Serious police incident in Crofton Park [UPDATED]

Reports are coming in of a "serious incident" in Crofton Park this evening, with a heavy police presence near the station. More details to come.

UPDATE: The police have now provided the following statement:

We can confirm there was an incident at Brockley Road, SE4 at approx 19:10 hours yesterday A man in his 20s was taken to hospital where he remains in a stable condition Detectives from the Trident Gang Crime Command are investigating.

UPDATE: The News Shopper reports:

A man is in hospital suffering from gunshot wounds after an attack in Brockley. Police were called to the incident in Brockley Road at around 7.10pm last night (Aug 14), following reports of shots fired.

UPDATE: Police are now appealing for witnesses to contact their incident room on 0208 785 8580 or crimestoppers 0800 555 111.

107 comments:

Manwood said...

Any more news on this?

SamB_UK said...

For what it's worth, I walked past there just after 23:00 and there was nothing around... no police, no nothing. Must have been sorted out pretty quickly.

Barbara said...

Hazeldon Road still behind police tape with a few cops when I went past on Brockley Rd at 11 and there was a lady sitting on the pavement looking distressed.

Anonymous said...

There was a shooting someone got killed

david said...

Really? There was no evidence of any disturbance when I went to the Co-Op at 10. Not saying it didn't happen just surprised as clearing up a shooting usually takes hours. Any confirmed details, Nick?

Anonymous said...

Went through at 10:30. Absolutely nothing going on...

Anonymous said...

I cycled past at 7.15pm and the police seemed to have just arrived. Then was passing on the way home around 11.10pm and police were still there and a large area cordoned off.

KennyTinsel said...

I drove past the junction of Brockley Road / Hazeldon Road soon after 7pm, couple of police vehicles and officers in both normal uniform and some that looked liked they were wearing some kind of armoured vest (could well have been firearms officers) seemed interested in the flats above/behind Krizz Kutzs.

Anonymous said...

No news coverage so can't be that bad.
there was a drugs bust on whitbread road a week or so back and it was a similar sight... cordoned off area, police in stab vests (the standard now I believe) and a white tent but not really news worthy.

Molewife said...

I went by at 11ish and my suspicion was also drug bust, they had cordoned off half of Hazledon and were taking big evidence bags of stuff out but it seemed fairly relaxed and there was no obvious sign of violence etc.

Kate said...

it was a shooting. man in hospital. Trident investigating

Paul said...

Ironic that its comes directly after a story about higher density living and falling violent crime. Just shows how meaningless that load of cod-sociology guff is. But I guess anything to get the chattering classes to feel better about high rise blocks being built in their neighbourhood.

Brockley Nick said...

@Paul - I was wondering whether anyone would be crass enough to try that line of argument, but even accepting that one incident (the details of which we don't yet know) is evidence of anything very much, it's worth pointing out that Crofton Park is a relatively low-rise, low-density part of the borough.

kolp said...

Why did you go create a thread on this story without any verifiable facts?

Brockley Nick said...

@Kolp - what on earth are you talking about?

Science said...

@ Paul

The article you're referring to suggested a correlation between an increase in population density and a reduction in crime.

The author of the study gathered evidence of population densities and crime levels and published their observations for peer review.

I'm guessing that your research into Crofton Park's population density and crime levels has not been quite so thorough?

Perhaps you are suggesting that the shooting incident de-bunks the findings of the research? A single event (whilst tragic, serious and very local) does not trump a large body of observational data.

Science said...

@ Paul

The article you're referring to suggested a correlation between an increase in population density and a reduction in crime.

The author of the study gathered evidence of population densities and crime levels and published their observations for peer review.

I'm guessing that your research into Crofton Park's population density and crime levels has not been quite so thorough?

Perhaps you are suggesting that the shooting incident de-bunks the findings of the research? A single event (whilst tragic, serious and very local) does not trump a large body of observational data.

Tamsin said...

"Ironic that its comes directly after a story about higher density living and falling violent crime. Just shows how meaningless that load of cod-sociology guff is."

Fundamental misapprenhsion about statistics there. Overall gun crime can be falling but there are still obviously the incidents that make up those falling figures. Just fewer of them.

'O' Level maths. said...

Paul, my grandad smoked 50 a day and died waterskiing. Which demonstrates that these so called "scientists" studying teamed of "data" on cancer and heart disease are fools. Either that or you "dont understand"

U Sea Kolp said...

@ Kolp

The 'facts' reported by BC were that "Reports are coming in of a serious police incident near Crofton Park Station."

I can personally verify that this is true as I saw those same reports posted on twitter.

Meanwhile, in other news, local people like to be informed of serious incidents even before official press releases are made - you know, like, there might be people with guns running about shooting each other...

for what its worth said...

Kolp = Catman with greater spelling skills

kolp said...

This thread was created last night.

Why not wait til facts were in before creating it?

It's straightforward no hidden agenda question.


kolp said...

Also in defence of Paul's posting, and the 'crass correlation' between this thread and the higher density living. Nick on twitter, tweeted the following 23hrs ago:

"Why Brockley's population rise is making you less likely to be shot... http://fb.me/sSdkqI1d "

" it's worth pointing out that Crofton Park is a relatively low-rise, low-density part of the borough."

Brockley Nick said...

@Kolp - such facts as I had been able to establish last night I reported then.

Once I had established further facts this morning, I reported them.

What is your question?

Seymour Butts said...

Sir,

You expect this sort of nonsense in Catford or New Cross. I'm moving back to St Albans with all my mung kids, my mung wife and my Macbook Air.

Regards

kolp said...

These reports (last night) were they from the police or twitter?

Mb said...

What's the point of a local news blog if it only repeats police or council press releases? Have you not heard of citizen journalism? After all you were happy to make groundless assertions about the police motives on UBR. personally I'm discerning enough to understand that "reports off" don't equal facts. The only alternative is no blog at all and or no comments allowed, including ours

kolp said...

I wish you were more intelligent.

Kate said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Danja said...

It can't be long until Dogwin's Law is invoked on this thread.

Anonymous said...

@SeymourButts I'm sure you won't be missed if you move back to St. Albans. just make sure you don't miss your last train on a night out in London. otherwise you will be forking out for a 100 quid cab fair. it's called pros and cons of living in Zone 2 London buddy. You should have known that when you moved here.

simon said...

I saw the taped off road, a few police and the distressed woman at around 2310 last night. just thought I'd chuck in my 2p.

@kolp - stop being weird.

DJ said...

I think he was attemptng satire Anon. Not surprised you missed that though as it isn't funny and actually doesn't work at all - unless you assume only 'mungs' object to murder.
Of course, that would be monumentally stupid and possibly even offensive to anyone who may be affected by this.
Well done on making yourself look even more of an arsehole than your name suggests, Seymour.

Ben said...

Everyone should be more like DJ who always manages to be tough and funny at the same time. I am sure "Seymour" was put in their place.

Keep up the good work.

Ben said...

Anon

Do you have anymore pros and cons of living in zone 2? I am sure everywhere in zone 2 is the same.

DJ said...

I'm flattered by your attention Ben but I'm just not interested, thanks.

Anonymous said...

Pros:art galleries, museums, bookshops, cinemas, gigs, pubs, theatres, restaurants, ease of getting to and from town.

Cons: people get stabbed, mugged or even worse shot every now and again unfortunately.

Doesn't really what part of zone 2 you live in. If you don't believe me look at the crime stats for london.

whealie said...

My favourite comment is the one that says: "This comment has been removed by the author"

It makes me think I probably agreed with it.

Kolpable said...

@ Kolp

To answer your question:

"Why not wait til facts were in before creating [the thread]?"

If someone heard a rumour that there was a man with a gun outside your house and there were numerous tweets from unconnected people posting similar details, what would you prefer:

a) They post the unverified report on their blog so that you could avoid the aforementioned gun-toting badman.

b) They wait until the story is confirmed before making any mention of the story.

PS in option b) you are shot on your way home.

al said...

Move along there folks there's nothing to see.

Anonymous said...

al, that should be Brockley's new slogan.

Anonymous said...

I hope Mr Burns is ok

MooSnr said...

Everytime I read a chain of comments on this blog I can't help but imagine Nick slowly shaking his head in disbelief and wondering yet again why on earth he bothers.

Anonymous said...

Nick....you're great!

hazeladams said...

Actually with reference to Whitbread Road above, the white tent and police were there for a week and it wasn't a drugs bust. It seems to have been a domestic tragedy, as far as we know.

Anonymous said...

Looks like a shooting Lewisham is no longer considered news as BBC London were only reporting the fire at Hither Green.

Isn't this the third shooting in recent years in Brockley?

Brockley Cross, April 2010
Foxberry Road, April 2010

At the time a councillor said....

Green councillor for Brockley, Dean Walton, said: "Local residents and any possible future residents need to be reassured that these incidents are not going to become a regular feature in Brockley and residents can continue to get about in relative safety.

And? said...

any shooting is one too many, the last one is over two years ago or only two years ago depending on on whether you think we are no better or worse than most of london or live in Dodge City.

My predictions, there will be more shhotings and violence in london. Some people are violent, I choose to live here and will remain. It's really not especially deadly compared to anywhere else. This is where someone trawls through stats and discovers that soem Norfolk village hasnt had a shooting since 1926. Trouble is I'd have to live in Norfolk.

Anytime soon said...

Norfolk'n chance of that happening

kolp said...

It's fine to appreciate this blog and Nick's efforts it's also fine to ask questions about how things work.

Crime and the reporting of crime is a sensitive topic as it can affect people's perceptions about where they live and a give a heightened and unncecessary sense of risk.

Look at the some of the posts seemingly sensible responding to me, but which outline completely outlandish scenarios in an attempt to justify the reporting of this incident.

It appears that the police had the situation under control at all times. There was no madman running around, to shoot anyone on 'their way home'.

I am sure Nick has the best intentions but there is something about the reporting of this I did not like. I can't quite put my finger on it. I suppose it's like this blog is trying to be a “Breaking News service” a CNN for Brockley and it just doesn't work.

The comments on this were supposed to be helpful, I guess to 'crowd source' more info but having people saying contradictory stuff; there's no police. there is police", a man was killed, a man in hospital” creates a sense of chaos and I'm not sure how it helps.

Anonymous said...

Wasn't there a Howson Road shooting as well, more recently than April 2010?

Anonymous said...

where were you on the night of the shooting, kolp?

Anonymous said...

to be honest, the guy that got shot is probably not an upstanding member of the community. so unless you're someone who has links to underground drugs or weapons world, you probably haven't got too much to be worried about.

Anonymous said...

it doesn't help. Nick didn't say that, SOME commentators did. Some comentators post speculative, imflamatory musings on other threads. For example the closure of shops due to continual disruption to their neigbours. The internet is wonderful precisly because it's a little chaotic. People have misinterpreted information information since 5,000BC when Ugg accued the neighbouing village of steeling all the best flint.

Stories like this are too small for the BBC and often missed by our local press. This forum is perfectly placed to report, idiots making wild theories or drawing broad assumptions based on a sample of one incident is the price.

Anonymous said...

Very tragic, why do they keep shooting each other..?

Anonymous said...

To make the middle classes feel uncomfortable.

Glass three quaters full said...

Why have people ever been violent toward each other? bit of a rhetorical question. We live in less violent times than 'the old days'

As a previous person said, the reality is that in general vilent people find themselves in situations where violence is done to them.

Be happy.

Brockley Nick said...

@Kolp - the reporting of the story was proportionate and responsible. Based on multiple reliable witnesses, I said there was a serious police incident by Crofton Park Station and there was.

I was 99% certain that there had been a shooting, but I did not report that until I had had it confirmed from reliable sources and reported it as soon as it was.

At no time was any of the reporting sensational. I didn't employ any superfluous adjectives or emotive language. But a shooting in the area is worthy of reporting.

I don't mind if accurate reporting of what is happening makes you uncomfortable. If you'd rather pretend such things don't happen, don't read the site.

kolp said...

No that's fine, of course you post whatever you like. It's your site, you do it for free. Who cares if people have concerns.

Anonymous said...

Christ Kolp - are you 12? There was an incident and it was reported on a local blog.
Nobody else seems to have a problem with this - do you wonder why?

Anonymous said...

Is this the same Kolp that was claiming racist motives in the recent shop closures thread?
"I'm not sure how it helps" indeed.

Anonymous said...

Kolp, I think the concerns you raised were answered and now we're down to the ones you cant quite put your finger on.

kolp said...

Nick knows what I was alluding to...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensationalism

Brockley Nick said...

No, I don't.

Lep Recorn said...

Anon 10:09

I can immediately think of at least two incidents where bystanders, including a 5 year old girl, have been killed or seriously injured when non-upstanding members of the community start shooting at each other.

So, unless 'you're someone who has links to underground drugs or weapons world' or in the wrong place at the wrong time 'you probably haven't got too much to be worried about'.

Statistically I am not worried, but I would estimate my chances of getting shot are probably higher than my chances of winning a million on the lotto. And I buy a ticket every week.

biff bifferson said...

i love.. lamp

Tamsin said...

@ Anon 10.09 There is something to be concerned about (to the extent of giving full support and whatever assistance one can to the authorities who are trying to ameliorate the situation) - a couple of instances in the last decade of totally innocent people getting caught in the crossfire.

Anonymous said...

Re the assumptian those who get shot are low life....can I remind you of Magda Pniewska whon was shot dead whilst walking home or more recently Michael Ofori who was mistaken as someone else and shot through the head.

kolp said...

Nick I've noticed that you've deleted my comment with the link to the wiki page on Sensationalism.

Not shot said...

Yes, remind away. Innocent perfectly law abiding people are victims. But are FAR LESS likley to be a victim of Violent crime compared to those who inhabit that world.

That's all, it's a fact.

Of course we don't know the circumstances surrounding this incident and the law is there to protect everyone even "bad" people.

Now get about your day, you probably won't be shot.

Doh! said...

Sigh...yes kolp. Sensationalism is "A VERY BAD THING" "Reports are coming in of a "serious incident" in Crofton Park this evening, with a heavy police presence near the station. More details to come." Isn't sensationalism.

Most people are able to decern, you obviously believe that most people who read this blog are idiots or that you are the arbiter of what counts as constructive speculation - re racist shop closures.

Anonymous said...

...actually your link is still there. Doesn't really alter the essential wrongness of your position.

kolp said...

The comment has returned.

I suppose the format of hyperlocal blogging has a tendency towards sensationalism. Stories are accentuated serious or otherwise.

My comments on this were not about the wording Nick used, it's the manner of the thing. That breaking news style, the [updates] and the [updated updates] The sparse details because of lack of verifable facts at the time of posting.

It takes a lot to make the Newshopper look like a sober publication but this thread and the comments managed...

anyway enjoy the rest of your day.

kolp out!

attendant said...

Thanks, Kolp. Please pick your toys up on your way out?

Anonymous said...

I am sure the chances of being shot are much higher for criminals who fall out with other violent criminals as opposed to innocent members of the public.

However, innocent members of public are at a much higher risk if they live next door or in the same street as these desperados.

Crofton Park saw someone shot in the street in Howson Rd, now this.

I would expect it makes local residents very nervous indeed to know that there are criminals having shootouts in the neighbourhood.

DJ said...

I'm not sure Kolp is reading the same thread I'm reading: A report of an incident in Crofton Park followed by a few comments from people reporting what they have seen/heard.
That is what I want from a hyperlocal blog - information about where I live that might affect me.

Some people are just weird.

Alby said...

Wondering if there has been any development on this incident? Have any arrests been made?

It's such a sh*t thing to happen in your neighbourhood. However symptomatic of inner-city living it may or may not be, it's a sad and depressing story. I hope the perpetrators are caught quickly and that it remains a one-off.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous (09:33) There was a fatal shooting on Howson Road in May 2010, helpfully reported on by Nick here

http://brockleycentral.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/two-men-charged-with-howson-road-murder.html

@hazeladams I live on Whitbread Rd and never actually managed to find out what happened with regards to the white tent and permanent police presence for a week, despite reading the local press (after the police put a leaflet through the door asking for information and telling us not to be alarmed by what we may have read in the local press!)

Anonymous said...

Kolp, please tell me you see the irony in you accusing lewisham and the police of ethnic cleansing on one theread despite due process being followed and complaining about nick saying police are looking at a serious incident (which they were)

I know which of those are more speculative and inflammatory.

AliAliAfro said...

@ Kolp

I posted the Kolp gets shot on the way home post.

I live right next to Crofton Park station and about 100 metres from the road that was the scene of the crime. I was very grateful for BC posting this story when they did. Other than via BC I have heard nothing from the Police (not that I would particularly expect to and thats not a criticism).

My example certainly was a bit sensationalist (unlike Nicks original blog post) but I was just trying to make a point:

Local people want to know what is going on locally and don't need police verification of
their own, trusted neighbours and friend's eyewitness accounts.

And you are quite right that people don't want or need sensationalism when it comes to matters of crime. If Nick had posted something saying reports are coming in about a serious police incident in Crofton Park, who knows, it might be a madman runnning around shooting people, lets form a possee and get some pitchforks - Then that would be sensationalist...

but he didn't did he? he said he had received reports of a serious incident in Crofton Park - which was exactly what had happened.

Thank you very much BC and keep up the good work.

Anonymous said...

Bring back borstal.

Ray said...

I'm the daddy now!

Misty eyed said...

When I was a lad it was big yellow police signs asking for information as far as the eye could see.

Anonymous said...

The headline "Serious police incident...." does lend itself to implying the incident was the result of police action.

Read the words said...

@ anon 8.17 (Kolp?)

Whatever you thought the headline might indicate, reading the words in the story should clear up any misunderstanding that you may have had.

Anonymous said...

If that were so...then there would not have been the speculation between 23:37 Aug 14 and 11:50 Aug 15 (see above).

The original story carried no information, hence the [update] about 12 hours after the headline appeared.

Read the words said...

Dear Anon.

Really?

So BC is not allowed to post a story incase somebody somewhere might speculate on it?

Well in that case we either shut down the blog or ban the commenters.

At each stage BC report only what it had heard from trusted sources - initially that there were a load of police around crofton park. In my book, unless someone dropped a box of donuts, that sounds like a serious police incident to me.

Brockley Nick said...

Anon, none of the "speculation" related to whether the police might have done something bad, so I don't understand your point.

Anonymous said...

The original story had no information as to what sort of "Serious police incident.." had occured.

In February a man was shot 3 times by police in Forest Hill.

Where in the original headline or story was it indicated this was not a similar incident?

Look at the comments at the top of this thread by people claiming to have passed the scene which appear to be at odds with each other.

It was another 12 hours at 11:50 the next day Kate stated as fact a man shot and Trident investigating.

If Nick knew from trusted sources what had happened why did the original story not contain any detail?

It may have been better to have have dropped the word 'Police' or have written..."Police attend serious incident..."



kolp said...

A couple of things.

1. I'm not posting and have not posted as "anonymous" on this thread.

speaking of which to this person "AliAliAfro ... who wrote the following:

"I posted the Kolp gets shot on the way home post."

fantasting about a fellow poster and someone quite possibly your neighbour getting shot. Nice! and people think I'm a weirdo!

I'm making no further comments on nature of this thread as I've said what I needed to. The points I've raised are clear for those who have the ability to comprehend them.

Read the Words said...

@anon

Thats the point! He couldnt say it wasn't a man being shot by police because he didn't know!

All Nick had heard at that time was that there was a serious police incident as evidenced by lots of police cars near crofton park. So he chose a headline saying Serious police Incident in Crofton Park and then relayed what he had heard in the body text.

Nothing in title or text mentioned the nature of the police's involvement and as Nick pointed out no one else appears to have speculated on this in the time between the story being posted and the actual circumstances being established and reported...


How you can cling to some sort of argument that this is anything other than responsible calm reporting is beyond me.

Mb said...

Kolp, we understand them. We just don't agree with them.....you get that? Don't you?

DJ said...

I'm amazed too. It all seems perfectly clear to me - if anyone is confused by the headline or the article then perhaps some kind of adult education might be in order.

AliAliAfro said...

But I wasn't fantasising was I Kolp?

I was making a point about how if someone got shot on your road you might want to know about it. I've yet to hear you address this simple concept.

Admittedly my post was a bit extreme and blunt but it was a valid point and instead of responding with a rational argument the best you can do is try and twist my words and claim I am fantasising about you being shot.

Look I respect you right to differing opinions but slinging mud at people just makes your arguments look weak.

Anonymous said...

@DJ

How does "Serious Police Incident..." and article on the lines of something (unspecified) happened make anything clear?

You only have to look at the first four comments to see how unclear the original article was.

What's there now was not present originally.

Anonymous said...

@AliAliAfro

The point seems to have been lost on you...if Kolp had been shot he would not need someone to tell him.

Anonymous said...

Let's recap:

"Reports are coming in of a "serious incident" in Crofton Park this evening, with a heavy police presence near the station. More details to come."

Sensationalist? How?

Anonymous said...

@Read the words

Thats the point! He couldnt say it wasn't a man being shot by police because he didn't know!

If nothing was known how is the headline..."Serious police incident..." calm or justified?

The headline could have been better worded...end of conversation.

DJ said...

@Anonymous.
What's clear is that there was a serious incident in Crofton Park, with a heavy police presence near the station.

It's called 'news'. It changes as more information is available but the basic facts are clear.
A serious incident. In Crofton park. Police involvement.

This is like talking to my 3 year old.

Read the Words said...

@ anon

Comprehension Fail.

"If nothing was known how is the headline..."Serious police incident..." calm or justified?"

I didn't say "nothing was known", I said he didn't know if a man had been shot by police.

It wasn't the case that nothing was known: We knew that there was a serious police incident in Crofton Park as indicated by loads of police cars. This was reported in a calm and justified manner. Its really that simple.

Given that no one else misunderstood the meaning of the post between the story being posted and the update confirming the facts, it would appear that that the problem was not the author's wording but with your lack of comprehension.

You are complaining that something could be misleading when no-one was mislead by it! Ipso Facto!

(I've always wanted to say that).

Plain English Monitor said...

'ipso facto' should be replaced with 'by the facts themselves'.

Latinus said...

'ipso facto' should be replaced with 'by the facts themselves'.

Definitely not.

Worked Example said...

by the facts themselves, the post was not misleading as no one was mislead...

Brian said...

People called Romanus, they go in the house?

It had to be said said...

What have the Romans ever done for us?

Anonymous said...

Are there window cleaning scams going on? A chap called round today and said he could do our windows "by" Tuesday which I thought was an odd expression. Maybe I am too cynical? He claimed to be doing the windows at the college in a very non plausible manner. Anyone else see him?

Anonymous said...

Speaking of incidents, I'm thinking of getting a place in Ladywell, and come across a place in Slagrove Place and also came across the Black Maff.

Have you guys experienced any problems with gangs such as Black Maff???

Appreciate your input

Realist said...

I have, they are scared little boys trying to ape Gangsta Rap stars and they're supposedly glamorous lifestyles. The truth is, if they went to L.A they would be crying fr they're single mummy's within a couple of days.
The fact that they embrace such a negative culture and role models is seriously depressing.
They are just children trying to play big boys games.

Brockley Central Label Cloud

Click one of the labels below to see all posts on that subject. The bigger the label, the more posts there are!