether to appeal to the Magistrates' Court. If they do, they can then keep selling booze until the hearing.

Anonymous said...

What about those of us who like the shop and use it regularly?

Headhunter said...

I'm happy for people who live nearby but will anything change? The police generally seem to have ignored problems on this corner for years, the drug dealing etc. Revoking the alcohol licence is a start but I think it will take firmer police action to stamp it out completely...

Brockley bird said...

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/9139936.Brockley_shop_s_licence_revoked_after_royal_wedding_party_shooting/

Does anyone support Councillor Duwayne Brooks who says that it was only shut because the owners were black?

Anonymous said...

Councillor Brooks? Where's he been hiding?

Badgeman said...

Councillor Brooks, of the Lib Dems, was with Stephen Lawrence when he was murdered.

Brockley Nick said...

To be fair to Cllr Brooks, he doesn't quite say what you attribute to him. Here's his quote:

"Everything they spoke about is nonsense.

“There’s nothing that shows the shop was involved.”

He added: “Whenever it’s black people, there’s always talk about violence and intimidation.”

TM said...

Cllr Brookes does also say the decision is "disgusting" although no context is given for this.

It's not clear to me why the paper carries a comment from Cllr Brookes at all as he represents Downham not Brockley and as far as I can ascertain does not serve on the Licencing Committee.

Unless of course this is mischief making by the press, but surely the British Press is above that sort of thing?

Isn't it?

TM said...

I forgot to say the term "Booze Fire Sale" takes on a slightly more ominous meaning following the Boston incident.

Anonymous said...

Considering Duwayne Brooks’ association with Stephen Lawrence’s case, shocked to find he made such racist comments himself. Casting doubts on his own ability to make professional judgement and to serve the public interest as a councillor.

Anonymous said...

"Courts will not issue orders suspending the effects of any licensing authority decision, whilst an appeal is waiting to be heard. The licensing authority's decision will take effect immediately, until the outcome of any appeal is known."

Neighbourhood Watch said...

Shame that a bunch of whinging killjoys got their way. I hope any appeal works as they were the only shop to serve ice cold beers in the whole of Brockley.

Still I will continue to support the shop, and I do think it is a good community place, and yes I am a local and not black.

Pedant Overlord's Underling said...

"Licensing", surely, TM?

Anonymous said...

I really don't see how it will make any difference. There are at least four other shops with alcohol licences within very short staggering distance on Lewisham Way.

Super cuts was rather handy to pop to for a couple of BYO cold ones to go with a curry at Cinnamon.

Anonymous said...

So what if all the people stay hanging around still?

We lock them up for not having jobs? For having their own good time?

Anonymous said...

well there were two police there today at school let out time.

Never see that.

Talk sense said...

I think you lock them up for discharging a firearm in public

Reg said...

I don't know how anyone in their right mind could disagree with this, or call it in any way an issue of 'colour'.

Though it is black and white: drugs are sold, rolled and smoked within yards of a drug rehab unit and a childrens' school. It is disgraceful!

And the 'community' of which i consider myself a part does not condone it. The police need to act, and they need to do so this summer. Decisive action, not appeasement.

Howard Marks said...

The odd spliff seriously never hurt anyone. You'd be alright with people smoking fags there (heaven knows most of the conservation area can't get off fags and flick their dog-ends everywhere) so what's the difference to the observer?

Anonymous said...

I think people get upset, not so much by the drugs, but by the guns.

You might remember a short while ago a child caught in the crossfire between gangs in Stockwell. I think people are rather nervous the same thing could happen around here.

There have been several shooting incidents around Brockley. Over by Brockley Cross and at this location. People have died.

Usually it is related to gang rivalries over control and supply of illicit drugs.

It is not unreasonable for the public to expect the authorities to protect them from the menace that this trade brings to the streets.

This was not just a few sleepy guys quietly smoking wacky baccy on a street corner.

Anonymous said...

Finally. I feel so sorry for the people who lived there. Drive by shootings, fighting and people getting severe beatings a few metres from a school, extreme noise, drug dealing, people urinating in the street, anti social behaviour . I can't believe it took Sir Steve over 8 years to deal with this. Whoever this Duwayne Brooks character is, clearly he hasn't been there or he would see that the people who came from other areas to make local residents lives a living hell behaviour was disgusting, and it all centred around Supercuts. Some people make me sad. No-one has the right to act with total disregard to other people.

TM said...

Yes POU I know it should be an "S" but that looks so American...

Anonymous said...

Boot Councillor Brook out of Lewisham Council. I am not sure he can represent the community after his comments. By the way what was he doing at the street party in the first place

Anonymous said...

@Howard Marks. Fags are legal, spliff isn't, brainbox.

Headhunter said...

How can this Asher guy who runs Supercuts state that the violence and antisocial behaviour outside his shop was nothing to do with him when several sources clearly state that the enormous, illegal sound system (which made the foundations of my house at the far end of Manor Ave shake) was powered by cables running into his shop?!

bartlett23 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Kingston said...

Duwayne Brooks, I believed you and your stories about Stephen. Now I'm no longer with you. All nonsense and you are blind. Prove me wrong!!

SIMMO said...

Brain Duwayne you aint.

TM said...

I see one Brooks has fallen on their sword.....but it isn't Duwayne.

Anonymous said...

If there was repeated gun shots, how come the party wasn't immediately closed down and the area cordened off?

Is it know acceptable in Lewisham to fire guns in the street and if hit by a bullet...tough?

Anonymous said...

I lived above the Honeypot, next to Super Cuts, about six years ago. The Parade is a nightmare.
The people who hang around outside the shops are involved in organised crime.
Apart from that, it's just the way that stretch of Lewisham Way is. If you live near it, that's just bad luck or poor judgement, as far as the police and the council are concerned.
It's the neighbourhood, stupid.
I like where we live, but I wouldn't live anywhere near The Parade. To be honest, I wouldn't even live here if I could afford to move back into central London.
I'm not from here originally, and the only thing I don't like about London is the fact that the price of housing forces people on good salaries to live in areas where most people are poor and/or ignorant.
So seek gentrification all you want - you are the minority.

Anonymous said...

Snob.

Anonymous said...

Living in Brockley reminds me of some of the time I spent in third world countries. Corrupted Council officials, absent and distracted police force, dirty and poorly maintained roads, Cuban style hight street shops, empoverished transportation, few people with a real job and the majority living day by day breaking rules, claiming benefits or joining crime gangs.

This is London Zone 2, yet for those born here there is little hope, no ethics, no rules, an East Berlin style leadership and sadly very little aspiration to a better life.

Conclusion, I will move out soon to more a less depressed area. One less Council tax payer in Lewisham!

Mb said...

Third world? What utter bilge. Hope the door didn't hit you on the arse on your way out.

Anonymous said...

The borough of Lewisham is a third-world society, in that it doesn't work. Ask a rarely-spotted policeman why he didn't book a driver for doing something illegal that you both saw and you'll be told that these things are let slide in Lewisham because there are worse things going on. What he means in effect is that XYZ laws don't exist here. Disgusting.
Another thing is the council tax. Ours costs £100 per month. When we rented in Westminster - a safe, attractive place swarming with cleaners and cops - the council tax was - and still is - £50 per month.
Why? Large-scale corruption.
If a neighbourhood is made of people, and Brockley as represented on this blog is one, my advise to all of you is to find some way to get out of this crap borough.

Tressilliana said...

I've lived in Lewisham since 1986 and I don't recognise the picture you are painting.

Do you have any evidence to support your (very serious) assertion of widespread corruption amongst council officers? Incompetence and extravagance might be arguable in some cases, but widespread corruption?

We've brought up two children in Brockley and that's brought us into contact with lots of local families. Very few were living on benefits, and of those quite a few were on benefits for a while and then as the children got older the parent(s) got back to work. I'd be fascinated to see Anon's evidence that there are 'few people with a real job' living in this borough. Why are the trains and buses jammed solid in the rush hours, then?

Anonymous said...

You couldn't afford places in Brockley on benefits.

Tressilliana said...

Of course you can, and not just on the estates like Honor Oak and the one between Brockley Road and Wickham Gardens. The Conservation Area contains a lot of social housing, both small blocks of flats built to replace bomb-damaged houses and old houses bought up and turned into flats. A lot of the people who live there will be on housing benefit, which is often paid to top up low wages.

Anonymous said...

Sorry the remark about Lewisham being Third World seems daft to me.

In Third World countries the city sewers are an open ditch along the road. The electricity is off a lot of the time or unreliable. You have to carry your water from standpipes. The roads are dusty and full of potholes. Health services are limited and you have to pay as you do for your childrens education.

Life is tough.

To compare that to Lewisham is an absurd exaggeration. Lewisham amongst the London boroughs has a high porportion of the London poor so it struggles rather more than places like Westminster with its expense fiddling MPs.

Lewisham could be a lot more efficient, but it generally gets there in the end.

I am curious to know whether the residents of local hostel, Rokeby House, are still seen as factor contributing to this problem.

The area around there was supposed to be subject to a Drinking Control Zone.

Do these work?

Anonymous said...

Do the Drinking Controlled Zones work? The answer is a big NO.

Mb said...

Bilge. Westminster does not share the same demographic as lewisham or have the same call on it's resources. To compare the two tells you little, it's really not much more helpful as a comparison than your generic "third world country"

Why not compare HillyFields to the Amazon? after all it "has some trees"

Anonymous said...

The resident's at Rokeby House have never been a problem, don't know how that came up. The staff in there are good people also. They are concerned of course about what goes on along the Parade, it very often spills onto their premises..'spills' is a good word to use.

Anonymous said...

Its hard to get involved when they know where you live,but you dont know where they live.

Headhunter said...

I was under the impression that council tax in Westminster was so cheap due to the high density of businesses in the borough which pay handsomely into council coffers, unfortunately Lewisham has to rely on residents to raise money, there aren't many major corporations based in Lewisham...

Anonymous said...

@Mb

The Brockley Jack was closed down becuase of alledged drug dealing etc.

Supercuts has had its licence withdrawn, among the allegations are shooting & drug dealing.

In the period in between those two events have things any got better, or just to another location?

In the past 2 years how many serious incidents have taken place in or around the area or connected to residents from the area?

Making excuses about demographics has to stop.

It was not their F'ing demographics that made individuals torture two students and then set fire to them. It was two individuals who chose to have a shoot out and kill an innocent female in the crossfire.

Not long ago our council officers, councillors and police were saying there was no or little gang culture in the borough...I can think of at least 3 major trials involving gangs or their members from the area.

This borough has spent something like £5m removing some graffitti over the years...look around is it really any better?

All that's happened is there's still graffiti plus brickwork painted brown.

You have teachers striking about a slightly reduced unsubstainable pension churning out more and more kids with a total lack of regard for others.

We live in a borough, despite all the grants etc it gets, which has one of the highest Council Taxes in London.

We are not getting a good return on our money.

The number of times I've seen people drawing attention to a situation and the response is lacklustre.

At Milford Towers, Catford last year residents asked if police were going to set up a unit on the estate, to be told it wasn't regarded as safe for the offiers.

Anonymous said...

Headhunter, stuff Westminster..look at borough's round and about.

Why in Lewisham do TfL take so long to make repairs to compared to other areas.

Why in Lewisham is it felt neccessary to search a childs pram and its mothers baby bag before being allowed entrance to People's Day?

Why is accepted as the normal there will be trouble, rather than creating an attitude where people don't feel they ned to be 'tooled up' or walk round a viscous dog.

Another example is CCTV, it's in your face it's brutal in yer face loudly saying you live in a crime ridden unsafe area.

What gets me are the CCTV's plonked nect to the War Memorials...what the f*ck did those people die for.

Anonymous said...

Why is that pile of site outside Mengals still there after all these years.

THere must be a law that says it's now regarded as permanent and requires planning permission.

At least paint the bloody sea container so it's more attractive.

Mb said...

What are you babbling on about? You had a comment about council tax rates in Westminster. Council tax is related to income and expenditure, Westminster is a an atypical council, look at it's location. It's not comparable to lewisham.

Mb said...

So anyway, lewisham is abput average. I wonder what its like in Westminster? http://maps.met.police.uk/

There are horrible crimes all over the place, from surrey to the lake district, but actually crime overall has fallen, of course the tabloids love telling us how shit everything is compared to the "olden days"

If you want to have such a cynical, bleak opinion of your neighbours thats your prerogative. The facts do not seem to back you up. The police could be making it all up I s'pose. Lived in London all my life, I hear about more crime now because I read about it on blogs like this. I wouldn't have had any idea about the alleged mayhem on UBR otherwise. Perception of crime, fear of crime are problems in themselves if they prevent us feeling safe but a bit or perspective is called for.

Anonymous said...

Isn't buisness rate tax pooled and shared out rather than going directly to the borough it is raised?

Anonymous said...

Who gives a dog b*ll*cks about Westminster, we live in Lewisham.

Why is design of street furniture in Lewisham with far less footfall have to be chunky and strong as an ox?

Why in Lewisham there can be two blocks very similar and one is kept well maintained and the other isn't?

There's no need to look at Westminster take a look around you in this borough.

Anonymous said...

Oh stop it...average my ass, there is a current case, a case partly finnished, and one that ended recently at the Old Bailey....that indicate Lewisham has specific problems that people wish to push aside.

Bloody hell, Lewisham has officially Europe's largest police station.

Where's the cinema in Lewisham, oh it's a hole in the ground.

The owner of the sea container is very publicly saying to his neighbours you do not deserve better...this is what Lewisham is all about.

Mb said...

Boy, you're proper angry. Street furniture? They're stealing street furniture now? Ours is "twice as strong" really? I'd take a lie down in a darkened room if I were you.

Anonymous said...

Mb...do you want me to rattle off the list of major incidents have taken place in or around Brockley or connected with residents of Brockley.

It's not perception it is the reality.

Mb said...

Well you could, but anyone could rattle off a rival list from else where. The police have convineiently done this for us, they tend to know about crime (they're the police, the clue is in the title). Now those figures show some above average crime in the area, some below. The picture, from those whose business is crime, tell us were fairly average in London. Unles theyre part of the conspiracy, personally I'm inclined to go with the figures rather than a random punter on here who is just regurgitating newshopper stories, BBC London or stories down the pub.

Three shootings within a few hundred meters of my house so I'm not unaware of the bad guys.

Anonymous said...

Why supercuts is still trading on Friday and over the weekend? Are they not supposed to be closed?

Janet said...

Mb I beginning to think you're either thick or a police propagandist.

So you believe in the police 100% do you? After all they wouldn't possibly massage the crime figures in order to make themselves look good would they?

Looking at the crime map for the area I can already see that crimes that had taken place over the past year have not even been recorded - ask yourself Why. The answer is that the police are either failing to record certain crimes, or having recorded them kept this information from the crime map figures.

If those cameras outside Rokeby House and the wall memorial record anything it is Brockley apathy as far as the police borough commander is concerned. In fact I know this to be the case because my friend served at Lewisham as a police officer and he in fact warned me not to buy in Brockley.

There are times when I wished I had heeded that warning. So please stop the propaganda, Mb!

Anonymous said...

The residents of Upper Brockley Road have suffered disturbances for many years and certainly the Rokeby House has been connected with that in the past.

It is here in the council minutes.

http://councilmeetings.lewisham.gov.uk/CeListDocuments.aspx?MID=290&RD=Meeting%20Documents&DF=17%2f10%2f2007&A=1&R=0


I guess the drinking shifted to one of the shops on the parade.

I am wondering whether any of the actions the council and police have taken over the past couple of decades have had any positive effect.

Mb said...

No not all crime is reported. Do you think it's not reported more in lewisham or is the level of under reporting fairly constant. In which case we're back where we started. I don't thing the police are cleaner than clean but neither do I think that you or indeed me have a grip on the total crime figures. "bloke down the pub said" is not a method I'd choose measure things. Do you know how we compare to haringay? No, I suspect you don't.


I'm not a police propagandist, just not a hysterical numpty who hears some stories from friends of friends, blogs, local papers and assumes that it gives me some special insite into the level of mayhem in lewisham. That would be thick

Anonymous said...

They have only lost there drinks licence not there trading one.

Kane said...

I think one can safely assume that Mb doesn't live in Upper Brockley Road, or anywhere in Lewisham, or planet Earth. He gets his 'insite' from his 'research'.

Mb said...

I'm in blissful ignorance 'tis true. Ive never said there isn't a problem in UBR. You seem to extrapolate that to meaning that lewisham is particularly crime ridden compared to the rest of London. What is your evidence for that? I'm genuinely interested. Do you phone "man in pub" in north London to check? I could say that I've never been the victim of crime and use that to demonstrate that lewisham is crime free. A shoddy analysis I think youd agree. An earlier poster suggested that the fact we have a massive police station in lewisham proves we have a particularly high crime rate. With analysis like that I feel all at sea

Anonymous said...

i've just been past supercuts and there was someone walking out with a freshly opened bottle of beer .... how long until they stop selling alcohol ?
saying that , it does seem a lot quieter out on the parade tonight , which is a blissful relief

Pedant Overlord said...

Viscous dogs need more solids.

Anonymous said...

Mb people coming out of Lewisham railway station are reminded everytime the borough has Europe's largest police station.

It dominates the landscape, not happy with having the largest police station, their vehicles lineup on the forecourt next to where people wait for buses and in open view of shoppers opposite.

The impact of the listed church, the old Co-op and the shopping centre are pushed aside by the visual dominance of Europe's largest police station.

Anonymous said...

To say dismiss crime as 'average' is no consulation to those who have to suffer the consequences.

The response from those in authority is different depending on
the area in the borough a crime is reported.

For example complaints about drinking issues in Blackheath will result within days in a meeting of stakeholders.

In Catford complaints about quite serious drinking issues will be met with a shrug of the shoulders and the attitude it's the norm for the area.

Anonymous said...

ok , so i have just received a letter from the council about the licince being revoked. Apparently they have 21 days to lodge an appeal and can keep serving alcohol during this time. If they decide to appeal , they can keep serving alcohol until the magistrate makes its decision. So the nightmare isn't over yet!

Anonymous said...

Councillor Brooks, what were you doing at the party? Were those people came with you from Downham?

mintness said...

people coming out of Lewisham railway station are reminded everytime the borough has Europe's largest police station.

The one you can't actually see from the station, you mean?

Anonymous said...

Duwayne Brooks was at the party?

Anonymous said...

yeah nice one Duwayne , next time why don't you have the party outside your own house?

Tressilliana said...

MB, if I wasn't already spoken for, I'd be offering to have your babies. Good work on this thread. A voice of reason and restraint in amongst the hysteria.

God knows how many people you've been discussing this with as so few of them have bothered to invent a distinctive name for themselves.

Headhunter said...

Drink, drugs, crime and now sex... All on 1 thread. Good work everyone.

Anonymous said...

let's make it 90..

Anonymous said...

I remember going into supercuts to buy some groceries. Nothing had prices on and at the till they had no idea what things cost. Rather strange for a grocery store and off licence. Things may have changed recently. The police twice did underage stings and the youths were sold alcohol, but they did nothing about it.

Lord knows what this Cllr Brooks is playing at. Sounds like he was either drunk in a public street or lying.

Anonymous said...

Gogis doesn't have prices on it's stuff either. I did ask once and got that wobbly head thing.

Brockley Resident said...

I live very close to Supercuts, and I really don't agree with comments which whine about the noise and people and how it's like a "third world country".

I like the fact that people spend time in that area - it's a community, these things are loud and visible - but I think that's ok.

I don't feel threatened by this. And in fact, if anything I always feel safe coming in late at night, as I know that there will be people about who could help me if I needed.

Alochol isn't a problem on The Parade - so to revoke the license doesn't seem to make sense. Alcohol IS a problem, however, at places like The Venue, which does feel threatening at night.

Some people on here really do sound a little snobbish.

Anonymous said...

you feel safe coming home at night knowing that there's been 4 shootings there in 3 years ? weird....I tend to feel safer in areas where there's been no shootings

Captain Perspective said...

There's been quite a few runnings-over as well, doesn't stop me crossing Lewisham Way

Headhunter said...

Yes but generally it's easy to avoid being run over - you just look before you cross. It's less easy to aviod bullets...

Anonymous said...

Either 'Brockley resident' is lying, deaf, blind or friends with the guys at Supercuts! I suppose p*ssing the street is acceptable is it? Or playing really loud music all day. Or people using your front door as a urinal in the middle of the day (not good when YOU open the door). I don't think that's snobbish.

Captain Perspective said...

The statistics would suggest it's far easier to avoid being shot than run over.

NAT said...

Something to do with the relative numbers of vehicles to illegaly held firearms?

I think if I was the devil I'd be advertising for a new advocate right about now.

Headhunter said...

Captain Perspective - Trying to compare the number of people run over on Lewisham Way with the number of people shot on UBR is ridiculous. Hundreds of thousands of cars pass along Lewisham Way every day and I should think thousands of pedestrians cross the road safely. In comparison the number of individuals with (illiegal?) firearms on UBR is tiny however does this mean it's not a problem? Of course not!

Dorctor Bird said...

The so called ‘Brockley Resident’, you called it a ‘community’ where all those people drink in broad day light next to a primary school, in a alcohol free zone and who don’t even live here. Clearly, they are not here to discuss any community or neighbourhood matters! If public nuisance is your value, then I’m not surprised that you need their ‘help’ once it gets dark.

Anonymous said...

I think the Brockley Resident is a spy speaking up for supercuts.

Anonymous said...

I sometimes think the word 'Community' is the most hijacked word ever when discussing local issues in London.

There are lots of communities in Brockley, most benign. But some of them are very troublesome and have criminal tendencies.

The Brockley street drinking/drug dealing/gun owning community are in that category and Supercuts seems to be their social centre.

Anonymous said...

Lovely , a man walked out of supercuts at closing time last night , and then walked 5 metres and urinated right on the pavement and up against my house. what is wrong with some people ??????????

Anonymous said...

Someone walked out of Broca the other day and flobbed on the pavement.... was that OK, if it was organic?

Westsider said...

you made that up, didn't you anon. And no, of course it wouldn't be. Don't be so silly.

Paddy said...

I went for a jog around Hilly Fields 2 weeks ago after work and there was a mens football team playing on the flat bit. As I ran through the trees on Hilly Fields Crescent here was one of the players down on his knees with his w!lly out urinating against a tree. I kid you not, in broad daylight, around 7pm, lots of people around walking dogs with kids and buses driving past etc...

I was completely disgusted and wished I had seen a police man at that time to report him. It doesnt take much effort to go into bushes or something if you are desperate. This joker wasn't even trying to hide himself. I think a lot of people who live in the Lewisham area are not as au-fait with acceptable behaviour in public as they probably should be. Having travelled the world for the past 15 years I never witnessed the kind of behaviour I see around here in a 1st or even a 2nd world country. Lewisham must be the world capital for incredibly awful driving, endless littering, blatant fly tipping, constant spitting, brainless music blasting drivers and now it appears, public urinating.

I cant wait to hear someone come on here and try and make out like all this stuff is great, gives personality to the place and I must smoke mung burgers for even mentioning it. It stinks, is dirty and is quite frankly an embarrassing reflection of how little people care about poor Lewisham.

Anonymous said...

Oh come on you lot. How many of us can truly, truly say we haven't been caught short in a park or town centre, perhaps on a night out, and had a sly wee in an alley way? Or behind a tree?

Come on, seriously?

TM said...

I think you will find that statistically there are a lot less public toilets around now than in the early 20th Century.

Those that remain charge for the priviledge whilst the remainder have become nightclubs or estate agents.

We only have ourselves to blame.

Brockley Dogging Society said...

Indeed, truly sad times. In many ways this is why dogging was forced to go Al Fresco (a phase named after one of the pioneering Italian Outdoor Doggers).

The days since George Michael's latest release could be seen dribbling down a Hilly Fields cottage door are, sadly, long gone.

Tressilliana said...

Urinating behind a tree is very different from urinating on someone's front door.

Anonymous said...

Is it? They're both wood. Is one more artisanal than the other?

DJ said...

Dunno about piss but you clearly have shit for brains Anonymous.

Tressilliana said...

We should set up a Brockley tweed weaving business and collect the urine to soak the tweed in, as they used to do in Harris. Makes it softer and helps to set the colour, apparently.

'free toilets for people' said...

I saw a man squatting to evacuate at the Catford end of Ladywell Fields a while ago, at the edge of a path, and showing more distaste for me looking at him than embarrassment at being caught 'in the act'.

Tamsin said...

It is, actually, quite an issue - fewer public toilets, those that are around not maintained, those that are put in to try to deal with the problem not necessarily very helpful if you are either old, disabled or female.

The Lewisham Pensioners Forum meeting this morning was on the issue with a couple of researchers, Jo-Anne Bichard and Gail Knight, presenting their work on finding out what is needed and where - and how to improve matters. This is the link to the organisation behind the research - working toward mapping just what facilities are available where.

Anonymous said...

Can't the old, disabled or female (???) use toilets then?

Bored and tired said...

Don't be stupid anon. You might have noticed that women (and disabled people) use lavatories in a different way to men. Lucky old us - we have to drop our trousers and knickers to the floor, trying to avoid the pools of wee left by misfiring men, and sit on a seat splattered with wee left by misfiring men who can't be bothered to put the seat up before they go. We then wash our hands and then have to unlock a door that has previously been touched by a man who hasn't washed his hands. It is, needless to say, also harder for women to relieve themselves behind a tree than it is for men, as we are far more likely to expose more than we would care to expose.

Anonymous said...

What do you think us blokes do when we need a poo then?

Honestly...

Bored and tired said...

By the way Paddy, although I agree that urinating in public spaces, up against people's doors, under bridges etc etc is gross and anti social and shows a huge lack of respect, I honestly don't think that weeing up against a tree is anywhere near as bad. I've always thought that being able to pee discreetly in public is one of the advantages that men enjoy. I'm not sure what would have happened had it been a women's football match. And the loos at Hillyfields seem to be closed all the time now, or at least every time I have been there in past weeks (and I go very regularly) they have been closed. Hence the problem with the closure of public loos...

Bored and tired said...

Yes, thank you anon, I am aware of that. But generally even men can manage to hold on to a poo until they reach more pleasant surroundings.

Brockley Nick said...

HF toilets aren't shut - or at least not formally so. I successfully used them the other day, although the door kept swinging open...

Roll-on the HF cafe's nice shiny loos.

NAT said...

At the risk of being off thread, I'd say the HF toilets are closed midweek due to Keith the park keeper having his days cut by Glendale, I'm told the rubbish is considerably worse then also.

Brockley Dogging Society said...

Sorry about the door, Nick. One of our members was banging it a bit hard last night - and noticed that the door was out of order also.

See you soon? x

Headhunter said...

Just get a She Wee and you can go up the side of a tree or against someone's front door with the lads!

Anonymous said...

I wonder how long some of you have lived in Brockley....??? Brockley has had and will continue to have a community spirit! Supercuts has been there long before any of you came to live in Brockley. One street party on a national holiday (William and Kate's wedding) and everyone loses the plot!! What about community spirit??? I suppose because it "black" music. Bunch of hypocrites... leve if you don't like Brockley... go and give your council tax to another borough. There are shootings, stabbinghs, robberies all over London... ediots!

Anonymous said...

Been there well before Supercuts arrived I'm afraid , and it was a fruit and veg shop. A much more pleasing place to live because people didn't shoot each other whilst intoxicated on bananas

drakefell debaser said...

Ouch, ediot is not a very nice word, and calling people names is not in keeping with your ideology of Community Spirit is it?

Out of interest, how long have you lived in Brockley, anon? How many years does it take to earn an opinion?

Anonymous said...

And I don't really think it was just the street party that did it... that was a final straw. The music is fine , loved it in fact , but it is the SHOOTING that we have a problem with.

TC said...

Anti Social behaviour is nothing more than bullying.

I can't think of a more cowardly or disrespectful pass-time.

In what way is opposing such action hypocritical?

25 years long enough?

Headhunter said...

Anon 28 July 2011 14:52 - I've only lived in Brockley for 5 years and Super Cuts doesn't affect me generally but from what others have written here and from what I have heard, the problems with this place go waaay back and are not the result of the illegal street party. Get yuor facts straight.

Anonymous said...

Everyone knows that most of the dishonest fare moved into Brockley around or after 2005. Before then, people looked after each other and didn't attract such horribly faddy shops to the area. There are thankfully still some places serving decent produce, good honest grub and a straightforward pint.

Anonymous said...

anon @ 14.52, are you declaring a territor just like those gangsters usually do? Don't you think
it's too old-fashioned? If you ever studied or worked properly for the past few years, you'll have a different opinion.

Anonymous said...

anon @ 14.52 Way before Supercuts opened, about 9 years. There were issues before Supercuts opened though, but they made if far far far worse.

It doesn't matter who lives there, if the people who come to an area cannot act in a decent way towards their fellow human beings, cannot act in a social way, then they have no right to be there. Period.

BrockleyB said...

@anonymous 14.52..'because it's Black Music' is that really the best you can do? Poor sod..

Anonymous said...

Us 'bunch of hypocrites' and 'ediots' have had another evening ruined by Supercuts policy of supplying alcohol to large numbers of noisy, selfish, antisocial individuals congregating in the area. Residents should redouble their efforts to rid this place of that nuisance premises.

Anonymous said...

yeah I could hear that too ... bloody nuisance ... shouting and swearing right outside my house again. When do they have to stop selling alcohol ? Can't come soon enough

MikeL said...

yeah I heard it too..and more of the same tonight. i passed earlier and there was a group shouting and swearing outside Supercuts..some drinking also. I thought their drinks licence had been taken away? if that was a pub (is it a pub?) they would be shut down long ago.

Anonymous said...

It does seem strange that this can go on in a drinking control zone. It isn't a pub , but may as well be.

Grow a Pair said...

If I lived near Super Cuts or any other such hell hole of a place (it doesnt affect me so this is a neutral comment), I would march straight in there and tell them to such the F up. If they refused I would call the police endlessly until they arrived, take photos of the offenders or blatantly video the 'action', contact local papers, MPs, action groups and get em down there to witness the daily antisocial behaviour. I would find out where the owner or landlord lives and play Riverdance on full blast at 3am outside his bedroom window until action was taken. If nothing was still done I would organize a protest by all residents sitting with placards in the middle of Lewisham Way blocking the traffic all day until the police and press arrive and enough awareness of this is created and the place shut down - for good. Too much? If my kids are unable to sleep because some idiots wanna party till 2am on a Tuesday night, I take that personally and wouldnt stop until they are.

Decibel said...

When I lived on a noisy street sometimes it was frustrating. That's why I eventually came to the decision, not without a lot of soul searching mind you, to buy some earplugs. You place them in your ear it stops unwanted noise from entering.

But then again it would stop your moral outrage and frothing persecution complex wouldn't it?

Anonymous said...

ah yes, bullet proof ear plugs! great idea

Brockley Nick said...

LOL

Grow a Pair said...

Decibel - aaaah of course, what a great idea. Wish I had thought of that. Ignoring an anti-social problem is such a great suggestion. Where would the human race be if our answer to all of lifes problems was 'just ignore it'. Are you one of those people who stares at the floor and quickly walks away when he sees a granny being attacked on the street? I suspect you are confusing anti-social behaviour with normal acceptable street noise.

Cut price vigilante said...

Or to quote liam Neeson..

I WILL hunt you down, I WILL find you and I WILL kill you....

stop it big boy, I'm getting a semi.

Anonymous said...

Dear Decibel,

My friend in the Parade bought ear plugs. They didn't work. They installed special acoustic windows (as the crowns outside their home told them to do when they asked them to turn the music down). It didn't work. Neither will stop a flat from vibrating due to the excessive noise. Plus there is all the other stuff that Ear plus wont stop. Like p*ssing in the street, fighting and bullets (if you find any that do, let the people who live there know).

Maddened said...

Exactly - earplugs dampen down noise by about six per cent. Will do nothing for thumping loud music - in fact they don't even block out the sound of noisepigs' iPods on the train. Loud music and TVs is more and more of a problem in this country I think - I'm having to sell up because of it.

MikeL said...

More of the same last night. Shouting, swearing, spliffing, dealing down by that yellow van which seems to be permantly parked in the area alongside rubbish man's van..more people piling out of Supercuts shouting as though they might be on either side of a big field, and that plumbers place at 11+pm..what kind of plumbing goes on in there?

NAT said...

Good man, 'grow a pair'. Would you play the riverdance thingy outside the owners house or the licencees. The owner has been on here to defend himself; but I understand he's not actually the licencee,

Anonymous said...

These people show no regard for the community, I'm happy to see the license got revoked. Signs posted in the area state an Alcohol Free Zone, yet, I find bottles and cans littered on our ground, which I pay fees to clean up in my leasehold, firmer police action is required to stamp out unlawful behaviour, but from what I witness daily, nothing appears to be enforced.

What will it take to clean this up?

Anonymous said...

'police and council will now introduce a drinking control zone in the small residential street' is not enforced

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

I see little difference between the people who congregate outside, inside and around Supercuts and the looters and rioters we have seen these last few days.

They both have little regard for other people, sometimes violent, selfish and think they can get away with anything.

This thread and the riot threads are the most read on this blog. The biggest difference is that there was action on the riots. With Supercuts the council didn't bother, the police weren't interested, Lewisham Councils Mayor Bullock didn't care, Lewisham Cllrs Onuegbu and Cllr Brooks don't care and this was allowed to go on for years and year and year and years.

Even now it continues even after they are supposed to be banned from selling alcohol. Pathetic.

Anonymous said...

Last night someone outside Supercuts was having an argument with someone else and was repeatedly shouting 'f'ck off you c'nt..charming

Anonymous said...

That's because they are NOT banned from selling alcohol, stop the mung bean fulled hate please.

Anonymous said...

Oh , I misunderstood. Did they lose their licence and are appealing against this ? or did they not lose it at all ? thanks

Anonymous said...

They have appealed. The 'first' hearing is on the 24th August.

Anonymous said...

They should close down the Honeypot too as that attracts them to eat.

Shameful said...

This is an absolute disgrace!

How dare you say that... 'They should close down the Honeypot too as that attracts them to eat.'

Who the hell do you think you are asking for a perfectly good business to be closed down because you don't like some of the people that hang out nearby? I go to the Honetpot regularly, it's probably one of my favourite local eating spots, full of character and characters.

Why not throw anyone you don't like out of their houses, drive them from the neighbourhood with pitchforks while you're at it.

And by 'them' you mean black people presumably? This blog can be a really useful tool for news and info, but more and more it's attracting really pernicious and vindictive comments. I would have thought that Brockley Nick with all his support for the businesses and local area might take down comments that call for the closure of a business for no good reason at all especially with tensions running high on UBR this is needlessly fans the flames and God knows we've had enough of that recently.

Any anti social behaviour should be dealt with by police action, not by closing down businesses.

But I guess most people on this blog would never dare set foot inside anywhere that didn't have space for their pushchairs and serve cupcakes and flatwhites.

Don't let the idiots get to you said...

Shameful, you make some good points, I agree there is the slight hint of the dog whistle going on.. Dont get sucked into the same tactic of assuming that people behave according to a lazy stereotype, it undermines your point.

NAT said...

@ Shameful, a nasty little post right enough, but it was an anon. Maybe there was irony intended, there was no rejoinder to your post natch.

patrick1971 said...

By "them", I assumed the poster meant "the people who use Supercuts". Pretty stupid to call for the closure of an unrelated business, but maybe you're the one "fanning the flames" by bringing a racial element into this?

Anonymous said...

that's how I read it too Patrick.

Anonymous said...

I'm sure I saw a board outside a newsagents stating that Supercuts were to appeal their alcohol sale ban . However I didn't buy the paper . Anyone got a link to it ? It was the south london press I think

Anonymous said...

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/top_stories/9237978.Appeal_for_Brockley_Super_Cuts_over_royal_wedding_party_shooting_row/

Damn right too... getting a bit sick of the 'virgin olive oil' brigade trying to stamp down on anyone who basically... well... doesn't look like them.

Dime bag a Dozen said...

And I'm sick of walking my kids through a thick cloud of skunk smoke everyday at school pick up.

sraw said...

culture clash!

Anonymous said...

Wahoo.. Just saw this link. Any opinion?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/1999/sep/17/lawrence.ukcrime

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