Huge increase in East London Line passenger numbers

TfL has confirmed that the number of passengers using the East London Line on a daily basis has grown dramatically since the summer, from 40,000 in June to 70,000 in October.

This no-doubt tallies with the daily experiences of anyone who uses the line in the morning rush-hour, when trains are now regularly packed.

Thanks to the Forest Hill Society for drawing our attention to the story.

76 comments:

luverly said...

And if my obversations hold true, even more will be using it, Forest Hill, Honor Oak, Brockley all have housing developments of varying sizes built by the stations. So great!

Louny Baker said...

NO! Not listening! Fools... idiots! It only goes to Penge. Full of chav scum anyway.... stabbings... students! My taxes! BAH!

Lou Baker said...

A pretty lousy number I'd say.

30,000 used the old East London Line everyday.

It's now been hugely extended, it's replaced a third of central London trains over half its route and its usership has barely doubled.

Tfl estimated the Overground would carry 100m passengers per annum by 2012. They're barely 2/3 of the way there. Hardly a resounding success and more evidence that this project was poor value for money.

loopy said...

Can only people with usernames with L post in this thread, kthanks!

Brockley Nick said...

God bless you Lou, that was great. I didn't even see that angle coming. I was expecting you to say something about how the trains being full makes it rubbish. The "they're only 2/3 of the way there (in five months)" line was inspired.

Brockley Nick said...

Sorry loopy

The Cat Man said...

oh dear Lou, you are really depressing me.

I dont beleive TFL would of predicted the recession when they produced their forecast, and besides, we are more than a year away from their predicted date.

Giveen that it has doubled in the space of 6-7 months, you can expect at least the same again, bringing the total per annum to something like what they have said. Not bad considering the recession.

Anonymous said...

Once and for all Catman, it is "would've" not "would of".

Matt-z said...

How long before the trains are extended to five car? It's the longest they can realistically get without major surgery and/or closing some stations.

Brockley Kiwi said...

I have to say that Lou brings me a lot of joy on a daily basis, or more specifically reading the responses to his antagonistic comments.

Long may it continue!

Yakamoto said...

Id rather have a bit of room on the trains, than go down the Japanese route of shoehorning people on.

Tommo said...

TfL's passenger numbers suffered when the recession hit, however they have recovered faster than forecast. From 17 Oct to 13 Nov, London Underground carried over 90 million passengers which is a record for a four week period.


Once the extensions to Highbury & Islington and Clapham Junction are open, 100 million passengers on the overground per year should be easily achievable.

mb said...

eh? so because it's three times as long it should carry three times the number or be a failure? Thank christ you're not traffic modeler.

mb said...

...refering to Lou's insanity obviously

mb said...

...and london overground is more than just the ELL.

Brockley Nick said...

@mb - according to the original article, the Overgound carried a total of 200,000 passengers per day in the same period.

Mb said...

200,000 people all going to places they don't want too. What a bunch of mugs.

Paul said...

Even if you don't use the ELL, it's arrival has meant you can get a seat on the Southern trains that run to London Bridge. When I first moved to Brockley (3 years ago), you had to shove as hard as you could to get on.
Surely that's a benefit

brlea said...

It's bearable sometimes, but i wouldn't hype the southern service, it's as ropey as owt; v. often late in peak times.

Louny Baker said...

Well that showed me. No parody can come close to how ridiculous Lou 'Lala Land' Baker now sounds.

The Cat Man said...

"Once and for all Catman, it is "would've" not "would of"."

Why are annons so pedantic?

Anonymous said...

Catman - it is "Anons" not "Annons"

Tamsin said...

Lou's got a good point. The 70000 are not all new passengers. As well as the old East London Line isn't it the case that some Southern services to London Bridge have been cut? (The Forest Hill Society was doing some detailed calculations a year back on the extent to which the new overground service would offset the cutbacks in Southern.) However there is undoubtedly some increase in capacity and a better service for those in Brockley and beyond. It is also presumably shifting people who might otherwise drive from the outer suburbs. So on balance a good thing on passenger capacity alone. And good to be able to get (occasionally) to a wider variety of places like the Geffrey Museum.

Whether it is value for money is another question and one impossible to answer. One of the unquantifiables being that it puts Brockley and points South on the map for those movers and shakers who cannot imagine a place existing unless it is on a Beck style diagrammatic map.

From the orginal article on the Forest Hill website the change at Canada Water to the Jubilee line sounds grim.

Anonymous said...

The change at Canada Water to the Jubilee line is much easier than the change at London Bridge.

pedant said...

I wasn't the anon who pointed it out, Catman, but I do find it annoying that a grown man repeatedly makes a mistake that most children grow out of by the time they can read without moving their lips.

Anonymous said...

...yes Catman, the least you could of done is learn from you're mistakes...oh damn it

Brockley Nick said...

@Tamsin - you've never done the interchange at Canada Water?!

Anyway, as someone has already said, the interchange is brilliant compared to London Bridge. The only thing is that at rush hour in the morning, people seem unable to walk down the short escalator, which is incredibly annoying. It must be the only escalator in the tube network where people just stand there.

Matt-z said...

Anyone who doesn't think the ELL/Overground is a net gain is deluded. Yes there are winners and losers, but overall it's a decent improvement on what was there before.

Changing to the Jubilee will be a much better experience once its new signalling is finished and capacity/frequency is massively increased. Alas, the PPP and Tubelines buggered it up so comprehensively that it's anyone's guess when it will be finished.

Tamsin said...

@ Nick - your're right - I've only done it outside the rush hour and no problems (except the confusing signage that first time sent me off in the wrong direction!). I was just referring back to the original article you linked to.

And generally it should be clear from my post that I agree it is an overall net gain. Just not all that it is hyped up to be and the traffic planners should not be left to rest on their laurels.

And I could not leave Lou alone crying in the wilderness.

mb said...

No it's not a good or bad point.

Why is the fact that possibly 30 of the 70k may have been passengers that used the old service relevant? 70,000 people a day find it useful, or do you think they are all disatisfied?

qbf said...

Which is easier?

A: Get off train, walk along platform, go through barrier, across concourse, down escalator, through shopping arcade, across another concourse, through barriers, down escalator, down another escalator, onto platform.

B: Get off train, walk to top of escalator, go down escalator onto platform.

The Canada Water interchange is a single biggest improvement brought by the Overground. (And even if people stand and don't walk on the escalator it can't add more than 15 seconds to your journey, Nick!)

qbf said...

Which is easier?

A: Get off train, walk along platform, go through barrier, across concourse, down escalator, through shopping arcade, across another concourse, through barriers, down escalator, down another escalator, onto platform.

B: Get off train, walk to top of escalator, go down escalator onto platform.

The Canada Water interchange is a single biggest improvement brought by the Overground. (And even if people stand and don't walk on the escalator it can't add more than 15 seconds to your journey, Nick!)

qbf said...

Which is easier?

A: Get off train, walk along platform, go through barrier, across concourse, down escalator, through shopping arcade, across another concourse, through barriers, down escalator, down another escalator, onto platform.

B: Get off train, walk to top of escalator, go down escalator onto platform.

The Canada Water interchange is a single biggest improvement brought by the Overground. (And even if people stand and don't walk on the escalator it can't add more than 15 seconds to your journey, Nick!)

qbf said...

oops, sorry for double post.

Brockley Nick said...

Triple actually, but it was a good point worth making three times.

Re: standing on the escalator, it's baffling, more than anything.But it is annoying when you can see the doors of a jubilee line train opening and people just stand there like muppets so everyone misses it.

Anonymous said...

Which is easier?

A. Click submit 'Publish your comment' several times so that everyone has to read your view 3 times

B. Don't

Lou Baker said...

@matt z

And the biggest losers are those in Brockley north (New Cross Gate) and Telegraph Hill.

There just needs to be more of an understanding on this website that large numbers of people in this area haven't benefitted at all from the ELL extension.

Yes it's great for people in Hackney, Croydon and Penge.

But the Brockley blog should recognise that many in this area have lost out as a result of these changes.

Even people who think I'm a moron - and I think there may be one or two such misguided folk - should realise that Tamsin agrees with me. And she seems relatively normal.

Westsider said...

NXG commuters haven't lost, they just haven't won as much as places like Brockley. NXG people have still got more frequent trains going to more places, nicer stations, better interchanges and nicer carriages.

Anonymous said...

"There just needs to be more of an understanding on this website that large numbers of people in this area haven't benefitted at all from the ELL extension."
Everyone is free to make a comment on this website. If there aren't many people saying what a disaster the ELL is, what does that tell you Lou?
you also back up your comment by saying Tamsin agrees with you. That makes 2 of you...

Chapperstee said...

Why So Serious?

Sorry people but I love the East London Line. It sure beats waiting for a packed train to London Bridge :)

Westsider said...

The people who don't like it, don't use it and had made up their minds about it before it opened.

Tamsin said...

@ Westsider (and as such do you travel from NXG?)
More frequent trains - but not that many more (and fewer seats because no longer an ELL terminus and you don't have people getting off Southern trains to move across to ELL)
More places - yes, but only north of Shoreditch
Nicer stations - not really, the East London Line was upgraded anyway only ten years ago.
Better interchanges - same as before.
Nicer carriages - agreed, but fewer seats in them.

Speaking for myself I am not saying it is a disaster, and agree totally with the majority that overall it is good news, just don't expect everyone to join in the unqualified plaudits and self-contragulation. And there are still transport issues in the area to be addressed, so we mustn't let the planners say "now that you have the Overground that you all love so much shut up and be satisfied".

Tamsin said...

And don't persist in misunderstanding me. I do like it and I do use it. Just a slight acknowledgement that it is not the best thing since sliced bread for everyone and what some of us (the lucky ones I agree) had before was OK.

Matt-z said...

There are later trains for Brockley on Southern's winter timetable you NXGers are getting even more trains with some fast services from Norwood Junction to London Bridge now stopping at NXG.

Brockley Nick said...

Matt, have you got the details for the new timetable please?

Tamsin said...

Matt, isn't that because we've lost some (I agree not all) of the services to East Croydon (which was the link to the Gatwick Express)?

Sorry, feeling contrary Eeyore-ish today.

Danja said...

And she seems relatively normal.

You only ally is a self-confessed eeyore who wishes that we were preserved in (by now very smelly) Victorian aspic. As such anything built or done after 1901 is intolerable, unless it is fake Victoriana.

As the old ELL was built in 1869, that made it a perfect Victorian thing apart from some no doubt irritating changes of rolling stock, messing with leaking tunnels, etc.

If they had brought back steam trains for the Overground, Tamsin would be loving it.

Brockley Nick said...

To be fair, the return of steam trains to the ELL would be awesome.

Headhunter said...

Both Tamsin and Lou still have a point in my view. The ELL extension would have been a fantastic ADDITION to Brockley services as it was marketed to us until the last minute. We were informed that the ELL would be in ADDITION to existing services, however it ultimately came at a time when Brockley lost all its direct Charing X trains and a 3rd of its off peak London Br trains.

As Tamsin said the ELL is not bad news, it's just not utter transport nirvana for Brockley that transport chiefs and some people here seem to believe it is...

Brockley Nick said...

But HH, given that you now accept that the two things are not linked, imagine if we hadn't had the ELL, how much more devastating the loss of the London Bridge services would have been!!!

Tamsin said...

A bit unfair, Danja, to bring THS baggage into this. And I've gone public here saying that I've surprised myself by finding that I like the Shard.

Steam trains - hmm... Not all white clouds in the Devon countryside, in London they were filthy dirty, smuts in the eye and pea-souper fogs. When my grandfather was young he or his brothers came up to London for the day the moment they returned his mother would scrub them head to toe in (ironically) Writes Coal Tar Soap.

Headhunter said...

I'm still not entirely convinced they weren't linked. I think it was easy for Southern to axe our trains because they knew we had the ELL. Now that the official reason for axing our trains has gone away to some extent (the super fast link from Kent which turned out to be unpopular and overpriced), why haven't our trains been reinstated if that was the only reason we lost them?

Brockley Nick said...

who knows. With regards to the Kent line, I think people have been too quick to write that off. We need to think long-term. Of course there aren't millions of passengers queueing up to use it yet, but I thought the aim was to stimulate development in the areas it serves and that takes time. Correct me if I'm wrong?

Headhunter said...

I don't think peas soupers were solely down to steam trains, at that time London had a lot more industry with coal burning furnaces etc, as well as every home with coal burning fires. I remember my granny telling me that during the worst pea soupers you could stretch your hand out in front of you and not be able to see it, the fog was so thick. She also said that you would get home with a kind of sticky film all over your skin and clothes so no wonder your ancestor was scrubbed down after a visit to London!

Headhunter said...

Yes, I can see that we perhaps shouldn't write off the high speed Kent link, however whilst demand is low why can they not reinstate our trains (where demand is high)? Surely there is now greater capacity through London Bridge once again as they have cut a number of the empty high speed trains that were rushing through. What exactly are they waiting for? Perhaps it just goes to show that Southern is more interested in netting high profit travellers from Kent than its inner London customers and will act on any excuse to cut less profitable inner London trains and knows that everyone in Brockley is apparently in transport heaven with the wonderful new links to Penge and Dalston...

drakefell debaser said...

Fancy that, an article about the ELL and Tamsin, Lou Baker and Headhunter demonstrate how entrenched their glass half empty views on the ELL are.

I hope Father Christmas will bring you guys some new records to play for new year. The 'ELL is Crap' single must be scratched to buggery...

Anonymous said...

Plus, Headhunter and Lou are on record as saying they cycle to work and Tamsin doesn't commute. Seems some people are just happiest when having a moan.

Headhunter said...

DD and Anon - As I have always said, the ELL isn't crap, it would have been a great addition to existing trains, as it was pitched to SE Londoners, I simply resent the way Southern seems to have sneaked in cuts to our central London trains having promised no such cuts whilst the ELL was being constructed. And now that the supposed reason for the cuts has been cut itself, they still haven't reinstated our central London trains.

Lou Baker said...

I do cycle to work - best way to commute. I recommend it to all.

And I am glass half full. Never moan about anything - except trains. Cough.

Merry Christmas.

Westsider said...

Fine HH, but do you need to say it every bloody time? This is new news, can we have a new discussion maybe?

I'm so bored of hearing the same arguments from you three.

pitchforks said...

Destroy the enchanted metal horse! There be witchcraft afoot.

Headhunter said...

Fair enough, but we get the same blind adoration of the ELL whenever something comes up and usual mocking of anyone who doesn't accept the marketing line that the ELL is the best thing that happened to Brockley since sliced bread and how we are soooo much better off now... Just saying, I still don't swallow that.

Anonymous said...

It's not the 'marketing line' though is it? It's people's experiences. You may not like it clearly but plenty more do.

Westsider said...

Not blind adoration of the ELL headhunter just straightforward reporting of some new facts that have come to light (which are a mixed blessing for morning commuters anyway).

Three posts in, we get the usual Lou treatment, which was laughed off. Then some more discussion of some other issues and then you and Tamsin wade in with the same old points.

Tamsin said...

And we are equally bored of the same accusations and jibes. Please have the courtesy to actually read our posts - we do not think the Overground/ELL extension is crap, just not all that it was sold to us as, or is made out to be.

And we trot out our views when the issue is raised simply to provide a little balance to the oft repeated message from the other side that all is wonderful and there is nothing left to ask for.

Westsider said...

Tamsin, half the things you three say are wrong or massive distortions (like no benefits for NXG) and the other half are by your own admission glass half empty moans from people who hardly ever use the service.

We all like it. 70,000 people a day like it. You three don't like it. So what? We know that already.

Either say something new or shhh.

Tamsin said...

It's not new - but you persist in not hearing it - we DO like it! Just not as much as everyone else.

qbf said...

Who is saying that the Overground leaves us with nothing more to ask for? Acknowledgement that it brings an improvement to the services from Brockley is not the same as saying everything is now perfect. In fact, I can't remember anyone ever saying that.

David icke said...

The ELL is run by lizard people. Don't say you weren't warned

Headhunter said...

So westsider, you love the ELL. We get it. Again. Allow us to express our opinions. You also need to READ, despite the 3 of us telling everyone (time and again apparently) that we LIKE the ELL and that it IS a benefit, you still cite that we don't like it....

Headhunter said...

So QBF, the 3 of us see benefit in the ELL, and apparently so does everyone else. So apparently we're all in agreement, that the ELL brings benefit to Brockley. Then why the constant mocking of any view other than "The ELL is brillliant, end off la la la la, not listening, not listening...."

Merry Xmas said...

Gawd, just read there is no Overground service on Boxing Day. God I hate this town sometimes.

Anonymous said...

There's not - and the Underground union workers have decided to join in on the fun as well. Merry Xmas indeed.

Schindler said...

"Re: standing on the escalator, it's baffling, more than anything"

People aren't choosing to stand on the escalators, its just a matter of a rush of people directly onto the escalator takes out the step space needed resulting in a traffic jam, same science as with phantom jams on the motorway. Personally I take the people free up then down route which takes no longer.

Schindler said...

"Re: standing on the escalator, it's baffling, more than anything"

People aren't choosing to stand on the escalators, its just a matter of a rush of people directly onto the escalator takes out the step space needed resulting in a traffic jam, same science as with phantom jams on the motorway. Personally I take the people free up then down route which takes no longer.

Anonymous said...

A small voice in the wilderness said... Oooh, an ELL debate! I love it. It whizzes me from NC t Whitechapel in nearly no time at all, I alway get a seat and it costs almost no money. I lurve it! I lurve it!

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