The Fly Tip, Breakspears Road


Monkeyboy spotted this protest against a proposed house-building project on Breakspears Road. It wins points for both creativity and fence-climbing ingenuity.

29 comments:

Oh no it's not... said...

That is on Breakspears Road not Wickham Road.

Brockley Nick said...

Thanks for the correction. Honestly, what is the point of a stooge, if he can't even get street names right.

Tamsin said...

Indeed wit and humour gets you a long way - with public support even if not with the council.

You don't need to climb that fencing - with the right size spanner you can unbolt it and walk in.

sport billy said...

Do you walk around with a set of spanners in your handbag, Tamsin?

Anonymous said...

I wrote and objected to this scheme, but I hadn't been aware of the Planners' responses till now. I feel they've insulted us, and Brockley.

President of teletubbies appreciation society said...

Outrageous depicting lewi planners as teletubbies, Dipsy, Laa Laa, Po and Tinky winky are far cleverer than that lot.

Anonymous said...

Meanwhile property developers living in Wickham Road don't mind imposing their dodgy design sense on other parts of Lewisham.

kolp said...

Speaking of fly tipping, anyone else noticed the trend for dumping tyres around lamp posts, especially on Wickham Road?

Tamsin said...

@ Sport Billy - I used to when we were trying to keep the Telegraph Hill Lower Park closed during the final stages of refurbishment so that the newly planted grass wasn't wrecked and no trespassers got themselves killed or injured on the machinery left in place. Wire coathangers were good as well, in case the would-be trespassers had their own spanners.

Anonymous said...

Genius. Don't expect any action from Lewisham though.

Just look at the farce in Crofton Park where they allowed a massive high st building to be demolished opp Budgens, without consent.

Fattyfattybumbum said...

Lewisham planners = potentially THE worst planning authority in the first world.

I mean look at the state of every high street in Lewisham borough. Mumbai looks more organized!

Anonymous said...

Love the irony in the top right hand corner under the crown!

mb said...

Strangly enough I've just come back from Mumbai. It's not QUIET as bad in SE4, although I did get better mobile phone coverage than Orange can muster in London.

Anonymous said...

Brockley Society?!?

terrencetrentderby said...

bet mumbai smells better than the lewisham centre

MalB said...

"We are of the opinion that it would be more difficult to achieve an acceptable scheme by mimicking the adjoining property"

How often I have heard that. "Mimicking" goes with that other stock quote "we don't want to build a pastiche".

Of course it is more difficult to build something that is in keeping. Only a bad copy is a pastiche: a good copy is indistinguishable from its neighbours.

If the Council thinks it can't ve done well have a look at the new builds at 67 Arbuthnot Road and at 1 Pepys Road. These designs were worked out when modernist designs were turned down after a lot of local outrage. And whilst there were bleats of "pastiche" at the time, a lot of people have commented on how good they look.

It can be done if the planners will support it rather than giving up and allowing a poor development because it is easier (read "cheaper").

MalB said...

"We are of the opinion that it would be more difficult to achieve an acceptable scheme by mimicking the adjoining property"

How often I have heard that. "Mimicking" goes with that other stock quote "we don't want to build a pastiche".

Of course it is more difficult to build something that is in keeping. Only a bad copy is a pastiche: a good copy is indistinguishable from its neighbours.

If the Council thinks it can't ve done well have a look at the new builds at 67 Arbuthnot Road and at 1 Pepys Road. These designs were worked out when modernist designs were turned down after a lot of local outrage. And whilst there were bleats of "pastiche" at the time, a lot of people have commented on how good they look.

It can be done if the planners will support it rather than giving up and allowing a poor development because it is easier (read "cheaper").

Mondee said...

Shame they didn't get someone to proof read it before they printed it.

Danja said...

1 Pepys is a pretty impressive pastiche (so way better than the awful Kitto road rubbish). I'd be willing to call it a simulacrum instead, in order to damn with sufficiently faint praise.

But, you can and will easily be able to tell that it's fake.

Building fakes detracts from the originals in my view, so I can understand the planners on that score (not that should excuse just putting in some cheap and unambitious modern building, which can be worse than a studied inauthentic forgery).

MalB said...

A pastiche is a mixture of styles. 1 Pepys Road most certainly is not that. Nor is it a fake: it is a real building in a style which agrees with those around it.

The first houses on Telegraph Hill were built in the early 1880s. The last ones in the same style, just before the turn of the 20th century. Are the later ones pastiches of the earlier ones or fakes? And if they are not, why should properties built in the same style now be called pastiche or fake?

Hawksmoor, Vanbrugh and Ripley completed the buildings at the Royal Naval College "mimicking" the style of Wren. Was that a mistake? Should they have chosen a different style?

As for the Kitto Road building - I agree with you: that is a pastiche (in the proper meaning of the word). It was done with the best intention but by a housing association that could not (or would not) afford to do it properly.

Danja said...

A pastiche is a mixture of styles. 1 Pepys Road most certainly is not that.

What's with the roof and the fake chimneys and etc etc then?

Nor is it a fake:

It most certainly is - how many of the surrounding buildings are made of concrete block on the inside, and snapped headers to fake up the looks of a solid 9" wall from a modern cavity wall?

It's a total artifice, a studied and reasonable careful one, and clever (and no doubt expensive with it) but a complete and utter fake.

it is a real building

Well, it's inarguable that it is physically a real building. The style is nonetheless fake, being that it is pretending to be of a different era.

in a style which agrees with those around it.

In a lesser, weak, and falsely deferential way which actually disrespects the original, in my view.

Anonymous said...

a. this sign is hysterical, but I cycle past it every day and i thought it was information about a conceptual art project of even a new playground space! so maybe a bigger sign would be better?
b. I live in a 'pastiche' or 'fake' (Lloyd Villas - between Breakspears and Wickham, parallel to Lewisham Way) and I have to say I love it. High ceilings and dado rails etc but with the benefit of double glazing and secure entrances. Also because it's not a conversion of an existing building my 2 bed flat is really well and logically laid out. My old flatmate actually thought it was a conversion! So it looks good from the outside and is really pleasant to live in (which also shouldn't be overlooked when discussing planning...)

Robert said...

The discussion relating to the "fakeness" of buildings is interesting.

Does a victorian building have to be old to be victorian? Does the age of the building add to its authenticity, and value?

I have an analogy for you. There is a painting by Veronese hanging in the Louvres, "The Marriage at Cana". It is a large and impressive town panorama that originally hung at one end of a refectory of a monastery in Venice, but it was plundered by Napaolean and his troops in the 18th Century.

Recently, the City of Venice has commissioned a reproduction of the painting, which has been created using quite sophisticated printing techniques that replicates, not only the colours, but also the texture and relief of the paint. This reproduction was recently returned to the wall of the refectory. By accounts, at the opening ceremony, people were moved to tears to see its return. It completed the space.

So I guess my point is, sometimes we get a little hung up on this issue of authenticity. At times it is necessary to fix what has been broken.

Having said that, there is nothing worse than a poorly rendered architectural pastiche.

Tamsin said...

But also not helpful or constuctive when people use "pastiche" as a dirty word and apply it to any attempt to get a design that is in harmony with conservation area surroundings - seeming to prefer the worst examples of jerry-built modernsim simply because it can't be labelled in this way.

Good quality stuff that fits in can be done. And the Kitto Road terrace would be better if the Council had had the bottle to issue enforcement notices against the housing association who compromised on the detail that had been promised in the plans as approved.

Danja said...

seeming to prefer the worst examples of jerry-built modernsim simply because it can't be labelled in this way

Straw giant.

Danja said...

By accounts, at the opening ceremony, people were moved to tears to see its return. It completed the space.

So, fakes can be moving. It is obviously possible to forge all sorts of things in a convincing manner. Some land you in prison, others win you plaudits from those who think (their own favourite form of) beauty is nothing more than skin deep.

Anonymous said...

Well there's a £40 million pastiche that's been on going for about 10 years close to Chelsea Embankment, without objection.

Anonymous said...

Manor Avenue hostel objectors must have given planners a laugh....

Manor Ave is one the most sought after streets in the area..

BUT another objector says....

Manor Avenue is a mugging hot spot

Anonymous said...

Manor Avenue is at the forefront in the council war on communities. Ironically, tonight the planning Committee is to decide its future on whether it allows the hostel or not. Brockley Cross Action Group, headed by Rupert King, a resident in the street, is presenting a atrong challenge - and that will have the council quaking in their boots.

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