Brockley's £10,000 question

Tuesday, 27th November, 8pm
George Lewis Room
St John’s Church
Lewisham Way
London
SE8 4EA

Next Tuesday, Brockley councillors Dean Walton, Darren Johnson and Romayne Phoenix will hold a community meeting to discuss the allocation of the Brockley Locality Fund - £10,000 of public money, which can be allocated to good causes in the Brockley area.

A shortlist has been drawn up from ideas submitted by local residents, some of which had their merits hotly debated here.

Cllr Dean Walton has provided Brockley Central with an advanced look at the list of projects, which is below. We've also created a new poll so that readers unable to attend the meeting can register their views online. We must stress that this is an unofficial poll and while we will pass on the results of the vote to the councillors before the meeting, it is obviously an unscientific sampling of the Brockley population (highly skewed towards towards the bored and office based!). However, the councillors will take the results in to consideration as part of the wider consultation process.

Here's the list in full:

1. Digicams for young people to report graffiti etc to Love Lewisham, with monthly prize and end-of-year exhibition

2. Fixed sports equipment on Tanners Hill Estate for children

3. Youth worker for Tanners Hill one night per week for a year

4. Street trees with metal railing guards

5. Contribution to Brockley Common

6. Clean up and secure garages in Vulcan Terrace

7. Picnic benches where young people can socialise, Pitman House

8. Improvements to Lewisham Way memorial gardens

9. Improvements to Veronica House Gardens

10. Solar panels installed at another local primary school

11. Contribution to Myatt Gardens playground fund

12. Contribution to Brockley Fun Run

13. Contribution to Brockley weekend arts festival

14. Equipment / storage space for planned after-school club for 5-11s

15. Contribution to Healthy Brockley Community Awards


The poll is on the right-hand side of this site. Please register your votes before the closing deadline of 5pm on Tuesday, to make your voice heard.

Our own, personal, criteria for where the money should go would be that it should support a project which wouldn't happen without some public funding, that it should support projects which benefit the widest possible number of people and it should leave some sort of tangible, lasting legacy. On that basis, we'd plump for street trees in planters on Brockley Road over projects like the Fun Run (nice idea) or Healthy Brockley (conflates eating vegetables with 'spiritual health'), which could be delivered without the need for any public money.

And "digicams" for kids? Doesn't every child have a mobile phone before it gets its first tooth these days? And isn't the whole point of the Love Lewisham project is that it's made reporting graffiti and fly tipping really easy and quick for any one (yes, even adults) , without the need to spend council tax money on consumer electronics?

Anyway, to whomever came up with that idea, they will be pleased to know that (despite referring to ourselves in the plural) we only have one vote, same as everyone else.

Happy voting!

132 comments:

Anonymous said...

Digital cameras so youths can report street litter and graffitti? Who are these buffoons that come up with these ideas? They need a good happy slap.

Anonymous said...

I'm Surprised nobody has added "Support your Local Deli" as #16.

andy pandy pudding & pie said...

Street trees with metal railings get my vote, but it depends on what street? (hopefully somewhere where people will notice).

Monkeyboy said...

Think someone else suggested this before? And probably too late for consideration but how about painting the bridge? It's been done before, see link.....

http://www.24dash.com/localgovernment/29416.htm

Anonymous said...

I agree with Nick & anonymous. Free digital cameras for kids to report graffitti????????????????????????????????? What a bunch of donkeys.

I can just imagine the grin on the kids face when he receives his brand spanking new Sony. They will be laughing all the way home. He might even have time to take a few snaps for the monthly prize!

The rest of the ideas are quite good and I will be casting my vote on the poll. I will also be making a trip down to the Council to sign up to Love Lewisham...I'm thinking that maybe I can convince them that there would be some travel involved in taking these pictures and therefore we would need to be provided with a car each.

Anonymous said...

I walk past the Ladbroke Grove bridge everyday, and when I first saw this i was quite impressed -and did wonder if it would be viable for Brockkers - however, the paint job is not what makes the bridge. In fact the paint job is a bit naff. It's the lighting - The bridge has been kitted out with VERY bright (almost daylight temperature) lights. At this time of year the effect is that when you walk under bridge after work you are walking through a much better lit area than the street itself, so it make you feel fairly safe.
I would be for this in principle in brockley but wonder how long before the lights are broken, etc. A paint job on it's own though wouldn't be enough.

Brockley Jon said...

I'm all for doing something with that bridge. The pics look great.

It's important to point out that no one particular person at the council or Green Party has come up with these ideas (such as the mobiles for kids). It's more likely an idea put to them by a local resident like yourselves, and everyone is entitled to put forward their suggestions - so please folks, play gentle (that includes you, Nick ;).

And no, it wasn't my idea...

Brockley Nick said...

Just to clarify, there is no room for new suggestions now - the selected projects will be chosen from the existing list of 15.

Anonymous said...

I've noticed that some people are voting for Brockley Common, but isn't Brockley Common is already getting money? - about £100,000, so adding another ten would be a waste. Lets hopes it goes somewhere else - I like trees idea.

James said...

£10k is getting you very few trees when you take into account the costs involved (ripping up the pavement, maintainance etc).

The fun-run? Seriously? Why not give the money direct to charity in that case??

If it were up to me, I'd split it between the arts festival amd a quick tidy-up of the Lewisham Way gardens (for all of us on the St John's side of the Conservation Area).

However, I think we'll end up with half-a-dozen trees on Tresillian Road in between all the wheelie bins.

Dave said...

If the street trees are in planters then presumably they won't need digging-up-of-the-pavement.

Out of the list of ideas, I think they offer the best legacy from the investment.

Anonymous said...

Am i the only one who thinks that street trees with metal railings is a waste? There are already heaps of street trees in Brockley and a nice common would be lovely!

Anonymous said...

I would prefer steet signage welcoming people to Brockley which to me would give the place some definition and increase awareness of our little enclave xx

Anonymous said...

What happened the Brockley Max festival??????????

Anonymous said...

Anonymous RE: The COMMON

The common IS getting done. With another pot of money!

leenewham said...

I'm a tad dissappointed. None of the suggestions really seem to be solving real problems. I voted for the trees, but I agree with the other posting; it wont buy many, they are expensive to maintain and as much as I love trees, I'd rather they do somthing about the eye sores like the recycling bins outside the post office, ugly roller shutters that encourage grafitti or new railing for the high street.

The first suggestion of the digicams is possibly the oddest suggestion.

Kate said...

In light of the original aims of the fund, I voted for the Tanners Hill estate sports equipment, but it's not really clear what 'fixed sports equipment' means (goalposts?!) and I don't know enough about the different problems and needs each particular estate has, so it could quite well be that there's another estate in Brockley that needs it more.

If anything to do with the Brockley Cross bridge had been on the list, I'd have voted for that (though I don't know how well it fits into the original aims, which if I recall correctly were about encouraging kids to do sports, weren't they?)

Brockley Nick said...

It's likely that the money will be split between a number of causes.

I agree that the bridge is an eyesore and it would be good to think creatively about how to improve it - perhaps that could be the next major project once the Common is completed?

Theresa Green said...

I think the trees are a great idea!Are you applying under the 'crime and disorder' category? As they have been fantastic for providing hiding places and coverage for the kids, esp on firework night and they are sure to provide a wonderful addition to the open spaces. (Oh! Forgot you want to put them on a street!) But then maybe your applying under the activities for kids as watching trees grow will keep them amused for years!

Search4Banksie said...

I think the painting of the bridge could be done without public money. The SSK's have offered to come over and spray it for free, with various local artists such as 'KIPS' offering their time, free of charge.

Anonymous said...

To reply to the post as to what's happening to the B Max festival: It will probably be in a smaller form this year as I have stepped down. As a 9 day festival I had to find funding in the region of £15,000 each year to cover essential costs. The festival would never have happened (nor will it this year) without getting funding - and if you've ever tried to fill in funding applications you'll know what an onerous task this is! and one that has to be done by the end of each December. Last year the Brockley and Ladywell localities fund each gave £500 which was of enormous help and I didn't have to fill in endless forms.
Nor would it have happened without the many volunteers giving their time, nor myself, who spent 1 day a week for 9 months, and 2 days a week for 3 months every year on the project.
Judging by the lack of interest in the weekend arts festival on this blog, maybe the B Max has had its day?
Moira

Brockley Nick said...

@Theresa
I'm not quite sure who your comments are directed at? The list is one drawn up by the councillors based on suggestions from local people so each of the ideas has already been judged valid for consideration. And one of the main themes they initially described the money should be for was "improving the physical environment", which is exactly what they would do.

@Moira, I don't think the current vote reflects a lack of support for the MAX - for one thing, if "weekend arts festival" meant the Brockley MAX, it should have said so as I for one wasn't clear that that's what was meant. Also, I think people are probably using the vote to express support for new ideas, in the belief that there has already been a clear demonstration of community support for projects like the MAX and the Common.

There has already been a lot of support and willingness to volunteer shown on this forum, so I hope the MAX has a future.

Anonymous said...

Nick
One of the biggest problems running events like a festival is financial sustainability. Most funding streams will not give to the same project two years running. I spent alot of my time having to research new funding sources and being very creative in my funding applications! The localities fund is one source that does not state that they will not repeat fund.
You can have as much community support as you like, but without the cash, festivals such as the B Max don't happen.
Moira

Brockley Nick said...

Moira, I don't dispute any of that I just mean that I don't believe the poll reflects a lack of support for funding the MAX.

Anonymous said...

Theresa your snide remarks have only exposed your ignorance - environment is entirely related to crime.

Anonymous said...

'Conflates' - now that's a good word. Must confess I had to look it up in the dictionary. I wonder why you think there's a problem with taking a holistic approach to health and if you've ever been to a Healthy Brockley event.

You seem to have the strange notion that community initiatives and events can happen without funding - as Moira picks up in your comments about Brockley Max. Some of these proposals may happen without the support of the Localities Fund but only if the organisers can find the money elsewhere.

Andy Thomas (Healthy Brockley)

Brockley Nick said...

Andy
I've already made clear that I recognise and support the need for the MAX to get funding, so that's a disingenuous point.

And disingenuousness is my complaint about Healthy Brockley. It's a recruitment exercise for Brockley Community Church, which I don't think taxpayers should have to pay the bills for.

Leaving aside the fact that religious faith has nothing to do with health (I'm all for an holistic approach to health - eat well, exercise, examine yourself frequently - all good ideas) I think if you want to expand your flock, it should be at your own expense.

Perhaps you could explain what you need the money for and why the church can't meet these costs itself? I'd also be interested to understand why we need an event to give basic information that is found in books, newspapers, magazines, through the NHS, on television and radio and widely available on the internet and why this is more important than supporting the MAX, improving our main road, providing sports equipment for local children and so on?

I'd happily publish your article, because this site is a broad church.

Headhunter said...

It would be shame to lose Brockley Max and I for one would be happy to help in any way I can, obviously as long as I can fit it round the 50+ hour working week.... No experience getting funding though.

I note that the street trees are getting the majority of the vote for the use of the £10k which I find a bit strange. Surely this is something the council provide anyway? Since I have lived on Manor Ave they have cut back some of the larger trees and seem to have replaced older trees in the past, although they chopped one down about a year back and the stump still remains

Anonymous said...

I think trees are good provided they get used on Brockley's disgusting main drag. I know the money is being used for something on that list but it's clear that certain areas need addressing, like the brockley road towards the bridge. If the trees are planted down that end than it will improve the look and feel of that area.

nature lover said...

Nick,
FYI-"improving the physical environment",
was never a theme
so if you need to quote please do it precisely
activities for young people
•improving our parks & open spaces
•tackling crime & anti-social behaviour
Brockley rd is not a open space, on which trees will require maintance, will grow to large and destroy the pathway and have to be chopped down,all at considerable cost to the tax payer.
Planters also do not constrain to the themes unless you have some ants applying

Anonymous said...

Good points, here. I think its vital that the money is used for something that is over and above what the council is there to do anyway -- not to subsidize things that the Highways dept should be covering. This isn't, 'what should the council tackle next'; it is, 'what is ADDITIONAL to what the council is there to do for us'. By my criteria, Brockley Max, and the youth workers are really strong candidates. But maybe I've misunderstood. Could a councillor -- Dean, Sue -- clarify?

Brockley Nick said...

@Nature Lover
Sorry that the quote was a not a direct one, but putting trees in planters in public places, such as areas of the high street that need jollying up surely qualifies as "improving our parks & open spaces"? Certainly the councillors seem to think so, as it's their list, not mine. If it didn't meet their criteria, then they wouldn't have included it. In any case, I don't think they were ever meant to be hard and fast rules.

No one is talking about digging up the pavement to plant trees, they are talking about small trees, easily cared for by volunteers, in large planters. See the earlier thread for the debate on that topic.

If you think the money should be spent in another way, please go along to the meeting and put your points across. This is an unofficial poll.

Andrew Brown said...

anonymous @ 11:48

I completely understand (and would endorse) the desire to not allow the money to be used to shore up budget shortfalls in mainstream services

But of course the money is mainstream council money, just not committed to a particular service budget.

You might also want to reflect that there are council budgets for youth services and for supporting the Arts.

While I won't be voting - living down the road in the Greater Brockley area ie Ladywell - I'd like to try to make a defense of the cameras for young people suggestion. It seems to me that we if we only perceive of young people as a social problem (as some of the comments here seem to) they'll be more likely to live down to that expectation.

As many young people are as concerned about their local environment as adults, perhaps more so given they don't have as much access to other social spaces as we do. Many dislike the fly tipping and tagging as much as I do, and providing them with the means of helping the council combat the (adults) that make a mess of our streets seems perfectly reasonable.

Anonymous said...

Andrew Brown, I don't perceive young people as a social problem but the idea to give kids cameras is so bad I cannot express my view here to it's full extent without being banned for using foul and abusive language.

If the council want to run with that idea, they can set up the competition anyway. Let the kids use their own camera's, mobile phones, etc.

Ed said...

I remember some interesting comments on the use of trees/greenery/flowers to alter perceptions of an area that had a proven influence on crime i.e. reducing it. An example was given. Does anyone recall this? As this touches on both the listed aims and the unofficial poll suggests trees are very popular surely we should be talking about this?

Ed

a nony mouse said...

I think Jackie and 'gary' are both off-track.. I agree with Jackie's approach of engaging with young people with trust and respect. However - and this is experience talking, not just cynicism - this kind of intervention only works with a TON of (expensive) support around it. Drop a bunch of desireable and expensive technology on kids, and without guidance (eg from a youth worker) they will use it in unintended ways. Who wouldn't?

Jackie's suggestion relies on a series of complex assumptions holding true. If it were as easy as airlifting £10K of kit onto kids, we'd have no youth disaffection (much less graffiti) in this country. That's why I'm voting for the youth worker -- these are skilled people who can make really positive things happen, with or without expensive kit. No there's not much tangible to show for it in the end (like a tree or hanging basket) but some outcomes are less tangible than others -- it doesn't mean they aren't worth paying for.

Andrew Brown said...

@ a nony mouse

I can't speak for Jackie but I'd be surprised if the idea was to use the whole £10k on providing kit.

The advantage I see in terms of it being provided (rather than using their own) is that it sets up a contract between the council and the user. It's also something that can be monitored - you don't use it you loose it. As for unintended use, I think I'd be tempted to take the risk.

All of this said, I do agree about the value of youth work.

Cllr Dean Walton said...

Dear All,

A few points:

(1) From memory only one of the projects has requested the full £10,000 - the others are for a far more modest amount of cash from £250 upto £5000. The three of us also reserve the right to offer less than has been applied for.

The conclusion is that of the projects listed, it is likely that more than one of them will be supported.

(2) All of the projects have been suggested by local residents or have come to us via our casework. Before any project is funded we have attempted to verify if there are any 'pots of money' available in other Lewisham budgets - at the moment the conclusion is there are none.

(3) We have tried to encourage people to use the money in conjuction with other sources of funding so as to 'multiply' the money available. However if a project is well-funded from other sources then that will of course become one of the factors that we'd like to consider when making a decision.

(4) Do have a look at www.lovelewisham.org.

(5) Fixed sports equipment on Tanners Hill Estate comes from a collection of bids for basketball posts & the like.

(6) The public meeting will allow us all to discuss the projects, with these comments and the results of the public vote, costs of the projects etc and reach hopefully a considered conclusion.

(7) The three Councillors have already agreed outside of this process to allocate £250 towards the lighting for the Brockley Christmas Market. We agreed to this request as the sum involved was relatively small and a decision was needed urgently by the BXAG to allow for preparations for the market to be held on 1 December 2007.

Pete said...

With regards trees, why don't we as a community contact the trees for cities people to see if they can help us?

http://www.treesforcities.org/html/aboutus/faq/

Anonymous said...

Jackie, surely some children will be excluded anyway as soon as the full complement of cameras has been allocated. The result is - is that not every child in Lewisham will be able to take part. Or are you specifically going to give the cameras to impoverished children?

I also don't understand what this plan hoping to achieve? Is the council using the borough's children to do it's job for them? Or does it think that this some kind of incentive that will keep the kids on the straight and narrow? What does the phrase 'engaging with the ward' mean? Can somebody tell me the scheme goals and then I might 'get it'?

Anonymous said...

How are the young people selected? Brockley X (cross) factor?
i might be on to something there.

Anonymous said...

We should be trying to replicate Hither Green's success. Take a look a what the community achieved with their trees and planters, etc.

http://www2.lewisham.gov.uk/lbl/documents/News/LewishamLife/Dec05/09-changing-blooms.pdf

Andrew Brown said...

anon @ 16:56

FUSS (the Hither Green group) are an excellent example to follow. I did quite a lot of work with them in the run up to their successful London in Bloom bid a few years ago.

They raised a fair bit of their own money as well as ruthlessly exploiting their relationships with the council and Glendale (getting the local area manager to put up the window boxes on a Saturday morning) for all they were worth.

Brockley Nick said...

Jackie, I think the aim of encouraging kids to play a positive role in their local community is laudable, but this still seems like a very odd scheme to me.

By all means encourage kids to report vandalism, etc - give them a number to call or an email address to contact (every kid has access via their school). If you have to bribe them with mobiles, then it doesn't sound like civic duty is their primary driver. We all can and should report problems via Love Lewisham, which is a great scheme already.

As for the comment that "not street will get a tree", that's a rather misleading comment, since the trees would be in areas that we all use. By improving places like Brockley Road, we will benefit everyone.

andy pandy pudding & pie said...

the big problem that i have with giving out mobiles/camaeras to kids is that out of the kids who ARE going to put them to good use, it will be the ones who actually dont need to be made to feel 'inclusive' in the first place. (i.e. there will always be bad and good kids and a whole spectrum in between, the bad will not respond to this type of scheme in the way we want them to only the good kids - for which the target resource is not needed because they are good).

I hope this makes sense. Lets all go and hug a tree instead.

Anonymous said...

Nick, I wonder where you get your information about Healthy Brockley as it doesn't bear any relation to what I know about it. We've never tried to hide the fact that it is a project that has come out of Brockley Community Church - it's on all of the publicity that we put out. There is no way however that it is a recruitment exercise and I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who has been to an event that comes away with that impression

BCC sees itself (like many other churches and community groups) as having a role to play in helping to make Brockley a better place to live and Healthy Brockley is part of our contribution. Again ask the people that attend the events why they don't just want to get information in the way that you describe. At least part of it I would suggest is because they want more than just a virtual community. I've never suggested that Healthy Brockley is more important than B Max, which our church has actively supported over the years.

Your description of holistic health focusses on physical health. Holistic health suggests that mind body and spirit all have a part to play. Actually there's even evidence that going to church has a postive impact on your health but that is beside the point as I've made it clear that this is not our objective.

One final point is that the funding that I've put a bid in for is not for us to run the health promotion events. It would be a contribution towards setting up (along with other local organisations, a community award event that would recognise and celebrate the contribution made by individuals to making Brockley a better place to live. You might even find yourself nominated!

I will try to write an article for you some time as you suggest. It would be good to debate some of these issues in more detail.

Andy Thomas

Brenda said...

It was never going to be a fair poll seeing as it is on a brockley cross supporters site and they are running it.
£10,000 on planters and trees for trash to be dropped into; get some blue bins from the council they are free.
Dean maybe you should use the lewisham council site where people are not basis.

Brenda

Brenda said...

anonymous
why are all you people in Brockley cross anonymous do you not stand by your convictions because if you believe in your proclamations you would be proud to put your name to them.

Brenda

Anonymous said...

So many things to say yet so little energy at this time of night. I will have a bash none the less because the comment re the digicams has touched a nerve.

Jackie Millar: I am very sorry to be rude, but I stand by my previous comment...involving mules. Is this the best idea that the council and youth workers are able to come up with to include the young people of Brockley in their community? Why aren't the kids given a few paint brushes and get together to repair the damage instead? Surely this would be a more inclusive and ultimately more helpful and engaging activity. But no, let's give them mobile phones and digicams instead. Actually, lets go one better and offer them opportunity to win a monthly prize! While we'll at it we'll throw in a yearly exbition of the photos!!! Am I the only one that sees a massive conflict here?? What is the competition going to reward? The quality of the photo? the lighting? the angle? or is the competition going to focus on the grafitti itself? Maybe the young people of Brockley could find the new Banksey. I am not condescending towards the kids of Brockley, I am condescending towards such a bad idea. If we are only to be given a choice of 15 possibilities for the 10 grand, then I just want to say that I am hugely disappointed that this very poor and short sighted idea made the cut. That's all.

Anonymous said...

Brenda,
I'm not from Brockley Cross, I don't live anywhere near it, I just know a good idea when one is put forward and can see the bigger picture. Perhaps you too should show a little altruism, stop banging on about things being unfair and do something for the wider community, not what's just up your street.

Mike. C

andy pandy pudding & pie said...

I agree, i studied the economics of social behaviour whilst doing my postgrade and i have never come across any economic evidence in any academic journals to suggest that this camera/digicams idea would work.

it's complete tosh and certainly not founded in any economic reality to suggest society would have a net benefit from this.

Monkeyboy said...

Blimey, poor old nick. lets everyone know that there is £10k up for grabs and informs people that there will be a forum to discuss where it will go. What do we see? whinging!

If your REALLY that bothered then go to the meeting and debate with the decision makers. I would but I'm worming the dog that night.

Bsck to food, Dandelion Blue has got it's sign up.

Brockley Nick said...

Brenda, I don't know what a "Brockley Cross supporters site" is ("Come on you roundabouts!"), but I know this isn't one. Why would you think it preferable to host a vote on a site which covers the whole of Lewisham, rather than one which is specifically targeted at Brockley?

There is nothing stopping anyone who wants to organise a poll of their own from doing it. As I have said countless times, this is an unofficial poll.

tanners hill sue said...

I was sent this link by cllr Walton, I am not sure why as I am not a member of the Brockley cross action group? I'm confused,
are the Brockley cross people choosing where the money goes? So the meeting on Tuesday is just to announce the results of this poll?
Seems a bit biasd to me, as lots of people dont use this site. I have never heard of it before and dont use it.

troubleshooter said...

Nick as you do not know what a brockley cross action group site is let me refreash you on the posting you made on this site

Brockley Nick said...
Let's just say that I have travelled the world, but found nowhere so fair as Brockley.

As for the meet-up suggestion, it's a nice idea at some point - although I think Lewisham's online community is still nursing its head from Friday's bloggers get-together. The Brockley Cross Action Group meetings are worth coming along to and I will post up details of the next meeting soon.

23 April 2007 10:02

think tanners hill sue has a point
the brockley cross poll for trees LOL

Anonymous said...

I think there's some confusion over this money:

The £10K is not a one-off - the Councillors in each Ward had the same sum last year provided by Lewisham Council's Locality Fund - and our Councillors (Dean, Darren & Romaine) spent it on providing solar energy for a couple of primary schools within the Ward. Presumably there'll be a similar amount next year.

I don't know how they made the decision last year, but I suspect the purpose of advertising the debate on this website is to reach a wider audience of people who live and work in the Ward, not to exclude anyone who doesn't live in Brockley (which covers more than one Ward).

The money is to be spent to improve the electoral ward of Brockley, which also includes part of New Cross - so if Dean, Darren & Romaine are your local Councillors, the money covers the area you live in - for everyone else it just covers the area you work in or pass through....

The Ward as a whole suffers a great deal of crime and anti-social behaviour, and the local environment is generally quite ugly - so that's where the Councillors are aiming the spending

Youth crime and disorder are huge issues in our Ward (although some areas suffer more from adult disorder) and there is little public funding available to deal with it - although various initiatives such as the Safer Neighbourhoods police team are working hard to deal with it and beginning to get results.

Therefore my vote goes to youth facilities, either as equipment or properly supervised activities eg youth clubs etc which are accessible to and used by as many as possible (sorry Jackie, not cameras), particularly in 'hotspots' in the north of the Ward.

Lois

Brockley Nick said...

Hi tanners hill sue, welcome to the site, I hope you will become a regular user. This site is run by two people, myself and jon, who are just local residents, trying to keep people. informed about stuff going on in brockley. This includes, but is certainly not limited to, the work of the bxag or bmax. There is a bxag site, but this is not it. Neither jon or I are members, although I have been to one of their meetings and was impressed with what I heard. The site gets a lot of readers from across brockley, so we felt a poll would be a useful way of canvassing opinion and spreading the word about the meeting next week. I certainly. feel it has done that part of its job well! Dean obviously wanted to encourage as many people to vote as possible and emailed you so you can register your vote too. Having said that, the poll is unofficial and although the results of the survey will be taken into account, they will only form a small part of the consultation process.
Hope that clears things up.

Monkeyboy said...

Ahhh...it's al becoming clear now. Nick is part of a conspiracy to divert money to some evil corporate tree pedlar.

While I'm on Nick would you like to explain where you we're on the night Princess Diana 'died'?

Tamsin said...

Obviously on a grassy knoll...

Monkeyboy said...

What is a knoll anyway? Perhaps we need one on brockers?

andy pandy pudding & pie said...

i thought a knoll was a type of rodent bad guy that they have in world of warcraft online.
*ahem*

Anonymous said...

i think the photo idea is very stupid. go out and buy ya own phones dont use the council money which is for making our neighbourhood a better place, that idea is a total, complete waste of money, the kids will soon lose interest and u will probably end up spending the money urself, in my opinion the money should be spent on more productive things. it should be a group decision and i dont think u should be in charge at all UR NUTS

Monkeyboy said...

I think the last anonymous has had too much expresso.

1) It is a group decision taken by the councelors etc. Who we all vote for, that's 'democracy' look in up on Google.
2) It's one of many suggestions, I suspect it will not be the winner but who knows.
3) if you feel that strongly pop along to the meeting and put your finely crafted argument to them.

andy pandy pudding & pie said...

monkeyboy, no humour in your last comment - i'm very disappointed :oP

Dave said...

I agree with monkey boy there, seems to be some excess drinking of expresso from that last anonymous, great English though!
Do you think they are voting for the 3's? Sorry I mean trees!

Anonymous said...

It's great to see so many local residents passionately debating the use of these funds.

I beleive that many of the causes on the list are worthwhile but we must remember two key factors...
That the money should benefit the environment for the broadest range of people possible whilst leaving a physical improvement to our community year after year.

This is not a straightforward task with only £10,000 to spend so it's important that the money is not overly diluted across diferent projects to the extent that no benefits are seen at all.

After reading all the views and comments, in my opinion the one project which would improve the lives of every member of this community now and for the generations ahead is Street Trees... assuming of course that they are planted where there is currently a lack of greenery (ie on the main road between Brockley Cross and the old Home View shop) and not along a quiet residential street within the conservation area!

More trees will not only soften the ugly road which runs through our community but also improve air quality for all.

Harry.

Kate said...

Totally agree with what Lois said. Which is why I voted for the sports equipment - my assumption was that the local councillors would know where the best place for such equipment would be, where the need for it is and so forth.

Sports equipment provides a location for kids to gather and something for them to do other than just hanging around on the streets annoying people and feeling aimless and pissed off, as happens on my street very regularly. Nobody is happy with the current provisions for kids, let alone the kids themselves. A Digicam makes no difference to where they can go on a chilly Friday evening.

And, if Brockley was to collectively win the lottery, some kind of youth venue would be great too.

Anonymous said...

give the money to a charity that needs it!

Mr Y said...

I take it the sports equiptment is indoors then?nice and warm
where they can go on a chilly Friday evening.
Or is it outside where they can vandalise and spray paint it or use it to gather on and cause a nuisance, the sort of play stuff you are thinking of will not attract teenagers to play nicely wake up!change your vote for something worthwhile

Anonymous said...

yes i agree, we need to think about this, this 10k is not to be wasted on something kids can vandalise, ruin, or just not use, the money should be split into different causes...

1) environmental
2) youths
3) appearance
so on....

im pretty sure we all would like an area to be proud of? yes well lets not waste the money on digi cams and things like that but lets, re-furbish parks for youths and plant trees with nice railings,and repaint graffitied building, bridges and walls. also lighting, to light up the streets make our area safer, brighter more attract and all round a better place to live.

Anonymous said...

Has Jackie hijacked the poll or do people actually believe that the digicam twoddle is a good idea? Reading through the comments, it doesn't seem to have too much support yet has inexplicably pushed itself into second place? Surely youth workers is a more viable proposition ...

Brockley Nick said...

I suspect one or two ideas have secured some bloc votes, but that's fair enough, I suppose...

It would be nice to hear from some of those who do believe it's a good idea though, as I haven't found Jackie's arguments particularly convincing.

andy pandy pudding & pie said...

I wouldn't be surprised if a particular person who posted comments in favour of digicams moaned at their mates about this site and got them to register their votes!

The site administrator should compare the votes to when the comments were posted, i bet there was a 'sudden rush' after a particular persons comments - good old fashion curruption, or should i say 'postive discrimination the back door way'! If democracy doesnt work, then go ahead anyway.

Anonymous said...

Vote 4 Digicams. best idea out of 'em all. Why is every1 voting 4 Street Trees it's the most stupidest thing i have ever heard of.
By a local teen from the Brockley Cross.
VOTE 4 DIGICAMS

Anonymous said...

How is putting railing around trees more important than looking after the community. Digicams is gonna help the community and the kids get a proper future. if kids wanna be stupid, there gonna get caught, so if they have any sense they wont. Which means keepin the community. Plus if the kids get caught all the criminals will be caught soon enough.
By a local teen from the Brockley Cross.
VOTE 4 DIGICAMS

Anonymous said...

This is cracking me up. I can picture Jackie now at her keyboard pretending to be various people supporting the digicam project. I told my son about this idea and he laughed his head off. He thinks it's ridiculous too and he's 13.
He's absolutely, positively sure that giving him or his mates cameras would definitely give them focus and drive, and they definitely wouldn't get bored of the project after 1 day and they certainly have lots of time to take part too because they don't get much homework and anyway another adult driven task is just what he wants to do in his spare time and there are not many things as exciting to do in the borough than take photo's of litter, so bring it on Jackie, you certainly know your onions, forget X Box, PS3 or Wii's, I know what the kids want this Christmas, and if it keeps the streets safe too them we're all laughing, we are all literally laughing our heads off, ha, ha, ha.....
DANIEL. K

Anonymous said...

Don't vote 4 street trees. It's not like it will be done on every street in brockley. Anyway, it would look funny and nasty if you was walking down the street and all you saw, was fences around all the trees. We should be making the community look good. Not a new kind of circus town.
By a local teen from the Brockley Cross.
VOTE 4 DIGICAMS

Anonymous said...

Actually, i'm not jackie i heard about this site from a friend and i thought i would help vote. at least i am trying to help the community, unlike others. how is street trees meant to help any1 itis ridiculous.
By a local teen from the Brockley Cross.
VOTE 4 DIGICAMS

Anonymous said...

Give those kids another digicam, they sound disenfranchised!

Although, they all have internet access on a Sunday, so perhaps they don't need free stuff to be able to report litter ;)

Mr Iam41yearsoldandhaveseensomelitterpleasecanihaveafreedigicamasifeelalienated

Monkeyboy said...

I'm waiting for the 'THIS IS SO UNFAIR!' before the sound of teens across brockley storming off to their bedrooms and playing with the X-Stations or whatever those 'young adults' do these days.

Can we just give them ten grands worth of glue? should shut them up for a while.

Oh cheer up, I'm only kidding!!

Can we talk about something else now? I'm bored.

andy pandy pudding & pie said...

yeah, back to my bengal kittens. There are now more like cats now. The younger one still keeps wee'ing on my bed, why is this? Is it because it loves me?

Anonymous said...

Sorry Homyz but I is not down wiv ya sayin' dat we is dissin' ya yeah. I fink it iz well good dat use is here. Respec' & all dat.
Welcum 2 da site. Big up.

Joking aside...I think it is great to see that young people are getting involved in their community. And guys, we weren't disrespecting you. We were merely voicing our opinion that this is perhaps not the best way to spend a significant amount of money which is available to help better our community. Please tell me that there is no alternative means that you guys could use to flag up new grafitti and I will happily concede that this is in fact a more worthwhile project than youth workers or making the high street a more welcoming place. However, I think, between all of you, someone has a mobile phone with a camera? Or dare I say it, a pen and paper that you could use to write down where you have seen the grafitti?
I think the point is, those of you who would put these cameras to good use are those that would quite easily find an alternative means of reporting the grafitti. The fact that you are all aware of who to contact in such instances just shows that you are doing more than us "peeps" in this respect. God and I'm only 24! The discussion on this blog has probably done as much or more to help with the grafitti problem than giving out digicams as there will be 50+ people who will now be aware that there is a quick and efficient way of reporting unwanted art on the streets of Brockley. Perhaps it could be a launch pad for a bigger campaign, maybe starting with you guys getting together and writing an article for the blog or love lewisham? you could point out hotspots for grafitti and how we can go about tackling it? & uz da spellck yeah.

I think the overriding feeling from those who post on this site is that they would like to see that there is some form of legacy from the project, ie. that it is something that can make a difference now but can also be enjoyed in years to come. I had originally proposed quirky street signs but the idea didn't get much support apparently. Although now I wish I had rallied round the lighting under the bridge idea, as I think it could have really made a feature out of what is currently a bit of an eyesore. I would have also voted for an idea that would eradicate those f****** pidgeons. No more walking through wades of pidgeon crap or being hit by lazer guided turds. What joy.

And before I go. Andy Pandy: when your cat pisses on your bed...never good.
James

Anonymous said...

on 24th november 2007 12.58
brockley nick said;

Brenda, I don't know what a "Brockley Cross supporters site is"

on 20th april 2007,on this blog,
Brockley nick said in regards to the site;

It is designed to help promote the work of groups such as the Brockley Cross Action Group, BrockleyMAX who are doing great work for Brockley.

no favouritism over the north of the borough then? may also explain the block 29 votes for trees, the poll opened with,and why the youth projects are getting no votes, despite the ward crying out for youth activities, why was the poll not put on lewisham council site
cllr Walton?

Anonymous said...

Anon, why do people like you keep talking as if the trees have to be for the exclusive benefit of brockley cross? You could put some in areas in the north too! And does anyone know if the trees have got anything to do with the brockley cross group anyway?
Plus, if you put the poll on the lewisham website, it would have got about three votes! And probably from people outside the ward.

Cllr Dean Walton said...

Dear All,

Just a reminder that we, as your local Councillors, have a duty to consult with the local community on how we spend the £10,000 allocated to the Brockley Localities Fund.

As part of this year's consultation I decided to see if this blog could have a role in this - the contributors to this blog had shown a clear interest in the scheme when it was first promoted - from memory about 100 comments were received - from the not so useful 'use the £10k to reduce the the Council's £30M debt' to the 'plant some trees in Brockley'.

The final decision will be taken shortly after Tuesday's meeting when we'll be considering the actual application forms, the presentations made by any people who turn up, comments from Lewisham's Officers on the likely cost of the projects etc. Clearly we'll also look to the poll and blog comments - but the blog are clearly stated to be 'unofficial'. It is interesting to note that at this stage there are two projects that are coming ahead of the rest -'Street Trees' & 'Digicams'.

However to be sure that the comments are as useful as possible, can I request that people (especially 'anonymous ones') stick to evaluation and genuine comment on the pros & cons of the various projects put up by local residents.

Thanks

Dean

Pete said...

Surely the council aren't going to make their decision based purely on the way people have voted on here? The population of Brockley is much bigger than the 100+ who have voted in this poll.

As for all of those writing in txt speak I can be pretty sure that it is one person writing and I bet it isn't Jackie and I bet it isn't a kid.

Brockley Nick said...

@Pete, no they won't, it's just a helpful indicator, which has allowed the councillors to canvas opinion far more widely than in the past. If anyone has any suggestions for how I can make that any clearer, please let me know.

Jackie said...

Pete,

thats right it was'nt jackie,
GOOGLE'LOVE LEWISHAM' and see we were over BROCKLEY CROSS reporting the flytip and litter hope we have improved your environment a little for you all today, thats how the project works.

Brockley Nick said...

@Jackie, there's also a link to Love Lewisham on this site. It's a great service.

Brenda said...

Nick,
in regards to the love lewisham link;
why did the people on site not use it then, were they to busy writing abusive comments to children ?
such as the glue comment,
This is a terrible site I cannot believe the green cllrs have put childrens projects on here for comment, with the abusive onslaught.
like we said before the youths have a lot to give esp manners

Anonymous said...

'Brockley's £10k question' seems to be rapidly turning into 'Brockley's £10k camera give away question'!

It's difficult to find a legible comment on this board that put a persuasive argument in favour of this scheme. What is clear is that a large number of people are very opposed to it - not because they don't care about the kids, but simply because they don't think it will work.

When you compare the lack of positive support for this idea (and the number of positive posts containing exactly the same phrases) with the number of votes it has received it is apparent that someone is trying to rig the results. I hope this is taken on board by whoever takes the final decision on how the money is used.

For what it's worth I would love to see the Brockley arts scene get more funding - it's one of the ways that this area will get a more positive reputation, thus attracting longer term investment and regenerating the whole area.

John S

Chris Houston said...

Our street had trees, but they were almost all removed and had the earthy patches tarred-over a few months ago.

Monkeyboy said...

I think you'll find that kids have a very healthy, ireverent sense on humour. I expect that many of their comments were intended to wind up pompous adults - a worthy enterprise in my opinion.

alley said...

the children are our futher this is where the money needs to go

Anonymous said...

....as I say, legible comments.

John S

Anonymous said...

Dear Goodness, spend the money on TREES?????

Can noone else see that there are significant social problems in this area - as in all of London in fact - and that the money needs to go to the "root" of these. [boom boom, for anyone over the age of 35].

We need to provide youngsters with something to do - i think it is a national priority too, actually. My vote goes to the youth centre idea.

Anonymous said...

There's not much chance those comments were written by kids. I know because I wrote two of them.

Some people need a good look at themselves over this ridiculous feeding frenzy over ten grand.

sarah said...

I voted digicams; its great use of a grand, I checked out Love lewisham as well nice work kids!
see you came over Brockley cross and showed the adults how its done
after them moaning about how easy reporting is!(and there's a link on this site to)LOL,not one of us seems to be able to use it though, the station was a real mess last night,I walked past and didn't think to get it sorted
thanks for getting it cleaned up
thats why you got my vote,
because its not just your st you are caring for the Tanners hill youth projectS should get the other 9 grand.

Brockley Nick said...

Guys, please be civil, or I shall have to suspend comments on this thread, which would be a shame, as, in-between the sniping, there is an interesting debate going on and some people have made some really important points.

Whatever the reasons, it's not appropriate to pretend to be someone you are not.

Thank you for your cooperation everyone.

Anonymous said...

To me this opens up a much wider debate about the nature of democracy in these matters- where the possibility exists that we might end up spending the ten grand on something that we really don't need and purely based on a wrong assumption by the majority of the people.

I.e. we wouldn't buy digicams if we knew of a scheme where this had failed elsewhere in london, and we wouldn't buy trees if we knew that they would die within a few weeks. The point is - how do we know? Surely the council are best placed to allocate the funds based on their knowledge of where it is genuinely needed.

Anonymous said...

Something I've long wanted to do as part of the B max festival was to get local youth to take photos of what Brockley means to them, and then to work with an artist to mount the images on tiles to create a mural. I remember the incredible reaction from kids when Known was painting the mural and when we did the black icons mural during previous festivals. This might be another, positive way to use the cameras to encourage young people to engage with, and create a sense of ownership of their community, not to mention encouraging creativity.
Moira

Anonymous said...

While I'm all for this kind of thing Moira, is there a danger that we'll just end up with some really bad art in a public place?
MK

londie said...

As regards democracy and who's best placed to allocate the money: the councillors put together the short-list, and I hope that they have vetted these projects one way or another to ensure all have a good chance of meeting their stated aims; and that these aims relate to something they've identified as worthwhile (i believe they all contribute to one of 3 bullet points.. above somewhere). Beyond that, they are looking to the 'community' for a steer as to what's important to fund. Sounds about right to me, as a process.

That said, they have already allocated £250 to lighting the Xmas fair. Can I suggest, Councillors, that you use tomorrow evening as an opportunity to agree an amount for next year's xmas fair, if there turns out to be one, to avoid you dipping into the pot prior to consultation. (Normally its the kind of thing that would make me cross - but you've made such a common-sense decision in this case!).

For a related (and due to scale, more controversial) experiment, see The People's 50 Million at http://www.thepeoples50million.org.uk/home (and its regional, £80K cousin, The People's Millions, which is also going on now on regional ITV networks). You can bet that all the projects featured have been through an exhaustive vetting process; they are all good, solid fundable projects, but there's just not enough money to fund all of them. One of four of the £50m projects will be funded, selected based on phone-in and online votes. (Mine will go to Sustrans - because its about greener local travel). Vote now online, or from 7 Dec by phone.

Anonymous said...

Mk
To avoid 'bad art' hence the involvement of an artist who'd oversee the final image.
I agree with Jackie, art is personal - a certain cab company owner hates Known's mural for example. And we did have a few comments from passerby during the painting, all who I have to say, were over the age of 60!
Jackie - you can email me on the B Max site - though I'm not doing the festival this year - but I cannot seem to help putting my oar in. Stop me someone!!
Moira

Amanda Wickham said...

I’m delighted at the arrival of the two delis; Dandelion Blue and Degustation in Coulgate street as well as the cafĂ© Broca, these happenings along with the general program of improvements in the pipeline for the area are what lead me to conclude that the bulk of the money should be spent on a scheme specifically for the younger members of our community. Are ‘digicam graffiti patrols’ the answer who knows? As long as the project is properly organised, I think it’s well worth pursuing. It is quirky, it is odd, (hence the debate generated) and that is what makes it totally Brockley in my view. Let’s go for it! If it does well, hooray, if it doesn’t… at least it shows that the cultural heart of Brockley, is fuelled by people who truly look beyond their own socio-economic desires.

Finally, I’d like to put in a word for the fun run. I’m not sure whether it fits the funding criteria but £500-£1000 put towards the organisation of a fun run, would have longstanding and far reaching benefits for the area as follows
1. Community: This event can include (but is not limited to) a large cross section of our community, the young, mature, disabled, etc, be it as participants and organisers e.g. marshalls on the day.

2. Economically: It’s a great opportunity for local shops to showcase themselves, possibly by offering ‘post fun run’ snacks, sponsoring marshalls’ bibs etc.

3. Tidy Brockley: by virtue of the run, but depending on the route, we’ll have to look at the streets a bit more and this could highlight areas that need work or spur some additionally sprucing.

4. Health: Generally, it’s thought getting people running is a good thing. The Brockley Fun Run, can be set for a date just before of after the London Marathon in April, which inspires running and fitness.

5. Community cohesion :) : the route for the run can include local areas we might not otherwise visit. The run could bridge that alleged East/ West divide in Brockley sometimes cited on this blog.

6. Happy Brockley : I think an annual Fun run, would make a lovely addition to the area’s existing big events; the wonderful Brockley Max & the much loved Summer fayre. The spectacle of lots of people (hopefully) happy but tired running about possibly in fancy dress is a feelgood factor in and of itself. Also there’s the opportunity to raise money for charity via the run, this has a myriad of options…

To the councillors thank for your consideration of all our thoughts. Thanks to anyone and everyone who’s read this.

Amanda

Anonymous said...

Feel a bit sad, as some people have really forgotten what this site is all about. I appreciate we are all entitled to an opinion, but I find certain visitors are getting a little too personal and making what normally is a great lunchtime read an unpleasant place to visit! We all have a common aim to make Brockley a better place to live. Lets use our time positively rather than slinging dirt at one another!
I must commend Nick on giving Brockley a voice and bringing peoples attention to an area of London that seemed to have been lost in the big wide world of web!!
Thank you Nick, keep up the good work!

mandy said...

i think to would be a great project for the children of brockley to have digicams as it would get them out and about and they will be doing something positive for our environment. mandy

Brockley Nick said...

Thanks anon, a good read is certainly what the site attempts to be.

Anonymous said...

Well, I for one have thoroughly enjoyed the frenzied debate over the past few days (aside from the occasional inapropriate entry)... it certainly beats working on uninspiring spreadsheets!

I think Nick and the Councillors have done an exellent job in presenting this topic to our evidently very passionate community.

I also believe that this 'unofficial' poll has attracted votes and views from right across our demography (no doubt attracting interest from those aged 8 to 80), so the results should be very useful to the decision makers in gauging public opinion. As for the individuals without this resource... they will have their opportunity to discuss each project's merits on Tuesday evening.

Harry.

Ed said...

I hope the counsellors are able to see the wood for the trees tonight ;) I am glad that more than one project will be funded and find it a little depressing at the nature of some of the comments on this thread; we are all entitled to an opinion after all. Personally I think that youth projects should get some of the award but the digicams idea strikes me as odd, probably only involving those youths who least need to be enfranchised. Still if in a year there's a knockout exhibition of the results at the tea factory gallery then I guess I (and many others) will have been proven wrong...

Ed

P.S. I still think a Greener central Brockley would be good for the area as a whole.

andy pandy pudding & pie said...

Jackie,

Although i do not agree with the scheme you are proposing re. digi cams your postings have made a very postive and worthy contribution to the debate. For instance, initially i assumed you were asking for the whole £10k not just £1k which you quite correctly pointed out to the readers was the case.

We all live in brockley and it is your right to have your say on here as much as anyone else. I hope you could re-consider the request to remove your postings as overall the debatew will suffer.

Brenda said...

Nick,

I would also like to have all my posts removed as I am very unhappy

Brenda

andy pandy pudding & pie said...

Brenda,

If that is the case then i cant see how you contribute in a positive way to brockley's development but stiffling debate and quiting just because people disagree with your comments.

Brockley Nick said...

Brenda, I don't know about you but I have a day job and I am afraid I don't have time to do that. Given that your only posts were to criticise other people's ideas and comments on this site, perhaps you could explain why you feel so offended?

Bea said...

Brenda, why do you want to quit now and have your posts removed? I have found this debate highly entertaining and it has given me food for thought regarding positive and negative attitudes towards the young in Brockley. By removing posts that contribute to the debate you are removing the flow of the argument and that would be an injustice to those people who have voted based on your comments. Why not stand by your convictions and leave people here to decided whether they agree or not.

P.S. I shouldn’t say this – as I would like the comments to stay – but you can delete them yourself as you are the author!

Tanners hill sue said...

Nick,

This highlights why the cllrs should run polls on an official site, so proper controls can be implemented sorry but,

I also want you to delete my posts tanners hill sue on lunch break.

Pete said...

I think it is hilarious that you all want your comments deleting. Are you hoping to erase history? Are you embarrassed by what you wrote?

If you are not prepared to stand by what you have written perhaps you should think before you type?

What difference would it have made if this was on an official site? As Nick has said, this isn't an official poll. This is just a talking shop for people from Brockley.

Anonymous said...

Yeah could you delete mine too Nick...

Bea said...

Frankly asking for posts to be removed because the flavour of the debate is not going ones own way is childish.

I have had my opinions challenged on this blog too and been accused of being a “Yummy Mummy” (untrue – single Mum working 50 hours a week – only wish I could stay home to bake) but that doesn’t mean that what I write doesn’t, in my opinion, have merit. I hope you thought so too when you posted your own opinions. Why quit now?

Brockley Nick said...

"Tanners hill sue", it's not a question of "proper controls" you have no right to expect your posts to be deleted by me, you are essentially asking for a favour, but doing so in a rude manner, without explanation of your grievances. In future, if you post using a google account (free to set up) then you can delete your posts, as you wish.

Sarah J S said...

Nick,

I have asked you nicely to delete my posts as I thought this was a council controlled site I am sure others did to.There is no need to be rude to Brenda, I personally know her and she is not someone who uses a computer all the time, it was good she took part but like me, she is also pulling out due to the negitivity and abuse shown to the younger generation on this site.
Sarah

Brockley Jon said...

Bea and Pete, completely see your points about not deleting comments to keep the flow of the conversation, and because if you don't want to stand by them then you shouldn't write it in the first place. But, I fear it may be too late! - I've already had to delete some, and will be attending to the next batch later on tonight - like Nick, I too have a day job ;)

Anonymous said...

Sarah, I didn't see any abuse directed at the younger generation, only at what people perceived to be bad ideas. I'm all for projects for the youths in our borough but not any old thing. I think the digicam idea is misdirected personally - a youth centre, well that's different. Just because it's for the kids doesn't automatically make it good.
PJ

Anonymous said...

It should have been made clear that posts could not be deleted on the front page or by cllr Walton who seems to have encouraged us all to come on this site,just another reason not to promote unofficial uncontrolled
sites, as we now know this site has nothing to do with Lewisham council as I have emailed and asked them.

To Brenda & Jackie: said...

Would it be safe to say that we have had a communication break-down? I'd just like to point out that part of the deal when you're fundraising is to communicate effectively with all stakeholders. Clearly, in this case, you did not get 'buy-in' from the community. Speaking for myself, the one-line description in Nick's post did sound kind of wacky (not Nick's fault). I think the comments show that lots of people here didn't instinctively understand what you're trying to do -- its not as simple as planting trees, after all, and even that was debated. As Jackie explained more about it - gradually, and not very well - I started getting more interested in it. But the tone of those comments - from Jackie, from Brenda, and then others - put me off. I started wondering if you really were the right person/people to lead a community initiative -- since building relationships is such a vital part of any good project.

I'm truly saddened that you, and now others, feel you want to 'erase' your contributions to this debate. Look around the site; its actually a great community, with humour and debate everywhere. (I, like Bea, who I'm sure is yummy, have been challenged here too, from time to time). Please, do ask yourselves, why were you unable to tap into the community spirit here? And you are able to reflect honestly about what's gone wrong, and what you can do to head off these problems next time, maybe your next community project will feel as much like its 'ours' as it is 'yours'.

The irony is that, I think, everyone who has contributed here wants the same things. We're not all deli-fetishists with designer pets. (APP i figure you can take a joke ;)). Jackie, brenda, and others: good luck at the meeting tonight, and in everything you take on for Brockley in future.

Anonymous said...

perhaps this just shows the need for proper controls on a site(lewisham council have such controls and people monitering content) as its great to have blogs but opening them up to children and the general public (GREEN CLLRS)
shows how misuse can so easily occur and posts remain for long periods before they are removed causing hurt to people.
Nick your saddly site sure is unofficial. the swearing alone shows that

Anonymous said...

RE: TO BRENDA AND JACKIE

I don't know who wrote that but it's one of the better considered entries on this subject. You hit the nail on the head. For some reason - Jackie and Brenda came across very badly in their posts - perhaps because they didn't respond well to the negativity towards the digicam idea.

On another point I think it's very important that this site is NOT official - it's better these views get aired than deleted by a blog administrator who can make it appear that everyone is towing the council line or any other convenient line of argument. If this is how people feel then it should be aired. You cannot on the one hand promote freedom of speech and on the other complain about posts that disagree with yours.

Brockley's youths should probably see some of this money, but whether it should be spent on cameras for them is probably better answered by somebody who knows about that stuff, i.e. not me.

andy pandy pudding & pie said...

It's also worth pointing out that this site's administrators do indeed enforce the nationals web-blog code of conduct a article of which can be found in the history of postings to this site.

In my experience this is one of best 'non-offical' sites that people of any walk of life can access, precisely why I imagine the local councillors wish to contibute.

Its also worth pointing out - to our councillors - that you will never please everyone, be content in doing what ever you can do to better peoples lives and I am sure that everyone who uses this site welcome the honest and open debate you bring to it.

Anonymous said...

i think you should all be ashamed of yourselves. What a sad state of affairs when grown men and women scrabble like this over £10,000 and even pretend to be kids!

And I dont think Nick or Jon have EVER said this is a council regulated site.

Shameful.

Anonymous said...

Very easy:

1. this site is great, is independent and should stay that way.

2. the councillors deserve credit for trying to reach out to people and ask what WE want done with OUR money. I don't see it as a cynical exercise by them - they are genuinely seeking input (and Im not a Green!)

3. it worries me that people see merit in an "official" site - this attitude is a mini version of why UK public service numbers and spending have grown so much relative to the GDP produced by the private sector. Let local people organise and decide things in our own communities. We know better than burocreauts.

Anonymous said...

even if I can't spell bureaucrat...;-)

Brockley Jon said...

Thanks everyone for their contributions regarding the £10k fund, and their thoughts on this blog.

Comments to this topic are now closed. As moderator, I have been on a comment deleting spree, due to some personal requests to us at Brockley Central, and because I feel this thread has got a little out of hand.

I have not deleted every comment, but I have been more trigger happy with comments that contain insults, referred to deleted comments, or those that had terrible spelling and/or grammar - sorry, sum of u r jus gonna hav 2 deal wiv it!

It would have been easy to delete the lot to make things more clear cut, but there is some very good debate here, and Nick & I value all of your comments - when written thoughtfully.

For future reference, as Nick has already pointed out, if you post comments using a free Google ID, you can delete comments as you wish. We would advise you all to use a Google ID anyway, so that no-one can post comments maliciously in your name.

Let's put this lively but particularly unfriendly thread behind us and look forward to the Xmas market on Saturday. See you there.

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