The online home for all things Brockley (SE4), St John's, Ladywell, Nunhead and Telegraph Hill
The Brockley Mess
Hasn't it had a garden for at least a few years?
Does it offer a refuge from kids?
first anon, they've redone it.
The chair and table are the same as before. The decking was already there. Is the 'new' bit some artwork on the fence, or is there something else?
I love it!
Maybe the reason you wouldn't know it from their website is that they don't consider it a new garden. Looks identical to last time I went.
They retweeted the BC tweet about their new garden. No-one said it's revolutionary, but it's nice. Chill.
Garden: n. A piece of ground (often enclosed) where fruits, flowers, herbs, or vegetables are cultivated; without specification.In what way is the area a garden, or does the photograph not do it justice?
So many snide pedants! You should all get together and have sex - might cheer some of you up a bit.
So it takes out the fantastically named Hair Forest and the ex tattoo parlour as well.http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&biw=1920&bih=921&wrapid=tlif134615286580510&q=403+new+cross+road&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x487602f70e88bd5b:0x2bc66e9b1962b7b6,403+New+Cross+Rd,+London+SE14+6LA&gl=uk&sa=X&ei=fqk8ULWQGOyp0AXG-IGYAg&ved=0CCAQ8gEwAA
They could have a water feature topped by a naked David Beckham in the garden for all I care. Yet again was treated like sh*t for daring to walk in with a (well behaved) baby the other day
The telling off given to parents with noisy children is my favourite thing about the place. Always some entertainment to be had.
Never had our children told off, but we've been tempted to tell staff that it's not enough to provide tables, chairs and, particularly, high chairs, you also have to clean them... a drag I know but important to us. Coupled with poor extract leaving a lingering cooking-fat smell on hair & clothing, we've been put off going in for coffee or lunch, so good news for the Jaffas, 2 less mop heads to ignite your apparently quite short fuses.
The Mess is an Art Cafe.This fact seems to be lost on some customers.Fortunately Brockley seems to be full of choices that might be more appealing to the free spending, well wheeled matrons and their voluble bundles of joy. The Brockley Mess garden is a tasteful improvement. Hopefully this is just the start and we might see the Mess open in the evenings before long.
You miss my point Anon, paying to sit in a grubby caff don't appeal to me even when flying solo & meeting the childless. Are you saying in an Art Cafe the Cafe element is just a nice-to-have, and doesn't need to be executed well? Canvas & Cream in FHill combine Art, an inclusive day time Cafe and evening destination dining all under one roof.
Its standards and execution are fine for an Art Cafe. It is a fact that places frequented by matrons and their and their free expression children tend be a burden on the staff. All that mess and grubby manners.It is good to hear that there is a place in Forest Hill that has hit upon a winning formula.I am sure all the cafe staff in Brockley would wave a tearful farewell if a wagon train of buggies set off into the sunset to visit their new Mecca.
Be a bit foolish of them if they did. Turning away custom obviously being a great idea for any business...Still, it's their livelihood. Plenty of other places will welcome my money.
Odd isn't it? The incisive analysis of those who don't own cafes. It's thriving so obviously it's attracting people who want to be there. As always, don't go if the food, ambience or price doesn't fit with what you are after.
Turning away the custom of parents with their mewling Mungos in turn brings in other custom, so I dare say they know what they're doing. The sticky-handed pound isn't worth that much!
Yes, I'm sure it'll be packed with 'working from home' types making a coffee last 2 hours while they abuse the free wi-fi.A pound is a pound is a pound.
Cafes have to decide what sort of custom they wish to attract.It is a rare establishment that keeps all of the customers happy all of the time.I would be very happy to see a cafe in Brockley devoted to the Mums, Babies and Toddlers, where kids can be expressive and mothers can chat motherly things. An Organic, gluten-free, easy wipe place staffed by mumsy staff and with plenty of space for buggies of all sizes.For some reason, such exclusive places are not considered a winning business proposition.
Cafes are the new pubs.
I agree there is a market for a mums and babies cafe. The do exist and places like Giraffe cater to the family market very well. However I think you can keep most people happy as long as they are realistic in their expectations. It's a cafe - there will possibly be noise and people (perhaps children) that may annoy you. Similarly it's not unreasonable to expect parents to control their kids.This is a big city filled with lots of different types of people - if you can't get along with that then stay at home.
Maybe someone should tell Starbucks, Costa and so on that they are probably losing money catering for all those laptop types.If I saw big money going into a Mumsnet cafe I would believe it.
Hardly comparable. Starbucks etc aren't in Brockley but in more commercial areas - for a good reason. Footfall.They also make vastly more on take out coffees than people eating in.
Anon@11:58.. right, no market for families, except for that tapped into by Jam Circus (high chairs, buggy space, staff are really welcoming to families), Pistachios, Hopscotch, Try Tapas & Nandi Nandi Iin HOP, the excellent Dish & Spoon in Nunhead... Sure, independent traders are their own bosses & if they choose to give lousy service to families they can expect to drive their custom away, but the market really is there.
"Similarly it's not unreasonable to expect parents to control their kids."You'd think so wouldn't you - but all too often I've been trying to enjoy a quiet drink or meal locally, while at the next table a parent stares into space while little Finlay bangs a spoon against a plate for 45 minutes or small Mungo cries constantly. It depresses me.
Don't you know telling youngsters off inhibits their future creativity you philistine!
I truly hope that Jeremy is joking.
@Anonymous 13.30: I don't believe that's true - but even if it is you've still completely missed the point about all sorts of different people rubbing along together in public places.Perhaps you should just stay at home. Misanthropes like you depress me.
I take Kanye and Chantelle to Morleys all the time and they behave fine. Well, I suppose they do - I'm usually outside with a fag on and besides I already beat the shit out of them most days, just in case!
I'm sorry, you can't excuse bad behaviour on the part of children OR parents based on "all sorts of people rubbing along together". That's such a lazy attitude and indicative of the "Jeremy" type comments above - behaviour and good social standards are everyone's responsibility, especially parents'.
@Mezzer. Yes, I am joking yet somehow never funny. It's confusing isn't it?
I didn't say that - I sad you have to allow for a certain amount of noise and disturbance.I don't believe most children are badly behaved in cafes, in Brockley or elsewhere - I've very rarely experienced it.People, especially children, make noise - if you can't cope with that then don't go out.
In my experience most parents are mortified if their kid is causing a disturbance. I know I am. A certain amount of noise is only to be expected with children. If you want silence try a library. Or a church.
"Boo hoo hoo - there are children having fun in a cafe. And a baby crying! I'm depressed!"FFS - man up!
Control your kids.And yes, most children aren't badly behaved. It just takes one...
Same with adults.
Quite so. We tend to do something about them when they kick off.
Do we? I've seen far more pissed up annoying arseholes in pubs and restaurants than I ever have troublesome kids in a cafe. They seem to be rather tolerated.
I don't know, a lot of the ones I go in have security which forcibly remove them when needed. Perhaps the same for little Hugo?
Yes, we could have bouncers in cafes. Or we could be sensible and either tolerate a little harmless noise or go elsewhere. Like the pub?Also, Hugo is unlikely to glass you if he gets angry.
"I don't know, a lot of the ones I go in have security which forcibly remove them when needed"You go to pubs & restaurants with bouncers that remove noisy customers? No, you don't.Double standards. Easy to pick on mums and kids though, eh?
While most parents are fine and their kids well behaved in public places, there is a minority that are certainly not.They make life Hell for other customers and staff.Some families have been barred from cafes in Brockley because of the trouble they have caused.There are some very odd ideas about what constitutes responsible parenting and appropriate behaviour in public places.Misanthropes sometimes have kids in tow.
"Yes, we could have bouncers in cafes. Or we could be sensible and either tolerate a little harmless noise or go elsewhere. Like the pub?Also, Hugo is unlikely to glass you if he gets angry."I love how there isn't a third option, where people regular their, and their childs, behaviour. So telling in this age of "let them do what they want".
People usually do moderate their and their child's behaviour. It's only a ridiculous, imaginary scenario that it's somehow the norm. It isn't. occasionally kids act up, get over it. The world is a better place when people allow a little chaos, the alternative is Switzerland.
Would you rather we gag the children? I don't see how else to silence them. I'm happy for kids to make some noise. Like adults do. People like you just love to tell others what to do and how to behave. Please don't breed.
I've been going to cafes regularly, in and around Brockley, for 3 years now and I can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen children really misbehaving and disturbing other customers. Maybe I've been lucky but I think some posters here have an axe to grind and are, frankly, just making shit up.
Parents of Brockley come to Top Chef where the food is honest and children not frowned upon!
Don't go here, food was at best mediocre, the tables floor, menus, cup I was given to drink from and seats were dirty and coverd in a sticky film. As I passed a stack of high chairs in the window I assumed it was a child freindly place, but it's not. The high chairs were also very dirty. If I'd brought my child he would not be put into one, infact I don't think I would of stayed and let him eat here but as it was just me and time was short I stayed. The biggest turn off apart from the filth, and food was the appalling staff and the way they spoke to me and treated me as a costumer. Why people retern there I do not know.
Ah, maybe you are the person who let their child run around the cafe screaming and damaging the art work. Then had an argument with the owners telling them off for not being child friendly.The place is very child friendly. I have seen mothers sitting having a nice gossip, their children in high chairs throwing food around. The staff diligently cleaning the goo from the tables and chairs, sweeping the floor and disinfecting everything when they leave.The food they sweep up is often not bought at the cafe because the little ones have all kinds of intolerances, much like their mothers.I pity the cafe owners of Brockley sometimes.The children are fine, but they need to be looked after. But some of their parents really do not know how to behave in public themselves. They think the world revolves around themselves and do not respect anyone.It is really embarrassing, there are some really good customers with children as well.
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