New nursery to open on Foxberry Road

Simon writes:

I had a leaflet through the door today about a nursery opening at 76-78 Foxberry Road at the Elim Chruch.

I wondered if anyone had heard anything about it. I am worried about the parking and traffic as Foxberry Road has a big problem with people parking for the Station as it is.

I am not averse to the nursery and think it would be a good addition to Brockley but I think that the Council should have put some restirctions in place regarding drop off. They are also planning on opening at 7.30am, which seems very early for a residential street.

Details of the nursery here.

61 comments:

Anonymous said...

Read all the way through (Elim Chruch???) clicked through to find out more before it turns out it is about bloody screaming rug biters.
I was looking forward to a new nursery full of young plants, seeds and tools.
Bah.

P.

Anonymous said...

I thought it was a plant nursery too and getting really excited. Never mind :-(

Is it still going to operate as a church on the weekend or is the building being converted?

Anonymous said...

Why are comments being over-moderated?

Reg said...

Oppose it.

Brockley Nick said...

@Anon - feel free to drop me a line and I will explain why I deleted your comment.

Anonymous said...

More info here:
http://www.firststartnurseries.co.uk/index.html

Faux Berry said...

I’m in the same boat. Not necessarily against it, but would have thought that the change of use would have required some kind of consultation. Parking is virtually impossible already, especially since the advent of the ELL, and to have parents drive here and leave their cars for the day (which must be a big selling point for a nursery at this location) would have a large impact. Might be time to open up the dreaded CPZ debate again (not that it ever really closed in some eyes…).

Foxberry Roader said...

As a Foxberry Road resident I am concerned about this. Like others, I am not worried about the nursery, just the parking impact on an already packed road. Increasingly cars use Foxberry Road as a rat run (despite the traffic calming humps) to cut out a portion of the main road. I have called Lewisham Planning regarding this issue today.

The Elim Church is likely to have a D1 use class which does not require change of use application if they wish to open a nursery. Therefore the church are able to open a nursery without any consultation from planning.

So yes a refresh of the CPZ is probably due.

Anonymous said...

There has to be a more imaginative solution than cpz

Anonymous said...

Will the traffic/parking really be such a big deal? Surely most people will be local so will walk. Who uses a nursery that's miles away?
Even if people do drive they will only park to drop off and pick up so they'll only be there a few minutes at most.

local yokel said...

IMO parents won't be able to park to drop their children off in Foxberry road anyway as the residents have plenty of their own cars - will probably parking further away and walking to the nursery. The Hilly Fields Day Nursery is very close to this location.

Bea said...

I have no problem with a childrens nursery opening up there. There's a nursery (as well as several childminders) on Foxberry Road already so I don't anticipate one more making a huge difference.

Faux Berry said...

"Even if people do drive they will only park to drop off and pick up so they'll only be there a few minutes at most."

Hmm... I think people are more likely to plan it as part of their commute, so drop of the car and kids and get the train. Happy to be proved wrong.
Has anyone got a more imaginative solution than a CPZ? I'd be happy to hear it. My preferred would be a no parking between 1200-1300 kind of affair, but they don't earn enough money for their own upkeep (or so I read hear last time this was brought up).

kolp said...

This is a good thing for the parents around here. I was in the Orchard recently and to hear the ordeal that people (women) have to go through, in terms of childcare is awful, exacerbated by the cutbacks.

In terms of parking I reckon that most people will walk to the nursery.
I remember the Manor Avenue nursery discussions, few welcome these things.

Foxberry Roader said...

I do support the new nursery, I just think that the impact on parking will be significant. Both of my children have attended Hilly Fields Day nursery and I am aware that a large amount of parents drive to that nursery. I agree with the comment by Faux Berry that people will plan this into their commute.

Bea said...

IMO - even if people do plan it into their commute, so what?! It just means another commuter (and there are plenty that park around the station anyway) or resident won't get the slots and have to park slightly further away and walk an extra 5 minutes.

Brockley Cross said...

As another Foxberry Road resident I have to agree. Parking is already a complete nightmare for residents of the street. The only day you can get a space on "my" part of the street is Saturdays - as every other day it's completely taken up by people using the ELL or the church. I think another nursery is a good idea, but do think at some point we're going to have to look at how we can ensure residents get some degree of priority for parking in their own street. As for whether parents will park - I know several already who use Hillyfields nursery (round the corner) and drop off the car outside before getting on the train, and I would have thought that parents would plan to do similar with this nursery.

Brockley Cross said...

Having to park a few minutes away from your home is not a big deal if you are an adult on your own - but try parking around the corner and then trying to get back to your place with two under fives and the shopping... or if you are elderly as many of the residents are.

Anonymous said...

I agree, the CPZ debate has to be opened again. The roads around the station are used by commuters daily, including weekends.

Anonymous said...

The "CPZ" debate has been had. You can't just keep "having" it until you get a CPZ. It's been decided - you're not getting one.

kolp said...

If Jenny Jones- had got in as Mayor, road pricing /congestion charge would have been rolled out beyond central London and I suspect that that would see a lot less car commuting.

As it is we have Boris, fares are high and the cost/benefit of using a car despite parking controls, petrol price rises and all the attendent costs means is still in cars favour.

In terms of generating an imaginative solution to cpz & commuting, focussing on addressing that imbalance is where the debate needs to be.

Jum said...

'If Jenny Jones had got in as mayor.'

hahahahahahahahahahahaha *wipes tears from eyes*

Anonymous said...

IMO - poor kids being dropped off at 7.30

but maybe the church will keep or pay for a set-down area outside?

Faux Berry said...

"The "CPZ" debate has been had". Has it? The last time this was done officially was about 6 years ago if memory serves. I'd have thought that quite a few Foxberry residents weren't around then and would like some input. I would also think that as the circunmstances have changed, with the ELL arrival and this new nursery, that another debate/poll is reaasonable

CPZ said...

The "CPZ" debate has been had?!?

I must have missed it. Who has decided? I remember something 6 years ago, my kids were not born yet, and Brockley was a country village.

Can we have it done officially rather than just on Brockley Central. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Get a driveway if you want a CPZ. We're paying through our noses as it is, thank you.

Simon, Foxberry Road Resident and Parent said...

Get a driveway,

Have you ever been to Foxberry Road?

People who think children are Not driven miles for Nursary are deluded. Half of Brockley parents have to drive to Croften Park or Forest Hill for Nursary's and parents from those areas drive to Brockley. A new Nursary in Brockley is needed and will have a strong demand. The church on Brockly Road is a good place for it, but the implications on the road as a whole are not so welcome, a CPZ should be demanded, an 8.00am start should be the earliest opening time and a drop off zone should be set up to stop cars blocking the Road.
In terms of Child road safety, if the traffic is going to increase measures should be taken to protect children and other pedestrians walking along this busy pedestrian road

Martin at Brockley Cross said...

Simon
If you need a nursery here because at present children are being driven miles to go to a nursery, then traffic might be expected to decline once parents can walk their children to local nurseries. And if the nursery is full of local children others won't be driving miles to drop their children off at this one and then park outside for the full day. And a CPZ won't stop drop-offs. So really there is no linkage between a new nursery and a CPZ at all.

A CPZ would be horrible. It won't guarantee a parking space, it will lower the value of the houses, increase the amount of money we are paying to the Council and ensure that those who are able to turn their front gardens in parking will do so.

This my first posting here, but the whole idea of a CPZ is so dreadful I felt I must say something. I'll be out on the streets fighting against it.

Anonymous said...

How is a CPZ going to affect the prices of houses downward is really a mistery; by how much £150?!? W1 is not cheap even with CPZ.

It is not possible to convert the front garden in parking, as the Council protects public parking spaces. (if not I would have already converted mine) Few people just do it without application, but it is just your fault if you do not report it.

A CPZ is well overdue, as the majority of the people on Foxberry road are experiencing.

Anonymous said...

CPZ is like a madcap Green policy that's somehow escaped the ethical cafes of Brighton and made its way into the real world. It's a virus spreading its way through london.

Simon said...

Martin
I agree fully that a CPZ would not stop drop offs and would suggest a drop off zone to allow cars to stop safely, the only other option will be to double park during drop off, causing congestion and would not be that safe.
Nursaries are not like local schools where the children are from the locale, parents driving babies and toddlers to the Nursery from other parts of Brockley, Telegraph Hill as well as further afield will cause congestion, by definition these people will be on the way to work, via Car or Train. If you look at the Children arriving at the Hilly Fields Nursery you will find 90% are by car. Most of these parents are 'local , they Currently add to parking problems on Foxberry Rd. . I speak from experience as one of the few parents lucky enough to be able to walk my children to the nursery.
I am not sure if the evidence of reduction of house prices and in any case not really an issue as I certainly have no intention of moving from the wonderful area of Brockley, very few of the 'gardens 'on Foxberry Rd could be turned into parking, they are simply not large enough. Also what is the problem with giving more money to the council, with national government cuts they need as much money as possible to help with local services, where the CPZ might be effective would be convincing people to give up the car due to further costs, overall a good thing in my view. Martin all in all I feel your comment about CPZ being "dreadful" and "fighting on the streets" to be a little excessive and over the top to a thoroughly sensible idea to deal with a problem that has grown exponentially over the last 6 years.
Please do come out in the street, but not fighting, see the issues for yourself and I hope you could reasses your last comment

Tentative CPZ supporter said...

I would have thought that if anything, a CPZ would put up a house price slightly. People want to be able to park near their house, and a road that is not absolutely rammed with parked cars - and all the congestion issues that come with that - is a lot more attractive to look at. In my experience, roads with CPZs are more often in 'well-to-do' areas.

Anonymous said...

Why does everyone assume parents want to drive their children to nursery? I've got one right down the road from me and I see lots of parents walking, biking, scooting with their children. The only reason people drive is if there is not a nursery nearby to where they live and they are forced to go quite a distance for it. I'm betting Foxberry rd's nursery will have enough local residents to choose from considering the number of buggies being pushed around Brockley and esp. that area of it.

Anonymous said...

Roads with CPZs are always rammed with cars, they're just paying for the privilege. There are emptier roads in the conservation area, all with free parking.

Tamsin said...

@ Tentative CPZ supporter. A CPZ does not necessarily mean you can park near your house. A resident can apply for a permit irrespective of whether there is actually enough spaces on the street for all who apply. And I believe they are issued irrespective of the number of places. Certainly I've heard that Kensington and Chelsea notoriously did that a few years back.

It just means that everyone gets more territorial because they are paying out for the privilege of maybe being able to park near where they live. And you have to pay for visitors' tickets, and there is more street clutter, and (if it's not a Conservation Area) people are tempted to turn their front gardens to hard standing (which, if you think about it, reduces even further the spaces available on the street). Yada, yada, yada - sorry to be boring...

Faux Berry said...

Presuming that Saturday is an example of only residents parking in the road(as the church isn't on, and less people park to commute), then there would be plenty of parking available.
Oh, and has been mentioned, none of the gardens on Foxberry are big enough for a drive, and even if they were they wouldn't get permission to put one in.
Oh, and as for driving to a nursery, there are plenty who drop off their cars for the Hillyfields nursery round the corner, so extrapolating from that is reasonable.

Anonymous said...

Apology accepted.

Tamsin said...

OK - thinking about it, Foxberry would have enough space for the residents who have cars (nicely in the middle with not many flat conversions and not many two car families), and the front gardens are not convertible. But the points about street clutter and visitors remain - and the obvious one I didn't bother to state about the council seeing such schemes as an open ended cash cow. Hence the refusal to deal with any specific problem by selective hours, unlike Bromley and other boroughs.

Mung the merciless said...

CPZs are a nightmare. I lived in one in Lambeth for 13 years. Every day I thank my lucky stars I don't live in one any more. And I'm not joking.

It costs a fortune - you pay for the privilege of parking outside or near your own house and for any family, friends or workmen visiting too. Traffic wardens hang out of your road waiting for someone to slip up. Woe betide you if you have to have a courtesy car or anything like that. You always have to renew your permit in person and there is always a queue. I had guys deliver a sofa from Wales and they knew how bad my road was for parking and traffic wardens. So really folks be very careful what you wish for!

Brockley Nick said...

With the exception of a few roads in the area (and I accept Foxberry Road is one of them), I don't see that parking around Brockley Station is yet a sufficiently accute problem in Brockley that it would require the sledgehammer of a CPZ.

Anonymous said...

The thing about CPZs is if you have one anywhere, you pretty much have to blanket an area with them (as they then cause a very real problem of overloading the free streets with the same amount of cars as you started with).

Therefore, no to CPZ in the interest of maintaining an honest Brockley.

NAT said...

They are, as you say, the GM of parking solutions.

Mungo Clarkson said...

"If Jenny Jones- had got in as Mayor, road pricing /congestion charge would have been rolled out beyond central London and I suspect that that would see a lot less car commuting.

As it is we have Boris, fares are high and the cost/benefit of using a car despite parking controls, petrol price rises and all the attendent costs means is still in cars favour.

In terms of generating an imaginative solution to cpz & commuting, focussing on addressing that imbalance is where the debate needs to be."

Really? Sounds like the usual high blown but ultimately simplistic drivel the left usually comes out with.

LOL: Jenny Jones as Mayor, where were the other 1,000,000 missing votes for that one!!!

Anonymous said...

"They are, as you say, the GM of parking solutions."

Do you mean they offer a genuine solution to the problem and are only opposed by neurotic loons.

Anonymous said...

Are we talking about General Motors or Genetic Modification?

Faux Berry said...

"The thing about CPZs is if you have one anywhere, you pretty much have to blanket an area with them (as they then cause a very real problem of overloading the free streets with the same amount of cars as you started with).

Therefore, no to CPZ in the interest of maintaining an honest Brockley."

which is an interesting viewpoint. You say there is a problem of overloading (or there wouldn't be enough cars to overload the free areas), but you don't want it to be addressed.

Anonymous said...

If you drastically reduced the number of free spaces there would be overloading. It's possible to intelligently understand this point whilst understanding why we don't need a CPZ, therefore keeping the full allocation of free roads.

NAT said...

No the overloading will occur when certain residents chose to park in adjoining streets for free thus getting up the noses of the residents there who will become more disposed to their own CPZ aas a result

NAT said...

I mean by the GM of parking solutions that it spreads contagiously, is largely unwanted but by a few zealots and seeks to charge for what was a free resource.

Anonymous said...

What is GM?

Anonymous said...

Mungo clarkson? A tired joke that wasn't funny to begin with and a boreish halfwitted windbag whose well past his sell by. A guardianista stereotype and a daily express wet dream combined. A confused and slightly tragic attempt at satire.

Your sir have excelled yourself.

NAT said...

17:18 I didn't think it needed explaining either, but an Anon needed some help.

You?

NAT said...

Damn a friendly fire incident due to Anon generated confusion.

Point stands.

Anonymous said...

"I mean by the GM of parking solutions that it spreads contagiously, is largely unwanted but by a few zealots and seeks to charge for what was a free resource."

The real zealots are the people who attack scientific trials because they fear objective knowledge will challenge their ultimately faith based beliefs. Or Mungs as we call them in these parts.

NAT said...

There is no risk of cross pollination from those trials?

What do you think of CPZ's by the way?

Danja said...

The real zealots are the people who attack scientific trials because they fear objective knowledge will challenge their ultimately faith based beliefs.

I agree with that bit wholeheartedly.

Or Mungs as we call them in these parts.

Oh dear, you are a twat after all.

NAT said...

Fear objective knowledge,hardly.
Fear foregone conclusions might be nearer the mark. Aaaanyway...CPZ's?

Mungo Jones said...

CPZ's? As a card carrying Mung I'm against cars, except Volvo estates, and characterful ancient bangers. So if we smash up all the cars they will not be necessary. Simples (-istic).

Anonymous said...

Nick, please use your normal account when commenting!

Anonymous said...

Over one third of cars and vans around the station belong to commuters. They arrive in the morning and leave in the afternoon. CPZ is designed to stop this in areas such as the roads around the station. A consultation will allow a decision road by road, so if you are not in a road affected by commuters you have nothing to fear.

Also commuters are rational individuals, so it is proven that their numbers decreases in direct proportion (logaritmic relationship) to the distance they have to walk. So if the CPZ is correctly implemented, it will stop commuters all together. Resendent spillage is instead very limited.

Foxberry road and other roads around the station need a CPZ

A mum said...

This should probably be a new topic but is there a need to review the childminding available in Lewisham Borough? - how do you register to become a childminder, nationally the figures have reduced drastically. This is probably due to a number of factors, ofsted inspections, does the council still restrict you applying if there are two or three others in your road (this was a shocking revelation for me) with vacancies. I know of childminders who have become nannies instead.

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