Trial runs for the ELL's Clapham service

London Reconnections reports that:

Train testing on the East London Line Extension (Phase 2) between Surrey Quays and Clapham Junction has now begun. The route was fully electrified at the weekend, and the first 378 ran on Sunday. Driver training will begin shortly, and further testing will now take place, ahead of the extension’s official opening in December.


The impact that the ELL extension will have on Brockley travelers is uncertain. It will mean more trains through the the core route, from Dalston to Surrey Quays, but it will also mean more passengers at Canada Water. Although it won't provide any new direct destinations, it should make travelling to South West London a little more convenient.

46 comments:

Anonymous said...

for some telegraph hill residents it may provide an alternative option when travelling south from say whitechapel- if the first train they encounter doesn't go through brockley they could jump out at queens road peckham.

Ed (cpz) said...

This will be good off peak as we have a great new SW/SE link but Canada Water will be even more hellish during peak flows.

Anonymous said...

Finally opening the South East up to the better parts of London.

Anonymous said...

Remember that Clapham High St is also an effective interchange with the Northern Line (although I'm sure someone here will go on to describe it as a schlep...)

Anonymous said...

why will Canada Water be busier? can change at Surrey Quays

Brock' Olly said...

Because all the people along the new route will presumably use the inter change at CW to get to Canary Wharf as an alternative to mainline trains into London terminals + tube across London.

Brockley Nick said...

Canada Water station will be busier because another 6 trainloads of people will be using it as an interchange every hour.

Anonymous said...

wonderful, Canada Water Station has had a transforming effect.

It has taken so long for this link. Roll on december.

Lou Baker said...

Worth mentioning too that this new service replaces the existing South London Line - permanently depriving some stations of all the direct links to central London and further axing direct central London trains from other stations. All this while providing little extra benefit.

Anonymous said...

Will the train eventually go all the way to Richmond?

Anonymous said...

I've heard rumours that Eurostar is testing out Crofton Park as a potential stop... But who needs Paris if you live in Crofton Park?

Brockley Jon said...

Don't the trains pass through Brixton on route to Clapham? Shame they couldn't have put a stop there. Perhaps a tube buff can tell us why.

Anonymous said...

Brixton pretty much IS Clapham. Just means walking down one street, so the extra station isn't really needed (except possibly by chippy 'hyperlocal' Londoners)

Anonymous said...

Since it stops at denmark hill and peckham rye there's no need to go up to surray quays and fight it out with the crowds only to come back south. The crofton park/ nunhead trains will drop you off at either station and then you can make a nice simple change onto this new line.

Does what Lou is saying mean that you can't change to go to victoria at denmark hill as easily at a weekend now though?

david said...

Anon 1254, surely London Bridge is a useful intersection with the Northern Line already existing?

Anonymous said...

Even more scum to get on at Surrey Quays, great.

Ben H said...

For the love of god borrow the money now and build the proper rail infrastructure South East London needs. It's only gonna get busier since everyone in the world wants to live in London.

Has the bottleneck at Canada Water even been acknowledged by the powers that be?

Anonymous said...

It's an intersection of a tube-like service with the northern line, which is what I meant. No one wants to be looking up departure boards to find which platform of 16 their train departing in 30 seconds is on.

Anonymous said...

Yes that's right, Clapham, Brixton, they're the same thing yes, exxxxxxactly the same!!!! let's not go splitting hairs here!!!!

david said...

Ben H, what do you suggest? I think the public transport system works fine in London. Not perfect but nothing ever is. I haven't been late for work due to public transport for years. Possibly not since 2007 - not counting that time the whole network closed down due to snow. I live in Brockley and work in both Russell Square and Victoria and generally it's absolutely fine getting in (including London Bridge anon @1527).

I'm saying this because it's easy demand perfection and to assume the grass in greener either elsewhere in London or other cities. It isn't. We've got a good deal. Sure, Canada Water gets congested and always has done, but since the ELL was extended the overground is much quieter. Swings and roundabouts.

Anonymous said...

Clapham North station is a 1 mile walk from Brixton station, which is virtually nothing (or 3 Shleps by Brockley standards)

Anonymous said...

It's a 20 minute walk. More for some. Stop being a sanctimonious twat.

Anonymous said...

Exactly. 20 minutes is nothing, really. Stop being a sanctimonious mung.

Anonymous said...

It's a nice stroll if it's your choice. Added to a commute, each way, every day, and it's quite a lot.
But then you know that really. Unless you're even more stupid than you sound. Troll.

DJ said...

"20 minutes is nothing, really. Stop being a sanctimonious mung."

I imagine you've got a lot of time at your disposal but some of us have relationships, children, jobs etc that mean we need to be places a bit quicker.
You might find out about stuff like that when you grow up.

First World Problems said...

Is it time for me again?

Ben H said...

David

It is congested now and can only get worse, the ELL is great but was done on the cheap.

Reliability is fine, not great though. Upgrades take years and years, not many more can squeeze onto the carriages I use. Canada Water is ridiculous and soon many more will be flowing in....

New Cross Ben said...

@BrockleyJon

re: a Brixton interchange, it does seem like a missed opportunity, but there is just nowhere to build platforms on the line the Overground will use as is actually passes over/above the mainland station. Not without a complete (read: costly) overhaul of Brixton Mainland.

See this pic for clarification: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Brixton_railway_station_02.jpg

Mb said...

Remember that from 2018(ish) the whitechaple interchange to crossrail will open. There will also be a far more frequent (and longer) service on the District and H&C lines from there. Whitechaple will be as, possibly more, important than Canada water.

As for the chap who hasn't been late due to toufic transport for years...really? AND we carried the most ever passengers last year and that is trending upwards. Standing still really isn't an option. Perhaps if London was allowed to use its credit rating to borrow the money to invest...oh, that was a ken idea ignored by Blair, brown et al. boris has also suggested it, wonder if it will fly now?

Ben H said...

Forgot about Crossrail! :D

Anonimus said...

We don't even need any public transport! Just walk to work you lazy mungs! If you can't walk, crawl. First world problem much? Right guys?! Wasssssssupppp!

Tim said...

London has a credit rating? You what??

Mb said...

TfL did have a triple A rating. Gone south a bit, due to the recent little difficulties! See...

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/investorrelations/1468.aspx

kens idea was to borrow money at triple A rtes rather than pay the private companies private rate of interest in return for them borrowing the money and adopting the risk of funding a 30 yr upgrade. Trouble is the PPP companies were never going to accept the full risk so their exposure was capped. metro net went bust, they lost £300m(ish) but TfL took on the rest of the loss. The risk was never really anywhere else other than on their books. TfL can and do borrow, ken (and boris) both wanted to increase the amount theyre allowed to borrow, is capped by central government..... I think, someone with the knowledge may well correct me.

Rational Plan said...

I think you'll find that TFL have already borrowed a lot. You don't want to go to far down that road. look what it's done to New York.

david said...

MB, yep, really. I truly don't remember the last time I was late for work due to the transport system. Ask my boss. Maybe I'm just lucky.

My point was, and Ben I acknowledge that on the occasions I do go through Canada Water in rush hour it's bsuy but not hellish, how do you improve the network? Yes, numbers are going up but it'd be hard to add more trains or build longer platforms and building whole new lines is a long, long project. Look at how many years the ELL was closed to basically build a couple bridges and relay some track on an existing line (yes, I'm being glib).

It's easy to say that the system is crammed, expensive (no arguments there actually) and badly laid out, but what's the alternative?

Personally, I'd like to see a later running ELL by about an hour to bring it in line with the overground and an extension of the New Cross branch towards Lewisham linking with the DLR.

(Never said it was perfect)

Kevin Milburn said...

In particular, it should make travel to SW London easier for those of us who live in Crofton Park. We'll be able to get a train from CP and change easily at Peckham Rye or Denmark Hill in order to reach all stations to Clapham Jnct.

Mb said...

"It's easy to say that the system is crammed, expensive (no arguments there actually) and badly laid out, but what's the alternative? "

Make it less crowded and badly laid out, what's the alternative? Victoria is getting an entire new ticket hall, this is a good thing. The alternative is doing nothing, so not really an alternative.

Anonymous said...

Opening up the Crofton Park line during the week with trains going to Victoria would help (and be very handy), they run at weekends!!

It was up for discussion a while back apparently but Boris quashed it!!!!! Boooooooo to Boris

Anonymous said...

They don't run at weekends any more. All trains go to Blackfriars now.

Anonymous said...

Extending the Overground from New Cross to Lewisham (and beyond to Catford even?) would be a great boost to the transport in the area. Surely that would be fairly simple.

david said...

Varying the Crofton Park to Victoria service as well as Blackfriars wold get my vote too.

Anonymous said...

Even more reason to go from Lewisham to somewhere else to shop?

Can't see the reverse happening.

mg said...

Does anyone with understanding of these things know why the CP trains have moved to Blackfriars at the weekend? Before the works they went to Victoria, wasn't the idea to return to the pre-works service? Will they go to Victoria on weekends when the District/Circle is off?

Ben H said...

David the point I am trying to make is if its bad now (maybe you leave for work at 6am?!) it's gonna be a hell of a lot worse in 10, 20 years.

There is a growing problem of overcrowding that can only be remedied by serious investment.

One cancelled train at peak time in Brockley screws the whole morning up for everyone.

I find it a little bizarre you are so content with the status quo.

david said...

Hi Ben, I'm not suggesting that nothing is done to keep advancing the system and I'm sure TFL etc have teams mapping customer numbers and journey route predictors and I think -hope- that in 10years there will have been the major changes needed to keep up with the city.

However, I also think the transport system is easy to attack for being dreadful when it actually does an amazing job most of the time. Sure, if my 0750 to London Bridge is cancelled then it can cause trouble but I tend to switch to the ELL, head down to New Cross and try that line or get a bus. The multi-layered nature of the system means I have options and that's incredible.

Otherwise I was just trying to get debate going about actual ways to improve the system rather than just "make it better". You can't make the platforms longer in most cases - although you could run more trains at peaks times which use the full length of the existing platforms - and you can't add significantly more trains in rush hour, so what else can we come up with?

Anonymous said...

Indeed, I can see cars being progressively restricted in London and so we will need more options suburban transport options.

The trams of Croydon seem very good and there were once trams going down Brockley road.

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