BXAG asks: what new businesses do you want for Brockley Road?

The Brockley Cross Action Group (BXAG) is carrying out a local consultation to try to assess the state of local demand for new shops and services in the area. This exercise is intended to influence the redevelopment of 180 Brockley Road, which will include significant new commercial space at ground level, helping to create a more coherent high street.

At present, the developers say that they are open to ideas about how the ground level should be configured (the units could be bigger or smaller, depending on what they think could work) and have expressed reservations about the idea of a supermarket being located at that site, as the frequent lorry deliveries required would lower the value of the residential properties above.

The BXAG have audited the stock of local businesses already located around Brockley Station, creating an interesting little list:

On Brockley Road: 1 cafe, 1 bookmakers, 1 pub, 1 launderette, 1 general store (Sounds Around), 1 gift shop, 1 supermarket, 1 Chinese takeway, 1 greasy spoon cafe, 1 void (was La Taverna), 1 kebab shop,  1 nightclub (Gulens), 1 nail bar, 1 Indian restaurant, 1 second-hand furniture store, 1 estate agent, 1 bakery (Doorstep), 1 second-hand machinery shop.
On Coulgate Street: 2 coffee shops,1 French Deli, 1 Jamaican takeway, 1 Vietnamese takeway and restaurant.
On Harefield Road: 1 bar / restaurant, 1 chip shop, 1 hairdressers, 1 estate agent
They plan to present the results to the developers and send them to local trade associations and commercial agents.

The "second hand furniture store" is currently being replaced by a "children's accessories" shop and we think it's an oversight not to include the shops in the parade on the west side of the tracks:

On Mantle Road: 1 hairdresser, 1 print service shop, 1 supermarket.

So please help them with their gap analysis. We've previously suggested that we think the following would have a decent chance at this location:

A florist
A grocer / fresh produce shop
A bakery (one that bakes its own bread, rather than sells white rolls out of a van - not that there's anything wrong with white rolls, but there is more to the world of bread than them)
Another gift shop (we anticipate that the new children's shop may double as a gift shop though)
A fishmonger
A butcher

But as we've said before, we think the businesses that have the biggest chance of success at this location would be restaurants and bars (and a beauty salon / treatment centre, for that matter), where local supply clearly does not match local demand. These businesses would also encourage the development of Brockley as a destination, supporting all the other retail in the area. It would be a bad mistake not to include some space for leisure as well as retail, in our view.

Please share your thoughts - we'll make sure they are passed on to BXAG.

163 comments:

Anonymous said...

What about the taxi office on Coulgate Street?

Miggs said...

Please not any more bookies, Brockley shouldn't have the same fate as Deptford.
Like the idea of a beauty salon, or something similar to Deptford X Deli.

Anonymous said...

10 new businesses we would very much like:

1. An aquarium
2. A milk/bar/icecream parlour
3. Miniture recording studios
4. A poolhall
5. An exclusive club/spa parlour (for ladies only)
6. A casino - for when the bookies close
7. A roller-rink
8. 10-pin bowling alley
9. An African restaurant; and
10. A music shop

Anonymous said...

A gym!

Anonymous said...

A gym! Maybe one of the smaller My Gym sort of places with limited equipment but cheap and handy.
Definitely a decent grocers and bakery.

Cuppicake said...

a small bar where good live music can be heard.
An independent book shop.
A florist/plant shop.

Anonymous said...

Restaurants and bars as a priority, florist/book/musicshop welcome but unlikely. A quirky arts store run by a Goldsmiths graduate? A cheese emporium or micro-brewery?

I fear a low proportion of locals would use a gym and there are plenty elsewhere. I don't consider this to be a suitable business to act as a focal point for the heart of our village (yes I said village) as they are rather divisive.

Anonymous said...

Why the separation of "cafe" and "greasy spoon" - BXAG leading the research again?

Anonymous said...

A KFC would work well in that spot, or a small Tesco

Tamsin said...

Slightly snide comment on the Doorstep bakery - they do good value lunch rolls, etc. freshly put togther and if they sell bread "out of a van" it is stuff that has been driven over from a "real" bakery somewhere else - and I don't think it is all white loaves. Simply no space for a bakery there.

If you want a fresh baked feel go to Quickstop just round the corner on Endwell Road - baguettes and donuts finished off on site. The only problem with buying a baguette warm from the oven is that you've eaten half of it by the time you get it home.

Nick Barron said...

Tamsin, it's not snide. I said their product is perfectly fine but it is NOT a bakery (it doesn't bake anything) and its existence doesn't render the a more specialist shop in this location inviable (I was anticipating the usual protest of "not ANOTHER bakery!!") from the regular dur brains.

As for Quickstop, sticking it in the oven for a few minutes before putting it on the shelves (like Costcutter and Tesco do too) doesn't make it a bakery any more than my house is if I buy part-baked baguettes from the supermarket.

Aricana said...

I would love if we had an independent bookshop and another bar/restaurant.

A treatment centre would be nice but think the Sunflower Centre (Hilly Fields) is a much nicer location (tranquil) for this sort of thing than by Brockley station.

Anonymous said...

I'd say Doorstep is over-rated from personal experience.

It is adequate. I think the tradespeople, with whom it is so popular, like the parking.

Oh, and I saw people in the second hand shop next door the other day!

Ladywell Sam said...

dropped the 'Brockley' then Nick?

Brockley Nick said...

No, just google account settings getting a little ahead of themselves

Anonymous said...

Pizza Express is popular regardless of your disposable income.

These days you get what some call chavs at a table next to what some call the cordrouy mung brigade.

I've always thought the Barge would make a good Pizza Express.

Anonymous said...

Bakery,grocers would do well I think, personally I'd like a fishmonger or butcher shop but not sure It would make enough money

Ghents said...

Another restaurant/bar like Orchard, offering a different cuisine (Greek, Spanish, Thai?) - I do miss La Lanterna

A bakery selling different types of bread

Bookshop with a section for children's books

Nando's (!?)

Gift shop that is not as expensive as Magi

Prince Peter the Pumpkin Eater said...

Butcher.

Fishmonger.

Greengrocer.

Baker.

Secondhand bookshop.

'Private' shop.

nonny mouse said...

Sadly there's no way an independent bookshop could survive in Brockley. They're closing down all over the place, in far more fertile retail areas than Brockley.

I'd like the Broca food market to move over the tracks to Brockley Road, and expand, offering more fresh meat, fish and veg.

A decent restaurant offering a short but well-executed menu would be excellent.

Anonymous said...

Less places selling dishonest, artisan fare; more places selling honest fare. No more twee grocers or vegetarian delis.

Ramble66 said...

Bar/Restaurant!!!!! Butchers, bakers.

If I had the capital I would love to open a treatment centre. Sunflower Centre is great but there is definitely room for another.

If anyone else has the same ideas welcome to PM me via SEC. User Ramble66.

Anonymous said...

Not sure where the plenty of other gyms are Anonymous 13.14, Wavelengths in Deptford and Ladywell Leisure Centre perhaps or the dire Fitness First in Lewisham but there's nothing for Brockley locals under a 20 minute walk away and not everyone has cars and bikes! Could be somewhere that combined fitness and well-being like other suggestions here have said with treatments/massage etc, but bigger than the (lovely) Sunflower Centre and more accessible.

Anonymous said...

A shop like the Turkish Food Centre selling fresh bread, butchery, fruit/veg and groceries would be fantastic in this location. Brockley also needs a beauty salon, there is a gap in the market here since professionails left.

Tamsin said...

Nick, I agree with you, I did say fresh-baked "feel" deliberately.

A proper bakery would be lovely (any news of the one that was hoping to start up in Crofton Park) not least they might be able to sell strong flour in bulk and fresh yeast - cutting still further my dependence on Sainsbury's.

Anonymous said...

Why so much bigging up of the Sunflower Centre on here when they practise proven quackery such as homeopathy?

Are mung bean eaters really that keen on placebos?

Monkeyboy said...

I love bookshps, or I should say I'd love a bookshop but as others have said unless it's got a unique sought after offering, I'd be sceptical.

Good butchers, I would have a said a good fishmonger but the super fresh Bockley Market stall does me.

I'd also actually like a bigger deli (so shoot me) Degustation is great but limited, I'd love a branch of Gennaros. Despite all the snide and tounge in cheek comments, there's plenty of room for a bigger one.

Anonymous said...

A dance venue for gentlemen pls

Anonymous said...

We really need a butchers - we've none in our local area.

Anonymous said...

a good bar / restaurant. similar to brockley mess, jam circus, or orchard...

Anonymous said...

A restaurant, a bar and a butchers would be amazing

Tamsin said...

And if there is a unit that can't sell - a charity shop to complement the Dress Agency (it would be a bit cheaper and perhaps open more reliably).

a curious said...

Please please (plural) restaurants/bars! Would also be pleased to see fishmongers, vintage/second hand furniture shop (something like the peanut vendor in newington green), charity shop, beautician, (& book shop but that is very probably unviable).

CPZ for Mummies said...

I buy most of my things online, so I would only use a cofe, restaurant, fish monger, waitrose, rarely a flower shop because I have a garden.

Any other business would starve if it was just for me.

Landlords need to be aware of the online shopping trends ...

Anonymous said...

The new Tesco and/or Sainsburys will reliably take care of the bakery/fishmonger/butchers requests, meaning we should concentrate on other things.

heckmcbuff said...

1. Turkish baths

2. Boxing ring

3. Sushi train

4. Lingerie boutique

5. Comic shop/vinyl shop

6. Customcar emporium

mb said...

Yes, thanks generic anon. I visit sainsburys weekly for some things. I prefer fish thats not been pre frozen days ago and prefer shopping in a butcher. I prefer both to online shopping. I want choice.

the area has plenty of 'the other' i want something in addition. Complex eh?

Anonymous said...

A nice simple KFC franchise would be great.

Ramble said...

If someone were to open a gym I'd love to run a clinic/practice from there.


I think a well run gym would do very well in Brockley. It doesn't need to be a big. Just not sure on location.

Anon 15.52 - I'd like a butchers there too but I think to say we have non locally is untrue. We had Peter James on Ewhurst and Wellbeloved a little further in Deptford. Both very good butchers.

Tim said...

This all feels a bit "Soviet central planning" to me. BXAG don't represent the people of Brockley, though I accept they are just acting as information gatherers. Ultimately the market decides what shops are in Brockley and listing what we want won't really help.

Anonymous said...

Poundland. Something for the true Brockley.

Brockley Nick said...

Tom, if I unrstand their intentions correctly, this is supposed to be a bit of research, to inform 'the market'. It's not demanding what we'need' it's about what we'd actually use. A little superficial but no harm.

Brockley Nick said...

Tim, sorry. Stupid auto correct

Anonymous said...

I think The Broca is excellent and a nice walk on a Saturday morning to get there - even though it's over the other side... One this side might damage their businesS which I wouldn't want to see. But a decent bakery and something like Neroli and possibly a bar is what I would use. And as someone mentioned a shop where you buy in bulk / top ups along the lines of Shop on the Hill and Dandelion Blue.

Anonymous said...

Shop On The Hill (or TOSH) was unsustainably mung and twee.

Welcome to 2012 said...

First time I have heard the mung term used properly by anonymids. Wouldn't call it twee though, it was too messy to be twee.

Unsustainable though, clearly.

st doughnut said...

A bakery please. My heart sinks when I walk in to Costcutter and friends to find the same old mass-produced,long shelf life, nutritionally deficient "bread". Many less affluent peoples of the world eat more nutritious bread than us Brits. Call it mung, call aspirational, call it what you like I just want A REAL LOAF OF BREAD! rant over

Anonymous said...

No more restaurants or cafes. But a good everyday clothes shop would be good. Not something selling trashy things with logos.

Anonymous said...

Bakery.

Something along the lines of blackbird in East Dulwich.

Anonymous said...

There is nothing wrong with Hovis bread from Costcutter. For some reason people don't like the other bread shop because it's arrived fresh in a van first? WTF?! First World Problems?!

st doughnut said...

what is a first world problem is to have all the money and information to hand, the ability to make choices but to accept the ubiquity of bread made using

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorleywood_bread_process

Brockley Nick said...

No, there is nothing wrong with Hovis. There is nothing wrong with uniform white rolls sold at the doorstep. It is not a 'problem' that either of these things exist. No one apart from you said it was.

However, they do not constitute everything the world has to offer (and Doorstep is not open at particularly convenient hours). Thus, there is room for an alternative - one that I and I suspect many others would shop at.

NAT said...

Bakery. Spelt bread of course (did I?)With a patisserie, somewhere that takes orders for birthday/cele..brational cakes. C'mon mung anons get yer teeth into that.

Tamsin said...

Thanks, St Donut, that is a very interesting link. Explains even really nice boughten bread when toasted has so much less substance than toasted home made bread.

As far as additives are concerned, though, salt is an absolute necessity. Bread without it is just about edible with marmite or dunked in soup but not otherwise.

The Cat Man said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

We get most of our veg and bread from Broco (happily on the right side of the track for us), get our meat from Wellbeloveds (sp?) in Deptford and anything we can't get locally we get from Sainsos. I reckon we're quite well served for decent food shops in our locale.
I would like to see a knitting/craft shop, for local OAPs, creative types and children, a specialist shop to bring people into the area.
oh and an independent cinema :)

Thanks! St Asaph Roadie

Anonymous said...

I get my honest fare from other local establishments.

time and cash poor said...

st doughnut

Brocca sell Flour Power bread lots of different kinds, there's a bread stall at Brockley market too, and you don't seem to be able to move around here for new cake shops and cafe-made muffins and cakes.

Anonymous said...

cat man, the BXAC groups also ignores new cross, deptford and switzerland. It's not a public funded body that owes anyone anything. Get involved with it or set up your own group. It's interested in things it's members find interesting, like this blog or any other group. because those groups have a readeship other organisations make use of it to collect information or promote things. What's the alternative? an ad in the News Shopper? notes pinned to trees?

st doughnut said...

T and C P, I do use the broca quite regularly but again it's not a bakery. Their bread is good but the low volumes and transport costs add a premium. I think the market is great and all concerned have done a great job, proving that whilst there is a market for poor quality/high yield produce in our borough there is also demand for more wholesome 'fare'.

st doughnut said...

and now I am off to Gulen Kebab which is also excellent!

Anonymous said...

Gulen kebab is wholesome fare... Brockley Market, less so.

st doughnut said...

My dear prolific anon, how very droll. Whilst I'm sure you squeal in delight to yourself each time you post. The frequency of your witty spontaneity would suggest alone you shall remain.

The Cat Man said...

Anon, I have been involved with BCAG a few times, and got over £1k corporate sponsorship for them, they are very good at what they do but they act like a 'greater Brockley society' and seem to be abit forgetful about anything on the west side.

It's not a bad idea to set up a westside charity actually, as I found out the money I donated was used alot for east side projects even though I said I wanted to be spent on the west...

Aricana said...

@ Cat Man - thank you for standing up for the west side. I would be happy to support a west side charity/action group.

Anonymous said...

@catman. OK, point taken. (I wish Lou could learn to make a point well in the same way you have since the old days)

Anonymous said...

I think BXAG "don't recognise the west side" the same as they don't recognise the "east side" as such - they do things FOR Brockley. Last time I checked people from the west were able to cross a bridge to get to anything east of the tracks. Someone living closer to Ladywell would have to walk as long or longer to reach something near Brockley cross than would Cat Man in his dwellings. I think that's the point that's being missed here.

Anonymous said...

TK Maxx or a primark would be good

Ez said...

Surely a Nail Bar is required. The nearest one is on the other side of the road.

Soniab said...

A restaurant would be great, Italian maybe?
A greengrocer would be great too. I like the idea of a shop similar to the Turkish food Center, as someone mentioned earlier, as it could provide many things in one place (fresh fruit and veg/fresh meat/groceries/and other stuff like fresh olives etc..). In terms of price, generally these shops are not overpriced and could cater for different type of people in the area.
Although degustation sells some bread, a baker would be nice in order to have a good selection of products.

Lou Baker said...

A bank. With a free cash point.

Anonymous said...

There is already a bakery, it is Doorstep Bakery, and is located next to Pavillon Estate Agent near the bridge. Not sure why we need another Baker. Degustacion, Cost Cutter and Doorstep cover this market already

Brockley Nick said...

@Anon - see above.

Anonymous said...

A greengrocer would be great.

I'd also be keen to see space given over to a proper restaurant - there are lots of lovely places to eat in the area, but they are all so small that they get very cramped at busy times (I'm thinking the Orchard, the HOP, Smiles, Mo Pho). A place for a proper sit down meal that didn't feel like a café, or a bar that happens also to do food, would be excellent. I like the idea if Italian, but French or British would be just as nice.

Anonymous said...

There's always a table free in Top Chef when I've been in

Anonymous said...

Hah! Don't get me wrong, Top Chef is actually one of my regular haunts (I much prefer the breakfast there to the Mess, for example, which I think is overpriced for what you get, the choice is limited and the service hasn't every been that great, in my experience).

But as much as I'd like to eat every meal at Top Chef, I don't think my missus would agree that it's an appropriate place for, say, an anniversary meal or whatever. Well she might, but my doctor has told me that three fry-ups per day *may* be overdoing it somewhat...

Somewhere local that does fine dining (or at least, a proper sit down meal) would be great - and it would be a major bonus if they can accomplish that in a large enough space so that you're not sat ON THE LAP OF THE PERSON AT THE TABLE NEXT TO YOU, as is the case in a few of the establishments round these here parts.

Anonymous said...

A good, decent priced grocers selling quality, fresh fruit and veg (love Broca but their range isn't wide enough and it's not the cheapest)- like the Turkish Food Centre

Vintage / second hand furniture shop

A butcher

Fishmonger

Alternative bar(s) with live music or another restaurant (filling Laterna's void)

And here's a list of what we wouldn't want to see:
Bookies, Tesco, another Costcutter type store, Dominos or poor quality takeaway

Anonymous said...

Domino Pizxa

Anonymous said...

I'd have a dominos as well

Anonymous said...

I agree with the person who wants the lap dancing club

Anonymous said...

Brockley Nick (and others), a little plea: do we have to have comments (like 'its turning in to clapham', 'its middle class', 'mung beans', 'x is not representative of brockley' all over every article??...it really detracts from the article and the more insightful and interesting comments and its getting a bit boring. Grateful for your help on this? Perhaps we can create a space for this debate somewhere else?

Would love a grocer...one that sells fresh fruit and veg, nothing fancy.

Thanks for letting us know about the consultation.

Toilets R Us said...

What about a public toilet somewhere? Ever since they turned that other one down the road into an estate agents, and the one in the park is being turned into something useless, it's been a urinal wasteland around here

Anonymous said...

There IS a public toilet... haven't you seen the wheelie-bins outside the post office? I quite often make a stop off up there after getting back on the last train from the city.

Danja said...

What is the second-hand machinery shop in BXAG's list?

Brockley Nick said...

Next to the 'bakery'. Not sure it's a fully functioning shop.

Anonymous said...

A decent coffee shop would be nice

mb said...

Anon @15:12. I suppose a lap dancing club saves the effort of w**king yourself.

Anonymous said...

I quite fancy an artisan toss

The Cat Man said...

How about a pet shop? Most of Us have gardens around here, I really struggle to find organic cat food. I dread giving my cats whiskers, they turn hyper - but what's the alternative?

And another idea, does Brockley actually have a charity shop where we can off load things and feel good about ourselves?

Anonymous said...

Cat man buy online or pets at home deliver. Not organic but the P@H do Appaws and almo nature. Also I'm sure the Broca would consider getting a small selection of organic cat food.

Anon - 10.49 - decent coffee shop? Seriously?

Anonymous said...

Why organic cat food? Both the petrol garage and costcutter sell good honest chunks in gravy. If it makes them hyper, give them less of it.

Anonymous said...

Yes seriously. In the morning's there's nowhere to get a decent coffee and breakfast this side of Top Chef.

Brockley Nick said...

Browns regularly features in top-10 places to buy coffee in London lists, the Brockley Station coffee shop gets good reviews and the Broca has a loyal following. That's three right by the station. You are a joke maker. Making jokes.

The Miska said...

1. Vintage furniture shop
2. Tesco or similar
3. Sushi place
4. Massage place (not pervy one, proper one)
5. Pet shop
6. Fruit and veg place
7. Fishmongers
8. Charity bookshop / Oxfam books
9. Another restaurant
10. Crèche / nursery

Anonymous said...

I don't like any of those places. Try a takeaway latte from Top Chef and I promise you you won't go back to the others. No 'artisan' pricing either, just good honest coffee.

Brockley Nick said...

So you can buy a cup of coffee you like locally then. So what's your point?

Thomas Hardy said...

I agree with the comments about the lack of need for a shop selling fresh bread: Degustation, Doorstep and Broca Market (cross the train tracks, its not that scary) have a good selection of all these.

I'd echo the comments for a gym - I'm aware of Open Gym on Hilly Fields, but something by the station would be very handy - and is the sort of thing that could easily be incorporated into a building from the start.

The only other shop I think Brockley needs... is one I hope to open myself. One day. One day...

Anonymous said...

How about a Gourmet Burger Kitchen?

Anonymous said...

My wish list:

1.Sushi takeaway & restaurant

2. Charity shop (in the past I've actually gone to Forest Hill, Lewisham and Dalston to give stuff away)

3. Another sit-down restaurant (italian?)

4. Cinema (kind of ironic seeing as there used to be one here)

I'd use a barkery too, though I find Broca and Degustation offer just about enought variety for a Saturday lunchtime loaf.


Some of the anonymous trolling on here is quite funny... but i wouldn't want it taken seriously.

NAT said...

To enjoy your Top Chef Cafe coffee, someone say's you practically have to sit in someones lap.

I wouldn't take my laptop to such a place or any of my lapdancing friends come to that.

Anonymous said...

The Orchard restaurant has been such a huge sucess, I would suggest Orchard 2.0, with perhaps more seating for casual drinkers, and a larger selection of ales. It would certainly give The Barge a run for its money.

foxberryroader said...

Seriously though,

1) Another nice eating and drinking place like the Orchard.
2) Greengrocer
3) Sushi (sit down and take away - almost impossible to find in SE London)
4) Butcher or Fishmonger
5) Proper bakery.
6) Bookshop (longshot though)
7) Shoe shop (including children's shoes).

Anonymous said...

BXAG will not dictate what goes into those units and they are only doing the usual thing of riding on the backs of others. (Bunch of glory merchants. Especially that Ed Ampersand.)

Simple economics will dictate what goes there. And I suspect the developer will need the input of persons on this site directly; not filtered down via BXAG which will muddy the waters.

Take the flats for instance. Would you want to spend a quarter of a million upwards with the smell of fish wafting up to your balcony? A fishmongers is out. Possibly too a butchers. (Think hot summer days and smells again.)

Whatever is below the apartments would have to be businessess that would not impact on what is above.

Exciting times though.

Anonymous said...

1. A butcher (I would use this almost daily)
2. A fishmonger (I would use this a few times a week)
3. A bakery (A real one that bakes!)
4. Orchard 2.0 ... we need more of these!

Mb said...

Nothing like the soaring ambition of the anons to brighten the day.

The BXAG will not dictate anything obviously. They are a lobbying group and a good thing too. As for 'glory seeking' well if you mean pushing for the common planting and organising its maintenance then that's another win.

Shops, well it's a modern development so no reason why smells should be an issue. Refrigeration has also penetrated SE London so maggot ridden putrid flash is not a biggy.

Michael Trenchard said...

"Thomas Hardy said...

The only other shop I think Brockley needs... is one I hope to open myself. One day. One day..."


would that be a furmity shop Thomas - where one could sell ones wife?

THNick said...

Tamsin/Donught, bread like that isn't ubiquitous, Ayres in Nunhead gets awfully hissy about it. They also sell yeast, flour and everything else for home baking. And Huey at Bambuni was giving away sourdough starters.

Fattyfattybumbum said...

Bars and restaurants! A gastro pub!

Anonymous said...

Somewhere selling a traditional breakfast

Brockley Nick said...

"Take the flats for instance. Would you want to spend a quarter of a million upwards with the smell of fish wafting up to your balcony? A fishmongers is out. Possibly too a butchers. (Think hot summer days and smells again.)"

This is exactly right. The developers won't want to encourage these kinds of businesses - the smell of fresh bread from a baker or coffee from a cafe is a different matter. Likewise, I'd expect a beauty salon and a florist to be high up their list of preferences.

Anonymous said...

The market will decide.

Anonymous said...

Lewisham Market?

Brockley Nick said...

@Anon 1127 - yes - what's your point?

Mb said...

There goes my plan for a traditional abattoir, leather tannery and Durian import bussiness. :-(

Anonymous said...

'Durian Import Business' - wasn't that the one with Simon LeBon?

Tamsin said...

@MB - love it. But might one argue the poential for the smells to cancel each other out? Think of a rainbow mix and white light.

@THNick - thanks - I will investigate Ayers for flour and yeast (pending that will o' the wisp baker actually opening in Crofton Park) but they will - I'm afraid - need to be cheaper than Sainsbury's as it is a staple so I would go for the lowest price.

It was Ayers (when they also had a branch in Bromley) who sold me a loaf without salt. As mentioned, inedible. They were a bit sniffy when I took most of it back, not for a refund but to say that it had happened and could happen again to the damage of their reputation.

Mb said...

I've bought yeast from Ayres. All I need now is to learn to make fire and I'm safe from societal breakdown. I'll have bread.

Young Professional 3.0 said...

1.0 more vote for Orchard 2.0

terrencetrentderby said...

a gentlemen’s club would be nice, complete with a cigar room, a no women policy (except for the hookers), a well stocked port cellar and waiters wearing white gloves

ironed copies of the telegraph would also be a nice touch

Anonymous said...

A candlestick maker?

Anonymous said...

*Anon 19 February 2012 16:28* Brocca Market sell fresh fruit and veg.

Lady in the Well said...

@Catman - Supreme Animal foods near Ladywell Leisure Centre deliver for free locally.

I'd like to see a restaurant or bar and if it was a pizza express I wouldn't mind. No more chicken takeaways please, I'm gutted that Morley's is coming to Ladywell while Mason's sits empty.

TheOracle said...

A restaurant would be good, but I'm back on those smells again.

It would also be great iof the developer could try to offer additional space to Browns and La Broca in a part cut-through design that would open it up a little. Doesn't need to be much.

A really good bakery would of course be most welcome too.

A bar or restaurant at its northernmost tip allowing wrap-around views for customers who like to people watch.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps one of the successful market stalls from Brockley Market could think about opening up something more permanent in a retail space here?? - the demand has already been proved if they are doing well at the market.

Chicking said...

Morley's coming to Ladywell! Wicked, saves me having to walk to the one on Brockley Rd!

Mmm it tastes better... said...

See you there Chicking!

The Morley Family

Lady in the Well said...

Great. Make sure you throw the bones and the box on the pavement won't you..

Fantastic Mr Fox said...

As a long time resident from a family that has been here for generations I welcome this. Step free access to the waste receptacles would be welcome as would strategic holes in the fence. Thanks awfully.

Anonymous said...

Some idea: An art gallery, a creche, a bank, a community hall/meeting room, a gym, an antiques shop, a bookshop, an indoor market, a courtyard open air market, and an HQ for Brockley Cross Action Group...

Anonymous said...

Fab news about Morley's coming to Ladywell... best alternative to KFC there is. Drop the aloof attitudes and go and get yourself an HONEST meal from them.

Anonymous said...

An MOT Centre...:-) just kidding...

Anonymous said...

A Creche.

Anonymous said...

Maybe Smiles Thai restaurant would like to move here...

Anonymous said...

A community hall/youth club...perhaps it could be called Brockley Village Hall.

Anonymous said...

A really good art gallery with a couple of studios. It could show and sell works by local artists and be linked with local art studios/camberwell art college and Goldsmiths College.

Plus a Thai restaurant.

Anonymous said...

a nursery.

Anonymous said...

a language school...then all the extra people coming to the neighbourhood would help all the current shops/pubs flourish.

durr said...

Oh come on. Get real. Community halls and art galleries aren't on the list that a developer wants to attract to a new build as both make bugger all money and so can't pay rent. Epecially the sort of gallery that could sell anything in Brockley anyway.

Anonymous said...

Tea Leaf Arts was in a new development.

Anonymous said...

An art gallery could make money if it was run on a co-operative basis by a community group.

Similarly a creche/nursery could double as a community hall.

Tamsin said...

Apologies, last two anonomyii, for shooting down your ideas but...

Tea Leaf Arts was indeed in a new development and survived - just - during its rent free period. Then rapidly folded. Co-operative projects are incredibly fragile because everyone involved feels that they are being called upon for more than their fair share - human nature.

A creche or a nursery could not viably start up in a space that was also intended to double up as a communty hall. That is the way pre-schools worked in the 1980s and 1990s when there was no alternative and it was a bunch of mothers taking the second hand toys out of the cupboard and setting up the slide three days a week (and putting it all away again each day) with a duty rota among them to stay on helping the one one paid worker. I salute them - and that letter to the Guardian (?) that started the whole pre-school movement - but you've now got Key Stage Curriculum, EYDPs and Ofsted and the old style playgroups have changed past recognition. It could not happen now - and certainly not pay the rent.

A community hall/village hall for youth club, children's activities and exercise classes (either franchises or private enterprise) and private hire for functions would also not pay rent - such a place operates the other way round. You need one or two members of staff for just managing the lets, cleaning, caretaking and maintenance. Such places are vital to a neighbourhood but are either owened/supported by the Council - like Honor Oak - or by a Church. The Telegraph Hill Centre functions because St Catherine's Church either originally owned or else acquired with one-off capital grants the freehold of the whole blocky 1960s extension and lets off half of it to private tenants to subsidise the other half operating as a community centre. Don't know how the finances of St. Andrews and St. Peter's work but I suspect it must be something similar - or else they have some very effective fundraisers getting a series of charitable grants. Or a combination.

Anonymous said...

Sadly I doubt many round here will see the need for a nursery while The Brockley Din is still open...

My tinnitus is flaring up again!

Anonymous said...

Tea Leaf arts failed because it was based on community idea that each of the artists would in turn have a chance to show their work. Regrettably many of the 'artists' were very poor and only got to show their work on a gallery wall because they had paid for the privilege.

and it was in the wrong place . . .

Anonymous said...

Another van rental company.

Anonymous said...

having a community centre with quiet rooms where people could teach yoga/pilates/therapy groups would be great. or a gym/treatment centre with lots of rooms that have a range of therapists working out of them, cheap to them so they don't have to charge loads just to cover room rent.

Anonymous said...

A mung bean packing and distribution centre.

Anonymous said...

If a community hall is not viable then perhaps Brockley Social Club could think about becoming more like a community/village hall.

Anonymous said...

Ows about a morleys. That will piss those toffee nosed lunch clubbers off the spot.
Or mens club!

Anonymous said...

Half of you are not even from London - your all newbies!!!! Brockley Nick - the lot of ya - we r the old boys. Here since early 70's.
Im a londoner - Brockley boy born and bred and all we have now is posh fish n chip shops posh cafes etc.
Id love to meet that Brockley Nick and call him a tosser. Leave Brockley alone mate go back to the country

Kirsty said...

There used to be a butcher and there used to be a florist but they closed down due to lack of trade.

Tressilliana said...

Brockley Nick comes from Charlton, ie about two miles from here, and went to local state schools. So you're way off the mark as well as offensive.

Anonymous said...

1970s man - what was Brockley like in your day? In what ways has it changed for the worse/better?

Anonymous said...

Fings aint wot they used to be and no mistake!

Anonymous said...

Never ad none of yer big yellow flashers fetch flatshare dominic west in the rivoli skinny lister lou baker ows yer father for starters.

Mb said...

The 70's. Nylon shirts, poor personal hygiene and power cuts if I remember rightly.

Lady in the Well said...

Did you eat good old honest Findus crispy pancakes?

NAT said...

Mmm.

Followed by Angel Delight.

Honest Fare.

Anonymous said...

Nothing wrong with Findus crispy pancakes - they still make them - and angel delight was delicious fare.

Mb said...

Must admit Butterscotch Angel Delight and boil in the bag cod with cheese sauce were both favs. That makes me both good and honest.

Lady in the Well said...

What did you do for entertainment in 70's Brockley?

I imagine you stayed in and watched an honest sitcom like Mind Your Language?

Anonymous said...

We kept pigeons.

Tamsin said...

Angel Delight was posh - and you only got the quantity made with half a pint of milk. Instant Whip went further as you used a pint of milk per packet - tasted far more synthetic though.

And actually, Angel Delight still is a good for a quick store-cupboard standby - and, MB, try mixing the chocolate and butterscotch in a decorative swirl. Interestingly, though, they have a slightly different texture.

Anonymous said...

I like the strawberry one. No organic rubbish there - just decent flavourings.

Anyway http://www.finduscrispypancakes.com/

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