South East London Updates

UPDATE 23:15: Tonight appears to be the night when - in London at least - sanity was restored. A heavy and active police presence has undoubtedly been key, but it would also be nice to think that the huge public outpouring of grief and revulsion made a few people re-evaluate what they were playing at. Aside from one opportunistic incident this afternoon, Brockley's night has passed peacefully.

UPDATE 22:15: Lots of sirens in the night, but they all seem to be pre-empting, rather than responding to problems. No significant confirmed incidents.

UPDATE 21:32: Here are 'Team Eltham' reportedly on the march towards Lewisham (via Hamble). This is like the Springfield Bear Patrol. SORRY that is not what this picture shows. Ignore it. There's no evidence they're on the move. They're still like the Springfield Bear Patrol though.

UPDATE 21:21: Lots of BCers confirm a very large group of people (approx 50) gathered in Lewisham Way, up near the war memorial, but no sign of trouble.

UPDATE 21:11: The looters are giving birth to Cameron's Big Society - Millwall vigilantes, Squatters reclaiming Ladbrokes for peace and now, apparently, a vigil in the Railway Pub by the Blackheath Conservatives. Who needs Cobra, when a thousand community initiatives can bloom to solve the problem.

UPDATE 20:57: It looks like tensions may be ratcheting up along Lee High Road. Unconfirmed suggestions on Twitter that it's related to a march by the Millwall fans towards Lewisham.

UPDATE 20:40: Lots of Millwall fans turn out to 'defend' Eltham. Photo here. Hmm... wonder why they chose Eltham.

UPDATE 20:30: Deptford Plus, the guys who prevented the Deptford Project owners from opening a new social enterprise in Deptford by squatting in their premises and who have been uttering the most relativist, platitudinous rubbish about the riots on their Twitter feed are organising a flash mob for peace right now outside the Ladbrokes in Deptford if anyone fancies it, they say bring something to sit on...

UPDATE 20:21: Police have arrested someone at the top of Manor Avenue, by Lewisham Way.

UPDATE 20:!8: Our friend who sent us the photos of fires in Clapham yesterday was just on Channel 4 News (we just caught the +1 version) berating Boris about his leadership, saying she had to have the kitchen knives out to defend herself.

UPDATE 19:55: Brockley is like Manhattan during the 2003 blackout - none of you have anything in your fridges. So the following places are confirmed open for business at the current time: Budgens (Crofton Park), Costcutter (Brockley Station), Brockley's Rock (midtown), Fishby Business (Harefield Road), Bamboo Garden (midtown).

UPDATE 18:31: Here's an image of the Brockley Cross incident taking place, courtesy of Simon:
UPDATE 18:18: The Guardian quotes the Co-Op about the damage done to the Co-Op yesterday:

"Although the vast majority of our stores have now re-opened, around a dozen remain closed due to damage incurred, including the three most seriously damaged food stores – London Road (Croydon), Hilton House (Brockley) and New Addington, which was completely destroyed by fire."

UPDATE 18:12: Just been out to have a look at Brockley Cross and Brockley Road. Both proceeding normally, lots of ordinary people going about their business. One guy putting a lick of paint on his new barber shop (of which more when normal service resumes). Quite a few groups of youths loitering around, but then there always are.

UPDATE 17:52: We just took our swollen face out to speak to the police. Confirmed one man beaten up and it appears they have caught someone for it. The smashed car was a silver Vauxhall Zafira. We asked if Brockley was likely to be a particular target tonight and they shrugged and said not especially.

UPDATE 17:42: Police now gone. Brockley Cross back to normal. The police cars struggled a little bit with the double roundabout, by the way - who says the new system does nothing for traffic calming?

UPDATE 17:36: Police just turned up en masse. Three cars and a van. Kids gone. Pretty minor stuff and Brockley Cross has seen worse, but it does not bode well. The kids were chasing someone. Suggestions on Twitter that they caught him at Upper Brockley Road and attacked him.

UPDATE 17:30: A group of about 10 16-20 year olds fighting / mucking around just ran up Geoffrey Road and possibly on to Upper Brockley Road. A rear windscreen of a car was smashed on Geoffrey.

UPDATE 17:27: Kids running around Brockley Cross chucking things around the streets as we write.

UPDATE 16:44: Greenwich was never the same since they decided to move the meridian 500m west to run through Brockley... town centre boarded up, photo here.

UPDATE 15:15: Chris reports that Surrey Quays shopping centre is now closing.

UPDATE 14:46: This is not a riot. Don't be alarmed, the Brockley Road junk shop is supposed to be like this.
We're in Brockley at the moment and keep hearing sirens in the far distance, but it may be like phantom limb syndrome, we're so used to having them there, that our brain imagines them when they aren't. No confirmed incidents anywhere.

UPDATE 14:36: Paul reports that large chunks of the high street near New Cross Gate are now closed. Many busineses in Lewisham are already confirmed to have closed early and many shops in Forest Hill and Nunhead are now closed. Lee, Catford and elsewhere all preparing for the worst.

UPDATE 14:34: Despite rumours, Forest Hill station is not closed. Cllr Harris also confirms it is untrue that riots have begun in Lewisham.

Preparations for further looting have begun with unconfirmed rumours of disturbances in a number of areas and although we are taking all of them with a large pinch of salt at this stage, we are beginning live updates again using this thread, as per last night. We'll try to stick to the facts - stories confirmed by reputable or trusted sources or from multiple reliable witnesses.

213 comments:

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Anonymous said...

National Maritime Museum has been shut because of rumours of rioting planned in Greenwich Park - my husband works there and is on his way home now...

Amy said...

Thanks for the accruate feed guys!

Nathan David Smith said...

Really good to have something focused on accuracy in the sea of social network-cased journalism.

Anonymous said...

Apparently Crystal Palace shopkeepers have been told to close by police, due to large group gathering in Crystal Palace Park. (source: friend who spoke to one of the shopkeepers)

Anonymous said...

Son's nursery is closing - all parents asked to come and pick up. Staff there live mainly in Peckham / Catford areas - they are receiving updates from friends that it's all kicking off - no official news of this sort yet though.

Jennifer said...

Hello - the Esso on Brockley Road now has witches hats to stop cars going in, but based on how busy it was this morning and the fact most of the pumps have 'out of service' signs on them, I'm guessing this is because they have run out of petrol.

Otherwise, as of 2.45pm, Brockley Road between the station and Adelaide Road is all calm.

Brockley Dogging Society said...

Brockley Doggers will be weilding the baton for a second night.

T said...

Blackheath shops closing and window displays being removed ahead of predicted looting/rioting

Anonymous said...

Ladywell pretty much locked down now. Youth starting to congregate on quieter roads. Just seen 10 riot vans hurtling through new cross in Lewisham direction (5 of which were welsh!). Eerie atmosphere around Lewisham/brockley/ladywell

Anonymous said...

Local restaurant closed - oh no my mistake, just went into a vegetarian cafe expecting service :)

Anonymous said...

Rumours that looting has started in Penge, with the High Street closed and gangs of kids freely walking down looting the shops. Can anyone confirm this?

Anonymous said...

Shops in Sydenham have been closed early (except Morley's, which says it all). Savacentre in Bell Green has removed all electrical goods from store shelves in case looting does break out.

Anonymous said...

http://robichowdhury.com/2011/08/09/how-to-barricade-your-propertystore/ Advice on making your property safe, just in case

Anonymous said...

Heard that Tesco Lewisham has been asked to close early

Marc said...

Back from the big Tescos in Lewisham,tense atmosphere once they started to put the calls out they were closing it.

Adele said...

We were evacuated from Manor House library/park earlier on and most of Ladywell is now shut (El's Kitchen still battling on, as is Oscar's). All very quiet on the streets though.

Mouse said...

I've also heard there's trouble in Penge - from a collegue's babysitter who lives there.

T said...

just heard it's starting in Elephant and Castle

Anonymous said...

There are alot of sirens from vehicles going up and down Loampit vale.... more than usual. Can't see which way they are going from here though.

Anonymous said...

Lewisham Council staff at the Catford buildings (Laurence House and Town Hall) have been told that 'that business as usual should continue during normal working hours'. Seeing as all shops in Lewisham, Catford, Greenwich etc are closed as are local nurseries and kaleidoscope, I'm not sure why they have given this advice.
In other news, Bojo is a pillock.

Ratbag said...

My lodger has just texted me to say that all the businesses in Sydenham , Penge, Forest Hill and East Dulwich have closed. I hope they don't close Canary Wharf early as I have an eyetest booked for 6.20 at Vision Express.

Anonymous said...

Christ alive - this is the most disgusting thing I have heard yet about why this is all going on: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

Danja said...

Good article for those with a way through the FT paywall.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5d421fe2-c278-11e0-9ede-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1UWNqN7BD

Marc said...

Met's started to put pictures of rioters on flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/metropolitanpolice/

Anonymous said...

Weightwatchers cancelled in Brockley tonight (St. Andrews church on Brockley Road)

Anonymous said...

Meanwhile local drug dealers on Upper Brockley Road are taking full advantage of police preoccupations..just have a look.
This same mob was seen giving directions to 'youths' last night, after it turned out the 'youths' were going the wrong way.
Supercuts Off-licence with recent alcohol ban is also doing a roaring trade in selling alcohol to those congregagted in the area.

Anonymous said...

Sorry to niggle, but I like when the most recent update is at the top of the page, and the older ones are at the bottom. Might just be me. But keep up the good work, and we appreciate you updating us.

L said...

Speedicars refusing to take a booking for a journey that goes to Catford, citing riots as the reason.

Anonymous said...

Supercuts doesn't currently have an alcohol ban imposed, Supermungs however don't seem to be able to stem the tide they're spewing...

Anonymous said...

I just called Tomboys hairdressers on Harefield Road to book an appointment for the missus. They've been given a warning that they're headed Brockley way from Nunhead....

Brockley Nick said...

@Anon 1540 - you're right

Anonymous said...

I've been told by a friend who lives in Woolwich that yobs have been trying to burn down Plumstead Fire Station and are making their way towards Woolwich...not sure if this is correct - can anyone confirm?

Anonymous said...

just to echo other comments - thank you for the accurate and measured news feed.

MsBarriedale said...

Sainburys near New Cross gate is closed

Anonymous said...

Budgens in Crofton Park is open (but the shutters are down) and Brockley Rd Costcutter is also open.

Anonymous said...

In the last few hours I've seen seven Police armoured vehicles and many more vans and cars speeding up New Cross Road in both directions. Any information on where they're going? The shop I work at in Greenwich was told to close at lunchtime.

Anonymous said...

We are seeing examples of high profile policing...Very mobile with lots of noise and show. This is their way of keeping the looters on the backfoot and regaining the iniative...

qbf said...

Big queues in Costcutter, and a slightly eerie atmosphere outside, a few more people than usual milling around.

Glad that it seems the Crofton Park rumours were just that, and that Budgens is still OK.

Best picture so far of the response to the riots, for anyone who has missed it:

http://yfrog.com/kj5oewj

I'd like to think Brockley would do something similar if it happened here.

VV said...

Appreciating that most recent update is now displaying first, good suggestion, swiftly sorted. And like everyone else, thanks for the accurate reporting (and dashes of gentle humour).

molakoe said...

Shops closed and shutters down at Crofton Park (including the Co Op).

Anonymous said...

reports of police + fire services at Nunhead, not sure whats going on though

bronsoir said...

I love Brockley (even more now for not having electrical/shoe stores!) and I don't want anyone to trash it. Does anyone have any peaceful/lateral ideas to deter 'youfs' from smashing it up? The best I've come up with is to keep presence of locals on the streets (impromptu concert, anyone?!). The idea wouldn't be to challenge or try to stop them, just to show community and ask them nicely to leave our community alone, offer them a cuppa and witness if anything does happen. Anyone willing to join me? I have a ukelele but can't play it!

Anonymous said...

Helicopters now buzzing over Sydenham/Forest Hill

CJ316 said...

I run an office in Brockley road and have closed early in anticipation it is going to kick off...

Headhunter said...

Cup of bloody tea? It's not WW2/Blitz Spirit! Mow them down with rubber bullets!

Anonymous said...

What exactly are you contributing to the conversation, Headhunter? Shoot 'em down, yeah, that's the answer. Sickening. Hee haw! Are you sure you're not George W Bush in disguise?

Hugh said...

Anyone comes it with me yeah I put him down so he don't get up.

Anonymous said...

OK, who is posting as Headhunter and what have you done with him? These messages have NOT been sanctioned by the mung bean elite! Shouldn't you be commenting about locally sourced jam or something?

Anonymous said...

Surely Headhunter's expertise is more like 'the impact of the riots & looting on London's cycle lane policy' - ???

Tamsin said...

Lots of police vans going out on the Old Kent Road/New Cross Road about three-quarters of an hour ago.

Anonymous said...

Two guys on bikes chased by police horses on Lewisham high street. Other kids chased by police on foot. Police vans amassing.

Anonymous said...

Seems a relatively quiet day in Sydenham. Some shops have shut but not all of them, a few helicopters flying over but obviously going somewhere else. If it wasn't for reading this blog you'd have no clue there was looting or threats of looting going on.

Anonymous said...

Forest Hill Maplin's was done last night, NOT this afternoon.

mikey said...

alarmed by the number of people suggesting that we should take a leaf out of syria's crowd control manual. we don't want to be syria, do we? really?

Anonymous said...

Maplins in Forest Hill was done last night according to the SE23 Forum

Anonymous said...

http://photoshoplooter.tumblr.com/

SamB said...

I just walked home from New Cross station to the Lewisham Way end of Wickham Road. Along the stretch of Lewisham Way between here and Malpas Road, I'd say about half the shops were open.

Tesco Express is closed (and has the small side window boarded up, it was cracked - though not smashed - last night) as is the convenience store next door. Sultan's, further along, is open, but with the shutters down, and absolutely packed with people. Similarly, several of the other stores on that stretch were open.

Down the hill, the small Post Office was closed, and Uncle Ned's Beds looked like they were about to. The other furniture shops were open, as were Morley's and Gogi's supermarket.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
bronsoir said...

Budgen's at Crofton Park was still open 10min ago. Very busy (to be expected with everything else shut) but no sign of panic buying with plenty of everything still on the shelves.

Anonymous said...

'Amy said...
Thanks for the accruate feed guys!'


You taking the piss?

Duck said...

"Budgens open with no sign of panic buying"

Not what I saw when I was in there half an hour ago - it was MENTAL! The queue stretched around the entire shop. I have never seen it like that.

Brockley Nick said...

@Anon - could you be more specific and stop swearing please.

aero-static said...

Just come from Brick Lane where we've been forcible evacuated by landlords on police advice that it's a target. Everything was closed or boarding up.

On a lighter note, the Brockley Jack is open but not sure for how long.

Headhunter said...

It's me... I guess damn fools looting and destroying the city just brings out the medieval in me... I'll give an update on the impact on cycle lanes later...

bronsoir said...

Yeah sure, there was a huge queue - they are the only grocery shop open. Was there panic? No.

Anonymous said...

@bronsoir
'The idea wouldn't be to challenge or try to stop them, just to show community and ask them nicely to leave our community alone, offer them a cuppa and witness if anything does happen.'

Thinking about a messy suicide then?

Anonymous said...

Interesting to learn on the streets of brockley that some of our young neighbours have participated to the riots. Bravado or stupidity does not matter.

Anonymous said...

Just come home from work (Cannon Street), trains are running fine but are getting very busy on the Greenwich line. Had a walk up Deptford High Street, nearly all shops shut, apart from the library, as according to Lewisham Council, 'it's not in a vulnerable position'. It is however closing early (5.30pm). There was also a couple of police walking their beat up and down the road.

Anonymous said...

There is a community firefighting defense team meeting at 6pm tonight, opposite Ladbrokes (outside A K Continental)in Deptford High Street, if anyone is interested.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 17:03 : It would be interesting to learn why they took part.

Anonymous said...

Just walked along Brockley Road, very quiet, nearly all shops are closed except Morley's and the new fish & chip shop, by the way anyone tried the new fish shop yet?

Seb said...

Is there an update for the Brockley road area around Crofton Park?

Anonymous said...

So which food shops are open within walking distance of Ladywell?

Anonymous said...

The new chippie is great - service a bit slow as they make everything fresh but well worth the wait!

Anonymous said...

Somebody mentioned Plumstead fire station...Well, I've just walked along Lakedale rd and Plumstead high street, and it's all pretty much business as usual...

Brockley Nick said...

@Anon1713 - yes, there is a thread on it if you put Brockley's Rock in to the search box
@Seb - assume all fine unless you hear otherwise - lots of reports from there saying all well
@Anon1717 - Crofton Park (see above)

Hugh said...

There's a row going on down near Slough.

Seb said...

@ Brockley Nick
Thanks for that, just not sure whether to leave home to pick up some shopping or not.

Anonymous said...

@anon 17.15 - they do not like the million pounds victorian houses they were assigned to, or the weekly allowances are not sufficient to get to the end of the betting week drunk?

I really do not think it is relevant why.

Anonymous said...

Have you called the police Nick? (re kids chucking things around Brockley Cross?)

anon@17.32 said...

From the sirens it sounds like the police are there. Never thought I'd think hearing sirens was a good thing.

biff bifferson said...

right as of 5.30pm there is nowt going on in #lewisham town centre. loads of coppers but thats it. some nob tweeting his mrs said 50 got 'run' by riot coppers is miles off and ridiculous

bronsoir said...

@anon 17:00 - I did ask if anyone had a better idea! What will make it easy and attractive for yobs to cause damage is if the streets are deserted, hence I want to maintain a peaceful presence on the streets of Brockley. I would never try to stop someone intent on destruction. My take is that they are not highly motivated, just looking for easy thrills and free stuff and may be put off by a strong sense of community.

Re a cuppa vs rubber bullets (@headhunter 16.23): The way I see it, carrying a baseball bat is a sign of war, where offering an biscuit is a sign of peace and more likely to get a peaceful, favourable outcome. Anyhow, I'm going off to practice what I preach - strolling up and down Brockley Road. I'm wearing a blue and white stripey top. Come and say hi.

Anonymous said...

I heard 'Tickle Me' at Brockley Cross was smashed up! Is this true?

J. Wren Butler said...

Having just advised a tweeter that Upper Brockley Road is lovely and a great place to live, I am now considering retracting that statement. Seems like there was overspill from Brockley Cross shenanigans culminating in a vicious assault. Called it in but before ambulance and police arrived some of the victim's 'buddies' came back and threw him in a car.

London, you make me sad today.

biff bifferson said...

I agree with bronsoir, although there's a bit of me fancies smashing heads if they're at it again tonight

Ken said...

@bronsoir, that makes a sort of sense. Last night at least I think the police advice to "clear the streets" was exactly the wrong thing. That just leaves public spaces abandoned and vulnerable and most people at home isolated and scared. Better to stick together. And shopkeepers and the like who remained with their businesses and kept open for customers seem to have had a better chance of not being looted. (Well that was one of my excuses for staying in the Rising Sun all night... just doing my bit for peace and harmony)

oli said...

Agree with @Ken above, and off to the Royal Albert shortly. Neighbourhood solidarity.

Ken said...

And, part of the reason for thoise deserted streets is that there often were no police around when burglary and looting were going on. I saw someone trying to smash the windows of Mothercare in Loampit Vale and the sports shop next door about 8pm, there were police only about two hundred metres away by the High Street, but they were busy with other things. There were if anything fewer police round our way than on a normal night. But no-one tried anything on against the small shops only a few tens of metres up the road (thank God)

My guess is that the lack of police was because they went into crowd control mode - concentrating cops into large squads to defend territory and contain others in small spaces with supposedly "decent citizens" on the outside and bad guys inside. Now that might work against political demonstrations and football crowds where there is a large group in one place, and they are gathered to defend their territory or attack someone else's. But last night was mostly about small groups of looters, or even individuals, who didn't care about either territory or confronting the police. They were off to wherever the police weren't and pickings were easy. The very concentration of police in large armoured lines made life easier for looters who were doing their business outside their kettles whether a few hundred metres away in Lewisham or miles away in Enfield. The m,ilitary analogy woudl be heavy infantry trying to catch skirmishers. Doesn't work unles the skirmishers have a reson to stay oin the battlefield. That might be true of a Millwall crowd facing off a West Ham crowd, or of an anti-war demonstration in Trafalgar Aquare but it wasn't true about last nights looters. They didn't care where they were.

No expert in police tactics but I wonder if they would have been more successful avoiding the big lines and instead sending smaller mobile teams very quickly to any report of looting. OK, ten blokes in a couple of vehicles can't do anything about a real riot but most of the activity wasn't confrontational riot, it was smash and grab burglary. Rapid response might scare people off that. Some of them were just slighly pissed kids daring each other to have a go. If they thought there would be some police (or public) resistance they might just slope off and think better of it.

Anonymous said...

I'm in Los Angeles, and have a son at Goldsmiths, and he lives in Brockley. I'm very grateful to have found your blog so I can keep informed about conditions near him. Thanks for the updates both on the blog and from the comments.

Brockley Nick said...

You're welcome.

Anonymous said...

my daughter just walked up lee high road from lewisham to lee green - says its all quiet, shops are open, big police presence.

Transpontine said...

Some of the stuff that's getting reported might be serious but not necessarily have any connection to wave of riots - street robbery at Brockley Cross is sadly not unprecedented and fleets of police vehicles tearing up and down the road with sirens blaring is just standard - although seeing actual armoured cars last night was unusual (BBC reported it was the first time they'd been deployed in London).

There is an incredible appetite for information out there at the minute, the site stats at Transpontine when through the roof last night even though I had nothing about the riot - searchers for Woolwich riot would have got some interesting historical material about Victorian times but not much more! So good you're doing the live updates and sifting the facts from the rumours. I will leave off responding to various comments about the meaning of what's going on, that can wait for another, calmer day.

Anonymous said...

My opion would be to allow the Army to assist The Police and Fire Services, therefore freeing up Police to do jobs that are not riot related. I have a friend who was on there last night battered and bruised and again tonight, im sure he is chomping at the bit, however some may have suffered too much to go through it again straight away. Mean while other crime may get left, with major consquence.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know if any of the takeaways are open in Ladywell? We have hardly any food in the house and dying for a chicken kebab!

Anonymous said...

Sydenham High Street feels like a ghost town. Some youths hanging around but can tell if it's normal or they are waiting to kick off.

The only shops open are those owned/run by foreigners. Seems funny how the foreigners are happy to stand their ground and defend their property but the English cower behind shutters.

Brockley Nick said...

@Transpontine - I agree that this can't really be described as a riot - it's quite likely that the current febrile climate was used as cover by the people involved. But the speed of police response was related. They were on the scene in about a minute of trouble breaking out and there have been helicopters over head for a lot of today.

Anonymous said...

Just got back from London to Brockley on my motorbike, did a little tour of Brockley and Crofton Park and it all seems very quiet. Budgens is open and doing a roaring trade. Nothing to report from Brockley Cross through to Budgens, no one loitering around.

Molewife said...

It makes me very happy that Budgens, who are always friendly, cheerful and generally great, are benefiting from this :-)

Transpontine said...

Can I also apologise for spelling error in earlier post, relaxing with too much wine for this early stage of the evening.

@anonymous - the army don't have a great track record in civil disorder, sending them in to quell riots in Northern Ireland escalated the situation and sparked a 25 year armed conflict. Do we really want to see young kids (albeit some of them doing stupid things) shot in the streets like on Bloody Sunday? And what would happen next, if for instance some rioters got killed? Things could spiral very quickly, the police and army aren't the only ones with access to guns.

Anonymous said...

quite a large (35+) group hanging around outside and inside supercuts drinking. The usual faces of course but quite a number of unfamiliar hoodies there too, just across the street behind the memorial gardens

Anonymous said...

@molewife - completely agree. Such a nice family and always helpful and happy.

Headhunter said...

Yep, cycled past a large group hanging about around the war memorial, I didn't stop and kept my eyes ahead but there were about 50ish I thought, scattered across the road from Supercuts and round the corner on the side road bit of Lewisham Way...

Anonymous said...

when I reffred to The Army, I agree in regards to Guns, but give the Army battons and Shields, let them help put ouf fires. Most of our troops, I belive ar trained in Peace Keeping, we certainly moved on very quickly and learnt from the past. Extra bodys, who tak no crap.

Anonymous said...

youll also notice I said ASSIST not replace! :-)

Sally said...

Can I just say thank you for your updates. As a new business in Brockley Cross Ive been following you for two days to keep an eye on what is going on.

Headhunter said...

Transpontine - The army in N Ireland was entirely different though, essentially the situation there (although the UK government denied it) was war. We had 2 factions with entirely opposing and strongly held views (views with roots going back hundreds of years) doing battle. This is just bunches if youths looting for trainers and TVs with no ideology or beliefs... Of course deaths would be very regrettable, if needs must though, send the army in...

Anonymous said...

when I reffred to The Army, I agree in regards to Guns, but give the Army battons and Shields, let them help put ouf fires. Most of our troops, I belive ar trained in Peace Keeping, we certainly moved on very quickly and learnt from the past. Extra bodys, who tak no crap.

Anonymous said...

Anyone seen some of the proposed leaflets being distributed telling people not to grass on looters? Who the hell is writing these leaflets and handing them out? And why aren't police arresting them for doing so?

Anonymous said...

@HH yes, not the same situation but there were many instances of civil disobedience where the Army were acting as riot police with disastrous consequences that ultimately made the NI a more dangerous place. bloody Sunday?

May need the Army to provide extra bodies but if so under the command of the police. The army are not trained to use appropriate, proportionate force. Use with caution.

Helen said...

Anon1923
Because handing out leaflets trying to persuade people not to grass is not a criminal offence

Pete said...

@Transpontine, those armoured police trucks were used to clear the climate camp that occupied a road in the city during G20.

chris said...

this feed is great, very informative and its got a lovely light mood to it which is something we all need at this time. well done everyone. :)

bronsoir said...

Lap 1, Brockley Cross to Budgens and back. People still on the street, though it looks like less than normal. A choice of indian takeaways, plus Brockley's Rock, Fishy Business,, Bamboo Garden and a couple of others still open when I went past and Budgens has run out of semi-skimmed milk.

kolp said...

Good old Costcutters open, packed with shoppers, getting shopping extras. Stay calm, we'll be alright, Brockley has faced the luftwaffe, we can handle rampaging kids.

Transpontine said...

Had very nice supper courtesy of Broca supermarket, feeling a bit guilty that last time I did a big shop there was when the snow made it impossible to get to S****burys. Must try and spend some more money there in times other than national emergencies!

NR said...

@bronsoir It is now the time to cast off the shackles of semi-skimmed milk.

btw very much enjyed buying a battered sausage and chips in Brockley's Rock whilst the music system in there was blaring out 'Firestarter'.

LT said...

Thanks for the updates guys.

BrockleyFox said...

I just came back from Denmark hill / Camberwell. Four squid vans with "blue's 'n two's" on. then a pression of ten, yes TEN riot vans in a row. Some from as far away as dorset. I've never seen so many police. The local Co-OP was the only shop still open (but with shutters down over the windows) but had empty shelves. Nothing what so ever in the fresh, frozen and fruit & veg sections. As for Brockley, the local cafe's / news agents seem to be doing a roaring trade. Brockley Rock seems to be open, (and busy, which is good to see) and the bamboo garden are busy, and giving free fortunes cookies away with every meal.

The general mood between people seems friendly. No problems with race or religion. Good community spirit. It's sad to say, but the pressure has been building for a long time now, and as bad as this is, it's releasing this pressure. We should, and I hope, will, have a stronger and closer community in the aftermath. And I a extremely pleased to be living in Brockley right now.

Simone said...

Paddy wagon outside the entrance to Telegraph Hill Upper Park.

gibby said...

Am I the only one who had food indoors already?

Aricana said...

Really sad that the new co-op on the west side was so badly damaged. There was a long queue in NISA on Mantle Road this evening and 2 people serving. The shoppers seemed desperate to get home and the shop owners desperate to close!

keeping calm and carrying on said...

No, I have food too - fridge still reasonably full from the last grocery delivery.

I like Bronsoir's idea of keeping a peaceful presence on the streets, and I have a selection of musical instruments that I CAN play. I like the theory very much; just not sure how I would feel if I ended up with three hundred rampaging youths bearing down on me laden with bits of debris.

THNick said...

burnt out car on Telegraph Hill/Nunhead border. Oddly, no longer smoking so not recent but dont remember it this morning. Presumably a lunchtime mini-riot?

Food in the Fridge said...

Just to give a plug to the lovely Tesco man who received a recall to the depot, but decided to finish his delivery round before going back... what a nice guy

kolp said...

"relativist, platitudinous rubbish about the riots on their Twitter feed"

link please?

Marc said...

Helicopter circling Hilly Fields for the last 5 mins. Feels a lot more under control then yesterday, maybe the trouble makers have a day off whilst they ping pong with Manchester.

Marc said...

Helicopter circling Hilly Fields for the last 5 mins. Feels a lot more under control then yesterday, maybe the trouble makers have a day off whilst they ping pong with Manchester.

kolp said...

"Helicopter circling Hilly Fields for the last 5 mins."

I think they are after the BDS crew.

pip said...

Do you have a theory as to why they chose Eltham? I don't know Eltham, and only a bit about Milwall. Can you elucidate?

Raven said...

Yes, Eltham is trending on Twitter and now has the acolade of UK's top fascist (Griffin via Twitter) praising the 'English lads of Eltham' for 'resistance' ie. drinking in a pub for hours. They should be in good condition for when the looters arrive...

bronsoir said...

Lap 2: Brockley Cross to Budgens and back. Still quiet, Mr Lawrence just shutting up the bottle-o side, Budgens still open and well stocked, Shapla, EXP and Jerk Garden all open. The little green quickymart/internet cafe opposite Crofton Park station was decanting their stock into a van to take elsewhere for safekeeping. Stopping for a quick bite now but will do another lap after dinner. Everyone on the street has been friendly and willing to chat. Or maybe they always are but I haven't taken the time...

Anonymous said...

yes, groups of beered up footy 'fans' are well known for the calm they bring to a situation.

Hopefully they'll get lost, bored or confused.

Anonymous said...

there are about 40 youths gathered around the War Memorial along junction of Upper Brockley Road and Lewisham Way.

Anonymous said...

Great updates everyone, keep it coming :-)
This is one of the things which makes Brockley stand out for me - its very well-connected community.

Other than the occasional sound of distant sirens, all quiet in my neck of the woods and nothing to report.

Hugh said...

What exactly are this thread and all the other running commentaries for?

Anonymous said...

Blimey this sums it up much better than images of burning buildings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gex_ya4-Oo&feature=player_embedded#at=17

Raven said...

Well, there has also been talk of EDL being amongst Eltham's 'defenders'(not confirmed reliably). Now there's talk of more sinister things leading to this tweet just now from Cllr_Mike Harris:

"National Front: you weren't welcome in Lewisham in 77 and you're not welcome now". Not sure what is going on out there.

Would be more comfortable if the 'defenders' were a more diverse bunch - but I guess it's difficult to subject them to the Guardian reader test...

hamble said...

REports on twitter saying a large group of white men are walking to Lewisham from Eltham

Picture: http://yfrog.com/z/kigfslqj

Monkeyboy said...

Can I suggest that a selection of pork snacks are left in the path of the brave footy supporters? A trail of scotch eggs leading toward Deptford creek ought to do it.

Eric Blair said...

If it's any consolation the Manchester and Salford mob are whiter. Kind of screws with griffins theories (can just see him sitting there in his pants watching Sky News)

Anonymous said...

20 odd police just passed through brockley war memorial - seemed to leave as quickly as they arrived though...

Nim said...

Thanks for keeping this blog updated - I'm at the halfway point between Eltham and Lewisham on the Lee High Road so waiting to see if there's any updates on the Millwall / march post eerlier. A lot of sirens going back and forward.

Anonymous said...

mob at the War Memorial are on the move..not sure where they went

Anonymous said...

http://catchalooter.tumblr.com/

biff bifferson said...

nothing happening in lewisham town centre. went from top to bottom of high street, left at snooker hall then back round to lee high road. so nowt, despite the 'edl' or football 'lads' coming to take the kids back to school. it's 2 for 1 on coppers though. wetherspoons is still open. gets you right ere!

Anonymous said...

just had a drink outside the wickham arms and saw three police vans heading up upper brockley road.

Anonymous said...

"Here are 'Team Eltham' on the march towards Lewisham"

I dunno what time zone eltham is in, but that its been dark here in SE13 for quite a while.

either they're very slow, or that pic took an awful long time to make it onto the net, or they aren't really 'marching' anywhere.

Anonymous said...

don't know why the perceived, and almost certainly actual, racism of a bunch of white twats is more newsworthy than the equally certain racism of lots of the looters.

Brockley Dogging Society - Emergency Preparedness Commitee said...

The Francis Drake Bowls club has created a cordon around our usual spot. They are a magnificent site standing there (some are sitting to be fair) in their crisp white garb. The members in their mobility scooters have organised themselves into a rapid reaction squad, shouldn't laugh but when the race across the park, lights off, in silence and skittle over some yobs is immensely satisfying.

We have clashed with them in the past, some of our younger members have abused their billiard smooth lawn before, but when time are tough we know we can rely on our neighbours.

Colin iand big Jen are currently performing a symbolic missionary position session, safe in the knowledge that our nylon hipped friends are watching their backs.

Tomorrow Colin, in all his tumescent glory, will be guarding the entrance to the Drake club while they bowl. All welcome, show your support.

From The Edge said...

Just walked down to the war memorial on Lewisham Way and there's no sign of any kind of mob or gathering.

Anonymous said...

Mob's gone..all 40 of them. They disappeared about 20mins ago

Ken said...

Negative data point from Lewisham Station & Loampit Vale - all quite normal at 21:30 and next few minutes. Lots of police vans moving in both directions but that IS normal here. I think I can hear sirens from Brookmill Road.

Anonymous said...

apparently a 40 strong mob are on their way down to Lewisham via Loampit, any confirmation?

Anonymous said...

Well done for that inflammatory and probably incorrect tweet about the "march", which is now all over Twitter. Please check information before tweeting or blogging it.

Anonymous said...

loving catchalooter, shame I don;t recognise any of these scumbags. particularly like the fat bint stealing crisps. let's hope she dies early from heart disease.

Anonymous said...

Has no-one else seen the two fire engines and police car down on Lewisham way (near the memorial: the road just off, where the building work is)?

Transpontine said...

Slightly one-sided to day that Deptford Social Centre Plus 'prevented the Deptford Project owners from opening a new social enterprise in Deptford by squatting in their premises'. It is true that Deptford Project were planning a temporary art related project in the old job centre (though the building was not their's, it belongs to a developer), and this did not come to fruition as a result of the squat.

However, they were only there for a short time and the building is now being used by another art project, Utrophia, so no loss there. The social centre then moved next door to an empty building and got hundreds of people through the door in what would otherwise have been a derelict space - it is in fact now being demolished.

Nim said...

Can't see anything but we've got the choppers overhead here at Lee Green, have been for about 20 minutes now. Traffic still on Lee High Road though so not shut. News has said Eltham high street now shut.

Sue said...

Ladywell : My neighbour told me that both Rumbles the bakers (Algernon Rd) and Corals (Algernon Rd) got broken into last night and the Rumbles had their till stolen. Not sure if this is fact or rumour though. Several businesses, such as the barbers, have boarded up their windows as a precaution. Ladywell Tandoori, Tavern, chippy and kebab shop all open for business, as was Geddes, but everywhere else closed.

When I cycled to work this morning along Brookmill Rd, the cycle path was strewn with baby clothes hangers, presumably from stuff looted from Mothercare.

NAT said...

Talbot Quiz has gone ahead after questions asked.

hamble said...

LBC have apparently broadcast the news/ rumours about the marchers.

"j0annepsi - I'm actually *listening* to @lbc973 and they just mentioned it in the 10pm news bulletin. They could be wrong, of course."

Also- police are up by the Yorkshire Grey pub/McDs in numbers.

Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlZZwjY3vY4&feature=share

Anonymous said...

Choppers now overhead in Sydenham, not sure what it is related to, been hovering for a while now.

Raven said...

Photos are being posted of trouble in Eltham eg:

http://www.blottr.com/breaking-news/trouble-flares-eltham-se-london

There's trouble on Eltham High Street and at the Yorkshire Grey/McD roundabout
but I've got no reliable info about whether anyone other the 'defenders of Eltham' are involved.

The 'marching to Lewisham' suggestions seem to have gone away.

Brockley Nick said...

@Transpontine - no completely accurate summation, as your post seems to concede:

"It is true that Deptford Project were planning a temporary art related project in the old job centre (though the building was not their's, it belongs to a developer), and this did not come to fruition as a result of the squat."

Exactly. They had an agreement with the developer which fell through as a result of the squatters' actions.

"However, they were only there for a short time"

Yes, it was a stupid, self-indulgent piece of nonsense that was obviously not going to last long.

"and the building is now being used by another art project, Utrophia, so no loss there."

Unless you're the person who lost the opportunity to set up a completely legitimate enterprise and was treated to extraordinary abuse, I guess?

"The social centre then moved next door to an empty building and got hundreds of people through the door in what would otherwise have been a derelict space"

Which is what reasonable people suggested they should do in the first place.

Brockley Nick said...

@Anon2204 - it was all over Twitter already, hence the confusion. I corrected and apologised very quickly.

Anonymous said...

LBC are using the same flawed Twitter rumours as everyone else, unfortunately.

Sadly there are a number of sad-sack EDL types who have been trying their best to turn this into a race thing one way or another. Be careful what information you spread as not all is accurate and some deliberately inflammatory.

kolp said...

Give Nick a bit of break on the reports, it's easily done, I got confused over that leap from building picture yesterday thought it was real, then fake, then next I see it's all over the mainstream news.

laukf said...

Just drove back from Lewisham hospital via Ladywell - all seems quiet.

hamble said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
oryx said...

Just come back from a night out in Richmond and crossed a large tract of S London via the South Circular. Saw absolutely nothing, nada, zich, not a sausage. We went through Clapham Junction which was dead - didn't even see any police.

Streets are very quiet, though, as if it was Christmas or New Year's Day. Let's hope it stays this way.

John said...

Kolp,

Everyone should give Nick a break? You're quite right. Nick, you keep posting things that you aren't sure are true!

Anonymous said...

All seems quiet around Brockley Cross at the moment. Been told that there is a mass of people in central Lewisham however. I don't know if it's true and have not heard anything else about this on the news.

hamble said...

Nick- looks like Eltham DID kick off.
The scores of adult men running through the street are probably the source of the marching rumours.

http://www.twitvid.com/embed.php?guid=DWZPW&autoplay=0

bronsoir said...

Lap 2.5 (got waylaid at the Orchard): Brockley Road from Adelaide Ave to Brockley Cross and back. Quiet, shops now shut, atmosphere feels calm compared to last night. Hopefully it stays that way.

bronsoir said...

Oh yes, could smell smoke and burning rubber at around 23.45which seemed to come from north of the railway tracks.

Titchmiester said...

Nick - as a Brockley resident away on holiday I just want to say Brockley Central has been an amazing source of info today. Many, many thanks.

bumbags said...

On Upper Brockley Rd nr the Cross today a man was beaten up, head stamped on, trousers pulled down, trainers stolen, photographed (wtf?!) and left semi-conscious and vomiting. The car in the photo from Simon (blue ford maybe?) looks like the one that picked the victim up- the one that did had a smashed hatchback window- police have reg.
Horrific to see such ridiculous violence here.
btw- @ J.Wren Butler- you were brilliantly cool-headed.
Really hope the little &£^$ers have been caught and nobody seriously hurt.

Brockley Michael said...

Thanks Nick for sterling updates tonight and during the riots generally. Much appreciated.

Danja said...

Eerie total absence of sirens for hours. It is never this silent for more than 5/10 minutes near the A2/A202. It must be a policy.

It would be good if they realised it made things calmer and more peaceful generally rather than just now. Then again, maybe there's just no traffic on the roads and all the crims are tucked up in bed avoiding the 16k copper day.

Anonymous said...

Yes, the EDL did make it into Eltham ( [hindering police efforts] according to the BBC ) and they were amongst the Millwall supporters who seemed to have good intentions.

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/9185994.Police_disperse_EDL_Millwall_group_in_Eltham/

and see this video, where the group are clearly chanting EDL for any doubters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW4cUcCs1yo

and heres the one to show numbers:
http://www.twitvid.com/DWZPW

Danja said...

EDL built much of their hard line supporter base from trad hooligans esp the racist ones, so the lines are not clear. It isn't hard to find clues to the links, though.

judge rudy said...

by far the best and most accurate updates anywhere, far better than the (supposed) people with their ear to the ground on facebook (and yes i mean you steve) well done and a top job all round

judge rudy (aka alecks) brockley punk rocker

NAT said...

@Nick and Transpontine, Isn't the old Job centre now largely demolished. Utrophia are next door.

Transpontine said...

@NAT - yes that's right, I think that's what I said above.

@BrockleyNick - you clearly don't agree with the political stance of the Deptford social centre which is of course fair enough, but to describe it as 'self-indulgent' is a bit wide of the mark when the alternative use being proposed by Deptford Project was yet another art project which could equally be filed under self-indulgent.

Anonymous said...

I think there's a lot of self-indulgent rubbish coming out at the moment - there's no end of people wanting to claim the 'moral high ground'.

Personally I think the 'riots' have brought out the worst from this blog and it's narrow, tainted middle-class values.

That someone would wish to call the occupation of the job centre a 'stupid, self-indulgent piece of nonsense' speaks more for the person sitting on his backside than the people who were moved to take direct action to support a belief they have.

Brockley Nick said...

@Transpontine

That is a false equivalence and I don't believe you really believe what you are saying.

My views on their politics are irrelevant. I don't agree with the PBP either, but I applaud what they are trying to do with their own cafe, which has many of the same goals as the Job Centre Plus.

But there is no comparison between someone who had a well-thought-through business plan and a good local track record who has gone through all the proper legal processes and agreed terms with the landlord and a group that has a half-baked idea, takes it upon themselves to move in and then gets bored and gives up once the damage has already been done.

You also ignored the point about their shocking behaviour towards the prospective tennant.

@Anon - what are middle class values?

Welcome to 2011 said...

Middle class values =

- Rule of law
- Democratic process
- Wanting to be able to pop to the shops without them being boarded up
- Not wanting to get your head kicked in outside your house
- Not wanting the little shop you've been running to make ends meet for 20 years since you arrived as an immigrant with a dream of improving your life burned down by people who mutter something about it all being the fault of "the Conservatives or whoever"

These are all things that only middle class people care about and this blog, by attempting to tell people what's going on and whether they can get home safely is shamelessly pandering to these disgusting people.

:Rolls eyes:

Westsider said...

"Yet another art project"

Transpontine, I'm very disappointed to hear you talk like this as I normally respect your opinions.

Don't you agree that Deptford needs to create jobs? Don't you agree that Deptford needs to cultivate its reputation as a creative hub in order to improve its fortunes? Don't you agree that people of all backgrounds can benefit and enjoy art? You were very welcoming of Utrophia weren't you? Isn't that just another art project? And before you say that Utrophia moved in instead, don't you think it would have been good if we could have had both? Do you think Job Centre Plus was a success?

Westsider said...

@Anon

Why did you put 'riots' in inverted commas?

Anonymous said...

I also want to say thank you for this blog and comments so could be updated what was going on around ;)

Anonymous said...

Did the below event really happen. If it did I'm surprised it didn't feature in updates, ( or maybe it was just too banally real in its everydayness for BC to take note of?)


"On Upper Brockley Rd nr the Cross today a man was beaten up, head stamped on, trousers pulled down, trainers stolen, photographed (wtf?!) and left semi-conscious and vomiting. The car in the photo from Simon (blue ford maybe?) looks like the one that picked the victim up- the one that did had a smashed hatchback window- police have reg.
Horrific to see such ridiculous violence here.
btw- @ J.Wren Butler- you were brilliantly cool-headed.
Really hope the little &£^$ers have been caught and nobody seriously hurt."

Anonymous said...

Apologies I now see it appeared on your update as 'mucking around'. What jolly jipes!!

"On Upper Brockley Rd nr the Cross today a man was beaten up, head stamped on, trousers pulled down, trainers stolen, photographed (wtf?!) and left semi-conscious and vomiting. The car in the photo from Simon (blue ford maybe?) looks like the one that picked the victim up- the one that did had a smashed hatchback window- police have reg.
Horrific to see such ridiculous violence here."

Brockley Nick said...

No it appeared as "[Police] Confirmed one man beaten up and it appears they have caught someone for it."

I had no more facts at that time and can't confirm the details posted on this thread, though if true, they are of course hideous.

bronsoir said...

When I passed this morning I saw that the side window of the Coral opp Adelaide Ave was hit 3 - 4 times. It has spiderwebbed but not shattered or broken through.

Anonymous said...

Has that mad professor from Brockley raised his head above the parapite and spouted any wisdom on what's been going on in recent days?

Have certain tutors from Goldsmiths communictaed their thoughts yet?

Anonymous said...

Interesting snippet on the front page of this weeks Mercury.

The day after Mark Duggan was shot, reportedly in a mini cab, and before the riots by coincedence an incident took place in Forest Hill.

Two men suffered gunshot wounds after being attacked in the early hours of the morning.

Cops believe the gunmen travelled to the area in a minicab, then got out and the two victims, both aged 20.


Officers from Trident are investigating the crime.

That sort of thing is going on almost daily yet no street protests from members of the community, no riots.

Anonymous said...

Following the conviction of...

Dale Green, 17, Sportbank Street, Catford

Lamarr Gordon, 17, Gareth Grove, Bromley

Joseph Appiah, 16 Wicks Close, Eltham

Demar Brown, 16 Springbank Road, Lewisham

Claude Gaha, 17, Duddington Close, Bromley

Edward Conteh, 17, Kings Grove, Peckham

Terell Clement, 18 Warwickshire Path, Deptford

Sheldon Gordon, 23, Forest Hill

...for being involved in a killing the police have released a photo of two of the murderers shaking hands on a bus...'as a job well done'.

On 'You Tube' can be found videos biggin up these individuals.

Anonymous said...

None in Brockley....that will probably mean something to someone. "some people commit a bad crime, they live somewhere"

The constant shoddy analysis of crime and voyeristic obsession dressed up as outrage is a little sad....and weird.

MattyinSE9 said...

Rumours about EDL involvement in Eltham are so far unsubstantiated although I'm sure there were a few of them there.
Yes, I heard the EDL chants but not sure how representative that was, people there were adamant that it was not a racist situation.
Matthew Taylor a Guardian journalist who went down there tweeted “No indication of edl or other far right involvement in eltham at moment”. Later on another Guardian journalist there tweeted “This was mainly locals, not edl etc from outside, out to defend what many called ‘white working class neighbourhood’”

Check out #eltham on twitter.
“There was no bnp in #eltham tonite, no racist attacks, no marches, local people protecting their community.please stop the false lies”
“Right bed time. Its a shame what was a good bit of unity to protect our town has been twisted by lies into a supposed racist march! ”
“It wasnt just millwall fans protecting #Eltham it was the whole community!!! get it right!!! and it wasnt nothing 2 do with racism!!!”
“#Eltham residents are defending there area an not #EDL.. WELL DONE, the lefties tho think u look like them :/ which is skinhead drunk thugs”

And from BBC Radio 5 “markadoi84 We’re saying the opposite - no sign of EDL in #Eltham”

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