Consultation launched for Shardeloes Road substance misuse treatment centre

Jack has sent us the details of a consultation being carried out in relation to a proposed new substance misuse treatment centre. The link to the site is at the end of the article and we have reproduced the Q&A they provide below.


The current service

Lewisham Council and NHS Lewisham jointly fund a drug and alcohol treatment service. The service is currently based at New Direction, 410 Lewisham High Street. This is backed up by a service for users in the south of the borough at Dartmouth Road, Forest Hill. Many service users will also get regular services - such as repeat prescriptions and needle exchange - through their local GP or pharmacist.

The service has had some real successes but we think we could achieve much more if our sites were better located - so that service users from the south and the north of the borough were better able to access them. In particular, we have many service users in Brockley, Deptford and New Cross that would benefit from a site more local to them.

The proposal

We are proposing to establish a new treatment site in Shardeloes Road, Brockley. This new site would be the main service site for users in the north of the borough and, together with the Dartmouth Road site in the south, would mean service users from all over the borough would be able to travel easily to access the service. The New Direction site would become the main site for after-care, helping improve the overall service further by reducing the numbers of service users who relapse. We welcome your views on this proposal.

Why Shardeloes Road, Brockley?

As we want to cover a larger area of Lewisham to help more people access treatment, we aim to have a treatment service in the north of the borough. Most areas of the country have drug services based within local communities and Brockley has been identified as being in need of services to provide help and support to local people. The building is on the main road and has good public transport services. The railway station is close by, and bus services are frequent. It is therefore an ideal location, making the centre accessible to local residents. The building is appropriate for drug and alcohol treatment, as it offers space for the kinds of services and interventions required.

How can local people get involved and find out more?

We intend to provide high quality, effective services that improve the lives of both individuals and local communities. In order to ensure that our services meet the needs of the community, we continuously seek the views and opinions of local residents and people that use our services. New Direction staff will be organising opportunities for people to discuss the centres and their activities, which you are very welcome to attend. 

For details of drop-in sessions, venues, dates and times please go on to the Council's website at www.lewisham.gov.uk/consult . We are also happy to come along to other local community events to tell you more about the consultation and give you the opportunity to share your views. You can contact the service via the local council: Jason Browne: Drug and Alcohol Action Team, 23 Mercia Grove, Lewisham, SE13 6BJ. Telephone: 020 8314 3263 E-mail: DAATAdmin@lewisham.gov.uk Website

201 comments:

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FizzA said...

A much needed facility. Good luck to them.

Mung Nimby said...

NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxRmzq3Azs4

Anonymous said...

So much for the regeneration of brockley cross...

Charlie said...

If transport is one of the key criteria then this facility is better placed in Lewisham. Anyone local who needs this service can easily get to Lewisham. There are excellent transport facilities via the whole borough to there.

Local residents are mentioned as being in much need of the service, any statistics on this?

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know which building they are talking about? How close is it too the station?

BrockleyBiker said...

"A much needed facility. Good luck to them."

Seconded.

Anonymous said...

Crofton Park gets a cupcake store, Brockley gets a substance misuse centre - lovely!

Anonymous said...

'On the main road'? No, it's in a residential area. Why not have it in New Cross or on Lewisham Way, if access and transport are key factors? This is bizarre.

Mb said...

Thirded...

1) Not everyone believes we have a duty or that people with problems 'deserve' help. The fact of the matter is they live here and are part of the population. They may not thank you for it (although many will)Call me soft

2)even if you think it's self inflicted and not your problem, well there is a practical reason why it's a good idea. Leaving them to there own devices is worse than offering no help, look at the prison poulation to see how many have substance issues. Clean needles alone will reduce the chances of everyone picking up HIV or Hep C from 3rd party contact. If people are CHOOSING to seek help then it seems resonable that there is a proper facility for them. It's money well spent.

Location? well it needs to go somewhere. There could be an argument for a more appropriate location but if it's well run and presumably the users want to visit and get well it may well be fine. There will already be adicts visiting your local GP and geting their methadone from your freindly chemist, they already access services.

Tressilliana said...

"A much needed facility. Good luck to them."

Thirded.

Shardeloes is a main road. The 172 and the 171 both run up it and the 484 stops very nearby.

The situation at present is that there are people living in Brockley who misuse alcohol and other drugs and who may not be getting treatment. If putting the treatment centre nearer where they live makes them more likely to go there and get better, surely that's a good thing? They're in our midst anyway, and I for one would rather have them here and getting treatment than here and not getting treatment.

Matt-Z said...

@Anon 11.15 - The same residential area that includes a timber yard, MOT centre, car garage, weird church, offices, shops etc. Seems mixed use to me.

mb said...

Online consultation here...

Please try and think about it and not just object because addicts horify you! These are people who are trying to get well.

http://lewisham-consult.limehouse.co.uk/portal/community_services/crsp/das

patrick1971 said...

I agree that it needs to go somewhere. And I have no strong opinions either way, but just to throw this into the mix:

1. Lewisham Town Centre is hardly remote from the north of the borough

2. Is it better to have a facility like this in a non-residential area (Lewisham High Street) than in a residential one (Shardeloes Road)?

Charlie said...

Do local people really want other locals seeing them going into a specfic centre of this nature? There could be privacy implications.

Anonymous said...

I love the way that people in favour of this site assume that those who question it are doing so because of their views of substance abusers in general.

I heartily support treatment centres such as this, I merely query whether Shardloes is the most appropriate location for it. I would be interested to hear an explanation of whether they have tried to find a site nearer the borough-wide main road (New Cross Road/Lewisham Way), and if so, whether there is a lack of suitable premises?

Anonymous said...

This is just more placing Brockley in care. And I suspect that the only reason for this welcome consultation is the controversy surrounding a hostel in Manor Avenue and in an area already blighted by the need for all kinds of assistance. At least though it has made the council sit up and consult - and that means we must respond.

I would really want to know the logic behind this though. Yes these things do have to go somehere Mb and others, but why not in your roads? Why Shardeloes?

Another part of this that bothers me is the additional trade that emerges once these place are established. At least, if the treatment doesn't work, the users won't have to travel very far - to score that is.

Nick, why not include an A-Z to assist them.

mb said...

yep, I'm not horrified by the location but don't know specifically where it is - it's not my road but think I'd be ok if it was, IF properly run and supervised. Would be interesting to see why they didn't choose a less residential area but there is an argument that it needs to be where people live, not all addicts live on the streets - I susspect most don't. I remember living a stones throw from a needle exchange center in Sydney, didn't realise till I moved out. These places help everyone indirectly.

I suspect many will not want one anywhere and resent taxes and council funds being spent. Two different issues.

Anonymous said...

@Anon 12:03 ... seconded!

mb said...

It's not a hostle. The reality is that there are substance abusers out there and they live amongst us. The needle center in Sydney? much controversy...until the number of discarded needles fell dramatically.

Anonymous said...

Mb, I never claimed it was a hostel. I was pointing out that the stink kicked up about hostels revealed a lack of consultation - and we know why.

I must say though that your largesse astounds me. My child needs support and protection - why don't you do some fighting for her rights!

Anonymous said...

Ridiculous.

I used to live near a "treatment centre" in West London.

We used to have junkies hanging around ALL the time. Not good at all.

.....oh and better get a burglar alarm.

Thanks Lewisham Council.

Anonymous said...

Why is Lewisham Council only interested in regenerating other areas of the borough? All Brockley gets is hostels and substance abuse centres. This is ridiculous!

mb said...

Look at the link, thats for consultation.

As for the child benefit, yes happy to support and do so. This thread is about treatment services. Having treatment available is better for all of us than none being available.

Simmo said...

With you 100% anon

Let me get this right... is this bozo comparing Brockley to Sydney? If so take off those myopic glasses and look closer to home.

And whilst we're at it how many discarded needles have you noticed in Brockley?

Do give it a rest, mate!

Anonymous said...

I am not asking for child benefit, moron. I am asking for a safe environment in which my child may grow. People like you make me mad. This is the same sort of thinking that allows the council to target Brockley as some kind of swill bin!

mb said...

1) Ok, we have no addiction problems in Lewisham, none in Brockley?

2)So central government and Lewisham are choosing to spend money for no reason?

3) assuming you DO think there are substance abusers out there, you don't think it's appropriate to spend any money to help them stop

4) assuming you DO want to spend money and you DO think a specialist center is helpful, where should it go?

Stop ranting and look at the issue. Prtending they don't exist, or have no impact on you is being....myopic?

Charlie said...

These issues are always somewhat fraught and accusations about motives will fly, but it is important that anyone affected by this good or bad has their say, because you have to live with it. Also part of consultation is not simply just to say "yes, great", you have to tease potential issues for the benefit of service as much as the users.

At the moment people are just saying there are people who need this service that live here, there are no stats?

Further if there is lots of local demand is this because of the number of facilities already here such as halfway houses, hostels.

Is this a perpetuating situation?

Anonymous said...

Mb - obviously, the answer is somewhere more accessible and less residential, such as Lewisham Way.

mb said...

yes, that I conceed. Yhere may be a better location but I don;t think that's obvious. But as i said earlier, some on here just can't see why a properly run treatment facility is needed and resent paying for one.

Two seperate arguments and you need to get that straight in you head before filling in the online consultation.

Thankyou and g'night.

Anonymous said...

What is this site currently used for, does anyone know?
Presumably it's not a residential property?

Anonymous said...

Mb - but as I said above, most people on here expressing concern aren't objecting to the principle, they're just questioning the siting of the facility.
I think you're being overly defensive on this one, to be honest.

Anonymous said...

apprently it's going to be 181 Shardeloes road.

Anonymous said...

This one?

http://johnpaynecommercial.com/p/C2150/in/b1_b2_offices

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know the address of the proposed place?

Anonymous said...

They say that they want to serve north and south areas. The south service is in Forest Hill (neat an overground link) the north by Brockey station (Again on the overground link) two stops between them and both on the west side of the borough. Surely it would be better served to open the treatment centre on Lewisham high street or in new cross/ deptford. thereby using the train links via new cross, st john's and the like. Looks like some councillors living on the east side, (blackheath hither green) have bowed to pressure from the moneyed people.

mb said...

http://www.ldan.org.uk/documents/highs-lows2.pdf

Oldish figures....Lewisham is not as bad as some but worse than most.

Better than Hammersmith & Fulham, must be the Kings Rd.

Yes, I may be reading between the lines but I detect hysteria. If I'm misreading then appologies.

Is substance misuse a criminal or public health issue? Both actually, unless the law changes drastically.

Anonymous said...

There has been a substance misuse drop in centre at Brockley Cross for about 25 years. It closed fairly recently. If this proposed one isn't a residential centre I think it will just be a continuation of what has always been there.

Anonymous said...

@ Charlie 12.30:

Stats would be useful as while no doubt Brockley has a substance misuse problem I suspect it's far higher, New Cross and Deptford wards.

I suggest you use the Freedom of Information (FOI) Act to ask for stats, how they came to their decision for Shards to be selected, what other sites were considered. They have to respond within 20 days. It's a legal requirement.

for more information on FOI visit:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/governmentcitizensandrights/yourrightsandresponsibilities/dg_4003239


you can find out about other FOI requests here:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/?gclid=CKz7zZ_yv6sCFUPwzAodFTyrqw

Anonymous said...

What do you do if you want to object? Or does 'consultation' mean 'this is already approved'?

Anonymous said...

If it is that place next door to the Church then why are they planning on putting a substance misuse centre directly opposite the back of that takeaway where people go to buy drugs? Seems a bit self defeating.

Anonymous said...

I'd much rather they spent my taxes mending the absolutely awful road surface on Shardeloes than inviting all the skag heads round.

Anonymous said...

They should just open a coffee shop, dutch style.

BXSpy said...

If anon 12:43 is right on location, this is less than a minute's walk from Early Bloomers Day Nursery on Endwell Road, & same distance from the excellent Tea Dance for Little People. No no no! Total bloody disaster for the area if this is right.

bingeaholic said...

Heroin and cupcakes. Brockley in a nutshell.

Anonymous said...

Yes, proximity to a well-known and longstanding drug-dealing establishment isn't exactly very well thought-through, is it.
Still, I expect it will boost that part of the local economy - local dealers will be rubbing their hands with glee.

Nimby killa said...

@BXSpy

Yes because drug addicts inject children don't they. What does it matter that it's near by? The main road is far more dangerous in terms of safety.

Anonymous said...

A lot of us clearly object to this - does anyone know how we can put a protest towards this. Can we get our local councillor involved? Maybe we could get the Brockley Cross Action Group involved?

Hmm said...

Second the comment earlier - there was a needle exchange for ages at Brockley Cross and it did not noticeably cause any problems. It would be helpful to know exactly where on Shardeloes they are suggesting - the consultation document doesn't make it clear. Not that it makes a massive difference, but it would give some sense of the scale of the operation being proposed

Meg said...

I don't object to this at all, in fact I think it'll be good for the area in terms of local people getting the treatment they need and not indulging in more anti-social activities.

What's wrong with some people? You can't just sweep all of societies problems under the carpet.

Anonymous said...

Read the article, there are full details of who and how to register an objection.

Anonymous said...

13.57 - You mean this? Doesn't say anything about objections. Looks like the BXAG one already took place, anyone know what happened?

Consultation Events:
1) Brockley Cross Action Group AGM on Saturday 24 September, 11am - 12.30 at John Stainer School, Mantle Road Brockley.

2) Thursday 27th October 10 - 12am, 1 - 3pm or 6 - 8pm at St Andrews Church, Brockley Road, Brockley.

3) Wednesday 2 November between 10am – 12 noon, 1 - 3pm or 5 - 8pm at St Peter’s Church Wickham Road, Brockley.

If you would like to attend any of these events please let us know on 020 8314 3263. Depending on demand further consultation sessions may be planned.

Anonymous said...

Have your say via the Lewisham Council consultation survey here: http://lewisham-consult.limehouse.co.uk/portal/community_services/crsp/das

Or attend one of these consultation meetings: Consultation Events: 1) Brockley Cross Action Group AGM on Saturday 24 September, 11am - 12.30 at John Stainer School, Mantle Road Brockley. 2) Consultation Event: Thursday 27th October 10 - 12am, 1 - 3pm or 6 - 8pm at St Andrews Church, Brockley Road, Brockley. Consultation Event: 3) Wednesday 2 November between 10am – 12 noon, 1 - 3pm or 5 - 8pm at St Peter’s Church Wickham Road, Brockley. If you would like to attend any of these events please let us know on 020 8314 3263. Depending on demand further consultation sessions may be planned.

Anonymous said...

The online consultation survey is targeted towards getting views of local residents on drug use issues in Brockley and comments on how to make the new service more effective. There is however room to voice objections about location. It is not clear whether the decision to relocate the service has already been made or whether the public consultation might influence whether approval is given to relocate the centre.

Perhaps attendance ata consultation meeting will clear this up?

Ian on the Hill said...

I don't want to be NIMBY about this (although it's pretty far from where I am), but it does seem a very strange location.

I'd have thought that a shopping centre location in Lewisham proper would have been most suitable. And it's not very convenient by public transport from the rest of the North of the borough like New X and Deptford.

I doubt it will cause locals much trouble though if they do go ahead.

I am perplexed though, I though all Lewisham's Drug Services were for the chop?

Anonymous said...

I just took the survey, it's hugely biased (there are only opportunities to comment on the benefits rather than the detrimental effects and the questions are worded in a very pro-misuse centre fashion). Large parts of it are basically nonsensical too. But...I guess it is a good place to start if you have concerns. I will be going to one of the meetings to object as well.

whatever, man said...

Anonymous said...
Mb - but as I said above, most people on here expressing concern aren't objecting to the principle, they're just questioning the siting of the facility.
I think you're being overly defensive on this one, to be honest.

28 September 2011 12:39

MB just got called a bozo and a moron by other commenters and you're saying that s/he is "being overly defensive"? Really?

Seems to me that situating a treatment centre near a well-known dealing hub might be called an intervention rather than stupid. People that go to treatment centres want treatment, not to buy drugs and not to sully your hedge and not to somehow damage your children by their very existence.

I'm all for it.

Anonymous said...

I've lived near these sort of places before in Stockwell and Camberwell. Both times there were always loads of addicts hanging around, arguing with each other in the street etc. It's a terrible idea putting this in a largely residential location. A shopping centre or more central location is much more appropriate. Plus that area is poorly lit at night time.

Anonymous said...

Putting a drug treatment facility in a shopping centre ha ha, hilarious. Maybe there's some space in the new Westfield?

Reg said...

I do hope that the plans are not to site this at 181 Shardeloes, alongside Howarth's wood yard?

This is a crushingly bad location and will halt the regeneration of Brockley Cross. An area that already has its problems with drugs.

Why do you think that this is the location though, as there are premises further towards Lewisham Way?

I also feel that any 'survey' is a heap of bullocks - if the building above has been purchased by the council, or a private company, to use for that purpose. It would appear consultation is just a sham.

Anonymous said...

Interestingly, in October last year there was a proposal for a similar service to be situated in New Cross at 5 Desmond St, Lewisham, Greater London SE14. Does anyone know if this went ahead? If it didn't was this because of concern from local residents?
See: http://lewisham-consult.limehouse.co.uk/portal/community_services/crsp/new_drug_and_alcohol_misuse_service

Anonymous said...

Brockley Cross has no chance of regeneration if this goes ahead ...

Fattyfattybumbum said...

If you live in the Borough of Lewisham, this should be no surprise to you. You should expect to live with these sort of places amongst you.

These addicts already fill our streets, most mornings I see people drinking cider on my way to the station, so we may as well try and dry them out. The biggest problem for me is that these schemes don't often work and usually end up being a waste of taxpayer funds as the addicts are often too weak-willed to actually stop it.

??? said...

Will there be section 106 money to offset the impact of this facility on the community?

Anonymous said...

Brockley Cross has no chance of the kind of 'regeneration' that the word may conjure up. It will remain a road junction for the foreseeable future.

But people with a substance abuse issue will consider this regeneration, in fact, what better, more fulfilling regeneration can there be than getting a person to reject substance abuse and having a centre dedicated to this aim?

Brockley Cross, this is your fine future, embrace it.

Lou Baker said...

If they want it to help addicts in New Cross and Deptford then surely it should go in New Cross or Deptford.

And not on a semi-residential street near a school.

Charlie said...

If someone is struggling with a deep addiction it would be far more convenient for them to have their methadone or whatever service delivered to their home rather than have to go all the way on the bus or train to a residential area in Brockley.

so maybe it would be better that instead of service users going to the centre, the centre goes to them, like a mobile library. This would save on the rent or purchase of a building, an important consideration in these financial times and it means that New Cross & Deptford service users have easier access to the facility.

Anonymous said...

If they want it to help addicts in New Cross and Deptford then surely it should go in New Cross or Deptford.

@Lou This has been designed to help Brockley addicts too!

TheOracle said...

Is this a scheme by the Ministry of Justice?

This is the link for New Direction - Lewisham:
http://cri.org.uk/newdirection_lewisham.php

If so, the link from its site marked Criminal Justice indicates the possible client group.

“We provide support and treatment for individuals who have been arrested for crimes related to drug and alcohol use. Staff work in police stations, courts, prisons and the community, providing comprehensive services that promote rehabilitation and prevent re-offending. “ [See http://cri.org.uk/cj.php]

There is also a job being advertised for the ‘new’ service, should anyone choose to apply. [See http://cri.org.uk/jobs.php?id=5143]

Nurse - 6 Months Fixed Term Contract
Lewisham Integrated Substance Misuse Service
Reference: KC625
£29,255 to £34,061 per annum incl ILW
Hours: 37.5 hours per week
CRI are delighted to have been commissioned to deliver a new Integrated Substance Misuse Service in Lewisham.

With experience of substance misuse services and a thorough understanding of treatment interventions, candidates will hold a current nursing qualification, work effectively within a multidisciplinary team.

In return for hard work, professionalism, dedication, and a passion for social justice, we will offer excellent terms and conditions, a comprehensive career development plan and the support you will need to really make a difference to service users’ lives.

CRI are committed to ensuring the safeguarding and wellbeing of children and vulnerable adults, and all applicants will be required to demonstrate understanding of and commitment to best safeguarding practice.
Closing date:
7-10-2011

GOOD LUCK

Mb said...

It's not just for methadone, which they can already access at local chemists, I've seen them - Including crofton park. It's to get access to treatment programmes, face to face with people who can help, group work etc. Isn't it? A van full of outreach workers rumbling through the borough sounds less efficient, not more. Substance abusers already usenyour local GP. In fact you may well have been sitting next to them while waiting for your wart to be seem to.... Actually treatment centres attached to a GPs surgery could be an idea except they are often in residential areas.....difficult isn't it?

On balance I'm not horrified so long as it's run well and is reviewed regularly. There will always be some who are beyond help, I doubt this place will appeal to them anyway.

Anonymous said...

It's totally the wrong place for the service. Transport links are limited. 171 and 172 on exactly the same route and the piddly 484 is not going to serve all the people with substance misuse issue in Deptford, HIther Green, New Cross not to mention all the other wards on the east of the borough.

A far better solution would be either the Waldron Centre on Amersham Vale or the NHS walk in clinic in New Cross on Goodwood Road. Why spend more money on renovating a skanky building when you've got two purpose built health clinics that I'm sure are more equipped to help people on the road to recovery.

Yes, I'm sure brockley has it's fair share of substance abusers but I bet you that there are a damn sight more in NEw Cross and Deptford, plus there are about 9 different buses that pass through and reach a greater area of the borough.

Lou Baker said...

How about sending them all to the middle of the countryside or an island or something where they can be forced to stay until they are cured of their addiction?

The problem with having this stuff in a dodgy part of London is that they can go straight from the addiction centre to their dealer.

While I have some sympathy for them it's not as though you can conceivably end up addicted without knowing the risks. It's not as though we're not told from the age of 3 that smoking, drinking and drugs can be dangerous. If, despite this, you become addicted anyway society should help you BUT it should be tough love. No half measures. Wilderness boot camp. That's what we need.

Mb said...

....meanwhile back on planet earth.....

Anonymous said...

And we know there are enough dealers in and around the area which the council, safer neighbourhood teams, PCSOs could do something about but choose not to. (Bunch of muppets.)

Lou, you've missed a stage between, going from the treatment centre to their dealer. Break in to a nearby house to fence some goods or mug a passer by coming back from the train station.

There

Anonymous said...

There are plenty of people in the Con. area that enjoy recreational drugs on a regular basis, please don't tar them with the "junkie robbing houses" brush. That's like equating mung eaters sipping wine with drunks on park benches. Far too broad.

Still, not in my back yard etc.

Anonymous said...

@ anon 20:06: you're right there are plenty of "recreational drug users" in the con area. And arguably they are just as bad, but because they are functioning substance abusers and can afford it - they are, and wrongly, largely ignored or worse accepted because they aren't hurting anyone are they?

Their drug use, supports organised crime, human trafficking and all other odious types of crime.

And actually yes there is a bit of MIMBY in me because I don't want to live next door to a treatment centre. I assume you've never lived next door to a treatment centre or worked with people with D and A problems. Well I have and it's a bloody nightmare on so many levels.

TheOracle said...

I posted some information on this, which seems to have been removed. Why?

Legend said...

BrockleyNick, would you mind telling me who "Jack" is, and what avenue he used to get to you? Could you also tell me where you stand on this?
Thanx

Lou Baker said...

@anon 2006

You're right. And I - for one - believe there is a very strong argument for legalising drugs. Plenty of people are recreational drugs users - and don't ever become addicted.

However, while drugs are illegal taking them is incredibly immoral. You might think you are hurting no-one. Today - in Mexico - five heads were left decomposing in a bag outside a primary school. These are the real victims of drugs - along with tens of thousands of other this year alone.

Still, it's nice for you to snort a line when you fancy it eh?

Jack said...

Why do you want to know who I am Legend?

Anonymous said...

Brockley Nick is on holiday.

Anonymous said...

Ridiculous. This should be sited in a less residential amd more blighted area. Also what if the "junkies" get confused with the double mini-roundabout and get run-over thereby causing congestion?

Bullocks said...

I fully support this scheme. I have found the perfect location - Tyson Road, Forest Hill.

TheOracle said...

If Nick is away who is moderating?

Anonymous said...

Most of the drugs I know that are bought locally are grown in lofts and sold to mates.

Now you can try and equate that with people being thrown into the sea and having their heads sliced off in Bolivia, but it doesn't have look like something from the red paranoia days.

Anonymous said...

Lovely,can't wait for the muggings and burglaries to be on the up...

shards resident said...

@ tressilliana: 11:52am

And if it was on your at the bottom of your road would you be so accepting? Don't think so!

Legend said...

tressilliana is always very liberal with other people's roads.

look at this link and you will seee how the whole deal unravels...
http://tinyurl.com/3vgwxps

Anonymous said...

If this centre is, as claimed, aimed at people in New Cross and Deptford, as well as Brockley, then it makes no sense to have it on Shardloes - if you're coming from New Cross or Deptford the transport links are far better to get to Lewisham Way, New Cross Road or central Lewisham. It would take 2 buses to get to Brockley (change at New Cross Gate).
Geographically Shardloes might be 'central' for the New X/Deptford/Brockley area (I haven't checked on a map), but logistically it makes no sense.
It is also, sorry guys, primarily a residential area. The presence of some relatively small industrial/commercial units doesn't change that. It in no way compares to New Cross Road/large sections of Lewisham Way/central Lewisham, in terms of the usage classes which are present.
It seems an odd decision.

Anonymous said...

That survey is hilariously biased.
I recommend it to anyone who fancies a laugh.

Anonymous said...

The ironic thing is Lewisham closed down the Alcohol Recovery Project on New Cross Road. Which the Allotment is taking over. This service provided IT training, rehab, group and one on one therapies and outreach work.

It seems to me that Lewisham's strategy takes a short term view rather than a long-term view.

Anonymous said...

Is there a way we can put a petition together or raise this with our local councillor? The "survey" is clearly not the way to object to this.

Paddy said...

I looked at the link provided. It's a young offenders management programme, promoted by Mayor Steve Bullock and his officers. The 'strategy' is to move these units to Brockley.

Anonymous said...

I suggest that people reply to the consultation by writing their own opinions about the proposals into the boxes, rather than answering the very leading questions which have been posed.
That's probably not sufficient, of course, because they will then naturally exclude any comments which are deemed 'not relevant'.
But it would be a start.

Anonymous said...

Paddy, can you point out on what page this explicitly refers to moving the units to brockley

Anonymous said...

do not complete this survey, which has been craftily drafted. From the Oracle posting which Nick removed? we know the council is not dealing a full deck. The house of course wins. Only not this time

Anonymous said...

The survey is hugely biased. I suggest people email their concerns to:

Aileen Buckton, Executive Director for Community Services: aileen.buckton@lewisham.gov.uk

(She kindly wrote to me and enclosed the meaningless consultation survey. She even invited me to attend a consultation meeting on 24th September at Brockly Cross Action Group. Sadly I was unable to attend due to the survey being posted, by hand through my letterbox. Surely not a cynical ploy to reduce the consultation window.

Other people you may wish to email are:

Brockley ward councillors
Cllr_darren.johnson@lewisham.gov.uk
cllr_vicky.foxcroft@lewisham.gov.uk
cllr_obajimi.adefiranye@lewisham.gov.uk
The Mayor: steve.bullock@lewisham.gov.uk

MPs
joan.ruddock.mp@parliament.uk

George said...

forget councillor darren johnson he's in bed with council opinion on brockley

Brockley Nick said...

@theoracle

"I posted some information on this, which seems to have been removed. Why?"

No, not removed. Google didn't like your link littered post and sent it straight to the spam bin without it ever appearing. I have now retrieved it. The fact that the post never appeared in the first place thus raises another mystery - namely how "anonymous" knew what your links referred to?

@Legend
"BrockleyNick, would you mind telling me who "Jack" is,"

A Brockley resident, why? Who are you?

"and what avenue he used to get to you?"

Email, why?

"Could you also tell me where you stand on this?"

Dunno, why?

@Anonymous

"Brockley Nick is on holiday."

No I'm not. If you're referring to my tweet about the Four Seasons Hampshire, I was there for work today and have been looking at secondary schools this evening.

Trev said...

Cllr Adefiranye is the person to go for. He' been around some time and dont take no shit.

Anonymous said...

Sorry bit too click happy, I should clarify, although the invitation to find out more about the proposals on the 24th at brockley cross action group were welcome, it's a real shame that I received the invitation yesterday and thus denying me the opportunity to find out more.

I would like to think this was the council being inept but it does make me wonder whether it was intentional

Anonymous said...

So, Nick, why dont you 'dunno' where you stand? Will you know soon?

Brockley Nick said...

why?

Anonymous said...

How many of you who are in a spluttering rage would not have heard about this or who to contact had not Nick posted it?

Jesus, the lunacy on here is staggering.

Anonymous said...

Don't understand why people are having a go at Nick, he only posted it, it's not hist job to have an opinion about absolutely everything ever, is it.
If you want to argue with someone, ask your local councillor. Arguing with morons is part of their job.

TheOracle said...

Nick, I don't know what you mean by my 'link littered' post.

It is no more littered than other posts received here at times. It has also been backtimes to when it was posted? Please explain.

I do also send copies of my posts to others, who may have read it and commented. This may help clear up your little mystery.

By the way, what do you think of this proposal?

Oops need to double click again...?

Welcome to 2011 said...

Whoops, has oracle been caught sock puppeting.

Anonymous said...

Sorry Anons... I wasn't having a go at Nick. I think he's bloody brilliant! I just wanted to know what his opinion was about that plan to do this. Why is his opinion off limits?

Brockley Nick said...

Oracle no I can't explain - contact Google if you want to understand the mysteries of their algorithms. Sometimes it blocks things that aren't spam and sometimes it lets stuff through that is. Hey ho.

The very fact that it is back in the comment list at the time when it was originally posted is itself evidence that it wasn't my moderation. If I delete something, I can't get it back.

Anonymous said...

Welcome to 2011 said... ?

TheOracle said...

Thanks for explaining that, Nick.

If I understand it correctly Google decided to block it, then, following my puzzlement, unblock it, and replace it at the time it was posted?

Makes sense.

Anonymous said...

Brockley Nick, a substance misuse centre is opening near you. Have you any comment?

Brockley Nick said...

No Oracle, as I said in my first post, Google sent it to spam limbo where it lay with a load of ads for Chinese porn. Then when you raised the issue I kindly went and clicked on the "not spam" button, meaning that it was moved back in to the published comments stream.

You're welcome.

Doubleclick said...

???

TheOracle said...

Okay, Nick... in future I will cut and paste without links.

Good night.

Anonymous said...

There's more to this than meets the "I".

Anonymous said...

If a centre already exists - why not collect those who have trouble accessing it rather than opening up centres all over the place - also take them back home so they are not hanging around as they are at the centre in lewisham.

questions said...

I can't support the centre being located on Shardeloes road because there is insufficient information. We HAVE to know in advance HOW this centre is likley to affect life in Brockley, good or bad.

Glib accusations of Nimbyism are just as irresponsible as those comments that demonise substance misusers.


How many people does the centre expect to serve?

If there are anti-social problems related to the centre's presence in the locale, what policies are in place to address it?

Brockley has a fairly strong community spirit how will the centre become part of our community?

Anonymous said...

Chinese Porn Crackers...

Anonymous said...

Oh no! This is a terrible thing for the area. Is there a petition against this somewhere I can sign?

Anonymous said...

@Lou 21:33 - What a complete load of nonsense, you've just contradicted your own first point completely. So whilst it's illegal we should all bury our heads in the sand and just follow the forever saving us system

Tressilliana said...

For the record, if this centre was going to open on Tressillian Road my opinion would be exactly the same. I'd rather have some treatment going on than none. The substance misuse is happening all over the area anyway. The arrival of a treatment centre in SE4 is not of itself going to create more of the problem.

And on another point, I think the law on substance use is a mess and needs sorting out but while cannabis production is illegal I think it does do society harm to produce it on a commercial scale and pay no tax on the profit. Cannabis use does have health consequences, especially if it's smoked or taken by adolescents with a genetic susceptibility to schizophrenia. The link between heavy cannabis use and schizophrenia seems pretty strong.

danniela martine said...

i saw that post the oracle put up about lewisham's involvement before it mysteriously dissapeared...strange that....there one minute, gone an hour later. now its back. anyway Brockley Nick whats your opinion on this location, you live nearby and are normally very vocal on such topics. you seem oddly silent do you have a duty to Lewisham council ?

Anonymous said...

I think the concern is not that there will be treatment for substance misusers in Brockley, but more that it will be attracting substance misusers from many other places - do we really want Brockley to be the centre point of this kind of thing?

TheOracle said...

You should be provided with all the information, not just that portion which makes it sound reasonably appealing.

After all, who in their right mind would not want a good and just society equal for all - including drug abusers?

I will not include links as Google does not like them. But this intiative is managed by the CRI - the Crime Reduction Initiative. A UK registered charity (number: 3861209) in Brighton.

It operates under a DTTO.

"Drug Treatment and Testing Orders are aimed at drug misusing offenders whose offending is directly related to their drug misuse." (Source CRI.)

So not just misusers of drugs, but criminal offender too. A treatment centre and a bail hostel is a double whammy for Brockley.

Information that may not help you decide, but at least armed with it you can draw a conclusion on what Lewisham Council is getting you in to.

get real said...

Brockley Cross is hardly going to turn into Hamsterdam, so stop this reactionary guff.

Why should Brockley Nick have to have an opinion on everything, he's not the prime minister of Brockley ffs...

TheOracle said...

Nick, already explained that.

On another note... the post of head of regeneration at Lewisham is ending next month..?

TheOracle said...

That should have read as a response: as in "Nick already explained that", and was not aimed at Nick as such.

danniella martine said...

Head of Regeneration thats a chap called Malcolm Smith i think. i thought he had another post on the Council . fairly sure i have seen his name on some documents , something to do with strategic stuff

Questions said...

What I don't like about this discussion is that way that people with legitimate and reasonable concerns are being dismisses as nimbys, reactionaries and worse of all as who don't substance misusers to get treatment. REPEAT this about how this affect Brockley.

People go on about vans, and branded shops, even nurseries affecting where they live yet a substance misuse centre serving New Cross, Deptford will located in Brockley Cross and we're not supposed to have any thoughts on it?

We've seen how the people of UBR road appear to suffer, because of users of shop. We need to head off any these possible issues and we do that honestly discussing the likely implications and prepare responses in conjunction, with the relevant bodies.

Anonymous said...

Congratulation to those who have voted in the current Council.

The destination of the area is pretty clear: Hostels for ex convicts and help centers for drug and alchool abuse.

I would say it is pretty clear the way Brockley is going to go if Council officials decide.

The resident ask for regeneration and the Council piss on them by opening hostel and drug abuse centers.

I hope this is a good lesson for the next elections.

Anonymous said...

11:08: Agreed! We are all pushing for regeneration and have to do so through private groups, all the council does is put in hostels and drug centres. Where is their plan for Brockley like they have for other areas (eg Sydenham)

Anonymous said...

I too read the Daily Mail and am outraged at the suggestion of a centre for people who need help in some way! Send them all back, to hell in a handcart!

I buy free range eggs and think I'm an amazingly humanitarian person until it comes to helping humans!

Anonymous said...

This is nothing compared to the vitriol of a children's' nursery opening in Brockley.

Suggest those who disagree with the centre should start a survey of traffic conditions and check how much extra parking the drop off and collection of needles is going to cause.

Anonymous said...

The best person to write to is Fiona Kirkmam (fiona.kirkman@lewisham.gov.uk). We should all write to her and raise our concerns - the more people who do this the more we will have a voice.

Mb said...

Extra traffic from those picking up needles? Like the non existant queues outside the chemists that have been giving out needles for years?

Even ken Clarke has said that treatment should be easier to access, we all benefit. It's a lewisham treatment centre, not new cross or brockley. There MAY be an issue with too many in the area but that's far from clear.

Of course I may have misinterpreted the nuanced objections from the more shrill anons. I'm glad that lewisham recognises that effective treatment is one of the ways of tackling abuse, disaproving and arguing that it should go 1/2 a mile away (still near peoples homes and schools) is splitting hairs.

Excellent to see the conflation of type of food eaten and objections to nurseries and treatment provision. Not sure that illuminates the issue.

If it's any consolation I live about 5 mins away and walk near there every day. I've been approached by a well known local crack addict a couple of times, didn't feel threatened, felt mildly depressed. I whish there were fewer addicts, think we'd have that with less provision?

Anonymous said...

I would be in favour of a substance misuse centre in Brockley or anywhere else as long as the people who use it go there because of their own desire to stop using said substance.
If people are sent there as part of an offenders scheme or under threat of punishment if they do not go, I would be strongly against it. The first rule of treating addiction is that the person being treated has to want to stop using. It never works as a punitive sanction and I wouldn't want people attending such a place in my neighbourhood who were angry about having to be there!

Anonymous said...

Mb that fact that you didn't feel threatened will make a lot of women feel much safer. Thanks.

Shardeloes Road Resident said...

Anon 12.11 is right. If you feel strongly about this then the best thing to do, at this stage, is get something in writing to the councillors and attend the consultation meeting. Thanks to those who have posted email addresses for the relevant people.

The next consultation appears to be on:
Thursday 27th October 10 - 12am, 1 - 3pm or 6 - 8pm at St Andrews Church, Brockley Road, Brockley.

Can anyone provide any tips on the best way to frame concerns so that they are most likely to be taken seriously? I have various issues with the centre's proposed location, ranging from the threat of potential crime and disorder to the fact that this is a largely residential area, but not sure which they have to listen to.

Thanks

questions said...

Just speak from the heart, say that you understand that there is a need for substance misuse centres but you have concerns and state honestly what those are.

Brockley Nick said...

@danniela

"Nick whats your opinion on this location, you live nearby and are normally very vocal on such topics. you seem oddly silent do you have a duty to Lewisham council?"

I'd have thought most people would think it a good thing that the editor of this site doesn't immediately start proselytising on a subject about which he knows nothing and is happy to publish the information and listen and learn from the opinions expressed by others here.

When I express opinions, I do like them to be at least partially informed ones - that's why I'm always right. The stuff I might be wrong about I keep quiet about.

I am forever being accused of being influenced by one vested interest or another - now, on a subject where I have a clear vested interest as a nearby resident, I choose not to let personal feelings sway my editorial approach and you accuse me of corruption (natch). Ridiculous.

If you want knee-jerk reactionary bollocks from the author, then 'there are other places where you can find that stuff...'

wtf said...

When I express opinions, I do like them to be at least partially informed ones - that's why I'm always right.

Must be satire!

Brockley Nick said...

@WTF - well spotted.

Anonymous said...

Everyone who feel strongly about this proposal please turn up to one of the consultation periods on Thursday 27th October.

Mb said...

Anon @14:36. I'm not so arrogant that I'm claiming to speak for all or some woman. Do you think they can all be lumped together with a single view and if so you can speak for them? Yes people feeling unsafe (real or perceived) is an issue, I won't be. I'm speaking for myself. Glad to see your representing 50% of the population.

Anonymous said...

Mb, without your concerns for their safety I guess I'm all that's left.

By the way, women are not '50% of the population'.

My concerns are for those women, and men too, who may feel thrreatened by this. Not all will, as you have proven. And you speak for everybody.

Anonymous said...

"writing to the councillors and attend the consultation meeting."

that will no impact at all on the issue, it might make you feel better, but the Council will make it's mind up (well, steve bullock will) and then the process will be put into action (or not) - the council takes no notice of residents and councillors are utterly powerless

Anonymous said...

Then why is it called a consultation?

Anonymous said...

the council are obliged to hold these sort of things, (that said they may not have an obligation to hold a consultation for this issue, it may just be PR) they are not, however, obliged to taker any notice of any information they might gather from them

Anonymous said...

Ok if they are just a consultation, how bout we get a petition together? They are easy to set up online ...

Monkeyboy said...

No I don't speak for everybody, I speak for my self, some people who agree with me, some wont. Some men, some women.

You speak for yourself, some will agree, some won't. Some will be men, some will be women.

I'm struggling to see why any of that needs spelling out.

Mb said...

....women are not 50% of the population? Ok, erm....females? Of adults, about 50% are women.

I'm missing the point perhaps.

Anonymous said...

petitions are ignored by the Council as well, but they can do a good job of spreading information and communicating with people if signatures are gathered in the 'tradition' manner. An online petition, in this instance, would be worthless

SAID SAID said...

"I'd have thought most people would think it a good thing that the editor of this site doesn't immediately start proselytising on a subject about which he knows nothing and is happy to publish the information and listen and learn from the opinions expressed by others here."

have you learnt anything yet?

"When I express opinions, I do like them to be at least partially informed ones - that's why I'm always right. The stuff I might be wrong about I keep quiet about."

are your opinions partially informed yet?

"I am forever being accused of being influenced by one vested interest or another - now, on a subject where I have a clear vested interest as a nearby resident, I choose not to let personal feelings sway my editorial approach and you accuse me of corruption (natch). Ridiculous."

but is it? you could be a little too close to the council, and so afraid of commenting

"If you want knee-jerk reactionary bollocks from the author, then 'there are other places where you can find that stuff..."

what's wrong with a bit of kneejerk reactionary bollocks from you - isn't that what the sites about, or accused of being about? do you feel 'above' some of your kneejerk reactionary followers then?

come to think of it, don't editors usually comment on things they know about and if they don't know about them don't they, well, find out things - rather than watch, and learn, and say, well, nothing? other than on behalf of the council that is.

Brockley Nick said...

"but is it?"

Yes.

"afraid of commenting"

Ha.

"isn't that what the sites about,"

No.


"do you feel 'above' some of your kneejerk reactionary followers then?"

Yes!

Anonymous said...

Utterly hopeless Council. Some of you think there is a great vision behind the decision. You may be surprised to know that is just an opportunistic decision, like the decision about the hostel was an opportunistic one.

Lewisham Council has never really shined amongst Councils for their strategic and long term views, hence they score always at the bottom of any significant ranking.

Dan said...

Is it good drugs users are treated in local centres. YES

Would i want a centre on my road. NO

Simple

SAID SAID said...

ridiculous, Brockley Nick"

but is it? press officers often cosy up to large organisations. there doesn't need tobe anything wrong in this it's a good source that helps a blog grow in importance, etc.
the problem surfaces, and this is your position perhaps, that you can't be seen to have a go at the source for fear that it will dry up.

like the german neighbour at the camp gates, is it simply (and more conveniently) safer to say that you did not know what was going on inside.

So, let's try again...

nick, have you learnt anything yet?

are your opinions partially informed enough for you to comment on this drug centre?

if not, will they ever be?

and if not why not?

Anonymous said...

Mb, I think the point your missing is that you seem to suggest that women are 50% of the Brockley population. Whatever it is it's the woman in the street who feels unsafe. And that is what a gentleman should care about. And you sir are no gentleman!

Danniella martine said...

Mr Nicholas I actually wasn't suggesting corruption . Far from it but merely that you are restricted in some way your hands are tied so to speak . You maybe are finding it difficult to comment because of the small print (no not the screen size) of the contract?

Anonymous said...

The service is being run by a crime reduction intitiative http://cri.org.uk/ - I think they're trying to reduce crime in other Lewisham wards and concentrate it in just one borough. On the plus might one might just spot pc plod in the area as a result. I won't hold my breath.

Brockley Nick said...

It interests and entertains me that the BCers who hold my integrity in least regard are most interested in my validation.

Here are my thoughts:

1. If you want to know what someone thinks about something, ask politely FFS.

2. I am not particularly keen on having such a centre near me but I recognise that they have to be near somebody - however, there are also at least two drug dealers between me and it, which concerns me at least as much - and they have been there for years

3. I agree with those who say that this seems like an odd location. Yes, it's a main road, but a residential one. Yes, it has some bus connections and it's close to a station, but if you want to cater for Brockley, New Cross and Deptford, then putting it somewhere near Lewisham Way, where the three areas meet seems the best place and locating it in a non-resi spot seems the option that would upset fewest people

4. I agree that it's better to treat people than to abandon them

5. But I entirely agree with the person who said it makes a lot of difference whether this is a place where people are going voluntarily or under orders

5. I also agree that the consultation is clearly biased

6. Whatever happens, Brockley will continue to get better, as it has done every year in my experience

7. I am annoyed that taxpayers' money is being wasted on the witch-doctery of acupuncture

8. I don't know enough about this particular centre, what it will do and who it will treat, in order to say anymore at this point. But there are public consultations to come and I am sure there is more to be said in due course

9. Asking someone if they think they are better than kneejerk reactionaries is like asking them if they've stopped beating their wife.

So now you know. And now what?

sir Monkeyboy said...

Anon @18:47, I've certainly missed your point. I've really no idea what it is. I care about everyone's safety, mine, yours and ladies. If I had a horse and a suit of armour I would gladly escort maidens to and from the station.

The question is whether a treatment centre is needed, if so is the proposed location OK. Id rather these things were not needed, but they are. Personally I'm not horrified at one being there IF it's properly run. A well run treatment centre, a centre that gets people off drugs is both ethically and a practical good.

Now if you don't mind I've got to find my shield and broad sword.

Oooer said...

Now this...Nick

"Nick Barron specialises in corporate reputation and public engagement for governments, NGOs and multinationals in a range of sectors."

Anotheranon said...

Your obsessive pursuit of imaginary conspiracies says more about you than it does nick. He's publicised a little known treatment centre and has unleashed a barrage of objections, if thats PR then he needs to be sacked.

Of course the alternative, less interesting, conclusion is that he's just riming local blog.

Idiot.

Tressilliana said...

I hate to break it to you, Oooer, but we know. The reason we know is because Nick bravely set this blog up using his real name and has never made any secret of who he works for.

If he'd set it up in a made up name he'd have saved himself a lot of hassle but he seems to be very good at dealing with the relentless flak he gets from people who clearly regard PR men as one step removed from Satan.

Sue said...

Tressilliana, which part of the blog does it say 'specialises in corporate reputation and public engagement for governments, NGOs and multinationals in a range of sectors'?

Tressilliana said...

The quote given is, I presume, lifted from some part of Nick's employer's website. Those readers of this blog who choose to believe that Nick set this blog up as part of his activities for his employer may think that sentence is relevant to what you read here. I don't. I can't imagine Lewisham Council would pay for the sort of publicity they routinely get on this blog.

A-non said...

Sue, use the POWER OF GOOGLE and search for him. It's not hard, nick is hiding nothing. He's created a valuable local resource for the area and has a job in PR. So what? The sly conspiracy numpties don't give their names again nick could make them register, moderate heavily or give an email. Plenty of blogs do, this doesn't.

Keep it up nick....

Danja said...

It is kind of ironic how on every thread like this, so many antisocial borderline mentalists step out of their lurky twilight with eyes revolving wildly in their sockets at the sheer vividity of their paranoid fantasies.

That isn't a criticism of objectors, with whom I am more sympathetic than not. Just of the nutty ones who see a conspiracy behind everyone who doesn't immediately foam at the mouth.

It would almost be laughable if it wasn't actually so corrosive and nasty.

Lou Baker said...

Nick rocks.

Leave him alone dimwits.

He is even gradually discovering his inner Lou.

Simon said...

To echo Lou and Tressilliana, Nick has always declared any professional interest he has in Sainbury's and many other corporate organisations. To my mind he has always been totally transparent and I feel it is highly offensive to question his integrity without providing a shred of evidence to the contrary.
Nick will have his own personal views with regard to many of the issues raised on BC-as do we all.
What he does do is intiate debate and inform the local public of what is going on in their community.
If Nick were in danger of compromising himself, I would suggest it would more likely be his employers and their clients who would have the gratest need for concern.

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

As another Nick supporter I don't understand what his critics on here are seeking to achieve.

I can only conclude they are subject to some form of petty jealousy.

Keep up the good work Nick (and Kate, Jon and Ben). Long may Brockley Central continue.

Anonymous said...

Shall we start a petition here:

http://www.petitiononline.co.uk/

FizzA said...

Just wanted to bring a couple of things to your attention about drug/alcohol treatment and people who use treatment services.
1. People with drug and alcohol problems are already in your area, having a treatment centre will not make them multiply.
2. Treatment for drug and alcohol dependency has a number of positive outcomes. One of the main ones is it REDUCES OFFENDING. So it should bring crime down, not push it up as some people seem to fear.
3. If treatment centres provide needle/syringe exchange as part of their service then the liklihood of you finding discarded injecting equipment reduces, as users will be encouraged to BRING BACK used equipment, and use special disposal boxes which they are given at the same time as the barrels/needles.
4. The proximity of the nursery is irrelevant. Drug or alcohol use per se is not an indication that someone is going to be a danger to anyone else's children.
5. One of the major hurdles for people who have drug or alcohol problems in accessing treatment is the stigma attached to having an addiction and the prejudice that they are subjected to.

I support anyone trying to address their drug and alcohol problems, there are plenty of them in Brockley, who knows one day it could be someone you care about.

Anonymous said...

WOW... some of you people are ignorant! Not all substance users are bad, evil or commit crime and to help them get back into society, services liek this need to happen! I have lived in Telegraph Hill for 10years, seen a number of alcoholics that need and most want help but have nowhere to go! Hopefully it will also bring job opportunities for those who want to work in social care!

Anonymous said...

Agreed.

I find the views of many on here abhorrent.

Anonymous said...

The concern isn't Brockley residents - it's that it provides a central point for people from all other areas to come - so it will be substance abusers from everywhere coming to this spot.

fidgad said...

Anon @ 10.51

How do you draw your conclusion?

Are you saying only LBLewisham provides such centres?

Anonymous said...

The statement says this is to provide services for all in the north part of the borough.

Anonymous said...

I live 250 metres away from the Lewisham facility. The building is at least six times larger than the Shardeloes Road building. It has been in operation for over three years and, despite waiting at the bus stop in front of it almost every day during this time, I didn't realise that it was a substance misuse treatment until we were consulted on the drink free zone introduced about a year ago.

Sometimes a group of about three people is gathered at the entrance before it opens. Otherwise people enter and leave the building and that's about it.

There is a small group of street drinkers who sometimes gather in the fenced off green area in front of the centre but they only do that because there are benches there and they are not in anybody's way; sometimes the same group gather in Ladywell Fields or St Mary's Church gardens. They keep themselves to themselves.

Given that the Shardeloes Road building is much smaller, serving a smaller area than that currently served by Lewisham High Street, and that fewer people will use it, I doubt it will have much impact on even those living in the immediate vicinity.

It will, however, have a positive impact on substance misusers in the North of the Borough.

Anonymous said...

A nice post from a Council official

Anonymous said...

A rubbish post from a NIMBY

Anon said...

It would be great if anonymous posts could leave a nickname. It'd make it a lot easier to follow conversations.

Anonymous said...

@anon17:14

If your remark was directed at me (anon15:39) I can assure you I do not work for the council. It's much worse than that; I work for an investment bank.

I did phone the number on Brockley Nick's post to find out just how long it had been a substance misuse treatment centre (it was a doctor's practice when I first moved here 10 years ago) and the person I spoke to couldn't be sure but she had worked for them for over three years.

I didn't bother to create an account because I don't live in Brockley (though I read the blog - I wouldn't be going to Brockley Market tomorrow if I hadn't read about it on here).

I don't usually feel the need to "stick my oar in" but I live very close to a much larger facility than the one proposed for Brockley, and managed by the same people.

It really isn't a magnet for anti-social behaviour or burglaries. I've never witnessed anyone crossing the road to avoid walking past it. People don't hang around for hours creating a menacing atmosphere.

They arrive, they leave.

anon15:39

Anonymous said...

I really hope this doesn't go ahead, it would be terrible to be an area that serves as a centre for this kind of thing

TAmsin said...

No-one needs to create an account to give themselves a name. Sometimes I happen to be signed into google and so come up all posh and blue and underlined - at others I blip the blob by "Name/URL" and type in my name.

Or to preserve anonymity it could be just random letters that you use, or an expression of the mood of the moment. It is just a heck of a lot easier for others if every other post is not by a (possibly/probably different) "Anonymous"!

Mary, Mother of Christ said...

Will this centre provide a remedy for the misuse of polyester?

I see too many poorly-dressed people in Brockley/New Cross. Diamante emblems are not enough to offset the cheapness of some of the cloth I see on these people.

A-none-knee-mousse said...

Mary, that's funny. first laugh of the day - thank you

BrockleyKate said...

This thread is hilarious. So far we've established that Nick is AN ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE (and also turning into Lou Baker by stealth), and that Mb needs to work on his chivalry (and sharpen his sword).

Anonymous said...

Brockley's artisan spirit has been shown for what it really is today.

Embarassed to live here.

Monkeyboy said...

Eh? Artisan spirit? What? Embarrassed by the scare mongering? Embarrassed by the shortsighted knee jerkiness? Embarased by the spelling? Embarrassed by the support for it? Embarrassed by the lack of support?

Im actually not clear if yer mungster, artisan stereotype is supposed to be pro, neutral or anti. Need more information.

I'm currently working on an expensive cheese habit, where's the help for that? WHERE!! The pushers were out in force at the market today, a free taste of cheddar. It's a gateway cheese, your mainlining stinking bishop by the end of the month.

Anonymous said...

The mungsters like to think they're pro saving the world... the only condition is that it must be performed entirely out of site and out of mind. Achieved by the purchase of a 'bag for life' at least. And indeed, at most.

Monkeyboy said...

Great, thanks anon. That's cast the cold harsh light of reality on what was becoming the cloudy organic stock of stupidity.

subnet_247 said...

Well people keep talking about the number of dealers in the Brockley Cross area. It sounds like the council are doing exactly what many are suggesting - bringing the service to the area with the problem. I don't know wether any other services exist in Brockley, but it might actually help to get rid of some of the criminal elements.
Haven't noticed a huge upturn in crime around New Cross since the Waldron Health Centre opened which provides substance abuse support and methadone services. Perhaps these services go hand in hand with attempts to improve an area? If you do want your area to improve, surely you have to help the residents improve their lives as part of the process?

shards said...

Thanks to the person who took the time to do a letter drop about the proposed drug treatment centre.

I've have emailed the council and brockley ward councillors with a number of questions and concerns but not heard back from them. It's nearly been a week now. Has anyone else had any luck? If so please let me know.

Shardeloes Road Resident said...

Yes, thanks to whoever dropped the leaflet through my door too. I'll be attending the meeting and emailing the council. How much difference any of this makes is debatable but I'll be interested to see what happens at these things

Charlie said...

After reading that there is a sex offender unit in this area. My comments of earlier seem to really reasonate.

"if there is lots of local demand is this because of the number of facilities already here such as halfway houses, hostels.

Is this a perpetuating situation?"

First you have the hostels housing people with acute needs then follows the support structures, such as this centre.

This is most likely a two way process, as support infrastructures may well attract servicw planners to provide more units with people with acute needs in this area BECASUSE there are already support centres in the location.

Brockley has a lot of challenges from machete man, daylight muggings, flashers, burgulary sprees, gun caches and more but the offset by positive things, the balance of life makes it bearable to live in, however disrupt that balance too far & too fast and the place will become unbearable.

Anonymous said...

Charlie, I agree with you and have said as such in the consultation on the proposal. It does seem like a self-perpetuating cycle and brockley will be in danger of a slow decline. Hopefully the more people write to their councillors and complete the consultation document they [the council] might sit up and take notice.

Mayzie Brockley said...

Another truly excellent idea from Lewisham Council. I will have somewhere to go to get treatment for my bottle of red wine a night substance misuse issue. Up the Brockley middle class! Hurrah

Anonymous said...

Brockley Cross Action Group have now reported on this issue and are advising residents to get in contact with the council to raise their concerns... Perhaps this could be a new post? http://brockleycrossactiongroup.com/

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