Local pubs win listed status

Deptford Dame found the link to the list of 26 buildings that were listed in the borough this month, to offer them protection against possible redvelopment in the future.

Most on the list are pubs and credit is due to Cllr Liam Curran for pushing the preservation of pubs up the local agenda. Listing doesn't guarantee protection, but it does make life more difficult for developers seeking a change of use and sends a signal that Lewisham cares about its pubs.

Here's the list of buildings pubs and a little of the detail about the local pubs. It's well-worth reading the full descriptions here, if you're into that sort of thing:

Albertines (formerly Clarendon Arms) 237 Lewisham Way
An attractive Victorian corner pub built as the ‘Clarendon Arms’ in 1857 on the site of the former Bricklayers’ Arms of 1803/04. It was renamed the ‘Malt and Hops’ in 1992 before its current sign of ‘Albertines’.

Brockley Jack – 408 Brockley Road
A large and ornate Victorian public house built in 1898 that includes a theatre built out of the former stables. There has been a pub on this site for several hundred years and a former landlord was rumoured to be a highway man. Previous names of the pubs on this site were ‘The Crooked Billet’ in the 1700s and the ‘The Castle’ in the 1800s.

The Brockley Barge, 184 Brockley Road
The Barge is located adjacent to Brockley Station and has an imposing curved elevation which faces towards New Cross. It occupies a narrow wedge site and makes a substantial contribution to the local streetscape. This pub dates from 1868 and takes its name from the barges on the Croydon Canal which is now the railway track. The canal closed in 1836 but the pub retained the canal links by incorporating the look of a canal boat with the ground floor curved elevation and in the name.

The Black Horse, 195 Evelyn Street
A traditional three storey Victorian working pub from the 1870/80s. It is built in stock brick with deep decorative eaves. The original bull nosed timber sash windows remain to the upper floor but the first floor windows have been replaced.

Ravensbourne Arms, 323 Lewisham High Street
The Ravensbourne Arms, was built as the Coach and Horses in 1934. It is a substantial pub which occupies the plot between Legge Street and Romborough Way on Lewisham High Street.

Ladywell Tavern, 80 Ladywell Road
The Ladywell Tavern was built in 1846 on the corner of Ladywell Road and Slagrove Place.

The Haberdashers (formerly The Rosemary Branch/The Hardcastle) 44 Lewisham Way
The Haberdashers is a classically inspired pub built as the Rosemary Branch around 1854. It is a three storey building built from yellow stock brick with stuccoed detailing.

The Cranbrook, 65 Cranbrook Road
The Cranbrook is an unusual and beautiful bullnosed building on the junction of Brookmill Road and Cranbrook Road. It was built in 1854 as part of the creation of Deptford New Town in the mid – late 19th century. It reflects the building style of the surrounding terraces in the Brookmill conservation area which are simply designed with classical influences and unified with a rendered parapet.

The Harp, 2 – 4 New King Street
Built in 1897, this is a large and attractive pub that sits facing down Deptford High St from Evelyn Street. It is astride the two junctions with New King Street and Watergate Street and has been designed to address these streets as well. It makes a handsome contribution to the streetscape.

The White Swan, Deptford High Street
An imposing corner property situated on Deptford High Street on the corner with Edward Street. This was built as a pub and also a hotel in the early 1800s. It is stock brick with classical detailing and retains the original pub frontage.

Other buildings listed include:

- The Dolphin, 121 Sydenham Road
- The Fellowship Inn, Randlesdown Road
- The Dacre Arms, 11 Kingswood Place
- The Perry Hill (formerly the Two Brewers), 78 – 80 Perry Hill
- The Hare and Billet , 1a Hare and Billet Road
- The Crown, 117 Burnt Ash Hill
- The Old Tigers Head, 351 Lee High Road
- Joiners Arms, 66 Lewisham High Street
- 110 Kirkdale, (formerly The Woodman)
- Golden Lion, 116 Sydenham Road
- 180 – 190 Lewisham High Street
- 93 – 95 Lewisham High Street
- 85 – 87 Lewisham High Street
- 65 – 71 Lewisham High Street
- Taymount Grange, Taymount Rise

33 comments:

whealie said...

The Hair and Billet - must be the barber's next door to the pub, surely?

Brockley Nick said...

ha good spot. Fixed.

Anonymous said...

Good work by the Council there! Is this the same legislation which prevents the Catford Bridge Tavern being converted into a supermarket, or just legislation to ensure the exteriors stay mostly untouched - i.e. the pub buildings would still exist but may become a supermarket?

Anonymous said...

Hate to sound negative about this but; So why was the Walpole recently shut down for re-development if they're so concerned about protecting pubs in the area?

Anonymous said...

Albertines may be bricks and mortar worthy of listing, but as a pub it's a public nuisance. The late licence means it's more of a nightclub. Their noisy customers regularly urinate against our fence and block our driveway with their cars. They've had numerous warnings, but go back to their old ways every time. Not a highlight of Brockley living.

whealie said...

If you bought a house in a quiet residential street and someone opened a pub next door, I could understand getting upset by it, but if the pub existed and you bought a house next door, what did you expect?

Anonymous said...

For your information, I've been in the building 18 years, and Albertine's, for me at least, is a very new incarnation. Get your facts right before passing judgement. And pissing into your garden shouldn't be acceptable or tolerated regardless how long someone had lived there.

Anonymous said...

Piss is organic and is all part of the circle of life actually.

Anonymous said...

Well, this is about the architectural merit of these pubs rather than how well they are run.

Matt-Z said...

Good news I guess. Though it remains to be seen how much effect this protection affords the buildings.

Speaking of closed pubs, is there any word on Jam Circus?

Matt-Z said...

Surplus 'effect' there, sorry.

Tamsin said...

Should still be possible to get the Walpole at least listed - the interior (see an earlier thread) is wonderful and could easily be incoported into the planned hotel on the site.

Anonymous said...

Surely the Wickham Arms should be on there? Isn't it one of the oldest coach houses in London?

FintonStack said...

The Wickham may or may not be ancient as an institution, but the building's from the late C19th.

headhunter said...

I don't think the Wickham is at all old....it and the ex lord Wolseley (opposite, now flats) were part of the development of what is now the conservation area in the late 19th century, previously the land was just brick works and market gardens....

NAT said...

No not 'old' old but the majority of the pubs listed are no older than Victorian so it is an odd omission.

Anonymous said...

The Wickham is older than The Ravensbourne which got its listing and, as for merit, Albertines aint exactly Versailles.

Headhunter said...

I suppose the listing criteria extend beyond simply the age of the building... All the pubs in Brockley, St Johns, Nunhead etc are no older than late 19th century, prior to that the whole area was simply fields and brick works, although some of them like the Brockley Jack have had pubs/inns on their respective sites for much longer

Headhunter said...

BTW, love the short history of the pubs... I'm intrigued that the "Brockley Barge" is named after the Croydon Canal, surely it was originally called the Breakspears Arms?

Anonymous said...

It was indeed.

The Breakspears Arms descended into a den of vice. Towards the end it became a drug dealers HQ and attracted desperate addicts from all over London. Brockley station was very unsafe, there were lots of muggings and the station itself was robbed several times. Eventually the pub was closed down and after a year or so taken over by Weatherspoons. They ran a competition to find a new name.

The past decade has seen a great change in pubs, they were once a haven from the poor standard of housing in the area. Nowadays, people have their central heating, Internet, big telly with Sky Sports and Movies and supermarkets that sell bargain basement booze and people can smoke.

Property speculating PubCos ran up huge debts and extract such a toll from tied leases that many pubs are barely viable.

The fate facing many pubs is either a company takes it over who know how to make it attractive to new customers or it goes to the property knackers yard and it gets turned into flats or a small supermarket.

It will need more than this listing strategy. I suspect that it may be challenged at some point by developers who know how to put pressure on council planning departments.

I would look at the policies of the freeholders. Which of these pubs are on a Pub Cos disposal list will give an indication of their eventual fate.

There is nothing quite so sad to see as a pub in its death throes, they become a public nuisance rather than an asset. The Breakspears Arms was thankfully saved and renovated in the face of very unpromising circumstances. So it can happen, but the pubs that can be saved have to be big enough to be viable.

Headhunter said...

SE London seems to suffer from pub closures more than other parts of the city, I used to live in Islington years ago and I didn't notice half as many conversions up there. Not sure why it is that they happen so frequently down here, perhaps councils elsewhere have been more resistant to developers taking over before now. Some of the developments round here are awful as well... Look at that conversion on Friendly Street, I think it was The Crown and Sceptre. It was quite an attractive corner pub with pleasant tiling which the developer ripped off. Now it looks like a toilet block, where the tiles were there is nothing but stained, unpainted render. Damn awful. And the developer actually seems proud of its work - they've actually put a sign with their name on the front!

NAT said...

Dear HH, the 'listing criteria' issue was addressed by the anon overhead you and you draw the wrong inference from fewer pubs closing North of the river as the closure rate has increased in the last ten years or so, which you would have noticed as a universal (well UK) phenomenon even if you still lived in Islington.
That said, Happy Christmas

Anonymous said...

The drugs thing was never (and still isn't) an issue - simply friends dealing with recreationals. I appreciate for the local mung bean eaters that may seem alien, but learn to live and let live.

Anonymous said...

Friends dealing with recreationals?

If only it was quite so friendly. It was't a bunch of art students trading herbal cigarrettes you know.

Maybe you were not around when coming out of Brockley station meant running a gauntlet desperate addicts.

I guess you were still at school at the time.

Was it approved?

headhunter said...

The usual rose tinted glasses attitude to drug dealing...a bunch of harmless friend swapping recreationals? Ha!

headhunter said...

Nat, how were the listing criteria addressed above? I lived in islington until mid 2006 and have been back frequently and have not noticed as many pub conversions up there as down here...having said that, this is just my perception of things

NAT said...

I know we've lost quite a few hereabouts HH but The Dead Pubs website lists over 200 for Islington.(5 Princes of Wales)
And the listing criteria question put simply was 'Why Albertines and not The Wickham?' Albertines has bigger eaves I suppose but...?

Anonymous said...

Headhunter, you mean to say you've not partaken in any herbs you couldn't buy from Shop on the Hill?

Anonymous said...

Are you one of those gullible types who buy 'herb' from the local Rasta guy?

Tim Lund said...

Sorry, but this is pointless gesture politics, from a councillor who would do better devoting his considerable experience to his own ward.  For more see here http://www.sydenham.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8860&sid=c38e57da75a55b760da3e6b8ef067325#p72490

NAT said...

I thought Cllr. Curran's iniative was well intentioned even if he left out some of our favourites. Your idea of making planning permission for converion more difficult to obtain is a good one.

Brockley Nick said...

It's a gesture which says: Lewisham is no longer a soft touch for developers who want to convert pubs to flats for a quick buck. That's an important gesture.

NAT said...

My God HH, You were right!
Lewisham is top of the league for closed pubs within the last 10 years at 38 percent, according to London News tonight.

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