Ladywell Easter Chicks

The Ladywell Village Improvement Group reports that two more chicken shops are due to open in Ladywell shortly, bringing the total number of Ladywell takeaways serving fried chicken to seven:

"The Village Chicken Hut will replace the old off licence at 222 Algernon Rd and is expected to open in about two weeks time. Soon after – or even at the same time – a finger lickin’ fried chicken outlet is expected to open in the Chinese takeway which is currently being refurbished."

LVIG is concerned about the "proliferation" of takeaways in Ladywell, although it's a net gain of only one. The bigger issue is the lack of variety in the area - is Ladywell big enough to support so many of the same takeaway offerings?

94 comments:

Anonymous said...

NO.... it is not, but what can we do to prevent it? young and old people support them as you never see one of them closed down.

Anonymous said...

better a chicken shop than a empty shop

Brockley Nick said...

"better a chicken shop than a empty shop"

agreed.

Anonymous said...

If they are opening they think there is the support for them. Given that it is their business, they probably have a good idea about this. So here is the demand for them. And if you equate demand with need (whatever that means), then there is the need for them too.

Anonymous said...

Excellent news - great to see traditional fayre staying on the menu.

NO to fussy stuff.

Anonymous said...

There is nothing more depressing than seeing a mother feed her kids fried chicken and chips on a bus. I'm not being a 'mung' just a realist.

Anonymous said...

Its depressing to you but lets be real the times that we are living in the demand is what it is.. the resturants (masons) and the pubs are closing down..and the chicken shops are replacing them, masons closed people wwhere upset, but when it was opened they never suported it thats why they close.. SUPPORT the local business then we will not have the rubbishe that is put out there

Anonymous said...

Fair comment, we should support out local business more often if we do not want empty shops and chicken shops, No FT No comment, No support, No comment...

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said ..."SUPPORT the local business then we will not have the rubbishe that is put out there"

But the chicken shops are probably local franchises and "local businesses". They are also self-evidently what local people want. What you mean by "rubbishe" is that you don't like it. Well that is because you chose to live in an area where other people have a different value set to your own. But they are local people too.

Anonymous said...

There's nothing wrong with a mother feeding her children fried chicken and chips in moderation ffs!

Anonymous said...

There is no demand for local shops these days, everyone has a car and shops in the supermarket. They party and work uptown. That is the way it is.

I don't see why people harp on about 'demand' and markets. Those were completely skewed by local government planning and the big supermarket barons years ago.

These are dormitory suburbs and the role of a local shop is to satisfy convenience and addiction.

Betting shops, tobacconists, off licenses, fast food takeaways.

There is some community here, but most people live their lives outside the area.

It would take a big shift in public policy to encourage corporations to give up their shiny HQs in central London and disburse their operations to many smaller local offices so people spend more of their life in their local community.

There are few signs of any change in that regard.

Anonymous said...

Yesterday I saw a sign outside saying "Mai Hong opening soon". So unless they are calling the chicken outlet Mai Hong I'd imagine that the Chinese is being replaced by the same Chinese takeaway in a refurbished shop?

Babs said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Babs said...

Mai Hong is the chinese shop they have just sold the lease and moved from no 87 ladywell road.. they have not left ladywell

Anonymous said...

Brockley has a lot to learn from Ladywell (itself part of Brockley) for its choice of fare.

Anonymous said...

Ladywell is not part of Brockley in any shape or form although a comparison would find in Ladywells favour, but we are benevolent people in Ladywell and don't wish, or need, to crow about our good fortune or blow our own trumpet to make us think that Ladywell is better than it actually is, because it's just, well, better.

Westsider said...

Ladywell is Brockley's more boring cousin.

Mondee said...

I guess it MUST be big enough to support so many of the same takeaway offerings, if it's true that it was supporting 6 anyway, but it's pretty depressing. 7 shops of the same ANYTHING would be boring. Surely we all want diversity in our high streets. Those of us who like fried chicken surely don't need more than 1 or 2 in the same stretch of shops?

Anonymous said...

Well there are or were a cluster or 6 ethical shops around Coulgate St and its environs, I don't see anyone complaining about those though

Anonymous said...

Mondee said "Those of us who like fried chicken surely don't need more than 1 or 2 in the same stretch of shops?"

With only 1 there would be a monopoly. It's all about price competition and choice - those of you who like fried chicken want to have it still more cheaply. Or with slightly different flavours. Or possibly with a bit more chicken in it. Or smaller chips. Or larger chips. But even if they are identical, you want it cheaper.

Anonymous said...

I prefer food sourced from places other that the big food processing factories. All kinds of dodgy stuff goes on in those places.

Quality rather than ethics, I think.

Anonymous said...

How is the size of the place producing the food any indication of what goes on in it?

Mung fad-ism at its worst!

Mondee said...

@ Anon 18.24, a cluster of ethical shops? That is a) nonsense and b) as I said, 6 or 7 of ANY kind of shop would not make sense to me. I don't know what a 'cluster of ethical shops' might be, but if they were all selling essentially the same goods - organic olives and artisan bread, perhaps, just to play up to your preconceptions - I would also say that was a wasted opportunity to bring more diversity to the area.

Sue said...

Nick - it's a net gain of two take aways, not one - the take-away opening on the corner of Gillian St was previously retail/A1 use, as was the Chinese at 105 Ladywell Rd, and it sounds like what was the Chinese will be another chicken shop, so remaining A5 use. Not the end of the world, but not great, either. Then again, we've had several good businesses open up in Ladywell in recent years and some success in getting derelict properties back into use, so it's kind of swings and roundabouts.

Can't quite understand why both shops have spent about 2 years being renovated - maybe we are about to be bowled over with their brilliant interiors, though I suspect not. I suspect we'll need a few more litter bins to deal with the extra rubbish on the road.

Anonymous said...

No one complaining about the hessian bags getting dropped around the place... classism guys!

Anonymous said...

Mondee said...
"as I said, 6 or 7 of ANY kind of shop would not make sense to me."

Study economics. There is actually a good reason why shops of a similar sort bunch together. Think Oxford Street and department stores, Hatton Garden and jewellers, St James or Saville Row and men's clothiers etc. etc. In fact, Wwy ice cream shops on a beach bunch together is a classic first year study in economic dynamics.

Mung Domestos said...

Aye, look at Denmark St, Saville Row, Harley Street, Tottenham Court Road...

Brockley Nick said...

Yes, Anon, businesses do cluster. But they cluster to draw in punters from a wide area.

Harley St, Hatton Garden, et al don't rely on custom from their own neighbourhood. By clustering they become a centre of excellence (or in Harley Street's case, quackery).

Your theory relies on the idea that people will flock from far and wide to seek out the fried chicken in Ladywell. Given how many fried chicken joints there are in SE London, that's going to have to be some damn fine chicken they're all serving.

Anonymous said...

Well, presumably it's at the least good chicken, or they wouldn't all be in business.

Will you be trying some, Nick?

Anonymous said...

I doubt whether any of these processed chicken frying shops will reach the quality of, say, Nandos.

It is not food you want to examine too closely.A judgement on its quality is clear from how much is strewn on the streets.

Maybe we could have a map and some reviews of these popular chicken shops by someone who eats a lot of this sort of stuff.

There seem to be a few of these simple souls around here.

Anonymous said...

The KFCs both of Catford and Old Kent Road are excellent - that's the sort of fare we should be bringing to Brockley

Tamsin said...

And the ice-cream vendor on a beach scenario (which I have had explained to me a couple of times but cannot recall in detail) is logical and interesting but does not bear out real life without some tweaking to take into account factors like where people live and where they travel and where they wait for buses.

MalB said...

Brockley Nick - it is not clustering for the sake of excellence. Excellence has nothing to do with it. In fact, if you have a reputation for excellence people will come to you even if you are not clustered with others.

The reason that similar types of businesses cluster is pure economics. The classic example, mentioned by Anon, is the ice cream salesmen on the beach. If there are two of us, you would think that each of us would take up a space well apart, so that each served half the potential customers on the beach. But if I then move my stall closer to yours, I still get all the people from my end of the beach (they won't walk past me to get to you) and I get a few of yours too who are now closer to me.

Your best response is to move closer to me so that you regain some of the middle ground lost to me. My response is to move closer to you ... and so on. Ultimately we are side by side, both with half the beach still but with no further gains to be made. Rather than keep moving, the best place to start therefore is right next door!

There are a lot of other good reasons for clustering as well: e.g. if you are next to your competitor and charge lower prices (or provide marginally better quality), you will attract his customers away ... if you are not close by, his customers can't see your lower prices and will go to him not you. And so on.

All a bit simplistic, I know,(and not true of all businesses or locations) but the blog's not the place for long essays on economics and gamesmanship!

Anonymous said...

I used to know of one fare seller who had 2 shops side by side, one 10p cheaper on every product (and a bit nicer too). The other one was there basically to make the first one's fare look better.

hardlianotion said...

Well, if it turns out that they are all cannibalising each others business, it may be that there are no fried chicken establishments at all in a couple of years.

The ice cream vendor problem doesn't really translate - that setup assumes that the ice cream vendors supply all the ice cream eaten on the beach and that there is some interest in the stuff.

Anonymous said...

The qualities of local takeaway is one of the reasons I moved to Brockley.

Anonymous said...

Wow. How incredibly tragic.

Anonymous said...

Good, honest fare.

Anonymous said...

you may be surprised to know that takeaways you might think are in Brockley are actually in Ladywell, Top Chef, for example, the Brockley Mess and Brockley Rock, so all is not lost . . .

Dishonest muck said...

Yum, mashed up chickens arseholes. No wonder the 'honest fare' lot are so full of shit...

Ladywell Neil said...

This is really frustrating as I objected to the recent plans of the Algernon Road chicken shop and my complaint was upheld. I was told that there would be an appeal but I didn't hear back. What a ridiculous system the Council are running.

Anonymous said...

I suspect the profit margins in chicken takeaways are huge, like coffee and popcorn. It is regretful though that so many customers don't seem to care what goes in their mouths. I don't think it has anything to do with poverty of income, just poverty of self respect.

Anonymous said...

True. The chicken is the cheapest, water filled rubbish and the prices charged are actually quite high, considering. Before some witless tool calls me a mung I do eat at KFC and Nandos but these knock off joints are just shit. Even if you are stupid enough to eat the rubbish why do you need seven places on one street in which to buy it?
A shame for Ladywell.

Anonymous said...

It's very hard to fill whole breast pieces - which these places serve - with either water or 'mashed up chicken's arseholes'

Yet more bollocks from the mung police.

MalB said...

@ Ladywell Neil
"I objected to the recent plans of the Algernon Road chicken shop and my complaint was upheld. I was told that there would be an appeal but I didn't hear back. What a ridiculous system the Council are running."

What application was this? Do you have a date or property number or Development Control reference? A search of the planning database doesn't give any application for a new chicken shop in Algernon Road at all.

B said...

To the anon connoisseurs of fried chicken.

They all use the same quality of cheap battery chicken dipped in flour and deep fried (or pre-cooked, smothered in piri piri sauce then re-heated in Nando's case). The margins are actually quite low for chicken shops as due to immense competition meal combos are ridiculously cheap.

Source: I used to work in a chicken shop

B said...

...and you can't get ribs in a KFC :)

Anonymous said...

It isn't at all hard to fill chicken breasts with water - its called a syringe. And the nuggets, which these places also serve, are pure arseholes. Still, you are,what you eat. Tuck in...

Ladywell Neil said...

@MalB Just look up 222 Algernon Road on the planning database. The application that I rejected was the plans for the shop front ref: DC/11/76944/FT
The change of use to hot food takeaway was before that but I objected due to noise, borderline residential location, safety and public health. My objection was upheld but it seems as if an appeal must have gone ahead and it's happening anyway. It's really disappointing as it's not what is needed for the area (in my view) and the Council aren't taking their responsibilities seriously.

Anonymous said...

" It's very hard to fill whole breast pieces - which these places serve - with ... water"
No its not. Cheap chicken, and cheap supermarket ham and frozen foreign scallops (amongst other things) are pumped full of water.

Anonymous said...

Plus, the chicken burgers and nuggets in these places are made with reconstituted meat - ie all the rubbish bits left over, mashed up. If you ever saw how this stuff is made you really wouldn't eat it.

Anonymous said...

Meat is meat guys.

Lady in the Well said...

I'm confused. Mai Hong own two shops, and as someone has already mentioned the empty shop has a sign outside saying 'Mai Hong opening soon'.

So are Mai Hong moving to the empty shop and selling their current shop to the chicken people? That doesn't make sense.

I was really hoping Mai Hong were going to open a restaurant in addition to their takeaway.

Maybe they the chicken shops won't all last, Ladywell used to have 5 hairdressers/barbers until Rosa Parks closed. Does anyone know what's planned for that shop? I've seen it being refitted.

Lady in the Well said...

forgot to say I disagree Nick. I'd rather an empty shop than another chicken shop.

At least I could then live in hope of another miracle transformation like Nightwatch to Slater and King.

Anonymous said...

Anon 21.02, are you for real or just trolling? Meat is meat? Where have you been for the last 10 years or so?

Lady in the Well said...

probably spent the last 10 years in Top Chef

Anonymous said...

Snobs. My drunken box of fried chicken is the highlight of a drinking session.

Battery chicken is battery chicken regardless whether you eat it from Sainsburys, KFC, Pret. Pizza Express etc etc etc.

Morality goes out of the window for me at 11pm after 8 pints.

Anonymous said...

Drunk as a skunk and belly full of chicken giblets.

Chain smoking capstans and wasting a paypacket on ill considered wagers in one of the many bookies.

The Brockley/Ladywell axis provides an abundance of opportunities for the local 'Andy Cap' types to indulge their appetites.

In due course, they will provide case studies for the medical students at Lewisham hospital.

Lady in the Well said...

I'm not a snob, I eat fried chicken, I just don't think anyone needs a choice of seven different fried chicken shops.

Anonymous said...

@Lady in the Well: Why do you not think anyone needs a choice of seven different fried chicken shops? Clearly the shop owners, who should know, think they do.
How do you know better than them?

The other possibility is that
the new operators, as the latest business on the block, think they can provide a better or cheaper service than one of the existing operators who may go out of business as a result. So, again, are you suggesting that they are wrong? Or that you prefer a worse operator to stay in business whilst a better competitor has to stay away?

If there were six greengrocers in Brockley, would you wish a ban on a seventh on the same grounds? That you knew better?

NAT said...

I for one think that seven fried chicken shops in a lovely little place like Ladywell is waay too many.

Likewise seven bookies or seven shops selling crystals ansd aromatheapy products. seven haberdashers or seven bookshops, seven branches of starbuck, seven discrete sex shops, seven bridses for seven brothers, seven shops which insist on the eclectim of their stock sellng only things that don;t bear a relationship to each other (Like Lidl. 'Where are the suitcases'?, "By the watemelons")Seven shops selling books about the seven seditious Sadduce's of Cesearea. Seven chicken shops may be be six to many.

NAT said...

C;mon you pedants if you think you're hard enough!

Lady in the Well said...

It's just my opinion anon. I never claimed to be Mary Portas.

.

mary portass said...

c'mon darlings, you can accessorise with a few carefully placed pieces of chicken breast, just take it out of the box and think outside the box

it's all going to be so wonderful

Anonymous said...

@Lady in the Well. Yes, Mai Hong will re-open in the new premises and are letting the old one to the dirty chicken shop.
The convenience store next door is expanding into the old Rosa Parks premises.

Babs said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Babs said...

old Rosa Parks premises is being expanded in hope that tescos will take over, I was told this came from the owner, Mai Hong moved as they are the lease holders of the new building. think we need a nice resturant in ladywell that sells good food..

Anonymous said...

Don't think that's very likely - even with the two shops knocked together it would still be very small.

Pete said...

I'm not that bothered, and this is one of the closest shops to my house. It's been empty for the best part of two years having undergone one of the slowest refurbishments of all time!

My only issue will be the probable increase in rubbish on that stretch of road.

One of the funniest things I ever read was an email from the Ladywell Society about this shop with concerns about youths talking on phones in the street. Truely end of the world stuff...

Anonymous said...

All very balanced views.
Personally, I feel it is a shame for the area but that is just my opinion. A greasy fried shop is not something I want to see opening. I know times are tough and empty shops being filled is supposed to be good but I am finding it hard to see the silver lining with this one.

Lady in the Well said...

Can I just mention that the last chicken shop that opened in Ladywell was a crashing failure?

Rio Grill, in the shop which is now El's Kitchen.

They eventually branched out into Bart Simpson beach towels and second hand washing machines. Twas a glorious display on the pavement.

Anonymous said...

It seems one of the popular business strategies adopted by commercial property owners is to dream of being bought out by Tesco. For that you don't want any long term leases. So a policy of regular rent hikes frequently forces businesses below the borderline of profitability. So we see a procession of businesses come and go and the shopping parades become a litany of failures.

The business environment for retail outlets favours corporations and franchises who have the legal resources to deal with freeholders and the economies of scale to make turn a profit.

Our shopping spaces have become corporatised and sterile and the shopping parades are the left-overs.

It is risible to imagine any of this is the result of fair competition.

Did we vote for this?

Anonymous said...

"It seems one of the popular business strategies adopted by commercial property owners is to dream of being bought out by Tesco. For that you don't want any long term leases. So a policy of regular rent hikes frequently forces businesses below the borderline of profitability. So we see a procession of businesses come and go and the shopping parades become a litany of failures.

The business environment for retail outlets favours corporations and franchises who have the legal resources to deal with freeholders and the economies of scale to make turn a profit.

Our shopping spaces have become corporatised and sterile and the shopping parades are the left-overs.

It is risible to imagine any of this is the result of fair competition.

Did we vote for this?"

Sorry to burst your bubble but commercial property owners dream of shops that aren't empty in this day and age. A chicken shop is a rent paying tenant like any other.

There actually aren't that many chain shops in Ladywell/Deptford.

Simon@Geddes said...

I have to say that if we were going to have two more chicken shops located so closely together in Ladywell, then I would prefer them to all have a point of difference. If one was say more of a Nando's style of operation and the other was more of a KFC type of thing, then at least they would be offering variety. If one charged more for better chicken or had restaurant facilities - then again - we'd be getting a variety and choice.
I wouldn't mind if we got a Lebanese style kebab place or a Souvlaki take away to give us a choice other than the Ladywell Kebab House (excellent by the way).
I always feel it is important to have choice of places to eat on a high street especially if the places reflect the tastes, spending power and ethics of a diverse community.
One only has to read BC to know that people in this community have very different ideas as to how much and where they will spend their money. Just about every one of these opinions are valid as this is all down to individual choice.
If a market becomes saturated then it will become the survival of the fittest.
That said, a price war isn't always the answer either as quite often none of the businesses are able to make money and the margins become too tight for them to keep their premises in good order.
On a more positive note: Did anyone know that the Ladywell Village Cafe has new owners? The place has been refurbished, the toilets are spotless, the food is good and the prices are great. They offer something different to Oscars but they don't tread on their toes. I had two poached eggs on brown toast with mushrooms and a mug of tea for £3.95 the other day - great value.
The people are really nice also. I like Oscars but I like using the cafe also - not a problem.

NAT said...

Well said Simon and before that 'Honest Fayre' numpty comes along, that sounds like value, especially if the mushrooms didn't come from a tin as is the way with what passes for 'traditional fayre'.

The area needs a good Caff.

Ididnt said...

I live on vicars hill and have moved in recently to the area. It's great to see businesses like el's and slater & king doing well. Obviously there's a market there. What I don't understand is why lewisham council have allowed this chicken place to open.

Let's face it it will lower the tone of. N area that the council seem to have been trying to raise Why do it?

It ┼Áill encourage youths to loiter not to mention a huge increase in litter.

Please enlighten me.

Tamsin said...

The council actually have very limited grounds on which to refuse planning permission - and lowering the tone of an area is not one of them. If they refuse permission and the applicant appeals and wins that is a massive waste of public money.

Simon@Geddes said...

Interestingly, I forgot to mention in my last post that Mai Hong - yes those same people who are apparently moving their own take away business to another unit on Ladywell Road in order to allow a chicken takeaway to open in their present premises - objected to the planning committee against the opening of Oscars cafe. My understanding was, they were concerned that there would be too many food outlets in the area. If I'm wrong on this one I apologise in advance but that's what was told at the time by a reliable source. Hmmmm.

Anonymous said...

Simon@Geddes said...

"I had two poached eggs on brown toast with mushrooms and a mug of tea for £3.95 the other day - great value."

It does rather beg the question; "Where's the meat?"

Simon@Geddes said...

Well, they also serve a mixed grill which certain fits with the Atkins Diet I follow.

Mondee said...

Atkins?, Simon, I'm shocked. You seemed like such a sane, sensible kind of chap.

Simon@Geddes said...

Needs must I'm afraid when one has such a propensity for putting on weight.
Perhaps I should try the move more - eat less approach?
Oh, and stop drinking Guinness!

NAT said...

I could suggest a darling guiness establishment just far enough away from Ladywell (by the riverside walk) to be Calorie efficient.

Anonymous said...

Ladywell and its overabundance of Chicken shops seem part of a topical issue at the moment.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17701637

Whether new powers for Town Halls give more direction to the planning of shopping areas will come about and whether Lewisham would seize the initiative?

I am not holding my breath.

Anonymous said...

With Mae Hong, the new chicken shops and Masons, Ladywell is quickly establishing itself as the London capital of fare. The Coulgate Madia would do well to replicate their offerings.

Anonymous said...

Masons closed down months ago and the chicken shops aren't open yet.
Plus it has Elle's Kitchen which is a deli and presumably 'dishonest' in your strange and sad little world.
Next.

Anonymous said...

Not Masons sorry, Mayil Food & Wine.

Anonymous said...

Hmmm. Right, ok. You enjoy yourself.
*backs away slowly*

Pete said...

The "grand" opening is today. Half price on all food apparently, so if you fancied some fried chicken I'd get yourself down there.

I don't think it really lowers the tone that much to be honest, at least any more than it being a boarded up shop. They even have fried chicken places in Stoke Newington you know...

CapnPatch said...

Well, they're queuing into the street.

Chicken George said...

They've made a good job of it to be honest.
That said, I saw loads of discarded chicken boxes and bones on Algernon Road. Let's see if the new proprietors take any kind of responsibility with regard to tidying up.

Jan said...

I was annoyed when I saw that two chicken shops had opened. Why does Ladywell need two fried chicken? And I too have seen empty chicken boxes and bones on the street.

Jan said...

Does anyone know what Mai Hong's new address is?

Anonymous said...

Now that they are opened, I have to say that the chicken/burger selection at 222 Algernon Rd is quite diverse, and I certainly enjoyed it.

As for Ladywell road, that certainly is the opposite. Awful.

To those stuck up about the kind of fare on offer, well it time to face reality, most locals simply cannot afford to pay the prices associated with better quality food.

Having said that, I dearly hope that something re-opens in Mason's equivalent to how it used to be, when it initially opened.

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