Crofton Park - the breakaway state

Oliver Rose: I think you owe me a solid reason. I worked my ass off for you and the kids to have a nice life and you owe me a reason that makes sense. I want to hear it. 
Barbara Rose: Because. When I watch you eat. When I see you asleep. When I look at you lately, I just want to smash your face in. 
- The War of the Roses

Is the break-up of the Union inevitable? Are we better off together, stronger together and safer together? Does central Brockley really have more in common with the Nordic states of Surrey Docks, Rotherhithe and Bermondsey than it does with the shires of Crofton Park? These are the most important questions in the 300 year history of Greater Brockley.

Brockley Kate sent us the latest proposed Parliamentary constituency boundary for "Deptford and Rotherhithe" (above), which would sever Brockley ward's historic ties to Crofton Park and create an 'Arc of Prosperity' to the north.

As she notes, although it's unlikely to change the political map much (this new constituency would almost certainly be a Labour stronghold) it would have profound symbolic significance, connecting us much more with inner London. areas with a more extreme social mix of poor estates and rich areas dominated by loft-conversions and new-build apartments. It would also acknowledge the importance of the river to the area's development.

She says:

All in all, this would be a massive vivisection of Lewisham I'd suggest. Shifting 'central' Brockley, St Johns & Telegraph Hill towards central London, but retiring Crofton Park to the outer zone. Radical.

39 comments:

come the revolution said...

I think it's a good idea, because I've always wanted to live in a constituency shaped like a puppy standing on its hind legs.

Anonymous said...

well, let's be honest, brockley is in zone 2 and crofton park zone 3, so it makes sense for the latter to buddy up with the likes of its southern zone 3 neighbours and for brockley to partner with its zone 2 new cross, bermondsey compadres.

Pete said...

I lived in Surrey Quays for 7 years and it has almost nothing in common with Brockley and Ladywell. People here are MUCH more friendly for a start.

Brockley misanthrope said...

No we're not. Idiot

Anonymous said...

Bad idea. Very different areas. With different problems and issues.

david said...

Does it matter? It's not likely to change any election result given the margins involved. Surely, the only thing that matters is where people go. Just because the constituency border's changed doesn't mean people are more likely to go to Tesco in Surrey Quays than Budgens in Brockley/Crofton Park.

From a purely historical point of view, Crofton Park is the centrer of Brockley, it's the name of a station not an area.

hazeladams said...

Oh No! I miss out on Brockley by one street according to this. Grr.

Anonymous said...

Ward boundaries are often scoffed at, yet parliamentary boundaries are taken as proof of something - I suppose whatever suits your agenda...

Ben H said...

Yes, soon we, Greater Brockley, will "liberate" our brothers in the Sudetenland.

Expect fierce resistance from Comrade Jay of Budgens. Irregulars from the Westside have already been spotted burning villages.

Michael_FH said...

The return of Crofton Park to their brothers and sisters in Forest Hill will be a historic reunification of the SE23 postcode and different sides of the road along the South Circular.

The combining of Grove Park and Greater SE23 into a single "South Lewisham" constituency makes little sense in terms of communities.

I assume that combining South Bermondsey with Lewisham is designed to ensure Simon Hughes is left without a seat when the music stops.

Brockley Nick said...

"Does it matter? It's not likely to change any election result given the margins involved. Surely, the only thing that matters is where people go."

Yes, agree. Only two caveats. 1. It matters if you think the resulting MP will be focused on issues that aren't particularly relevant to Brockley. 2. It has (like ward boundaries) some symbolic significance and influence over where people think they live. Nothing more.

"From a purely historical point of view, Crofton Park is the centrer of Brockley, it's the name of a station not an area."

Yes.

@Anon

"Ward boundaries are often scoffed at, yet parliamentary boundaries are taken as proof of something - I suppose whatever suits your agenda..."

Were the quote, video and references to an arc of prosperity not enough scoffing for you?

Crofton Popular Front said...

I am all for this as long as we can set up adequate border controls.

We keep Mr Lawrences - the original and still the best - and dine on cheese and wine. We keep Jay, Babur, La Querca, the Butcher and we will align with our Nunhead neihbours to ensure exclusive use of the fishmonger.

you can keep New Brockley and the midtown ghost town. you will become a natural buffer between us and the development creep from deptford and surrey quays. a last line of defence to keep the real Brockley safe from Tesco.

although sometimes i may like to pop in to Sids.

david said...

Hi Nick. Agree totally with your point about the MP's focus. That is important.

In terms of people identifying with where they live, surely the strongest factor in that is postcode? It's most likely to be how they found their home to rent or buy through a property search engine (assuming they're moving into the area).

The sense of what is local in terms of resources and facilities is surely defined by proximity and ease of reaching not the political borders? (And Brockley Central's promotion thereof, obviously).

Ps - great to see some Lee and Herring on here too!

Brockley Nick said...

@Hazel - actually, you miss out on Deptford and Rotherhithe by one street ;)

Mb said...

The postcode thing is interesting, you may be right. Originally devised to make the sorting and delivery of mail more efficient but may have skewed things when used to search for property in an unfamiliar area? Similar to the outrage whern the old London 01 dialling code was split to free up numbers, reinforced the 'outer' and 'inner' london argument. should be meaningless but may not be in reality.

We keep Brockley Market which is the only important issue.

Tobi Jenkins said...

So is Telegraph Hill not Brockley? I and others I know who live in Telegraph Hill always refer to it as Brockley. Esp as my flat is a 5 minute walk to Brockley station.

Anonymous said...

Yeah stay out of Brockley, you New Cross scum.

pip said...

Excuse my ignorance, but does this mean an entirely new Borough Council being created (the Rotherhithe and Deptford BC named on the picture)?

It will be slightly odd not to be part of Lewisham any more, but I think I'll get over it. I quite like the idea of being part of a more central borough.

Brockley Nick said...

No, this is about your local MP, not the Council. Nothing will change to Lewisham borough.

pip said...

Ok, thanks. I'm even more ignorant than I thought. I assumed that borough councils covered particular constituencies.

Unchnaged boundary for now said...

But all this isn't going to happen. Nick Clegg said so.

AAA said...

Personally I am a Crofton Park Unionist - I believe we are stronger together.

As for the Mr-Lawrencian question, the free trade of goods within the Brockley Economic Community more than makes up for any cross border tax raising and spend anomalies.

Anonymous said...

@ Nick can we see the current boundaries for comparison please.

And if you have the old one from when Brockley was part of Kent that would be interesting also.

Thanks

Anonymous said...

Was going to voice support for the Crofton popular front but on closer inspection of the map, I don't know if I'm part of the resistance or in ladywell...

Ah heck, I'll go for it:

Le querce sh*ts all over villa Toscana!

Popular Front of Crofton said...

While I agree the break away of Crofton Park from its dictatorial overlord of Brockley is a good thing. I find myself at odds with Crofton Popular Front. Wanting to nip to Sids is exactly the sort of splitter nonsense we don't need. We can't dilute the great aims of the cause.

Tamsin said...

Telegraph Hill is Telegraph Hill!

The worrying thing about our MPs' "focus" is that Lewisham currently has two whole MPs and one half one (we share Jim Dowd with neighbours to the west) - under the new set up we have only only one MP to call our own and two (or it may be three) part ones. A problem when calling on their limited time for borough events - or looking to their limited resources to deal with borough issues.

CP separatist said...

We can always have things shipped over the boarder by neutrals...delivery people from Smiles, for example. Meze Mangal presents more of a problem...

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous 17 Oct 2012

Ladywell is also in Zone 3 and it's further out than Crofton Park. So the new constituency might as well be (as you strangely put it) 'buddied up' with Crofton Park instead of Ladywell.

Anonymous said...

In any case all this is academic.

These boundary changes will not be voted through. The Liberal Democrats have promised not to support these proposals...

People's Front of Popular Crofton said...

I will put this through if you vote for me!!!

Not Vince cable. said...

The Lib Dems have a less than glorious record in sticking to previous statements. Even compared to the other two. No obvious philosophy or ideology, dislike the Tories but at least they stab you from the front. The Lib Dems raison d'ĂȘtre seems to be survival at all costs and screw any lib dem principles that a lib dem voter would recognise.

max said...

Really is that a difference? Do you really think that Labour of Tories don't say what's most likely to win them votes at election times but speak their minds only?

For me the greatest difference between the Lib Dems and both Tories and Labour is that the Lib Dems have an internal democracy and the policies are decided at Congress in a democratic manner. To be fair other parties also function this way too, Greens and Ukip for example.

The two main parties instead are top down organizations tightly controlled by the leadership where the yeaerly congress is a glorified pr and networking opportunity much like the congresses of Chinese Communist Party.

Anonymous said...

Tobi Jenkins,

Why do you tell people you live in Brockley if you Telelgraph Hill? Telegraph hill is much nicer than any part of brockley. Stop playing yourself down.

Certainly not Nick Clegg said...

Yes Max, to a point. but actually political parties also have an obligation to the electorate and people who don't poor over manifestos or don't wish to join a team. The lib dems seem to have changed colour as soon as they found themselves in government. The tory ideology of state=bad is not much of a surprise, some of the manouvering of the lib dems to save their skin is and actually I think their core party members will do something about it - so perhaps you're right longer term.

Anonymous said...

I don;t go near Telegraph Hill, that swivle eyed shouty bloke at number 43 tells me that you'll be scythed down by a dope smoking, unemployed, scrounging skateboarder...wearing sandles.

max said...

I certainly agree that the current leadership of the Lib Dem party is more to the right than roughly half of its traditional support base is comfortable with and this will eventually means something dramatic to happen there. Clegg has managed to go through the conference unchallenged but with a diminuished party and sitting on a ticking timebomb.

But going into coalition was bound to expose the fact that the party has always been open to ideas both on the left and the right of the centre and if actual legislation one way or the other on each individual policy hadn't happened the two sides would have kept on debating in a healthy manner without ever falling out of love.

Unfortunately the prevailing narrative is that Lib Dems are not made of the same stuff of Tories and Labours that with their strong will and clarity of beliefs provide right versus wrong model people can easily understand and support.

Honestly, it'd be great if people could see through an horreendously aligned press and get over the fact that the Tories did actually get the largest group in Parliament and in a democracy that means that they have the right to run the country, and Clegg only did the right thing by entering in the coalition. All these consequences the Lib Dems are paying electorally are not the price of duplicity, they're the price of their sticking to the rules of democracy.

Anonymous said...

Swivel eyed shouty bloke.... Is that Lou Baker's address then?

At least I'm not Gove said...

Yes, I agree that there was no credible alternative to going with the Tories. It was new ground for everyone and I don't think it's worked particularly well. The dismantling of many institutions undercover of the economic crisis has been radical and seems much more out of the Tory ideological playbook. The lib dems could force an election or slow things down more, that's not coming across. It looks like complicity, desperation and hanging onto power for powers sake. It would be painful but they could pul the plug and save credibility. The tory's or the biggest share but didn't win outright which doesn't reflect the radical nature of the current politics.

We need a better form of PR so that if coalitions become the norm they are structured better.

max said...

I really wouldn't describe this as a radical rightwing government. It's moderate rightwing government. And they're legitimized to be so, sorry I don't think that the electoral result gives them a mandate unless they do what they think is right.

BTW I used to support PR but I'm not so sure actually since this gives a lot more power to the central offices of the parties and away from constituencies. So if the two main parties look a bit like the Chinese Communist Party now wait until you give them the power to draw a list of people with guaranteed seat in Parliament.

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