The Catford Bridge Tavern threatened with closure

The Catford Bridge Tavern is under threat of closure. Since pub group Antic took over the pub earlier this year, the place has been transformed from one of the area's problem pubs in to one of Catford's best assets.

Now, the freeholders of the pub have submitted a planning application to turn the rooms above the pub in to flats (fine) and the pub itself in to retail (disaster).

There are a number of reasons why the Council should listen to the recommendations of its own Sustainable Development Committee and pull out all the stops to save the Catford Bridge Tavern.

Firstly, good local pubs improve the quality of life for residents - an important part of the mix for any successful community. Catford is famously short of pubs - its development having been influenced by the temperance movement - and this is arguably the best in the area. If the plan goes ahead, an important amenity will be lost.

Secondly, and ironically, this would damage local retail. Catford is not short of retail, it has a surfeit. The Council is struggling to make the retail centre a success and its only hope to do so is to marry the shops with a range of high-quality leisure options to attract and keep shoppers in the area. The loss of the area's best pub would be a major setback.

Thirdly, it would send a signal to pub freeholders across the borough that the Council does not value its pubs and will not protect others from further development. This is a chance to draw a line in the sand and support a company that has perhaps done more than any other to make Lewisham a better place to live.

This application is a text book illustration of the problems facing pubs in the area. The pub itself is now a success, but the freeholders have a strong incentive to let it close - the residential properties above the pub would be worth more with retail on the ground floor. Given that average house prices in Lewisham are nearly eight times the average salary, it would be no bad for thing for the borough if the flats were more affordable.

The Catford Bridge Tavern team believe their position is precarious and plan to mount a campaign to persuade the Council to help them. It goes without saying that their customers will support their petition, but anyone who cares about Lewisham's pubs should do the same.

The campaign will launch next week - we'll publish the details then.

92 comments:

Anonymous said...

"Transformed from one of the areas problem pubs" seems rather agenda-led. In what way was it a problem pub? No grissini?

Brockley Nick said...

A) read the link
B) don't distract attention from the issue

Duh! said...

Fights, drug dealing, intimidating, locals thought that, the police thought that. Of course some locals may love a stabby pub. It was a poor pub, it's now a great pub so enough of the trolling and the sad little attempt to portray this as some kind of class conflict. They don't want to turn it back into a shithole anyway, they want to turn it into retail so it's one if them moot points innit.

Save the pub, there really is no positives in it closing.

Anonymous said...

The Catford Bridge Tavern is amazing. There is no way we can allow it to shut! It's made Catford a much better place and is a beautiful old pub building.

I look forward to hearing about and joining in the pubs campaign.

Anonymous said...

Yes it was a problem pub

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Regular said...

Ahhh the good old days http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/9443283.Catford_Copperfield_pub_review_after_drug_and_stabbing_allegations/

As stated above, the proposal is to close what's there now. That's would be a bad thing. If you dont like it, well then it will make no difference so take your trolish behaviour elsewhere. You won't get your dangerous, unpleasant place back so change the record.

Save the CBT

MikeSE13 said...

When it was the Copperfield I went passed there numerous times and it smelt of weed. Blatantly smoking it on the street outside of the place. Its dodgy dealings inside left a lot to be desired. Now it sells a fantastic array of beers and is a welcome retreat in Catford. Hope it doesn't go.

barryls said...

Helluva noisy road to live on. The pub should stay, when they eventually develop the greyhound stadium site the local population will increase so the place could be packed out.

Anonymous said...

A well argued case Nick's PR skills are a good weapon. A relief when they are deployed on the right side.

Anonymous said...

Let's keep it positive. The Catford Bridge Tavern is a lovely pub in a beautiful old building. The staff are really friendly and the atmosphere is great. The food is excellent and it has a good range of beers.

Catford needs this pub.

Anonymous said...

The comments on this blog are regularly better than the content.

Disagree with post -> be labelled 'troll' -> have comments deleted.

Brockley Nick said...

"Disagree with post -> be labelled 'troll' -> have comments deleted."

It's OK to disagree with the content of the post. The comment in question did not actually do that - it insinuated some sort of hidden agenda and asked an incredibly ignorant question ("in what way was it a problem pub") that is easily answered by clicking on the link provided in the article.

If you disagree that it was a problem pub, please provide the counter argument (rather than an ad hominem attack on the author as a snob). Hard to argue that a pub that was closed down was not in some way a problem though... easier to ignore the facts and make a cheap dig.

Better still, rather than trying to pick an argument over one word in the article, why not engage with the actual issue, which is that this pub is in danger of being lost. If you think my arguments are wrong, please explain why this is good news.

Good argument is always welcomed. Dickishness is likely to get you labelled a troll.

Anonymous said...

Of course there's an agenda: to save a fantastic community resource that a lot of people have put a lot of effort into. Is that difficult to understand?

Captain Perspective said...

The 'problems' seemed to be the odd fight (which is something individuals, not pubs, do - very Green to absolve individuals of responsibility, society is at fault etc. etc.) - and the odd person having a piss outside (which, let's face it, we've all done when caught short, and is again another individualistic action).

Admiral Perspective said...

The blog was about the current pub being replaced by retail. If you are trying to change subject you are a troll.

Anonymous said...

..or at best a troll sympathiser - eh Captain?

Anonymous said...

Perhaps changing it into retail, a sainsburys or tesco, would actually appeal to people who live local to it, rather than a few people in Brockley who just think it might be a good idea - where were they when the green man closed?

Save the pub said...

Pubs can discourage or encourage behaviours, why is it that the current pub does not have that problem? Is still a pub? You're undermined your own argument. Yes, individuals cause crime, they cause crime writhing a societal framework we build. People are social animals, this why we have laws, norms, rules, and argue about acceptable behaviours.

The ld pub is gone, it's irrelevant how it compares to this one. We have supermarkets and other retail there. We don't have many decent pubs.

Now stop being an obtuse troll. There will be a massive stink to save the pub, there won't be a massive campaign to have another standard shop because at best it's not very interesting.

Ian on the Hill said...

May I sum up for the benefit of the hard of thinking?

Crappy, violent, crime-ridden pubs=bad for community

Friendly decent pubs = good for community.

Selling decent profitable pubs for a quick buck from redevelopment (especially for pointless retail or unaffordable housing) = bad for community.

Is that sufficiently simple for the pissing in the street guy?

Anonymous said...

Sounds as if Antic have got caught short on this one.

Why choose to invest in a pub and spend all that money without a firm lease or possession of the freehold?

That is making a mistake in business.

The consequences for the local community will be the loss of nice pub, but I do not think that cuts much ice with the freeholders.

Who are they, anyway?

Anonymous said...

Punch Taverns?

Al said...

@Anonymous 13.16. I do live near the pub and use it regularly. I didn't live here when the Green Man closed but I would have probably opposed that too as I feel any pub closing is a bad thing. Hope this helps.

Anonymous said...

The development can't go ahead unless the council approve the application. The freeholder might be indifferent about the needs of the community but the council can't be so dismissive. Given the significant investment Antic have made in Lewisham in recent years, and they could reasonably expect the council support.

Anonymous said...

Also, there is already a supermarket about 3 doors down from the CBT and a big Tesco in the shopping centre. I can't see many local people wanting another one.

Anonymous said...

A campaign to challenge the loss of the Catford Bridge Tavern should take place on two fronts.
One to build public support for retaining the amenity and the other to confront the owners proposal through the Planning process. Getting professional advice from a planning consultant would be campaign money well spent.

Anonymous said...

http://www.antic-ltd.com

Catford Bridge Tavern said...

Richard, manager of Catford Bridge Tavern here. Thank you to Nick for highlighting this and thank you to commenters for the support.

I'll write in more detail soon. Our website will soon give details of how to help oppose the freeholder's plans.

Catford Bridge Tavern said...

In more detail - the building owner has made an application (http://acolnet.lewisham.gov.uk/LEWIS-XSLPagesDC/acolnetcgi.exe?ACTION=UNWRAP&RIPNAME=Root.PgeResultDetail&TheSystemkey=67504) to convert the top 2 floors into 5 self-contained flats and the basement into 'retail storage'. Although the application isn't for a retail store on the ground floor the 'Design and Application' information makes it clear this is the future intention and that a national retailer is looking to rent or buy.

Antic have a tenancy at will with Punch Taverns, who in turn have a lease with the owner. This means our tenancy can be ended at any point; and we know Punch Taverns would be glad to wash their hands of an expensive lease they signed before the recession.

So, in short, the owner wants a supermarket and not a pub, either to earn higher rent or to increase the property's value for sale.

As Nick and others have explained brilliantly there are several reasons this shouldn't be allowed for the good of Catford and the preservation of pubs and pub history (family history - my head was wet in the pub in the 80s). Most importantly, Catford Bridge Tavern has quickly become an important (and probably Catford's largest) social hub. Secondly, Catford has a surplus of retail, including a large Tesco (with plans for expansion) and a number of independent retailers who would suffer as a result of this application. There are also plenty of alternative sites for any additional retailers wishing to open. Thirdly, Catford (and Lewisham as a whole) has a small number of pubs - 50% less than at their peak - and they are closing at an increasing rate. Fourthly, any flats above the property would suffer noise disturbance from the main road and railway line. I think these are reason enough to preserve the building as a pub, but in any case I'll address the troll-ish comments in case they're genuine and worth persuading...

Catford Bridge Tavern said...

...Continued...


Captain Perspective - your powers don't seem to include detail or research. The previous tenant of the pub (not that they bear relevance to this application) failed to control confirmed incidences of violence and late night disturbances inside and outside his pub (including intimidation of passers-by), the noise levels from his pub, drug dealing and taking inside the pub, and failed to respond to council and police notices/meetings about the problems. He then decided of his own will to abandon the pub and his lease with an upcoming license review. A license review we attended instead and, with our strong record in the borough, persuaded the council and police we would turn the pub into something positive for the area (both will tell you this has proved to be true). Without our involvement it is unlikely the pub would have remained a pub. 'Save the pub' - you succinctly made this point.

Anon 1316 - the people who live locally have already voiced their opposition to the plans and I'm sure our petition will show this to be true. In order to be certain we'll be knocking on doors.

Anon 1357 - fair point, but without the risk on our point the pub would probably already be well on the way to redevlopment. It was a risk we took, I hope you can see for good reason - the pub is thriving. Our risk shouldn't influence the decision of a planning committee, your support for our opposition, or the fight to preserve pubs.

This morning we have met two councillors and had very encouraging advice. We have also already had incredible support from customers, twitter followers (@catfordtavern), Catford shopkeepers, local press, BC commenters and MP Heidi Alexander.

However, we won't be complacent, the fight is there to be fought and well worth fighting, whether for the future of Catford, the future of pubs or, selfishly, the interests of Antic Ltd. If you would like to help the first thing to do is to register your opposition to the planning application by emailing planning@lewisham.gov.uk, quoting DC/12/81142/X and giving your name and address. You can also sign our petition at the bar, or soon online. Lastly, you can write to various people such as Heidi Alexander. Details of how all of this can be done and the strongest points to make in opposition to the plans will be on our website (www.catfordbridgetavern.com) asap next week.

Thanks in advance for all support.

giantcatbear99 said...

I've just had to look up 'grissini', that's how posh I am. I used to walk past the Copperfield every day and think it was such a shame it was such a nasty looking pub, as the building was great. When CBT came along it was as though all my dreams had come true. There aren't that many pubs round here and most of them are terrible. Don't begrudge people who want a safe - and yes - respectable place to socialise. The CBT welcomes everyone, and has the potential to become a real community hub. It would be dreadful to lose it so soon. There is a large Tesco half a mile away, and two more Tesco Metros between Catford and Lewisham. There are a tonne of pound shops, Aldis, Lidls, etc. etc. None of these shops make any effort to engender community spirit, whereas the CBT has worked very hard at doing just that since its been open.

Anonymous said...

Who are Technostar Ltd care of DVS Property Ltd?

Anonymous said...

With the thread on the shortage of housing in mind....

Is the conversion of the upper floors will only happen if the pub becomes a retail unit a sign of consideration for the flat dwellers or an attempt to put pressure on the council?

D said...

Is there a compromise? Develop the upper floors but leave the ground floor and basement for the pub? I realise flats above a pub would be less desirable than ones above retail but they would surely still make the landlord some money and if it were that or nothing...

Catford Bridge Tavern said...

Anons 0319, 0757 and 1358, there is a shortage of flats and their application makes this point, but 5 flats are a drop in the ocean. And the centre of Catford is a retail zone and not somewhere the council is looking for more flats.

The 'compromise' of flats above the pub is essentially what has been applied for at the moment - in the knowledge pubs that have flats built above usually go on to close down soon after. This is because the pub's trade becomes restricted to accomodate the new tenants (no smoking outside, reduced opening hours, etc). So, this compromise is exactly what will lead the way to the pub's closure, and the Design and Access statement with the application makes this much clear - it states the ground floor is planned to be a retail unit, a national retailer is interested, and the application for flats should be considered with this in mind, rather than as an application for flats above a pub.

Technostar/DVS are just a Middlesex-based property/development company.

oryx said...

Noooooo! We haven't even been there yet!

If the threat is real, as well as losing what is by all accounts a good pub, there are quite a few small food shops on that stretch between the Broadway and the stations which would suffer if the likes of a Tesco Metro got in.

Anonymous said...

CBT is right, a few flats will do little to solving the housing shortage. Town centres are much more.vibrant places with pubs and none will be built to replace the ones lost.

Catford Bridge Tavern said...

Anon 1551, exactly, pubs can't be replaced once they're gone. As Nick says Catford isn't blessed with pubs, I think Rushey Green has 4, only 2 of which are original pub buildings, and The Ram will be taken out for at least a year or two whilst the town centre is redeveloped.

Catford Bridge Tavern's building is 92 years old and a pub has stood on the site for 140 years.

Anonymous said...

Brockley Cross is a good example, the Maypole should never have been demolished.

Tony F said...

I've lived in the borough for around 12 years now, I came here originally to run the Wetherspoons on Rushey Green. In my time here, Ive seen 3 pubs closed and demolished,The Green Man, Tigers Head and The George, 2 pubs have a change of business, The Placewell Tavern (just under the railway bridge close to Stansted Rd) and The Plough & Harrow and one left to stand empty, The Rising Sun. I drank in The Copperfield in the early 80s and it was a great pub, when I moved to Catford, it was ok, but in recent years I steered well clear of the place due to it's reputation. Since Antic took over, I've been a regular customer, great beer, great food and attentive staff, to close it now would be a great loss to the community.

Catford Bridge Tavern said...

Tony F, glad you like the pub and use it, please do sign the petition.

Anonymous said...

Maybe we should all just pause and think of the rates of alcoholism - we probably all know someone who's been affected by alcohol-related problems - this statement will probably attract all kind of sneers but it is very true.

Public houses, whether 'gastro' or traditional, are all part of the system that encourages alcohol abuse - and make it socially acceptable.

If you think you're one of the people who might never have the need to seek help from the effects of alcohol, think again, and carry on drinking.

Mb said...

Thanks for the sermon. I'll choose what to put in my body, thanks.

Tony F said...

CBT, signed it this afternoon when I was in, email also sent to Lewisham Council planning.

Errosion said...

Closing this would be a horrible idea. It's a quality pub in an area with few. We've got the Turkish supermarket along that strech already, along with littler shops, plus Tesco in the centre...why would we need a rubbish Tesco Express or the like? The Turkish supermarket has all the basics plus extra - great, cheap olives, fresh bread,staples, a wide selection of fruit and veg...and we've got the pleasant, cared-for pub...and it would be a horrible place to live: in a flat, along there. The money-grabbers need to think about the effects of what they're doing...

Anonymous said...

I need some new staples, sounds like that Turkish supermarket is the place for me

giantcatbear99 said...

I can't think of a place less likely to encourage alcoholism than The CBT. It's about as far removed from the idea of a town centre 'vertical drinking factory' as you could possibly imagine (go to Croydon and see what I mean). It's thanks to the temperance movement that Catford didn't have that many pubs to be decimates by greedy developers in the first place! And it's no good turning everything into flats if there are no safe shared community spaces. That's how society becomes atomised.

max said...

I entirely support what giantcatbear99 said, in fact if you want to help people drink themselves stupid give them a local supermarket, the one that recently opened near me has its windows stacked of offers of cheap booze for the local alcoholic crowd.
In fact I may write an objection to a local supermarket at the CBT site on that ground.

Anonymous said...

Indeed, if the pub is replaced with a supermarket, it will almost certainly be selling a range of premium lagers with very high alcohol content a prices much cheaper than pub beer.

anonymous said...

I think the plan to build flats above a retail unit, to make them more desirable to homebuyers, is one doomed to failure in itself.

I recently tried to sell a flat I own above a small grocery shop. I had 4 offers but nobody could get a mortgage approval from banks/building societies.

The reason given was that 'resale would be difficult due to being above a shop'. (This was despite having numerous offers from people who loved the flat!) The only way the banks would have leant the money would have been for a 40% deposit, or above, or a cash purchase.

So, it could be worth arguing in your case, that the flats are likely to sit empty (especially due to their proximity to the main road).

What a ridiculous plan!

Anonymous said...

Anyone thought that there might be higher being (or planning officer) with a sense of humour at work here?

One arm of Antic is trying to build a supermarket where it isn't needed or wanted in Crofton Park while the other arm of Antic is being kicked out of where it is by another developer trying to install a supermarket where it is not needed or wanted.

just saying.

Anonymous said...

Antic certainly know how to manipulate the 'local media'

@HighStreetBen said...

Terrible proposal.. areas and High Streets without pubs are usually areas in decline. See http://www.deadpubssociety.org.uk/index.php/List for a sad record. In east end where Ive been working the High St has lost 9 pubs and now only has 2 left! V keen to help you fight this

Erosion said...

I didn't know that Antic were responsible for the threatened Crofton Park Tesco; is that what you're saying, anon?

Anonymous said...

Something of interest which has been happening to the Forest Hill Hotel, a pub which I always believed had great potential on Stanstead Road:

http://acolnet.lewisham.gov.uk/LEWIS-XSLPagesDC/acolnetcgi.exe?ACTION=UNWRAP&RIPNAME=Root.PgeDocs&TheSystemkey=61181

Granted: Converting upper floors to flats with Pub on Ground Floor

http://acolnet.lewisham.gov.uk/LEWIS-XSLPagesDC/acolnetcgi.exe?ACTION=UNWRAP&RIPNAME=Root.PgeResultDetail&TheSystemkey=63088

Granted: Converting upper floors to flats with Pub on Ground Floor

http://acolnet.lewisham.gov.uk/LEWIS-XSLPagesDC/acolnetcgi.exe?ACTION=UNWRAP&RIPNAME=Root.PgeResultDetail&TheSystemkey=65621

Refused: Converting everything into flats

I see Antics name popping up


Anonymous said...

note the address of the applicant in the latter 2

Anonymous said...

Erosion @11.02
as i understand it - yes, a separate development arm of Antic are behind the Crofton Park Tesco. However i admit to dipping in and out of this site every now and again - things may have changed or i may be wrong.

Westsider said...

I think that's a rumour that's been debunked on here before. Besides, while you might not like the Crofton Park application, the two things are very different. In the Crofton Park case, it's a question of what gets added (possibly a supermarket). In this case, it's what gets taken away - one of the few remaining pubs in Catford.

Please let's focus on the issue. Even if you don't like Antic pubs, you should support their fight to keep a pub open. Pubs can change owners, but once one's lost to retail, it's never coming back.

Anonymous said...

The parallels between the Forest Hill Hotel and this CBT example are interesting.

Antic did to the Forest Hill Hotel what another developer wants to do to the CBT. It is definitely double standards from Antic.

However, the CBT is amazing and must be kept for the good of Catford.

Anonymous said...

@Anon 10:19. They certainly do.

It has mainly involved: turning The Alpha Club into Jam Circus; turning The Paradise Bar into The Royal Albert; turning The Coach & Horses into The Ravensbourne Arms; and turning The Copperfield into The Catford Bridge Tavern.

The 'local media' doesn't come cheap.

Pub said...

The common thread is turning failing or failed pubs into sucessful ones. Stop withy the tin hat conspiracy.

Catford Bridge Tavern said...

Anon 18:58 I see the point you make, but responsible pubs don't encourage alcoholism any more than bakeries encourage obesity. Sadly, alcoholics drink in pubs, but then they also drink at home, in bars, at theatres, on flights, and so on. If we want to reduce the rate of alchoholism without resorting to prohibition then we need to encourage the responsible selling of alcohol, something I think we do. NB I really don't like the term 'gastro' for pubs that simply sell food and aren't cheap - I think we are more 'traditional' than many pubs that spring to mind.

Anon 0958 the site in Crofton Park was owned by the same person who owns CBT, I don't know if it still is, especially since that company went into administration. There's a debate to be had about a Tesco there (personally I'd hope not), but as Westsider said this is a different issue - the loss of pubs, especially ones that are perfectly viable businesses.

Anon1019 - I, the manager, of CBT, write on here, as well as Twitter, etc. I don't see how Antic manipulates the media. But in order to keep CBT open I want people aware of the situation. Anon 1242 thanks for your reply to this.

Anons 1115 and 1157, I don't know the situation in Forest Hill but do know we had an involvement at one point. The owner is first and foremost a (successful) pub operator, so I presume he got involved in order to open a pub. If a viable pub could be operated on that site I'm sure he would do so. Beyond that, I don't know about the planning applications or why they went in - it does look as if Antic's owner applied for the planning you linked. For my part, that pub is in a poor location; pubs on residential streets rarely work in modern times (Dog and Bell, Deptford being a rare example) - the contrast with CBT is we are in a prime location and demonstrably, well-used, successful and a busy community hub.

Anonymous said...

I can see a reason for having flats above pubs.

Don't many pubs have 'live in' arrangements where the staff live on the premises?

Anonymous said...

I'd like to know a bit more about the owner of the CBT. I guess the identity is hidden behind various property management agents.

Who is it? A pension fund, a sovereign wealth fund, something like that?

Catford Bridge Tavern said...

Re: previous two anons, pubs do have live-in arrangements, but they tend to be rooms rather than flats and linked to employment. Self-contained flats for sale and pubs aren't such happy neighbours. That said, it's possible a compromise could be found whereby the landlord rents the flats and pub separately without plans for a supermarket.

Do you mean the owner of the CBT business, or of the pub freehold? The business is owned by Antic Ltd, the freehold is owned by a company called Technostar Property Ltd c/o DPS Property Ltd

Anonymous said...

The property owner, the freeholder. Presumably these company names are agents of some kind representing some big property investor. I am curious to know who that might be. A disinterested foreign company or maybe a UK institutional investor, with who might be open to influence.



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Anonymous said...

Hello. Non grissini eating central Catford local here. Not only do I think the loss of The Catford Tavern (which I can confirm is a far less intimidating pub for a lone woman to visit than The Copperfield ever was) would be hugely detrimental to our community, but there's another aspect of the proposed development that people haven't touched on here. Can't say I'm thrilled at the prospect of delivery vehicles (whether supermarket lorries or builders lorries) reversing in and out of the site. It's hard enough to cross the road to Catford Bridge Station without getting killed without this being thrown into the mix. As a local I can also confirm many of us don't want yet another sodding supermarket. We're falling over them as it is.

Mb said...

Has anyone eaten or even seen a grissini since 1982?

Anyway, 116 objections received to date and close to 1000 signatures. Proper objections carry more weight, you can email them. You know what to do.

Anonymous said...

And before some smart alec says it... the heavy goods traffic associated with pub deliveries is nothing like that of supermarkets.

Anonymous said...

I don't eat grissini either. The dietician I pay tells me I'm gluten intolerant

cask.master said...

Sitting in the pub as I write this. What a terrific asset for the local community. Friendly, secure feeling, great food & wide range of drinks to suit all tastes. Should be allowed to stay, but can guarantee greedy councilors will take the Tesco offer. Support your local traders if you can, you will be sorry later if you don't.

kolp said...

Just found this online clearly it's satirical (not to be offensive) and it's from 2004 but the planners might want to take into account recent historical perceptions of Catford.

kolp said...

that should read (not to *mention offensive)

Anonymous said...

@Kolp - it's conventional to provide the link to what you're referring to, so that other people can enjoy your input

Anonymous said...

Cambridge leading the way....Lewisham to follow?

http://www.cambridge.gov.uk/ccm/content/planning-and-building-control/planning-policy/supplementary-planning-documents-and-guidance/protection-of-public-houses.en

Anonymous said...

That looks like a very sensible policy by Cambridge council. Feels like something that should be nationwide.

kolp said...

Ha!

http://www.chavtowns.co.uk/2004/09/catford-arse-end-of-south-london/

Anonymous said...

That was from 2004.

Has the place improved or slid steadily down hill since then?

I guess a fair few pubs have shut down in that time.

Tamsin said...

It's improved. Even a couple of elderly ladies were speaking of its possible closure with regret in my office the other day.

Matt G said...

I have just returned from holiday to this news today and am simply horrified at the possible loss of the CBT. I have lived in Catford for 3 years now and am certain it is the best thing that has happened to the area in that time, and most probably for many years before that. Let's hope sense prevails at the council - it is afterall their local as well!

Anonymous 11 October 2012 20:29 makes a good point re access. The site is entirely unsuitable for HGVs, being cited as it is next to a bus stop and between the busy south circular and the station drop off area.

I will be stopping by the CBT asap to see whether I can help - protest march to the council's offices anyone??

Anonymous said...

why invest time in a place where you don't own the freehold? always precarious. money talks, bullshit walks as antic well know. if the freeholder will profit greater from a sell off, that is what they will do.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, because it's so simple if you see an opportunity to do something you love or think won't bankrupt you to size up a premises & just grab the freehold... Get real.

Anonymous said...

antic is a chain, that own about 20 pubs, they are in a powerful financial position. you're not talking about someone who just wanted to set up a pub on their own. get your facts straight.

bag of **** snakes said...

As a follower of the turf I would welcome more bookmakers in the area - I've been banned from *** several of them because I suffer from an *** aggressive form of Tourettes - so please think about *** me from time to **** time.

fabhat said...

Richard from CBT has had to return the keys this morning...so it is now shut - although hopefully it can be resolved...

Anonymous said...

@fabhat - seriously?! How did that happen so quickly!

Outrageous.

Anonymous said...

Nick, fabhat's info is definitely worthy of an article. This is a huge twist in that saga.

This should be publicised to the area - should cause extra outrage!

Fabhat said...

Richard from the CBT tweeted it last night - it was all pretty sudden. Think Kate from the SLP is othe case about it as well. It is a crying shame, and must be utterly gutting for Richard - who worked ridiculously hard to turn it around. So frustrating for them - and customers!

Anonymous said...

I guess there is a hard lesson there and it is part of a trend.

http://londonist.com/2012/10/plans-to-turn-catford-bridge-tavern-into-a-supermarket.php

Looks like the property companies that own the freeholds are rather keener to sell the freehold to a supermarket than lease it to a publican.

Sounds as if the lease afforded very little protection.

Anonymous said...

But SE23.com suggests there is hope."Looking like they may be able to re-negotiate the lease with new owners:" and the Antic FB page says "Catford Bridge Tavern will be closed for a few days while we change over the lease, but normal service will be resumed asap."

M said...

Apparently the building has now been sold so Antic's lease was terminated as of yesterday. However it seems the buyer was unaware of the Article 4 Direction the council placed on the pub that would prohibit change of use so it will, hopefully, have to remain a pub.

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