The Brockley Central Interview: Cllr Heidi Alexander (Part II)

A few weeks ago, we had the opportunity to interview Cllr Heidi Alexander about some of the issues facing our area. You can read the first part of our interview with Cllr Alexander here.


What are the big development opportunities in Brockley?

Aside from the Martin's Yard site, the Timber Yard at Brockley Cross is a key priority for us. We hope to redevelop it as a mixed use site, but although we have held discussions with a number of potential developers for a number of years, there are currently no active discussions.

That's bound to disappoint people who've been waiting many years for something to be done to Brockley Cross. The Tea Factory will hopefully play a positive role in the area, but there are a number of semi-derelict buildings there - right in the middle of Brockley, next to what will be a tube station in a couple of years. If the developers aren't biting at the moment, it's presumably got a lot to do with the terrible road layout at Brockley Cross. Are there any plans to finally sort out the traffic system there, if only because of the high number of road accidents it currently creates?

As you may know, the Council did investigate the options a while back [alternative layouts can be seen on the Brockley Cross Action Group website, in the masterplanning section]. Before we can make any changes, we need to properly understand the impact this will have on traffic in the area more widely - changes to the system can have profound knock-on effects. Unfortunately, we don't have the budget to commission that work at the moment. We need to raise it from Transport for London and, at the moment, the Council's priorities are the New Cross gyratory system and the roads in Sydenham.

It's a difficult decision and I agree that the road system in Brockley Cross is far from ideal. I would love to tackle it - along with many others in Lewisham. I can't make any promises today, but we are very aware of the issue and will address it as soon as possible.

It's impossible to keep everyone happy when you have to prioritise, but many people we've talked to and who have posted on Brockley Central in the past feel that the Council places too much focus on Lewisham and Catford town centres, to the detriment of other parts of the borough. What's your response to those concerns?

Lewisham Borough is absolutely not just about Lewisham and Catford. But they are our two largest centres, both of which need significant investment, and it is right that they should be a key focus for us. Brockley is an exciting opportunity, thanks to the arrival of the East London Line and our challenge is to help add to the interest that the project will generate.

Which brings us back to Lewisham Way and Brockley Road. One recent application to redevelop a car dealership on Brockley Road was turned down. In rejecting it, the Council highlighted concerns about the quality of design. But it also suggested that any non-residential-led development on that site would be inappropriate, because there are a number of empty shops in the area and the size of the site might lend itself to something like a chain restaurant, which would not primarily cater for "local" people and might therefore add to parking problems in the area. But isn't there a case to suggest that a "destination" restaurant might help to draw new people and therefore new businesses in to the area - to take up some of the empty shops? And isn't it reasonable to assume that a lot of people in Brockley might want a few more options to eat out locally? Or that visitors might come by public transport, especially when the ELL arrives?

I can't comment on that particular proposal, but we're not opposed to bringing in chains or larger restaurants to Brockley. It's true that commercial space is currently confined to a number of clusters along the road and our preference is that we develop those existing clusters, rather than stretching them.

Beyond Brockley, what are the most significant developments in Lewisham?

In Lewisham Town Centre, we are currently awaiting a detailed application and we hope that work will start next year on the road layout, rivers and services. At the nearby Loampit Vale Site we are currently working with Barratt on pre-application consultation to create new homes, a community swimming pool and leisure facilities. We're really determined to create a top-quality swimming pool facility. Currently, the plan is to create a swimming pool with an 'active frontage' - large windows that look out over Cornmill Gardens and on to outdoor space, where people can get a coffee or something to eat. It will be a very accessible site.

At Convoys Wharf in Deptford, the GLA were initially very supportive of our plans, but during the planning process, they changed their position on safeguarded wharves and the landowners News International were asked to carry out additional work on this issue. That work has only recently been finalised and the GLA are now considering it and we're waiting to hear whether the application can proceed.

And in New Cross, we're in discussions about the site currently occupied by Sainsbury. There are a number of options being considered at the moment, including rebuilding New Cross Gate Station and bringing the store forward, closer to the road, to create more space for new homes.


[Click here for more information about developments in Lewisham]


  • Thanks to Cllr Alexander for her time. During the interview, she offered to go on a walk-round of Brockley with some BC readers, to understand the issues that concern them most. We will be publishing details of that initiative in the coming days...

79 comments:

Hugh said...

Best thing done for Lewisham was by the Germans during the war. Pity they weren't given the chance to finish the job.

Anonymous said...

Yeah those bloody RAF in their spitfires! Damn them all!

Brockley Kate said...

I am extremely disappointed to hear the council's attitude towards Brockley Cross. If all that's holding it up is a traffic impact analysis then I'd expect to see the council being a bit more pro-active about working with local groups to source funding. It really does feel as though Brockley's problems just aren't a priority.

It's a shame there aren't any figures given about how much the traffic impact analysis would cost, does anyone reading this know anything about this area of work?

Anonymous said...

i heard that the richard rogers designed development for convoys wharf had beed scrapped altogether. This blog seems to differ? Anyone know?

Brockley Nick said...

@Kate - I agree that it's very frustrating. The New Cross system certainly needs sorting, but the single most important investment the Council could make in Brockley would be to fix that roundabout system. In terms of knock-on effects, the current system already diverts too much traffic down what are supposed to be residential streets, so it's hard to see how the effects of a new system could be worse...

Headhunter said...

Most of the destruction of SE London was towards the end of the war by V1 and V2 rockets destined for the docks falling a little short, rather than the Luftwaffe. For example there's a brass plaque in the pavement outside M&S in Lewisham centre commemorating the death of many people when a V2 landed on Lewisham market

Moira said...

A few years ago, BXAG volunteers spent an hour one weekday morning doing a count of the number of vehicles entering onto Brockley Cross. When the figure was given to Lewisham Traffic dept they were very surprised as it exceeded the number of vehicles using Lewisham Way at the same time.

I can't quite remember the figure, but I think it ran into double figures (thousands) to do a proper survey of the impact of changing the B Cross layout. However, the designs are all there from the BXAG's masterplanning exercise - it just needs Lewisham Council to put in £20k or so of money into it.

nsfr said...

Good to hear considerations are being discussed re: rebuilding New Cross Gate station. It is already way over capacity at peak times, especially the stairs down to the London Bridge platform.

Monkeyboy said...

If traffic analysis is similar to 'Pedroute' analysis undertaken on the Tube system (to plan new or altered stations) then yes, it can be pricy. Collecting car numbers is only the start, you have to pay a specialist to do the sums to calculate the knock on effect - I think. Also I think I'm right in saying that 'B' roads (Malpas road) are not the responsibility of the local authority? TfL would have to give permission so not simply a Lewisham issue. Beware Master Planning excercises or 'feasability studies' they tend to give the result that the client wants - unless challenged appropriatly.

lb said...

I wish councillors would try and avoid using bloated, non-committal mandarin language. What exactly is the difference between a "swimming pool facility" and a "swimming pool"? Does the fact that something is a "key focus" make it any more of a focus than, erm, just a "focus"?

It's always a bit depressing to wade through some bit of Byzantine syntax only to find that it actually says very little at all.

lb said...

"I also felt - and still feel - that there are lots of very good talkers in local politics and not as many good listeners" (another interview with Cllr Alexander).

Indeed.

Brockley Nick said...

To be fair lb, that may be my transcribing, rather than her exact phraseology, but the point is that it will be more than just a swimming pool, there will be other stuff including a gym.

Do dah said...

I want Lewisham council to improve the life for the people already here, by sorting things like the roundabout. These latest developments mean there's going to be a surge in the population.

Each new person and family will have needs desires, and this means they'll be even more competition for the council's time and resources, from a council that does n't appear to be coping.

The council may think 'let's put lots of housing in, because we can garner council tax receipts, but if Lewisham as council is not delivering to people who earn money, then they will move out and chose not to live here.

lb said...

Fair enough. It's just that it doesn't, well, say a whole lot, does it?

lb said...

[do dah] One would assume that traffic impact studies would be carried out as part of any large development. If they aren't, then they ought to be.

tyrwhitt michael said...

How can we expect Lewisham to sort out Brockley Cross - (option 1 on the BXAG site is the only one that makes any sense by the way) - when their proposal for managing traffic through the Lewisham Gateway is a ludicrous "lazy H" junction.

Their own figures predict the traffic flow will be slower than it is now with the large roundabout, so what will happen when traffic flows, as they no doubt will, increase?

You think the traffic is bad now....

Brockley Nick said...

@tm
Your post assumes that the objective in either case is to speed up traffic flow. It isn't, it's to create better spaces for people. People first, cars second.

patrick1971 said...

Interesting to read about the proposals for Sainsbury's at New Cross Gate. I used to work for Sainsbury's (in Head Office, not the New Cross branch, before any of you jokers say anything) and the NXG branch was often visited by management because it was the closest store in central London that was anywhere near as big as the majority of the estate. They always remarked on how far back it was from the road and how they wished it were closer, so there's certainly an appetite from Sainsbury's to move it.

They also, when I worked there, were looking into doing more housing development on their estate (similar to what Asda has done at Feltham - about three storeys of flats on top of a traditional one-storey supermarket), so will be interesting to see if that comes to pass.

creepylesbo said...

But if they close Sainsburys in order to move it, where will all of us who don't have cars go to shop? The nearest other store is Aldi on the Old Kent Road and that's a hike and a half back home from there.

Anonymous said...

Tesco Lewisham
ASDA Old Kent Road
Sainsburys Lewisham

The availabity is all there, especially the first one. Open all hours!

Brockley Kate said...

Sainsburys & Tesco in Lewisham?

Brockley Nick said...

Maybe they'll put the new one up before they knock the old one down. These things don't take long to build.

Tressillian James said...

Creepy... Sainsbury's aint gonna let 'em close them down whilst building work goes on - too much trade to be lost. Even if the council own the land - all Sainsbury's would have to do, is threaten not to return

Headhunter said...

It certainly does make sense to move Sainsbury's forward both for Sainsbury's and to make more space for housing which apparently we desperately need.

It's space wasting like this, all the derelict sites around Brockley station, the enormous site at Convoys Wharf and even small sites like that derelict council block on the west side of the station along, I think Arabin Rd or something, that make it ridiculous to argue that there should me more development in the conservation area - filling in gaps between houses, building on gardens etc, to create more "desperately needed" housing.

If housing is so desperately needed, lets get Convoys Wharf sorted for a start - thouands of derelict acres there!

Trying to cram more housing into the cons area is not necessary and just blatant profiteering by construction companies.

tyrwhitt michael said...

Nick

Speeding up the flow does put people first.

Traffic jams increase fuel consumption and pollution.

Both are anti-people in my view.

Danja said...

Sainsbury's now own the whole NXG site, I think - part of that deal they did with British Land(??). They would presumably just build over a bunch of car park, and then demolish the old one.

The NDC really want to get rid of the petrol station (see the masterplan on their website somewhere).

Bea said...

Anyway - aren't there plans to put a 20 mph speed limit through most roads in Lewisham? Which would apparently improve the flow (like the M25 I guess?)

Tressillian James said...

I'm looking forward to the 20MPH - was nearly mowed down with the dog this morning on the corner of Tressillian and Harefield. Would be great if Sue Luxton has news of this. Oh..and I'm a car driver - but see the sense of it

Anonymous said...

We have 20 mph on my road St Asaph and it hasn't seemed to make any difference to the speed of cars whizzing down there.

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry, but Brockley (well I) says NO to 20mph. We londoners who work hard to keep our cars need to keep moving as much as possible to counterbalance the days of our lives that we spend shuffling between traffic lights and jams.

TM said...

I've got a good idea one which would also save lots of energy.

Switch off all - yes I mean all - the traffic lights.

Traffic usually flows better when they break down and they must use two or three nuclear power station's worth of power nationwide.

What do the Greens or Boris for that matter think?

Anonymous said...

Boris is up for a rephase of the lights I believe. The thing about turning them off completely, aside from possible Mumbai-like conditions on London's streets - is that people would rightly or wrongly blame it for every single accident and death that would happen on the roads. Politics, my dear.

Headhunter said...

The 20mph limit has already come into force across most of Lewisham I think. Certainly a lot of roads now have a big 20 inside a white circle painted on them.

Damn pointless if you ask me - the police/authorities couldn't enforce the 30mph speed limit which has been in place for many decades judding by the number of cars tha whizz around Brockley at 40 and above, so now they think that all of a sudden everyone including boy racers are going to trundle along at 20?! What a joke! Waste of white paint and council funding.

As I've said before, the council shouldn't do something unless it can follow through and back it up properly and you can bet that the council and police will not have extra funding to enforce a 20mph limit on every residential road in Lewisham.

The Cat Man said...

Hh, the success of the scheme will depend on the respect for the scheme and in a wider context, authority. Presumably alot of people have kids and would recognize the improvements in road safety stemming from this.( We all know the horrifying child death statisics).

The police should only really get involved if a a person/group of people lack respect for the community around them so I wouldnt neccessarily see police enforcement as an issue.

I welcome the introduction.

Danja said...

If it is anything like the Telegraph Hill 20mph zone it will make next to no difference (and that included introducing humps/cushions).

Headhunter said...

Road humps make a difference to speeds, especially for the boy racers with their front spoilers which get ripped off or smashed if they pass over the humps at any more than about 5mph. Certainly along Manor Ave people cannot fly along very fast, however the noise of cars constantly speeding up and slowing down, speeding up, slowing down can be annoying.

However arbitrarily deciding that the speed limit is now 20mph across Lewisham has not made one iota of difference in my experience as a cyclist so far. Even as a cyclist I frequently move faster than 20mph, particularly downhill on Pepys Rd and cars often pass me at well over this speed.

The Cat Man said...

I guess its hard to see the impact unless you are a motorist. As a resident we can comment on our particular road, but we cannot -at the same time- see the non 20 mph roads so how are we in a position to assess whether the frequency of cars has changed?

As a motorist, I feel more safer driving on a 20mph road as I can be more confortable that I'll be able to identify any idiots pulling out/being ignorant of the highways code. (and in London that is a big issue).

As for Pepys road, yes, what can I say.. Its quite exciting riding downhill, its the uphill bit I struggle with!

Danja said...

I have the before and after statistics from the council for Pepys Road, that's how.

patrick1971 said...

Another interesting point about Sainsbury's New Cross Gate is that it actually had the third highest proportion of customers who bought organic and healthy food across the entire Sainsbury's estate. This really puzzled us analysts at the time, and the only thing we could come up with was that there was no Waitrose for competition, so the Sainsbury's was the nearest "nice" food store for miles around and thus had a big catchment area, whereas there were loads of cheaper stores so people who wanted cheap stuff didn't come to Sainsbury's in the first place.

Re the 20mph limit: it always raises a wry smile when I read motorists complaining about congestion...I wonder who they think causes the congestion?

Bea said...

Patrik 1971 - it could of course have been all the green voters from Brockley coming to do their shopping there!?

Headhunter said...

I don't have any stats, but as a frequent cyclist at around the 20mph point all ovew Lewisham, I can tell you that the 20mph limit has made no difference to the speed at which motorists whizz past me so I don't see how anything can be safer since the introduction of the new limit!

That's interesting to hear about the amount of organic sold at Sainsbury's, New Cross. I wonder why therefore, they don't stock more organic produce? When I shop at Sainsbury's in the evening, they have often completely run out of organic stock, and have even often totally run out of many fruit and veggies.

Asda is sooo much better, they have an enormous range and often seem to try to source their food from within the UK rather than flying it halfway round the globe. Only thing is Asda is just that bit further away and a bit more of a hassle to cycle to and from.

Tressilliana said...

Talking of raising a wry smile - when my daughter was a baby I met another woman with a tiny child who said to me, completely seriously:

'I drove here because I'm worried about him breathing all the pollution if I take him out in his pushchair.'

I was tempted to say that I quite understood that my child's welfare couldn't be any sort of priority for her, but I think I would have been wasting my time.

Anonymous said...

the 'swimming pool facility' would replace the current 33m ladywell pool with a 25m pool. Presumably just in time for the 2012 olympics. What is needed is a 50m pool, otherwise ladywell should stay.

Someone said, and i see no reason not to believe it, there are more 50m pools in Paris than the whole of England.

Meantime this is the season for early morning swims in Brockwell lido.

lb said...

Yes, yes, but the "swimming pool facility" has an "active frontage".

Which turns out to be 'some big windows'.

Anonymous said...

V1s and V2s disproportionately hit south London due to the government deciding to sacrifice us to save central London. Two 'turned' German spys were made to send reports saying that the missiles were landing 'long' in North London, when they were quite accurate. The effect was that South (and particularly South East) London took a pasting.

The least they could do sixty years later is sort out Brockley Cross by way of an apology!

Brockley Nick said...

@lb, the windows are important. One of the concerns about the pool was that it would have no natural light.

As for the question of it not being 33m, unless you are training for competitions, 25m is perfectly good. It's true there is a shocking lack of 50m pools in the uk, but 33m ladywell doesn't solve that.

And having lots of big pools hasn't made france a great swimming nation.

In all sports, we need to differentiate between elite and grassroots. The need in lewisham, I would argue, is for accessible facilities, which encourage the maximum number of people to do exercise. I think the lewisham site is better in this regard than ladywell. Max disagrees with this.

In an ideal world we would have more pools.

lb said...

[BN] Good - it's just that the phrase "active frontage" sounds like a typical piece of developer's gibberish. Does the Nunhead pool have these 'window' things?

lb said...

Pardon me, Ladywell not Nunhead.

lb said...

Ah yes, an "active frontage" appears to be visible in the background here.

Brockley Nick said...

Lb if you think ladywell pool is a great facility in a great location for the lewisham public, just say so.

I don't care for the phrase either but an active frontage is more than big windows, it means those windows face out onto pleasant surroundings and a cafe, rather than a grotty old paved area and a main road. The argument for doing this is that successful community sports facilities are those which provide a pleasant environment for those who aren't taking part, as well as those that are. Eg: parents will be more inclined to take kids to the pool if they have somewhere nice to sit and wait during classes. It's the kind of model they adopt in places like... France.

lb said...

I think it's in a perfectly good location, yes.

Frankly I know very little about the whole thing - I was just alerted by the phrase "active frontage". I now note that the original plan had the pool in some kind of bunker, which probably explains the wording - everyone is keen to prove what kind, considerate developers / councillors they are.

Apologies for the cynicism, it's just that I'm conscious of the economic and political realities which go on under this kind of stuff. I'm also sick of phrases like "active frontage".

Anonymous said...

Don't think there were ever serious plans to have it underground or windowless. Think it was a misunderstanding.

Tressilliana said...

I've also always thought it was a perfectly good location but I think of how to get to places on foot or by public transport. It occurs to me that people who want to get about by car probably do find the location tricky because there is no free parking, or only very little, as far as I'm aware. Will the new site be any better from that point of view? I have to say that as somebody who thinks there are far too many cars on the roads in Brockley and Lewisham, I rather hope people are encouraged to get there by other means.

Loampit Vale certainly won't be as convenient for the schools within walking distance of Ladywell Pool which use it for lessons. They'll have to get there by bus or go to one of the other pools by bus.

Headhunter said...

Looking forward to this arriving in Lewisham. I'm a member of the London Fitness Network which allows free entry to gyms and pools across a lot of the boroughs of London, hopefully this 1 will be included.

Re the V2s, heard quite a few wartime stories like that, another one a teacher at school told us, was that the British government knew that the Germans were planning a massive attack on Coventry (which resulted in huge destruction and loss of life), through use of code breaking and radar, but did not want to do anything about it for fear of giving away their advantage

Tressilliana said...

That would have been the Enigma intelligence. It's a bit like that horrible moral conundrum where you have to say what you'd do if you could stop a train whose brakes had failed by switching it onto a siding where it would run into a couple of workmen who couldn't be warned to get out of the way in time. By taking a decision which would kill or mutilate them you would save hundreds of lives on the train.

There were several points where lives could have been saved by changing existing plans in the light of information garnered from Enigma. However, if that had been done too often or on too large a scale the Nazis would have worked out that Enigma was blown and changed the code, which would have endangered much larger numbers of lives.

Glad I'm not a military strategist, on many levels.

Monkeyboy said...

...which is why Guardian readers are banned from the military I understand. My mate started reading the Guardian after he left the Navy, his dad (40 years in the RN) refused to give him a lift until he threw it in the bin.

Made me chuckle, now where are my whole wheat knitted underpants?

Headhunter said...

Talking of whole wheat knitted underpants, did anyone see that programme about Primark yesterday evening? Never shop there.

max said...

Ladywell Pool has also a cafe area opening on a very nice garden. Unfortunately it's kept closed.
It is accessible to gardeners though as it's kept nice and tidy by someone.

Ladywell Pool is in the best position to be more accessible to users from Lewisham and Catford Centres and the numbers testify this, over 200,000 swims a year.

On the other hand the new one will be very accessible to the residents of the about 3000 new flats to be built at the Town Centre so its location is strategic for some extra added value to help sales of flats, you never have enough of that these days.
Swimming at Ladywell Pool is one of the best swimming experiences you can have around here.
The pool is longer than standard, it has a serious deep end, the lanes are wide and the quality of the water is excellent.
Now that Ladywell Pool is temporarely closed I'm using Downham Pool and I find it pokey, but Downham on the other hand has nice changing rooms and a working cafe.
By the way, Ladywell Pool also has a sauna and turkish baths that are also kept closed, a closure that costs £40k a year that the Council pays to the contractors for the loss of income.

Anyway my criticism towards the new pool is simply that it's not big enough, with all those new flats so close and all those transport it will be overcrowded and a lot of potential usage just won't happen, only question is who will be left out.
It's a missed opportunity and it's very sad that it is so.

The Cat Man said...

no I didn't, what did it say?

R.e. Enigma. My partner and I went to visit the brogyntin (bad spelling) estate in north wales. We were thinking of buying the old mansion house to renovate, and was fascinated that under neath they still had a ww2 communications centre. Picture doors with old English font, old telephony equipment (with plugs and a desk) and rather alarming signs/bomb proof areas warning of possible attack. It was really quite amazing. Another mansion nearby has a sealed war planning room (there's bodies in it so no one is allowed to open it). But from what I was told picture a military strategy table with movable pieces on it.

Sadly, we couldn't arrange insurance to cover the project :o(

max said...

I'd also say that Ladywell Pool is not just more accessible from Catford but also from Lee/Hither Green as you get there quickly cutting through Hither Green Lane, to get to Loampit Vale you have to go through Lee High Road and then towards and through the roundabout (soon to be low h traffic system) that is well congested.

Anonymous said...

The police should set an example. The way they charge up and down Brockley Rd I am convinced they are ferrying takeaways to Lewisham Police station. It does not exactly encourage other motorists to observe the speed limit.

I refuse to believe that they are always on life or death missions, more likely they see it as one of the perks of the job.

The Cat Man said...

The police set a very good example, generally.

I've been lucky enough to be in a police car a few times now (as a passenger i might add) and it is absolutely amazing how they manage to listen to 3 radios at the same time, navigate the on-board computer whilst navigating the vechicle in an emergency.

I was once in a car going up Deptford high street (when the police was called to a suspected knifing) and the locals started to yell abuse at them with threatening behaviour. What did the police do to deserve this? Nothing. Utterly irresponsible.

@anon, the police get fined by the local council each time they put their sirens on irrespective if they are in an emergency or not. So yes, there is an incentive.

Lets give them a break for a change.

Anonymous said...

..and they manages to get a lamb bhuna, rice AND popadoms back to the station (still hot) without spilling any over the home office issued Astra diesel.

Anonymous said...

Cat Man, saw this on Wikepedia and though of you. Looks like you have a home for your beliefs.

"Fascism" is a term used to describe authoritarian nationalist political ideologies or mass movements that are concerned with notions of cultural decline or decadence and seek to achieve a millenarian national rebirth by exalting the nation or race, and promoting cults of unity, strength and purity.

The Cat Man said...

The bit you left out (obviously on purpose)to try and dis-credit:

"Fascists promote a type of national unity that is usually based on (but not limited to) ethnic... ...attributes"

hmm, not me.

The other bit that is also mentioned:

"In contemporary political discourse, the term fascist is often used by adherents of some ideologies as a pejorative description of their opponents."

I'll let you ponder on that one

Anonymous said...

yeah cheers...I'll do that.

drakefell debaser said...

Andy, how does the council know how many times a police siren is used? The amount of money it must raise has to be immense. They love bombing down Drakefell Rd at all hours sirens blazing and i work near M15 where the police use the Albert Embankment as though it were Brands Hatch, the latter are mainly armed or diplomatic police but it is still sirens all the way

Anonymous said...

Listen to three radio stations at once- yeah Heart, Magic and XFM.

The Cat Man said...

Drake, i'm not exactly sure. But it gets recorded by the in-car computer. If the police officer is of a low rank they have to radio in to get it authorised before it can be turned on.

btw, what you call MI5 is actually MI6. MI5 is in a different building.

Monkeyboy said...

Nothing to do with this particularly to do with this thread but I like this quote from "Politics and The English Language" (George Orwell, 1946)

"Political language — and with variations this is true of all political parties, from Conservatives to Anarchists — is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind."

drakefell debaser said...

True i always get them them mixed. I don't think fining them is sensible - the money the police spend on fines could increase salaries and recruitment. I do wish the police and emergency services used the sirens that they use in Europe, they are so much easier on the ear

Monkeyboy said...

...who said 'spin' was new

drakefell debaser said...

Monkeyboy - or in lay mans terms, talk out your arse eloquently and with conviction maybe

Anonymous said...

Is it just me or does Andy have a not so subtle, some would say fetishistic, love of authority?

Did you ask to be locked up and to try the handcuffs....just for research you understand.

Monkeyboy said...

I prefer Orwell's version but same thing.

Danja said...

It's bullshit as usual - source please, troll.

Anonymous said...

I think someone wants to wear that uniform. Haring around, car paid for by the state, no speed limit, one take away to the next. Sometimes a bit of ruck.

The police driver and the boy racer have a great deal in common.

Both are a danger to the general public due to their aggressive driving and complete disregard for the speed limit.

Anonymous' said...

Anonymous 22.23

Takes one to know one dearie.

Now lets watch you defend your sexuality.

Anonymous said...

During the summer Ladywell has to close it doors as it has too many users. The proposed new pool will be about the same size will serve the same population, plusan additional new 3,000 homes within 5 minutes walking distamce.

The mayor originally said there would be 2 full sized pools, that is no longer the case.

At wavelenghths a new 25m pool was justified in part because there may be 3000 new homes at Convoy's Wharf.

At Loampit Vale immininent increase in the local population of thousands seems to have been ignored.

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