Heathrow night flights a trial for Brockley residents

Brockley resident Elise Parkin writes:

Over the last several months I, and some of my neighbours, have noticed a dramatic increase is aircraft noise, especially through the night – often waking us at 4.30am.  We have contacted our local councillors and MP but have been told there is nothing they can do.

I have however, discovered that there is currently an “arrivals pilot scheme” (pardon the pun!) being run by Heathrow at the moment.  The effect of this is that Brockley is under one of the “Boxes” of areas which is now experiencing more aircraft passing by, starting from as early as 4.30am.  This trial period started on 5 November 2012 which fits in exactly with the disturbances I , and some neighbours have experienced, which seem to be getting worse.  It is due to compete in March 2013 although if it is considered a “success” it may become permanent.

We need as many people as possible who live in the area and are experiencing this disruption (or who simply want to support their neighbours) to log their complaints by calling this number: 0800 344844 or at noise_complaints@baa.com

All logged complaints will be considered when a decision is taken as to whether or not to make Brockley under the flight path permanent.

126 comments:

max doom! said...

ive noticed more flights by me in the evening - i think anyway - sort of a low rumble. just off lee high road

Indra (not Alice) said...

Done! It's been driving me mad!

SamB_UK said...

I have to admit that I've not noticed anything at all and it's certainly never woken me up at night. Occasionally I realise that I can hear aircraft noise above, so I guess it's something that's effectively just background noise to me now.

Tom said...

Crikey - look at the maps http://www.heathrowairport.com/static/Heathrow_Noise/Downloads/PDF/Early_morning_noise_respite_trial.pdf . In particular, the early morning trial avoiding inner boxes - every flight into Heathrow comes directly over Brockley!?!

Michael Hubbard said...

Tallies with what I've been hearing. Planes every minute or two from 4:20am-ish. 

There's a tracker program that shows where they're coming from; flights from both east and west now turn to the east of here and all of them come over us. 

This is the tracker site: http://webtrak.bksv.com/lhr

We weren't previously on the direct landing path; we now are. Some planes are flying over Brockley at less than 3,000ft on their final approach to Heathrow. 

Welcome to 2013 said...

Part and parcel of living in a city innit? This is the very definition of "not in MY back yard". Is there somewhere I can sign in favour of the proposals?

Brockley Nick said...

Ooh you are edgy.

Potentially it is NIMBY, unless you hold the view that Heathrow is the wrong location or that airport expansion / night flying over cities is wrong full stop, in which case, it's perfectly consistent. 

Monkeyboy said...

I use an App, Planefinder, just because I'm a bit geeky. I've always had planes flying directly over my place prior to November, not noticed an increase but I'll take your word for it. Personally i can live with it, I don't live in Zone 2 for the peace and quiet.

Anon said...

This really is stupid, unless they close Heathrow the planes have got to go somewhere. Imagine how much worse it is further west of us, just be thankful you don't live in Battersea or somewhere. You'll get used to the noise, and if it's that much of a problem get earplugs, well you definitely should when they build the third runway. You want quiet move to the country.

E Parkin said...

I do understand why you might think this, but it's not so much "not in my back yard" as "please don't change my back yard".  I can live with noise in the day/evening but being woken every night at 4.30am is physically harder to handle - remember this is a conservation area which many residents moved to because of its quietness which has now been taken away without any consultation or warning.

Aricana said...

I was aware of the increased air traffic and increased noise particularly from the low flying planes

Brockley Nick said...

Living in a conservation area doesn't protect you from any disturbance, nor should it.

Brockley Nick said...

The point of complaining is that it is a useful gauge for planners to understand the impact of one possible option for managing traffic. This is not the only option. 

They are asking for input from people. 

PS - a third runway is not inevitable. Boris Island or some variant may happen instead.

E Parkin said...

wow, I have to say that I am new to this website and this way of trying to identify neighbours who are also suffering.  Didn't expect to get insulting comments from someone who is not even willing to identify themself!  I'll simply say that of course I have tried ear plugs; I am thankful I don't live somewhere more noisy hence why I delibertaly moved Brockley (central but quiet - at least it was); and I'm sure the country has its own noises.  I do not propose to reply to any other comments (good or bad) after this.  If you are reading this and suffering from the noise issues, please register your complaint.  Over and out !

Aricana said...

 Thanks for the webtrak link.  Shocking!

Michael said...

I noticed that too - nightmare!

Liza, Manor Avenue said...

Yes, this new noise is utterly intolerable.  Like you I feel the daytime planes are just about bearable.  It's not NIMBY in my opinion, it's just commerce being put ahead of  people's health.  Again.  Thanks Elise for opening up this debate.  I have already rung the 0800  344844 number and registered my complaint. I long for a good night's sleep.  This is a good positive move.  If we just sit and let this happen we've only ourselves to blame

Clazza said...

Thanks for the thread have emailed them, fed up with having to sleep with ear plugs in .

1948liz said...

Wondered why I was waking up regularly at 4.30 am, as if an alarm clock had been set. Now I know.

No problem with flights per se, just night ones.

Michael Hubbard said...

Flying over Europe's largest city at all shouldn't happen. Flying over its inner zones at 4:30am is just nuts.

Called the number, left a message.

(New comments format's looking rather fine, by the way.)

anonymous said...

Didn't  flights always start at 4.30am? Difficult to criticise if you ever take a flight isn't it? Years ago tehe Broc Soc tried to do something.

confused said...

I'm confused! Are the 4 blue and red boxes designed to benefit from the noise relief or are they taking the redirected traffic to relieve the residents of Berkshire? 

Most of the traffic runs between the 4 boxes. Surely those areas are more affected (including Blackheath and Deptford). So why are the boxes relevant?  

The third scheme (after the trial) is different to the prior scheme which indicates that the they are not going back to the prior scheme. However, in the third scheme the bottom right red box which covers most of Brockley is free of traffic.   

This is tactic designed to appease HACAN which is now a very powerful political lobby group. So they are moving the traffic from a population that has an established and well established campaign group to an area that hasn't. 

That's my main opposition to this. South East London is always dumped on.  

Liza, Manor Avenue said...

Hi, Actually the Broc Soc succeeded in stopping the air noise pollution all those years ago if my memory serves me correctly, so this is definately worth pursuing.  But no, the 4.30 flights started on 5th Nov I believe.

Hob said...

Test

Hob said...

I find wind direction makes a massive difference as to whether we are affected or not, if its unfavourable on a dazzling summer pre 06:00 start when the windows are already open a crack the noise is pretty persistently irritating. Presumably blythe, hilltop, telegraph & 1 tree hills act as a kind of amphi, but I'm no geographer. Fully expect to be awake at 04:45 tomorrow a.m. now, listening out to see just how bad it is.

Alan said...

I have sent them a complaint and asked them to send their planes elsewhere. Fingers crossed.

F4monty said...

Doesn't really bother me. As someone else said, you live in the city... It brings benefits and inconvenience. I wonder what people would say if the world's airlines took their business and jobs to Europe?

Bcy said...

I have more issues with emergency service sirens, which I find more of a disturbance.

Aricana said...

What's the best way of letting more people know about he pilot?  Leafleting maybe?

Tamsin said...

No, it was 5pm that they used to start - gradually pushing earlier

Tamsin said...

My perception is that sirens are less of a disturbance than they used to be - and you certainly see them now only lighting up and sounding off when they actually need to do so to get through traffic.  While the way is clear they are silent.

Tamsin said...

Yes, you are right, there was a big issue about it probably 15 or so years ago with the various amenity societies, Broc. Soc. and the Telegraph Hill Society involved.

Anonymous said...

 Probably "I think I'll set up an airline and make a fortune as there is no competition on routes from London, where there remains loads of demand. Huzzah!"

You have no idea said...

I lived in Feltham.  You posh Brockley people have no idea at all what a noisy plane is, or a night flight.  If you think the aircraft noise you get here is a problem, then I suggest you don't know that you are born.

Shut up whinging and whining and go and knit your lunch out of tofu.  Your outraged complaints are an embarrassment.

Monkeyboy said...

If we accept that heathrow will not close (leaving aside expansion for a moment) then planes cannot avoid a fairly restricted route. The runways obviously point in one direction, usually built to take advantage of the prevailing wind. So unless the airport is closed, someone in London will be inconvenienced.

Or we could employ some Top Gun pilots who could pull a sharp turn at the last minute. We could then route all the traffic over Islington.

Brockley Nick said...

Yes, I do have an idea what Feltham is like, which is exactly why I chose not to live there.

You have no idea said...

The point is that the loudest voices in this debate come from people under the flight path a long way away and almost always middle class.  No one ever asks anyone in Bedfont what they think.  The views of Brockley and Wandsworth Council and HACAN should be entirely secondary.

And maybe they should ask the people of Bedfont and Isleworth just where it is they work and what is it that they do?

Not everyone can susbsist on open studios weekends.

You have no idea said...

"South East London is always dumped on"

Rubbish.

Brockley Nick said...

Irrelevant whatabboutery.

The people of Bedfont are just as able to express their opinions as anyone else. You'll notice BAA have not exactly been forthcoming to the people of Brockley about this process.
If someone comes and punches you in the face, you are entitled to complain about it, even if you are the worst kind of person - middle class. 

PS - Child poverty rates are higher in Lewisham than Hounslow, so your chippiness is as misplaced as it is irrelevant.

Nionios said...

Last night I called the telephone line that somebody provided via this thread and they replied this morning. They said that the overall volume of traffic over Brockley is not going up. What is changing is the distribution of the same volume over time. They also logged my complaint and will pass it on to those who make decisions but they stressed that this is a trial, not the definitive new arrangement. So, it is worth ringing them (0800  344844) or writing to them. 

Tamsin said...

But you don't half notice the difference when it stops.  Viva Eyjafjallaj√∂kull!

Mezzer said...

"They said that the overall volume of traffic over Brockley is not going up. What
is changing is the distribution of the same volume over time."In other words it's noisier earlier - which is the whole issue! 

You have no idea said...

Yes, Brockley is so representative of Lewisham.

Ricky said...

Much better in Catford since they started this. Probably shouldn't mention that on here!

Monkeyboy said...

Well more so than feltham, as its you know, part of lewisham. Look around SE4, to pretend its like Chelsea is laughable.

Having said all that, I sleep like the dead so it's not something I've noticed.

Tamsin said...

Yes it is...  Think of the Honor Oak Estate and the sheer number of the large houses in the Conservation Area that are converted into flats and owned by housing associations or the Council.  From the Voluntary Action Lewisham Website:

"Pockets of deprivation are spread throughout the borough, but concentrated in the north in Evelyn, New Cross, and Telegraph Hill wards and also parts of Brockley and Lewisham Central."

So, sorry, but we do have some idea...

UB_Rogue said...

If you look at the maps of the routes and watch the replays for this week on the webtrack thing from about 4.30am, what is most striking is that basically, when the "inner" box is ative and planes avoid it, every single flight arriving from the East converges over a spot that pretty much centres on Brockley Cross - it's like they've picked it as an aiming point.

What this means is that instead of the pain being shared as it has been before with a few flights heading over a lot of different areas, Brockley (and everywhere else from about Lewisham to Camberwell and Brixton) get ALL the planes over them, and that's what bugs me about this. Basically, I agree that we live in a big city and plane noise is expected, but flight paths should spread that over everyone and not converge it all on one area. So yes, it is a bit NIMBY - but I'd argue that the "trial" makes is JIMBY - JUST in my back yard (and Camberwell's, Peckahm's, Lewisham's) as opposed to IEBY - in everyone's back yard. (I am stretching the acronyms now, i know).

People who live close to Heathrow chose to do so for one reason or another and i'm afraid i have less sympathy for their gripes.

Tom said...

I'd say "thank god for that - climate change may be wrecking the environment, but at least we're slightly less guilty than we used to be" 

mum of two said...

Flying over densely populated cities at 4.30am should not be allowed, above any other consideration young children should at least have a chance at getting a good night sleep. This noise disturbance will affect all children, no matter what their parents 'background' is. I don't think airports should be banned, nor night buses, but when teachers complain about kids falling asleep in class and unable to concentrate we shouldn't blythely assume that this is a middle class complaint or nimbyism.

E Parkin said...







Hi, if you let us
know the name of the school your children go to, we will be sure to ask the
Head to put our flyer on the school notice board to make parents aware of the
complaints number - and that their complaint may help to stop this pilot scheme becoming
permanent. Thanks.

E Parkin said...

we are trying to organise this.  what street do you live in - we can be sure to leaflet that street ?

Steinerpenny said...

I noticed a bit but suspect I would have noticed much more had it been summer where I enjoy spending my evenings in the garden... one must wonder why they chose winter to carry out their little test! I have emailed and complained.

Aricana said...

That's great.  I live in Arica Road

Nionios said...

There are two issues: overall volume AND distribution of volume of traffic over time

Anonymous said...

Won't somebody please think of the children?!

Oh no, hold on. Children don't care about planes flying over them.

If something as far away as a plane wakes you up then you have bigger problems but it shouldn't be. Get some earplugs and stop putting words into the mouths of little Millie and Mungo who quite honestly don't care.

JPM said...

I spoke to Heathrow press office. They claim that these flights have been coming over Brockley for ‘a number of years’.

Though they could not state when these actually started.

The current box scheme is divided between four, that’s two inner and two outer boxes.

Confused, if not you soon will be.

Traffic will not enter these boxes once one is ‘activated’.
 
In other words pilots will be told to avoid one of these boxes during the experimental run to March. This will allow those residents in the activated box to have a week of peace, followed by a week of 430am and onwards flights. (I know, barking innit?)
Heathrow claims that it is open to feedback from Brockley residents. It said that it had published details in Newsshopper and elsewhere. But this was a bit sketchy.

Tamsin said...

A point raised by someone when the the start time was pushed back to 5am a decade or so ago was not so much young children -who if healthily tired can sleep through anything - but years 11 and first thing facing really important exams.  Woken up early and then lying awake fretting.

Anonymous said...

That really is clutching at straws.

Live in a city? You get used to it easily. If not - earplugs.

It's time everyone pulled their socks up and got on with their lives, we didn't win 2 world wars with hand wringing like this.

Monkeyboy said...

Well no, the Americans getting in on the act after pearl harbour and the Russian success were instrumental.

Tamsin said...

I wonder how my typing "13" came out as "first thing"...?

It was a chap genuinely concerned about the effect on his daughter working for her GCSEs and not getting enough sleep.

Earplugs are not particularly comfortable and not necessarily an answer to such low frequency sound.

And since you mention it, one of the things we fought for in the second world war was the right to complain about such things.

Ez said...

I find the sound of aircraft soothing. When somebody walks past at 5 a.m. shouting into their mobile or a car goes by with its music system blaring, the comforting rumble of turbofans overhead helps me get back to sleep.

terrencetrentderby said...

If only the planes could somehow fly into space from Heathrow and then re enter the atmosphere at their destination airport. 

Blahblahblah said...

It does when you live in Brockley and get woken up by the sound of African hip hop at 5am mingled with the sound of two people having a shout conversation.

JPM said...

If Heathrow staff are reading some of these responses, which I suspect they are, then Brockley will certainly have 430am flights: forever.

Panda C said...

Nothing new here. Planes have been coming in over Brockley/Hillyfields starting at 04.30 for at least the last 30 years, it used to be called the "Lettuce Run".

Anonymous said...

Plus the ever so subtle sound of a dog whistle being blown

Hmm said...

I doubt that.

emp said...

It's hilarious that people say nothing has changed - do you think that those of us suffering have nothing better to do than make this up ??? Seriously...

Tamsin said...

They did not start at 4.30 and, obviously, there were fewer of them.  And it used to vary depending on the stacking system which I think changed with the wind direction.

Mark you we have lost some - you used to see Concorde once a day around 4.30 in the afternoon, which was lovely.

Iok said...

Live in a city and want a better place to live? Yes thanks, so stop assuming there is nothing better in life to aspire to, whatever your class is. 

2 World Wards were won precisely by not letting powerful forces get away with their want. 

Some will be affected by this issue, some won't and it's better to act than not at all. If you're happy with the flight give em a call.

Rob said...

Can a online partition also be logged etc before if continues ?

Gibby said...

I still not entirely sure why people think it's ok to be woken up at 04.30 just because you live in a city. Ho hum.

Gibby said...

I'm. Not I. Tired....

Brockley Nick said...

Some people who aren't being woken up think it's fine for other people to be woken up.

Anonymous said...

Other people need to start being less sensitive. It's a big scary world out there you know. What next - no cars on the street? No birds?

Brockley Nick said...

Why do you care? This is an important issue to some people. It isn't to you. So leave them alone. I'm sure BAA are big and ugly enough to handle themselves, without your heroic intervention.

jupiter said...

I had been wondering what was going on with all the early morning racket, flights every 2 minutes, it is just as bad in the evening too, such as tonight... Sunday 6th, every three minutes. Why fly so low over a populated area, it's crazy?

jupiter said...

And we moved here to get away from the  flight noise in South West London

Iok said...

Yes, because the dBA rating of birdsong is exactly the same as that of jet aircraft. I stand corrected. Thankyou for your illuminating contribution. 

When One Direction master their new CD I assume you'll be involved...you clearly have a fine ear.I think someone should take a dose of their own advice and be a little less sensitive about people with different opinions posting on a topic they care about. It's a big scary world y'know and people can be patronising.

No Planes Please said...

I am often woken in the early hours of the morning by people who are drunk, shouting and/or generally being unruly in my street. I realise that those in West London probably have had it worse so far as Aircraft noise is concerned, but since many of those areas are more affluent than much of SE London (we're not all posh and living in Dulwich Village, Blackheath and Greenwich), at least they probably experience less ASB.It is bad enough having to deal with the amount of anti-social behaviour that occurs in Brockley and New Cross, without also adding Aircraft noise also.

Nick, perhaps just delete the comments of "You have no idea". They're just offensive and unhelpful.

Tracker addict said...

First, Elise: thanks for posting this. I'd been thinking about the aircraft noise too, so it's useful to have more information. Second, thanks to others for the links to the scheme plans and the tracker site, etc.. I have spent (too) much time playing with this over the weekend, and have the following comments and questions:

It seems to me that since the start of the trial there have been 10-15 flights each morning between 4:25-6am, at least half of which are usually before 5am. When the south runway is used, the flights go directly over Brockley Cross and over my house on Tyrwhitt Road. When the north runway is used, flights go just north of the A2 over Deptford. It seems that the switch from north to south runway is happening as scheduled in the scheme's 'Trial and runway alternation schedule'. However, it also seems that the flights pretty much always come in from the east not the west. The schedule seems to suggest that east and west will switch each week as well as north and south runways, unless 'weather conditions and/or external factors preclude selection of the preferred runway'. 

So why are all the flights now coming in from the east? Have I misunderstood the scheme, or have conditions and/or other factors meant that east is almost always necessary? Both are possible, given my limited understanding of all this - especially as fights seem to land from the east the overwhelming majority of the time (see http://www.heathrowairport.com/noise/noise-in-your-area/aircraft-tracking-maps ).

The tracker data from before the trial (October 2012) shows far fewer flights arriving before 6am. Usually only 4 or 5, and usually none before 5.15am. However, if one turns on the 'flight details' info, what sees is that these are often the same flights as during the trial, but an hour later. For example, there are some BA and Virgin flights from Hong Kong that fly over my house at 4:30am now, but flew over my house at 5:30am before the trial. Why? I think it's because the clocks have changed, but most of the flights still run on the same 'global GMT'. Is that possible? In which case, it's co-incidence (or conspiracy) that the trial started just as daylight savings time kicked in, and the people who are saying that there have always been 4:30am flights in the past may be right. There certainly always have been some early flights (me and my family have lived here for 30 years), but there weren't always this many, and certainly not every day.

The webtrack tracker only goes back to October 2012, so does anyone know of any equally detailed tracking data from the same period last year? That might help clarify whether there are more, or earlier, flights now than this time last year, and whether they came from the west much more frequently then.

All of which ignores all the 'inner' and 'outer' boxes stuff that is meant to be happening, which looks to me like a bit of a red-herring for us in the east. The issue for us (or for those of us for whom it is an issue) seems to be that almost all of the flights now come in from the east, when perhaps very few of them did before, and that they come in a 4:30am during the winter, which is arguably too early for anyone (east or west).  

But I may just be confused - I haven't had much sleep for the last couple of weeks....

Monkeyboy said...

I've used "planefinder" iPhone app for ages while gazing out my window (strangely addictive). Flight have almost always arrived from the east before the trial date and flown over BX. May well be starting earlier but the direction hasn't changed as far as I know.

jupiter said...

Thank you, I am tired and exhausted from being woken and find some peoples arrogance and rudeness about this ridiculous.i wonder if they derive some juvenile pleasure from suggesting that we are all middle class. Sleeplessness has nothing to do with class, money, age or education... Perhaps a flyer in the local paper... we are about to loose our hospital and our sleep too unless we protest together

Anonymous said...

You say that, but I bet there's someone curled up under an underpass tonight who would like to be in the position of complaining about flight paths from the vantage point of a conservation area.

Brockley Nick said...

And?...

Anonymous said...

That perhaps our lot isn't quite as bad as made out.

Brockley Nick said...

So?

Will not be signing... said...

Disregarding the extra slightly earlier flights (there have always been a few early flights coming in), I wonder if people of Brockley have ever wondered where the planes were flying over before this new trial came into effect.  Other areas not far from Brockley have had it worse than Brockley for many years and not moaned about it but have just put up with it.  I live this end of Forest Hill and believe you me, the slight change in flight path of planes arriving at Heathrow has been a blessing to a lot of people.  The lonnnnnng suffering others deserve their chance of a bit more peace and quite during the whole of the day let alone at 5 in the morning, and at the moment and hopefully for a long time to come, we're getting it!!!

Brockley Nick said...

Paradoxically, you are reinforcing the objectors point: you live elsewhere, under an early morning flightpath and strongly dislike it. So you acknowledge Brockley residents have good grounds to object to it being placed above them.

Will not be signing... said...

So?

Regardless, what i'm saying is that Brockley residents have had it far better than a lot of London for a long period of time who have not moaned about it and now the flight path has moved which is giving others a bit of restbite after years and years of air traffic directly over head.
 
That's all i'm saying, it should be acknowledged by Brockley Central readers.

Will not be signing... said...

....and how can you reply to my comment but be put as a fresh comment, where I reply to yours and go underneath your comment?

Brockley Nick said...

Yes, fine, I think we're all aware that in this respect Brockley has been relatively fortunate. All areas have their pluses and minuses. When a new negative comes along, it's perfectly reasonable for people affected to complain about it. 

Danja said...

We have always had early morning flights, there just seem to be many more of them (subjectively, before I was aware of this thread).

Tracker addict said...

So, to follow up from my comment yesterday: it seems that there have always been early flights from the east, and that flights tend to come from the east in general, but that it may well now be that: 
(1) the flights are almost always coming from the east during the trial even though the trial schedule implies that east and west will switch weekly (as well as north and south runway); and (2) contrary to my previous comment, the boxes are having an effect: they have moved the early morning flights so that rather than some of the flights going over TR/BX (or Dep/NX) and some of the flights going over other parts of SE London, all of the early morning flights now go over TR/BX (or Dep/NX) every morning (to the relief of those living elsewhere).  With the added kicker that 5:30am summer flights come in at 4:30am in the winter.....so now, if the 4:30am flights wake you, you may not get back to sleep because now all the other flights come in over the same route at 5-6 minute intervals, whereas before a least some of them came over elsewhere...

ry emmet said...

Thanks for flagging this up -i thought i'd noticed an increase in early morning flights. So the upshot of the trial is to distribute most of these away from Berkshire and onto SE London -seems like a blatant attempt to protect Tory seats in advance of the election if it goes permanent. 

Well i don't want to be woken up at 4.30am every morning so i think everyone living in Brockley etc should be made aware of this and complain!
 

SD said...

Hi I believe it was the Brockley Cross Action Group and was on of first things Stuart did and they were successful. We have a right to peaceful nights, everyone does and its just stupid to let it go and not complain its not going to get better. 

SD said...

Given that a lot of us seem to be awake we could hit their system with emails of complaint  at about 4.30 a.m.....

Tracker addict said...

I've looked at more tracking data (details below). When flights come from the east (as they do most of the time), almost all flights now fly over Brockley all day. This is a massive increase in the number of flights over Brockley, and is not only disturbing and distressing to those of us now under the flightpath, it is also contrary to the publicly stated intention of the 'noise respite trial'. If you think this isn't acceptable, please contact BAA to tell them.

The details: I looked at flight patterns on the webtracker at the same times (5:30am, 2:30pm, 6:30pm, 9:30pm) on several days over the last three months, looking in particular at where flights arriving from the east join the 'final straight line run-in' to LHR. In October, flights stacked in North London usually joined the line between Clapham Common and Battersea, sometimes joined around Camberwell, and occasionally joined over Brockley or further east. Flights stacked in South London usually joined between Camberwell and Clapham Common, sometimes joined over Brockley, and occasionally joined further east. Since the trial started, almost all flights, from North and South, join the line over Brockley throughout the day, with a few still joining further east as before. This is why there is now the (almost continuous) sound of planes turning or flying straight over Brockley, all day.

This pattern may well match the lines in the images on the 'noise respite trial' website: when the inner box is active, flights come in just east the eastern edge of the inner box, lining up over Brockley to begin their descent. When the outer box is active, flights come in just west of the western edge of the outer box, again usually lining up over Brockley to begin their descent. There are also some flights that line up way out east, and just come straight through over Brockley.

What isn't part of the trial, as publicly stated, is that this now happens all day, even though the boxes are supposed to be active only between 4:30am and 6am, and when the outer box is active, flights could revert to their October 2012 pattern and come in over Camberwell, Clapham and Battersea rather than Brockley, but they don't. 

So Brockley now gets almost all eastern arrivals, from north and south London, throughout the day, and this is happening because the changes that are part of the 'early morning noise respite trial' are effectively being deployed all day rather than only between 4:30am and 6am. And, as said before, arrivals are usually from the east, even though east and west are supposed to alternate each week. If you think any of that isn't acceptable, then please complain.  

Brockley Jon said...

 Good work there, Tracker addict, thanks for doing the homework.

Danja said...

My suspicion is that HACAN have been fooled by BAA into endorsing a trial of third runway flight patterns, which BAA hope to use to support their case. 

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately Brockley lies directly east of one of the Heathrow runways - unless they move the airport or runways we are going to be stuck with this constant noise.

E Parkin said...

this is excellent research - thank you!  Would you be prepared to write to Joan Ruddock MP telling her this ?  I have already complained ot her and the local councillors.  Your information would add substance.

Tracker addict said...

Thanks. I'm planning to write to various people about this, so I'll include Joan Ruddock MP.

Note that my analysis is based on eye-balling flights on the webtracker rather than more specific data analysis or flight line image generation, and that while my analysis matches my subjective experience of the current situation, I am sure that BAA (and others) will present more specific information at the end of the trial - and they also have access to data from this time last year, which we don't. So one never knows what conclusions BAA may be able to draw.

I think it would be hard for them to provide evidence that there hadn't been a significant increase in flights over Brockley, or that there hadn't been more flights from the east than from the west - indeed, that's already clear in the images from November 2012 that are on the trial website. But BAA could just focus on flights before 6am (which is what the trial is supposed to be about) and ignore everything after 6am - even though the fact that almost all flights now go over Brockley all day causes me just as much disturbance (and anger) as the pre-6am changes. 
Something to watch for when the results come out, perhaps....

E Parkin said...

Dear All, Councillor Darren Johnson is now supporting our cause.  Please contact him to tell him if you are suffering!  thanks

E Parkin said...

Dear All, Councillor Darren Johnson is now supporting our cause. Please contact him to tell him if you are suffering! thanks

https://twitter.com/DarrenJohnsonAM

or



Darren.Johnson@london.gov.uk



Worried said...

It easy to see from the flighttracker that whereas maybe only 2 or 3 flights came over Brockley Cross between 4.30am and 6am before the trial, typically 15 or more do so now and you shouldn't have any difficulty showing that.  It is surely an obvious consequence of the trial that if the flight routes are planned to avoid the boxes shown then they will be squeezed into the gap in between - straight over Brockley.  It seems unfair that one area relatively far from Heathrow should be affected so disproportionately.
The big question is what happens after the trial ends.  Will routes go back to being more widely dispersed or will this pattern continue?  Brockley' misfortune is to be on the straight line route towards one of the runways.

I was looking into moving to the area but not if I am going to find myself on a flight path. I'd never consider SW London for that reason (amongst others of course!

Tootiredtotype said...

For info. I mailed and received this reply-
Dear Resident, Thank you for your enquiry to the Community Relations Team about aircraft noise.  We are sorry you have been disturbed by noise from Heathrow. In order to ensure that your enquiry can be registered and investigated accurately, we would be grateful if you could ensure that you have provided your full address, postcode and telephone number. Due to the large volume of queries we are currently experiencing, there may be a delay in responding to you but please be assured we will get back to you as soon as we can.  Please be assured that all complaints made to this office either by telephone, email or webtrak, are recorded and where appropriate investigated.  They will then be allocated a unique reference number.  These statistics are reported to the Heathrow Airport Consultative Committee (www.hacc.org.uk ) as well as being published in our Flight Evaluation quarterly reports on our website atwww.heathrowairport.com/noise.If you query is urgent, you may like to call us during office hours on Freephone 0800 344 844. Best wishes Heathrow Community Relations team

Confused said...

Well, the runway and zone must be active again becase from 4.30am there has been a constant stream of aircraft coming over Brockley.

They should be done under the trade description act for calling this a respite scheme. The only permanent respite is for those communities that have lobbied for decades to shift the landing routes over to SE London.

Yes there is respite for parts of SE London when the zones is activated - but only from noise that wasn't there before!

Its not hard to see the outcome of this trial - it will be a resounding successs for those commnities that lobbied for the change. And then it will be SE London that inherits the problem and it takes decades to get organised and set up the necessary pressure groups to enforce a change. Great.

For the conspiracy theorists - it is very coincidental that this scheme coincided with the biggest off plan sell off of luxury flats in Europe - location battersea an area primarily getting full respite from this scheme.  

Astroturfing said...

I think you need to tell us your street or post otherwi see e we will have to assume you are employed by BAA


because posting anonymously and insulting everyone is just too suspicious

Bluesman said...

I don't understand the alternate East and West approach concept.  The prevailing wind at LHR is Westerly - this means that planes approach from the East most days.

Me said...

Are the plans getting louder and becoming more frequent?

I'm finding that I'm being woken up more and more by them

guest said...

I really hope this doesn't become permanent ... it's driving me insane!

NewgirlArabin said...

I didn't know about the trial until I got a flyer through the door. I've now complained. Tell all your neighbours! Not everyone is aware that this is going on. Hopefully together we can all make an impact.

E Parkin said...

Yes please do all tell your neighbours and if there is more than one person per household, pl all register separate complaints. After 2 quiet weeks the rota is back over brockley starting at 4.30am and not finishing until gone 11pm ! If you are willing to leaflet your street/area pl contact us at brockleynoise@hotmail.com (imagine the noise in summer with windows open if this becomes permanent!

Parkin said...

Apologies for typo it's brockleynoise@hotmail.co.uk

oryx said...

I had the misfortune to wake in the early hours and the plane noise was horrendous. I am right down the southern end of SE4.

When I moved here from SW London six years ago I could swear I noticed a big difference - here was much quieter, plane-wise. Last night was like being back in SW8!

Will definitely be complaining.

stasaph said...

I moved to Brockley because it was nice and quiet - if this becomes permanent it would be a strong reason for me to leave the place, as much as a I love it here.

Brockley Nick said...

Is Brockley nice and quiet? I've never thought of it as quiet. Nice, certainly.

NewgirlArabin said...

This scheme is linked to a wider government consultation which is looking to change night flight paths across the south east. If you look at the docs, they're holding winter and summer trials, although have cheekily delayed the summer trials to now, when everyone is inside with windows shut! Details can be found here https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/night-flights-consultation. You can complain by emailing night.noise@dft.gsi.gov.uk. If you read the aims of the trial, they are really unclear and hard to fathom, which is ominous. It's reported on the BBC website here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21140732.

Brockkles said...

I totally agree...the low flying planes and noise have been really effecting us too. IT'S SO NOISY! Some days/mornings are worse than others, but I, too am woken up by it and hear it continuously throughout the day. I have emailed and will call. 

Brockkles said...

I totally agree...the low flying planes and noise have been really effecting us too. IT'S SO NOISY! Some days/mornings are worse than others, but I, too am woken up by it and hear it continuously throughout the day. I have emailed and will call. 

Flyboy said...

Presuming you live on St.Asaph Rd like me, the fairly constant sound of cars, lorries and people from the street means that I have never thought of Brickley as quiet! Presumably your hearing must be fairly bad so you wouldn't be able to hear planes anyway.

thomas steeve said...

I had been wondering what was going on with all the early morning
racket, flights every 2 minutes, it is just as bad in the evening too,
such as tonight... Sunday 6th, every three minutes. Why fly so low over a
populated area, it's crazy?


 


cheap flights fares cheap flights rates

the1beard said...

Please sign this aircraft noise petition. thank you.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/47098

Greenwich Plane Noise said...

Is anyone still pursuing this? I noticed a reply from Heathrow which claims that planes are not flying any lower, just that they are bigger! So basically in the future, they can get bigger and bigger planes fly over London, without any consideration of the noise they make? This is insane!

Mr Colins’ response claims that Greenwich has been overflown by the same extent of aircraft for some time. He also states that the heights of aircraft has not changed, and that there are now more A380s using Heathrow which are very large and can appear lower to people on the ground. Understandably, residents find this response far from satisfactory far from satisfactory. Mr Colins goes on to suggest that the publicity around the EMAT has heightened some people’s awareness to noise. My constituents beg to differ, with one lady exclaiming ‘He may be sensitive to publicity about aircraft noise, I am not’.

Source: http://www.nickraynsford.org.uk/heathrow-aircraft-noise-continuing-to-cause-headaches

Thirou said...

is absolutely disgraceful that planes are directed over the houses - the noise is non stop from 4:30 am and is extremely disruptive to people's sleep. Whomever made the decision should lose their job and be put in the stocks for all the sleep deprived people to see and deal with as they go into work everyday (tired)... Dockwell close is the most disturbed and nobody is doing anything to change that

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