Ladywell CPZ to get bigger

Ladywell will get an expanded Controlled Parking Zone, following a public consultation by Lewisham Council, which concluded recently.

The zone will be expanded to Algiers Road, Ermine Road, Ladycroft Road, Shell Road, Veda Road and Vicars Hill, after a majority of respondents (63%) living on those streets said yes. A second consultation about the creation of an even bigger Ladywell CPZ produced a majority no (59%) vote.

Lewisham Council says:

Overall, the introduction of a new parking zone across the whole study area is not supported. However, we have analysed the data in greater detail which shows that there is clear support from streets to the west of the existing Ladywell (T) parking zone and therefore a CPZ extension has been approved for that area.

The voting results mean that those adversely affected by the creation of the original Ladywell CPZ have chosen to opt in, rather than put up with the overflow of cars that resulted from the introduction of parking controls on neighbouring streets. Those unaffected by these problems would rather have no CPZ at all, which suggests if the first one hadn't been created in the first place, gross local happiness would have been higher.

In a few years time, if the streets that voted no find themselves having to put up with problems created by the larger CPZ, Lewisham can just put it to another vote. So it goes.

The new CPZ will come into effect in the autumn. Thanks to Glenn for the info.

60 comments:

anon said...

We desperately need CPZ around Brockley station (especially the west side). It's absolutely ridiculous now.

Headhunter said...

And so the cancer spreads. What started with a few people complaining that they couldn't unload their shopping outside their homes has begun to affect a massive area of Ladywell and turned into a cash cow for the council....

JB said...

Living in a flat in SE13, with no driveway and within a CPZ, it is bitter-sweet.


Yes I can always get a parking space right outside my home..


But each time we have visitors, parking is the bane of my life.


Each extension of the CPZ simply pushes the problem to a new road....


When looking for my next property, I will make sure I have a driveway!

Headhunter said...

And that's how it will start in Brockley and spread ever outwards until it links with the Ladywell CPZ... Once these things start they just get ever bigger

Corin Ashwell said...

Is there enough space for everyone who wants to park in Ladywell to park there? No. So, how to ration the available space?

Brockley Nick said...

Space rations itself - whoever gets there first wins. A CPZ rations on ability to pay.

Brockley Nick said...

Not in my view we don't. Parking is pretty much fine except for one or two streets. But the problem is that CPZs aren't for a couple of streets. They affect a wide area.

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

This will probably reach Tyrwhitt just as I am ready to retire to the country - I hope!

Brockley Nick said...

Kids I think we can discount. I have kids. It's no great hardship not to be able to park outside my house. Annoying perhaps, but good exercise. I have no greater claim on a spot than someone living next door without kids.


We should provide bays for those with disabilities.


Those who want to live on car free roads I suppose I sympathise with, but do CPZs deliver that? No, but they do seem to cause chaos on neighbouring streets.


Personally, I think there is a place for CPZs when problems are really acute, but as HH says, the original problem that led to the original CPZ was pretty trivial. We have used a sledgehammer to crack a nut and the cure has been worse than the disease (apologies for the mixed metaphors).

JosephJohnODonnell said...

The cpz is illegally raising revenue above the cost of running the cpz. This extension will be open to judicial review because of this. I am paying out hundreds of pounds a quarter on parking permits a quarter - I don't even have a car yet people can have a car all day every day for a fraction of the price I'm paying.

Brockley Nick said...

Well aren't we lucky that we don't have to put up with that. Most other places in zone 2 are more built up.

brockley westsider said...

No we don't. As Nick says, a Brockley CPZ wouldn't create space, just redistribute the problem. Longer-term, remove onstreet parking to create space for pedestrians, cycle tracks and to improve traffic flow, and create underground spaces for those willing to pay. That's how they do it in Switzerland.

anon said...

Difference of opinion I guess - your road obviously isn't affected. But I guess that's what this is about!

Corin Ashwell said...

I agree money isn't necessarily the best way to do it, maybe first-come first-served is better. But, can we factor in the elderly, disabled, people with children, all of whom would seem to have a better claim to using a car than the young able-bodied and child-free. And how about all those who don't have a car (apparently half the households in Ladywell) who might like to live somewhere that isn't totally jam-packed with them? Personally, I'd allocate parking using some kind of bi-annual lottery and restrict it to no more than half the available street space.

anon said...

Pretty much everywhere else in zone 2 London has this, for good reason - it's central London, not car and commuter-ville.

Algernonian said...

I used to live in Kew. Over there, they have a CPZ, but it's for one hour in the middle of the day on weekdays. This stops the commuter cars parking there. Could the same approach work in Ladywell? Obviously a shorter time should result in a lower cost. If the council really cared about anything other than raising money of course......

Befrazzled said...

I have to disagree with your point about kids. I live within the existing Ladywell CPZ. The first phase CPZ was introduced when I had a newborn, a 1 year old and a 2 year old and we were the first street outside the zone which meant that I could never get a parking spot within 5 minutes walk of the house. It was a huge hardship, given that we bought the house able to park on the street outside and overnight it changed. It was impossible when I had 3 sleeping babies and a car load of supermarket shopping to lug home. Now that they are all bigger and able to walk, it's no biggie but at the time it was hellish. Zone got extended and we were in it, but as you say, it just shifted the problem.

agt said...

So I pay to park in an area - not guaranteed to be outside my house or even in the same street - how is that fair? A CPZ should be designated street by street or not at all, like that's going to happen!!

rhymer said...

Cranfield and Harefield Roads are dreadful for parking in the week (and fine at weekends). The problem is commuters. I would love a CPZ.

anon said...

Yes please bring CPZ around Brockley Station!! Commuters has having a laugh driving from Kent and parking in Brockley. Holiday Van parked for months, and households with 3-4 cars they never use

Woman of Brockley said...

I wish there were fewer cars in London. This is Brockley Road in 1900. So much more spacious with no parked cars.

Nostalgia said...

That looks like a quiet day in 1900. There were a lot of horses. Mostly stabled at the back of houses. So many it led to a crisis about the noise and pollution they caused and the diseases that came with them. You see the roads covered in manure? With that was dust, flies and TB. It would have been awful. It developed into a crisis affecting many large cities.

That photo must predate the electric trams, there was a line going along Brockley Rd. They looked quite dinky.

http://brockleycentral.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/brockley-1910.html



Of course, if we had an integrated public transport service and an efficient home delivery system, people would not need so many cars and we would not be squabbling about who has first dibs on what parking space.

Jack said...

Quite a debate, but the CPZ is here now, so the best thing to do if you don't like it is to move out of the capital. Alternatively invent a time machine and go back to the days of a city without cars, where horses clip clop along the cobbles. Either approach would suit those of us living in the real world.

anon said...

but you do not live near the station nor on the west side.

parakeet said...

I live in the 'new' CPZ zone in Ladywell - and I can't for the life of me understand why Ladywell is so full of cretins that they think that having a 9am-7pm hours of operation is better than a simple two hour zone in the middle of the day. It is stupidity in it's purest unadulterated form and I am ashamed of my neighbours in Ladywell.

I'm alright said...

Real world?


I guess there is a school of thought that finds it comfortable to ignore everything outside a time frame that ignores the past and barely perceives the future.


Thank you for stopping by to tell us your thoughts on these things that do not interest you.

Brian said...

It's like a water balloon. Squeeze the balloon and the water has to go somewhere. CPZ is a bad idea.

THNick said...

Or move to Brockley, Honor Oak, Crofton Park, Nunhead or any number of other places in the unreal world without CPZs?

NAT said...

Many horses and no betting offices.
The past is a different country.

NAT said...

I see the roads with a bit of plop on them.
I don't see the evidence of more than a few hours worth of carriage. The stuff must have been worth collecting for someone.
Do horses spread TB ?
Perhaps they do, however 'delivery systems', no matter how efficient tend to block narrow roads, unless you mean domino pizza mobikes,which don't

NAT said...

I agree regarding the hour, or two hour stricture.Was this an option in the voting procedure?

paraquate said...

yes

anon said...

YEs we do

Moi said...

Couldn't agree more. Why on earth would people vote for the all-day option? It doesn't achieve anything that the 2-hour slot wouldn't achieve. I'd like to see the figures on the consultation - I don't actually believe that people chose the full-day restrictions. Lewisham council has never introduced the 2-hour CPZ anywhere, they've always gone for the full whack. Because they get more revenue this way? Meanwhile, the top half of Brookbank, where I live, seems to be the only road that was consulted that won't have a CPZ, which means that every man and his dog and all his guests and workmen will be parking in our road.

Brockley Nick said...

I lived very near the station for 7 years until about a year ago (even now, I'm no more than 300 yards from Brockley Station) The only parking problems I ever had were if I wanted to vacate a parking space early in the morning on a week day and try to park after the commuter traffic arrived. In those circumstances, I might have had to park 20 yards from my house. Annoying, yes. Hardship worth inflicting huge cost and bureaucracy on thousands of people through a CPZ? No.

Longtime Ladywell Resident said...

The CPZ was introduced on Algernon Road when I had very young kids. If this hadn't happened my life would have been a nightmare. I'm happy to pay to park near my house and in my view anyone who can afford the huge expense of having a car can afford another £120pa. This is London - like it or lump it! However, and importantly, in all the many CPZ/parking meetings I've attended over the years I've never heard anyone say they need or want an all-day CPZ. A couple of controlled hours during the middle part of the day would do the trick. Lewisham Council, however, seems be resisting this - which is odd given that other Councils are happy to do that.

moira said...

Fossil and Cliffview roads were also consulted and we said no too.

terrencetrentderby said...

You could always do what I've seen one of the scumbags on Revelon does and sit by your lounge window shouting at whoever parks in front of your house.

Cheap and effective.

terrencetrentderby said...

It's a slippery slope and typical of aggressive NIMBYism handled poorly by an ineffective council.

NAT said...

Alll too effective, it would appear, as the council coffers go kerrching, but then the ever capitalised nimbyism covers the whole gamut. CPZ ......nimbyism. Concerns about inappropriate development...nimbyism. Perhaps it would be good of you to let us know at this point, what vision you have for the future of your back yard.

pen and ink said...

You are perhaps unaware of the great horse manure crisis of 1894. Apparently the amount that was produced far exceeded the quantity of roses available for it be spread upon.


http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Great-Horse-Manure-Crisis-of-1894/

Headhunter said...

There was a huge manure crisis in Victorian London, literally tonnes of manure and waste on the streets with nowhere for it to go and no use for it. I read somewhere that part of the reason the houses of the wealthy were on higher ground to the west of London was because manure and effluent generally accumulates down by the river and subsequently flows into the river itself so the stink and pollution was awful...

Headhunter said...

This has been suggested a few times but it seems Lewiswham BC isn't interested. It's the full "sledgehammer" approach or nothing...

NAT said...

And yet we hear about 'night soil' being brought out from the city to manure the rhubarb beds hereabouts. Why I wonder, if horse manure was so readily available, was it thought nessecary to use its human equivalent.

anon said...

So we should concentrate the suffering on areas close to the station so everyone else is fine? Nice.

Mush said...

Definitely isn't interested, I've written to the council numerous times asking why the CPZ can't be a 10 to 12 cpz. They respond with garbage.

microchipper said...

I guess that would have been the case before the redoubtable Mr Bazalgette got to work creating the sewer system in the 1860s.


http://www.history.co.uk/study-topics/history-of-london/sir-joseph-bazalgette-and-londons-sewers



Victorian London would have been stinky and full of horse flies spreading disease, the air pollution from the smokey chimneys created 'pea souper' fogs that many people coughing and wheezing.


Presumably future generations will be appalled at what diesel and petrol exhaust pollution we put up with. And these rows about who has rights to what parking space.


One day every parking space and every car will be microchipped and every driver direct debited.

Headhunter said...

Indeed. If you read period fiction like Sherlock Holmes there are frequent references to pollution, grime, dirt, stinks etc. and this is post Bazalgette

terrencetrentderby said...

Not wanting people to park near your house is blatant nimbyism. It is also terrible neighbourly behaviour as it pushes the problem away to other streets.
Lewisham Council are rubbing their greasy palms together at the thought of ever more CPZs, these NIMBYs by climbing into bed with Tammany Hall have signed a pact with the devil.

terrencetrentderby said...

Walking down Revelon Road would be a whimsical trip down memory lane for any Victorian nostalgic yearning to see their path covered with manure once more. This road, this turd road will ensure you step on some form of dog manure at least once.

anon said...

As long as they don't park near your house? (which I am assuming is currently not inundated with commuter cars fighting for a car space each morning)?

Brockley Nick said...

Out of interest, if you live next to the station, then why do you need to find a parking spot in the morning?

anon said...

I don't - but I don't just park outside my house to use the station. It's impossible to find a parking space whenever you go out because the parking is so jammed when you return. It also effects when you need tradesmen, as well as deliveries, and also friends visiting. That's the point of cpz really, the idea is to give people around the area access to parking outside their house and visitor passes for when these are needed.

Max Calò said...

There's not only the parking issue though. I can only speak of my road, but a positive change that CPZ brought is that there is a lot less car traffic of lurkers going round in circles looking for a place to park and since it's not a very wide road there were also constant issues about who gives way to those coming in the opposite directions with sometimes angry confrontations (if you think motorist hate cyclist...). Now, my road was more affected by the vicinity of the hospital than stations so more a whole day issue rather than around peak times.

NAT said...

Not generally blamed on the horses though, is it?

anon said...

" I've never heard anyone say they need or want an all-day CPZ. A couple of controlled hours during the middle part of the day would do the trick. Lewisham Council, however, seems be resisting this "
EXACTLY THE POINT...Everyone I talk to says the same thing...

dougie said...

I think People really need to look at Chris,s blog here especially all the links he has provided too....it may open some of your eyes.... Lewisham Council are not telling the truth.
https://ladywellcpz.wordpress.com/

dougie said...

why is it then that they include the question in their consultation about other hours? They do not care...

dougie said...

Here,s the official report. The majority as a whole said no as was the 1st recommendation of the report but the council are still going ahead with it in the streets they said voted yes. There are a lot of unhappy residents still though especially as brookbank rd drycleaners started a NO TO THE CPZ PETITION and got 198 signatures none of which are mentioned in the report or appear on the graphs they printed. A lot of people who said NO do not believe the report is true.. Read it for yourselves. Please remember this though if you vote for it when it comes you will have it for 10 years before you can ask for a review.....Read this please
https://lewisham-consult.objective.co.uk/portal/cpz_new_ladywell

Anon said...

Chris Wheal is a local award winning journalist who wrote a blog and asked the council a lot of questions prior to the consultation. He was ignored by the council on every question. When Chris attended a meeting with Cllr Carl Hanley with other ladywell members at a council meeting he was more or less told by the very irrate councillor to stop protesting cos its coming anyway (the cpz)....that was before the consultation.... wo and behold it is coming , how did the councillor know that prior to the consultation? Please read his blog it affects you all....Facts...
https://ladywellcpz.wordpress.com/

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