Brockley Bakerloo line revealed

The News Shopper has found this TfL-designed tube map, which shows the tube network, following the southern extension of the Bakerloo Line, earmarked for completion in 2040.

Aside from the fact that it's nice to dream, the map is helpful in that it confirms that Brockley would be served if the line goes via Camberwell. This would be achieved by reopening the high level station, which runs perpendicularly to the East London Line. A direct tube link to neighbouring locations like Peckham and Lewisham would be terrifically useful, even without the extra connectivity to central London.

A public consultation on this project is due to start later this year.

26 comments:

makeithappenquicker said...

shame that's 25 years away.

Bluesman said...

I think you will find that is not a TfL map. Source to be found here:
http://www.londonreconnections.com/2014/london-2050-cartographical-interlude/

It includes a lot of conjecture so don't read too much into it...

Headhunter said...

The Charing X trains? After promising us that there would be no change to our existing services once the ELL opened, the rail authorities renaged on this and immediately cancelled direct trains from Brockley to Charing Cross, apparently for a completely unrelated reason...

Matt-Z said...

Indeed, this map is a valiant effort by an enthusiast, no more no less.

Brockley Nick said...

Yes. Although he claims to have based it word for word on the documents in the 2050 plan. Sorry for any confusion, will double source next time! ;)

Brockley Nick said...

I don't miss em. Especially whenever I travel from Charing X and creak through Waterloo to London Bridge. The short interchange at London Bridge is the least of the hassle.

AliAfro said...

Spirit of Lou

Headhunter said...

It's not a short interchange.... At peaks times it's a fight through the crowds from platform 4 (I think), up the busy steps, crashing into people hanging around at the top of the steps staring blankly at the destination boards... More often than not the next Brockley train is in 10 mins so you have to try to flatten yourself against the back wall so that you don't get crushed by the hoardes whilst you wait for the platform to be listed, then begin the "hike" through the crowds on the other side of the station to platform 13 or 14.... You clearly don't make the "short interchange" at peak times in total between getting off and leaving on a Brockley train, the "short interchange" is often 20+ mins....

Brockley Nick said...

There was no Charing X service at peak time anyway.


No, I try not to get the train to Charing X if at all possible, as it's often a frustrating 30 or 40 minute journey, when it should be a 20 minute journey. On the odd occasion, at weekends or wotnot, I will use it and I don't find it any inconvenience to change trains - when I get to London Bridge, I then have a choice of trains to New Cross, St Johns or Brockley, all of which are roughly equidistant from my house, so there's usually one in a few minutes. Of course, I am lucky enough not to have walking difficulties or a push chair, which would make life different. But then, you don't have those things either.

Headhunter said...

There used to be Charing Cross direct from Brockley back in the day, even at peak times, then it was reduced to weekends and evenings then it was abolished altogether... It's been a slow erosion...


OK up to 20 mins at peak times perhaps not 20+... Have you tried it? If you just miss a Brockley train then it's a long uncomfortable, pushy and shovey wait for the next one... I do it every day. I work in Mayfair sometimes I walk to London Bridge but Ch X is much closer. Off peak it's less of a hassle I suppose as the station is emptier but trains to Ch X are less frequent so you do sometimes end up hanging around...

Matt-Z said...

Don't worry we're not alone - New Cross and Deptford are permanently losing their Charing Cross services from next year - all trains will go to Cannon Street. Post 2018 and the completion of the Thameslink works this should be ameliorated by a better service and easier interchange at London Bridge. Those still missing the direct Charing Cross service need only wait until Boris rides into town on his unicorn to open the Bakerloo extension in 2050.

Brockley Nick said...

If you're in Mayfair, get on the Jubilee Line at Green Park or Bond Street and change on to the ELL. Boom! Home in half the time.


I know, you once tried the ELL and it despite it being the most reliable line on the network, you contrived to be a bit delayed and have thus vowed never to use it again.

Headhunter said...

My reply to this has just vanished again....

Brockley Nick said...

Sign in properly, then I can whitelist your email address so you never get blocked by the spam filter. There's obviously something about you that the system doesn't like. Possibly it thinks that a Headhunter is likely to be a spambot, possibly it just thinks that someone posting year after year about how terrible a billion pounds worth of infrastructure investment is must be some sort of robot ;)

Headhunter said...

OK... I'm in. First of all for the record, I haven't complained about the ELL/overground, I think it's a great ADDITION to existing services as it was originally pitched... What annoyed me is the loss off Charing X trains (apparently for an unrelated reason). We were promised there would be no affect on existing trains and lo and behold, the Ch X trains were axed completely.... However I love the ELL, it's worked wonders for my house value apparently...


My reply to your original message was that I can't use the tube or ELL as I have a gold card rail pass which is about half the price of a zone 1 & 2 pass... Also I take the 7.32am train to London Bridge and always get a seat if not a block of 4 round a table to myself... The morning ELL from Brockley looks an absolute nightmare - people bursting onto the platform as soon as the doors open and I dread to think what the peak time interchange at Can Water is like.


For me It's the interchange to Ch X which is a nightmare...

Matt-Z said...

Absolutely, at New Cross in the 90s there were trains to Charing Cross all day with a a 5-10 minute frequency even off peak. It has really suffered with the long distance fast trains to Kent benefitting. It makes it all the more galling that TfL wanted to take over the inner suburban services from the much-criticised South Eastern, but were smacked down by ill-informed local politicians in Kent who thought their services would somehow suffer. Some boroughs on the edge of or neighbouring south east London are now starting to come round to the idea that TfL-run metro surfaces would complement rather than abstract from their South Eastern (or other TOC) operated long-distance services. I expect the proposal will be revisited when the Kent franchise is up for renewal again in 2018. It wouldn't mean a return for Charing Cross services, but it should see improved freqencies and standards across the suburban trains (and the estate agents' holy grail of appearing on the tube map).

Olaf_Hansen said...

Consulation on the Bakerloo line extension is starting on 29 September according to london-se1

Headhunter said...

Yeah I remember, it was like Tube frequency from Ch X to New Cross back in the day....

terrencetrentderby said...

The morning ELL trains/cattletrucks are horrible as is the nasty scramble once you get to Canada Water. The mainline trains are a much nicer way to travel and it is a real shame this service has been eroded.

terrencetrentderby said...

The morning London Bridge trains end at platforms 14-15 which aren't even connected to the footbridge.

Headhunter said...

That was what Lou Baker, Tamsin and I were complaining about when the ELL was extended - it's useful as an addition to central London services but not as a replacement for them... As soon as the ELL opened, in my opinion, Brockley lost out as the mainline London Bridge trains were made less frequent and we completely lost our direct trains to Waterloo and Ch X in exchange for trains to Shoreditch and Islington and erm, Croydon.... Great...

Headhunter said...

Yes, at the moment it's a fair old traipse from the Brockley platforms in the new, incomplete section to the old part where the Ch X trains run and it's a slow amble with all the people during peak times

Monkeyboy said...

"always get a seat" yes many people use the ELL rather than Southern, presumably they find it a more attractive option.

terrencetrentderby said...

It is easier to get onto the Jubilee line via Canada Water though as unfortunately the Underground barriers get closed at London Bridge whenever it is busty kettling people into the entrance, unless you walk round.


I really hated the scum that got on at Surrey Quays. Thankfully my new job is walking distance from London Bridge after a civilised mainline journey. Southern do like to spontaneously cancel morning trains though, I felt like punching one of those twats on the "Meet the Managers" stand this morning.


The ELL is what it is, a cheap line tube type train service.

Headhunter said...

Yes, Southern do sometimes just cancel trains which is annoying, although they've been better recently. I always claim compensation when they cancel or delay trains, you can get £2.50 per cancelled journey...

Likely Story said...

Luvving the artwork!
Who am I kidding. I've seen better.
Mine for example.
When you can see it.
Oh Dear.
Trains and tracks in SE London seem to be such a hot potatoe.

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