East London Line to Clapham opening date confirmed

TfL has confirmed that services on the East London Line extension to Clapham Junction will begin on December 9th, 2012.

When it opens, it will complete a (nearly) unbroken loop around London and allow Brockley residents to reach Clapham Junction, Clapham High Street and Denmark Hill via Surrey Quays.

London Reconnections also reports that TfL have also snuck a couple of extra trains in to the core section of the route during morning rush hour to boost capacity:

"It seems that the ELL now features two extra Surrey Quays – Dalston Junction services at 0804 and 0849 respectively, which don’t appear on the official timetable."

With thanks to BarCar on the South East London forum.

52 comments:

Fattyfattybumbum said...

Great news, only fear is that Canada Water at rush hour will be even more congested.

Anonymous said...

Fantastic news - finally linking up the South East with more decent parts of London that they can aspire to.

This news always neglects to mention the Northern Line interchange at Clapham High St via Clapham North! Perhaps they'd consider it to be a "schlep" but it's basically a case of crossing the road.

Local Estate Agent said...

And good to see the Surrey Canal Rd station reinstated on the map. Renewal, the developer, plan to commence the scheme in 2013, and it could open in 2015, subject to budget cuts, wind direction etc.

Brockley Nick said...

@Anon - not mentioned except by the map in the article that clearly indicates it, you mean? Hopeless trolling.

Anonymous said...

It would be great to get some more frequency on our bit of the line ... and (more importantly) some more frequency late at night - I always end up taking a london bridge train because they are more regular after 11pm or so ...

Anonymous said...

Nick - I was referring to previous maps to this effect. Knee-jerk response!

h said...

Anon, it's not just a case of 'crossing the road'. Its double the fare, having to pay for two separate journeys!

Mb said...

Crossrail should help, the whitechaple interchange will be much more significant for the ELL than Canada Water.

Anonymous said...

More frequent trains please!

Anonymous said...

h

Clapham High Street to Clapham North is an out of station interchange so only one single fare on Oyster.

Lou Baker said...

This is where the ELL will turn from being merely mediocre into a bad joke. The potential for delays is going to sky rocket and - no doubt - services will completely collapse on occasion. The lack of ambition and scale of duplicity will quickly become apparent.

THNick said...

*points at Lou's posts*
See Anon, that's what proper trolling is about.

mb said...

Lou, please you're in a hole with your prediction of the uslessness of the ELL. The Southern trains that roll through often have seats s now because people CHOOSE the ELL over it. It's a useful service and was good value for money. A brand new 7-car service on a dedicated line with 30tph frequencey would have been better.

Thats a service that was never proposed so a comparison is pointless, as is a comparison to hover boots.

Public transport in Brockley is better now for most than it was before it was built. Only a few voices say otherwise, sometimes the minority voice really is wrong.



Anonymous said...

I believe the Post Office sorting office is to be knocked down and a Hover Boot factory erected - MB, once more you're ahead of the game!

Lou Baker said...

@mb

I'm not in a hole at all.

Predictions are that the ELL will be full in rush hour by 2016. It's only been running a few years. A scheme that reaches capacity in 8 years is a bad scheme and bad value for money.

The deficiency with the ELL are all down to the fact that no one was prepared to either make really difficult political decisions nor put up the money to do it properly.

And so, I confidently predict - again - that we'll lose all our London Bridge trains within a decade because that'll be the only way to make this Frankenstein railway work.

Mb said...

I'll store that one away. "All" including the lengthened southern services were getting?

You may be correct, I suspect you're wrong.

Anonymous said...

Any news on how this impacts frequency of the trains to Brockley? Does the Clapham service replace any Crystal Palace or West Croydon trains?

Anonymous said...

Honest travelcard holders will only have to pay one honest fare for interchanging at Clapham

It also finally links up Clapham Junction and the Northern Line Claphams in a way that's been badly needed for over a century.

Anonymous said...

Definitely a good development but does appear to impact a little on trains from Crofton Park - especially between 9-10am - perhaps because of capacity at Denmark Hill/Peckham Rye

Anonymous said...

Surely getting rid of the quiet Surrey Quays-New Cross branch will allow more trains on the congested stretch where they are sorely needed.

AliAliAfor said...

@ Lou

"It's only been running a few years. A scheme that reaches capacity in 8 years is a bad scheme and bad value for money."

Or you could say that the success of the line shows that this was an excellent way to spend a limited pot of money.

"The deficiency with the ELL are all down to the fact that no one was prepared to either make really difficult political decisions nor put up the money to do it properly."

That is a whole other argument about what can have been done with a blank cheque. The fact is that certain works were undertaken for a certain budget and as per the article, the majority benefitted.

Its time to move on Lou.

Malpas Simon said...

Am I the only person stupid enough to think that this new extension was going to stop at Brixton?! Was very excited but now bitterly dissapointed, as my route to Vauxhall seems to involve three seperate trains however i try and do it. It's 5 miles and takes 40 minutes! Any suggestions?

Anonymous said...

Clapham High St/North is basically Brixton. It's like stopping in Ladywell rather than Brockley - both two sides of the same coin.

Due to "schlep" criticisers it won't say something like "Alight here for Brixton!" but that's basically what you can do.

Bit of a schlep said...

It's a 10-15 minute walk from Clapham North to Brixton so not that far but not great added to a commute twice a day - especially if it's raining!

Anonymous said...

@ Malpas Simon

You can take the brockley to Victoria service as far as Clapham junction, changing there for a train to vauxhall. It'll take a few minutes more but involves fewer changes.
You could go nunhead-Victoria by train, then Victoria to vauxhall by tube. If you can be bothered to walk to nunhead that is

Anonymous said...

Nunhead being one of the six Brockley stations.

Malpas Simon said...

hmmm...walking...? Nevertheless, Nunhead is the only thing I haven't tried yet, maybe now is the time! Thnaks.

Anonymous said...

Ladywell: The REAL Brockley Station
St Johns: Alight here for the Upper Brockley Road market
Crofton Park: Alight here for Top Chef
Lewisham: Ideal for a late train home
Brockley: Alight here for dishonest fare
Nunhead: ???

Anonymous said...

It's getting easier to use public transport to get to the local football team down at the den this is great news.As for the links with Victoria there used to be a brockley lane station over the present station that linked brockley to there perhaps they should open that up again.

Anonymous said...

Nunhead: Come here for yummy mummies

Anonymous said...

Anonymous @ 13:50 What are you on about? Clapham high street/Clapham North is right at the heart of high street. After Clapham Common station, it’s the nearest station to all the shops, restaurants and bars.

Anonymous said...

I wasn't disputing that, just that it's a piece of piss to get to Brixton from there too. "Schleppers" can get the optional tube from Stockwell but everyone else walks.

Anonymous said...

So, here's a question. Would it be quicker to get the 436 to Camberwell Green or the ELL from Brockley to Denmark Hill?

Lep Recorn said...

Malpas Simon - on yer bike.

30 min to Vauxhall and a work out as well.

Anonymous said...

Walk to Queens road and jump on ELL there.

Malpas Simon said...

Where are you walking from? If you're near a 436 stop definitely the 436 i reckon.

Lou Baker said...

The lack of a Brixton interchange is one of the key deficiencies in the scheme. Likewise the lack of new platforms at Loughborough Junction. As is the failure to provide a full dedicated ELL2 platform at Clapham Junction. The scheme is basically a mess.

I am shocked MB thinks otherwise.

Any railway person will tell you 'metro' services are best run point to point along one line. Add in branches you increase the risk of delay. Share any of those branches with other services that risk increases further.

The ELL now has 4 branches which connects and interacts with numerous other lines.

The Circle Line is the most unreliable line precisely because it not only suffers its own delays but is impacted by delays on the District, Metropolitan and Hamersmith and City lines. ELL is built in the same way.

Stop Editorialisation said...

Come off it Lou, if it went to Brixton you'd just say it was taking people to a shithole.

Lou Baker said...

@stop

It's a shithole with a decent tube connection. Unlike most of the other shitholes on the line.

Tamsin said...

Nunhead has lovely views from its platforms when you are waiting for a train and quite a bit of work has been put into its entrance.

And a useful link when I first used to commute into Holborn Viaduct (that dates it!) and later to Bromley via Shortlands.

HOB said...

To date it even more, when we first lived in the area there were a grand total of 3 trains an hour from FHill, HOP, Brockley to Charing X- last train home 23:30, after which Night Bus or lump it.

Tamsin said...

Evening and weekend Charing Cross service... <>

Tamsin said...

Meant to add a Homer Simpson style drool to that last post but failed in the choice of indicators.

Mb said...

Pleas stop Lou, for the love of god and your credibility. I'd love it to stop at Brixton, my house and a thousand other places. It would have cost more and taken longer. It delivered what it was supposed to deliver. We have a net win in transport from brockley. A crossrail type line would be EVEN better. Mainline sized trains every two minutes, that's costing £15bn. Do you see? Lack of vision, perhaps. Vision is fine, you need magic Lou beans to pay for it. Railway engineers don't have that stuffed behind the sofa, it comes from government. Should we cancel the northern line, Sub surface, and pic line, bakerloo lineupgrades? Believe me, they are well overdue.

Close your eyes and draw a line n a map of London, you will trace a useful tube line. There's a limited amount of money. Every railway ever built is a compromise of money, disruption and time. Connecting to anther line means that you are suddenly dumping more passengers n that section, can it cope? If not you will dump passengers on a full station. You can't do that. You shut the station. It happens at Victoria all the time hence it's being expanded.

Your arguments are getting increasingly desperate and deranged.

Anonymous said...

so is this the whole orbital open from 9th december?

Honest Mungo said...

I think so, yes. As you can go both from Clapham Junction and the cheap end currently. This is the last piece.

Anonymous said...

I happen to think it might be useful.

Lou Baker said...

Wooaah. Calm down MB. Have a hob nob, a cuppa and chillax a bit.

We're always told why things can't be done. Actually they can be done - we just don't do them in this country.

The Chinese don't whine about can't. Nor do the French. They get on and do.

So yes - we can build a station at Brixton - we just choose to spend the £40m on no-hopers who waste it on booze and fags. We could properly fix Clapham Junction - but we don't.

The whole point of an orbital railway is that it should help take capacity out of the centre. But if it doesn't properly connect with other lines it fails to do that. That is and always has been a flaw in this project. But no one in the business can drag themselves away from their tea breaks for long enough to admit it.

Mb said...

Thing is, I do this for a living. I know, you don't.

Not really addressed the argument, which vital upgrades shall we drop to carry out your plan? Have you compared the relative benefits of them? Given that TfL is limited by a budget what shall we do? China, Germany and France also compromise. It's what grow ups do. We could do all of them, there is no money....how many times shall I say that? Do you think the Atkins, Balfour Beaty, Costains, Bombardier of this world will do it for free? Actually, why stop at Brixton? Why not go further?

Your argument has unraveled, hence the silliness about "booze and fags".

I win.

Anonymous said...

The French build fine intercity raillines at great expense with new straight tracks, but neglect their urban networks which are shabby and neglected. Gare du Nord is an embarassment compared to St Pancras.

Their cosseted national rail company is bastion of job protection and often paralysed by strikes.

The Chinese do what they are told and asking awkward questions is discouraged. All the trains will run on time and there will be no cockups or accidents. You had better believe it.

The only lesson we can take from these countries is political will can release a large chunk of money to spend on prestige infrastructure projects.

Sadly, the UK political process is not good at making such large decisions.

I predict many years of wrangling over airports and high speed rail lines.

However, smaller scale developments like the Overground do make a considerable difference. It has opened up suburban London and made it far less centralised.

Brockley has benefited considerably and so too will the stations touched by this extension.

It is a general truth with respect to networks that you can never really be sure how the traffic will flow once a change is put in place.

Anonymous said...

"Their cosseted national rail company is bastion of job protection and often paralysed by strikes."

Sounds horrible...

iffatali said...

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