South London Press promotes the Coulgate Street petition


Not that we have given Cllr Walton guest-editorship of Brockley Central today, but here's another bit of news courtesy of his blog.

The Coulgate Street petition features in this week's edition, with Erin from BXAG and Dean presenting the case for pedestrianisation.

We have nicked this scan of the article from Dean's blog.

The number of signatures has now reached 151, only 49 short of the target of 200 which the BXAG are hoping for. Please sign-up now.

57 comments:

yaxu said...

I don't understand this one. Coulgate street is pleasant enough as it is, and I've never known a car to go around coulgate street particularly quickly, and as a non-car owning person it's very handy to have speedicars there, for example when disabled friends visit.

Why not focus on that north end of brockley road itself, turn the pedestrian crossing into a zebra crossing, and add another outside toads mouth too? That'd join up the niceness of coulgate street and the shop on the hill.

Brockley Nick said...

Re: Brockley, it's not an either / or situation. But Brockley Road is a major traffic artery and inevitably will be really difficult to do anything about.

Coulgate Street by contrast is quick and easy to sort and shouldn't inconvenience anyone very much - even residents seem to be fairly supportive.

As has been pointed out in other threads, this shouldn't harm Speedicars at all - their cars can't park there anyway, due to commuters dumping their cars outside the station for a day or more at a time.

Residents, the disabled and Speedicars could all have their needs met through some simple compromises, such as limited drop off points, evening relaxations of the restrictions and short-term parking bays.

Everyone's a winner and Coulgate Street becomes really nice, rather than sort-of nice.

The only losers are the zone-2 tourists who drive in from elsewhere to make use of the fact that Brockley is about the only zone 2 station in the world that you can park outside in the morning.

Cllr Dean Walton said...

@yaxu - on the contrary Coulgate Street at the moment is not pleasant. Its pretty cottages and quite nature away from Brockley Road is spolit as from early in the morning it is wall to wall car park (as evidenced by photographs on my blog) and the day-to-day experience of others.

A local resident commented earlier on this blog that in fact on reflection they would prefer Coulgate St to be pedestrianised.

As regards to the impact on local business - The Broca has come out in favour and I've not heard or discussed with the minicab firm. However I think that with a proper scheme there could be every opportunity to actually improve things for minicabs - a proper rank for them to allow for proper recognition of the company as an important part of the public transport infrastructure.

I would hazard a guess that the solid parking currently in Coulgate Street impinges negatively on their operations, pedestrianisation should not impact further could actually enhance. I don't know if they are experiencing significant problems with the current closure.

At some point no doubt I hope there will be a formal discussion on this issue and the various viewpoints can be brought out into the open.

BrockleyBiker said...

"The only losers are the zone-2 tourists who drive in from elsewhere to make use of the fact that Brockley is about the only zone 2 station in the world that you can park outside in the morning."

This really irritates me. I can see why people do it, as the savings can be huge, but it has a real negetive impact on the area.

Headhunter said...

Although, of course those zone 2 tourists will just park on other streets like Harefield, Cranfield, UBR and Manor Ave however I still agree that it would be nice for Coulgate to be pedestrianised and have seats outside Broca etc

BrockleyBiker said...

They do anyway...

Anonymous said...

I noticed today that the footbridge will be out of action for ten weeks which is a bit of a pain for me as I live on the west side.

Also the large disused building next to the westside entrance has scaffolding up today and a jcb type machine doing something inside. Is it about to be ripped down? Hope so.

yaxu said...

Yes good points, I understand a bit more now. It can be difficult finding a way between the cars to get across the road, I imagine it must be worse for the aforementioned disabled people. It would be really great to be able to sit outside and eat in brockley.

As an interim measure though why not just paint double yellow lines on the road?

I'd still like to see an easier way to cross the brockley road too. The pedestrian crossing is well timed but one isn't enough. Also the zebra crossing further north doesn't feel safe.

Anonymous said...

Ratbag Says

I imagine the Zone 2 tourists will go next year once we get the East London Line. I can't see the Council leaving Brockley a parking permit free zone.

Ed said...

May be CPZ is the only way to rid Brockley of these four-wheeled chumps?

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know if that building is about to be raized to the ground?

Anonymous said...

it should definitely be pedestrianised, no need for the car parking around there at all and then once the brockley common work has been done it will be a nice area to sit in rather than just somewhere you pass through.

agree with anon above that closing the bridge for 10 weeks is a complete nusiance and can't see how it is necessary. no idea about the building - seems unlikely the developers are actually going to start work in the current climate but who knows.

Anonymous said...

Just an extra stress on the surrounding roads for parking.

I'm trying hard to see what kind of "eyesore" the humble motor car makes but I just can't see it I'm afraid.

Green rhetoric over common sense.

Brockley Nick said...

It's nothing to do with "Green" really. I am certainly not advocating it on the grounds of rescource efficiency, simply that it will make the area nicer for all, which seems to be the view of the majority of people who've considered the idea.

It's not that cars themselves are necessarily eyesores (although plenty of them are) but that a nice pedestrianised area is preferable to a car park, which is essentially what Coulgate Street is.

Anonymous said...

It's not a carpark though is it? I get what you're trying to say, but it IS just a road with some cars parked on it. Hardly unusual or offensive, and I hate the implication that a Coulgate without cars would be "nice" therefore a Coulgate with cars "isn't nice" - who commissioned that study?

Tressillian James said...

Ok - how about a Coulgate without cars is nicER. This si not an attack about anyone's right to use their car.

- Avid Car Driver, Brockley

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know why all the nice trees in the newly created 'conservation' area were chopped down at the week.

I'm getting fed up with Network Rail chopping down every tree in sight.

It was quite nice around the station last week with the various cherry and sycamore trees, now it's just a crappy road with an ugly ticket office perched on a concrete hill.

Lovely.

Anonymous said...

They're rebuilding the hill - of course they'd have to come down! You wanted this!

Monkeyboy said...

New trees are going in apparently. Tree neutral. I'm off to the G20 thread - it's gonna kick off there as soon as Fred V gets home from work.

Anonymous said...

As a Brockley resident I get the impression that all these changes will not suit the majority of people who use Coulgate street and those that live in adjoining streets.It will only lead to local people being forced into paying for resident parking which could stretch their finances to breaking point in these difficult times.Furthermore,I think that the article in SLP only represents a few people but is put across as the wishes of many.Has anybody thought about the disadvantages ie: Drunks and Drug Addicts congregating on the open space which can lead to people being afraid to use the area.

Anonymous said...

And the open space will encourage drunks and drug addicts? Why? Are they currently put off by the steep ramp?

Brockley Nick said...

It won't lead to local residents being forced to pay for parking, there's no cpz involved.

It has the support of our elected councillor, the local community group which tries hard to be inclusive and more than 160 people who've signed the petition.

As for drunks etc, you could use the same argument for fencing off blackheath and trafalgar square, but people need high quality public spaces and I don't see why part-pedestrianisation makes their presence any more or less likely.

Anonymous said...

Hopefully it won't lead to CPZ, but where will those commuter parkers leave their cars, when Coulgate St isn't available?

Brockley Nick said...

You're talking about fewer than 20 cars squeezed on to that tiny street so they can either be absorbed by other nearby roads (of which mine is one) or it is possible that it will deter some people from driving in to the area in the first place if they think it won't be so easy to find a space or they will have to walk - extra good.

Anonymous said...

160 people is not a true representation.I am not opposed to schemes to make the place look nicer,far from it.I am just trying to see the bigger picture as an ordinary resident and not, as it would seem, as an opportunity to increase my profit margins as places like The Brocca seem to be doing.

Brockley Nick said...

No one has claimed it is a representative sample, but 160 names is a significant show of support, rather than a few individuals as you said.

What is the bigger picture? We've already cleared up that this is not a cpz issue.

As for the broca, why should we have a problem with local businesses benefitting? It'll only benefit if local people are using it more, in which case, they will have benefitted too!

westsider said...

Heaven forbid a local businesswoman who has helped to rejuvenate both east and west sides of the station should benefit in these days when so many small businesses are struggling eh!

Anonymous said...

Nick,You either miss my point or dont want to see it.I am sure most of the proposals will be a good thing.I just don't think any scheme good or bad should be publicly pushed as it was in the SLP by anybody,not just the owner of the Broca, if they possibly stand to gain financially.

Brockley Nick said...

Actually anon, to be clear, this story came about because the reporter heard about the campaign and contacted Dean Walton to ask if he and a campaigner could take part in a photo shoot. Dean contacted me and one or two others urgently, to see if anyone could take part. I have a jb in town and I'm not the architect of the idea, but erin, who is a member of the bxag (from whence the idea came) and who works on coulgate street was available. Thus the story came about. That's how campaigns work and I see no reason why a local business person should not campaign for something - almost all local campaigns are born from some sort of self-interest. The important question is is the idea a good one - does it serve the public interest. In my view absolutely. I have seen no objection that withstood the slightest bit of scrutiny. The benefits on the other hand are compelling.

Tamsin said...

There's no inevitability about a CPZ - the council would have to consult and if people are clued up enough about the downside issues and can see through the loaded questions in the consultation the proposal can be defeated.
We did it in Telegraph Hill when the congestion charge came in.

Anonymous said...

I hope that if it ever went to a vote Brockley residents would stand up and say NO to any kind of CPZ. There's something horribly anti-social about them.

The Cat Man said...

True, but at least residents maybe able to park their cars....

patrick1971 said...

"It will only lead to local people being forced into paying for resident parking which could stretch their finances to breaking point in these difficult times."

If you can afford the luxury of a car, you can afford to pay for a parking permit, the cost of which is minuscule as a percentage of the costs of running a car.

I'm intrigued to know how people think that they could stop cars parking around the station and in residential streets without instituting a CPZ. Maybe I'm missing something?

The Cat Man said...

Theres nothing stopping the residents of a street creating and enforcing their own CPZ, it doesnt have to be run by the council. That way, the costs can be managed directly by the street residents.

What has happened in the past is that the council introduces a CPZ for a small charge say, £40, but each year increasing it way above inflation, £60, £80 etc... so much that it becomes too expensive.

If the residents created their own scheme this would avoid the neo-lefty money grabbing councillors. There's only so much welfare benefits that constituents should have to subsidise! :o)

Tamsin said...

A CPZ doesn't guarantee residents a car parking space. Other Councils, so I have heard, issue mroe permits than there are spaces. So it is still a battle with your neighbours - but much more bitter because once you pay for something you feel entitled to it.
Also, unless one is extremely vigilent people will convert front gardens to hard-standing and the scheme anyway entitles a lot of "clutter" by way of signage on the pavements and painting on the street.

Headhunter said...

Yes that is a concern. I wouold hate to see the front gardens of the large conservation area houses tarmacked to provide parking.

In theory you now have to have planning permission across Lewisham (in or out of the conservation area) to pave a front garden as there is increasing concern at the amount of water run off into drains when it rains heavily. If front gardens are paved, rain cannot be absorbed by gardens and it puts pressure on the drainage and sewage systems.

Having said that, as we can see by the UPVC windows episode on Tyrrwhitt Rd, most people ignore planning permission anyway and the council can't be arsed to enforce anything so I'm sure that as soon as a CPZ came in, Brockley would be paved over to provide parking.

Anonymous said...

Or maybe the council, and almost everybody else, doesn't care about UPVC windows and sky dishes. Maybe, just maybe, you're wrong.

Headhunter said...

I'm never wrong and people who don't care, don't count.

Westsider said...

You know, just sometimes, it would be nice if one of these anonymous types who comes on, grasps the wrong end of the stick and has a pop at people without knowing the full facts would come back when they are put right and say "oh OK then, I was wrong and I am sorry."

Anonymous said...

A great idea!!!! And I would just like to say that we just hit the magic 200 signatures.

A number of friends who have visited Brockley in the past and who have commented on whether this very proposal was viable have kindly pledged their allegiance to the cause.

Lets get it going!!! Very willing to get involved if the instigators of the idea need any hands??

James UBR

Anonymous said...

westsider's comments about who's right and who's wrong prompt me to ask, "Who decides?". I thought this site was for people to air their views.I didn't realise there was a judge and jury in residence. Also, what do they mean by the term 'anonymous types'?

Westsider said...

Anon, I'm talking about people who come on and say things like:

"I just don't think any scheme good or bad should be publicly pushed as it was in the SLP by anybody,not just the owner of the Broca, if they possibly stand to gain financially."

or

"It will only lead to local people being forced into paying for resident parking which could stretch their finances to breaking point in these difficult times."

Then when it is explained to them that in the first case it wasn't the Broca's idea and in tbe second case it won't lead to anyone being forced in to paying for resident parking, they never say, "oh right, sorry, I was wrong, I take it back."

All you get is silence.

And when I say "Anonymous types" I mean people who are so lazy / paranoid / rude that they can't even be bothered to fill out the Name / URL box for other people's benefit. It takes two seconds - have some respect for other people.

Anonymous said...

Firstly,airing one's views anonymously does not equal paranoia,rudeness,laziness nor does it show lack of respect.
Secondly,it was never claimed that it was The Brocas idea.The point was about financial gain.
Thirdly,I dont see how u can make the claim that it won't lead to CPZ unless you have had it rubber stamped by the local authority.If that is the case then yes, you will be right.
Finally, I came onto this site to get involved in what is happening in Brockley as an ordinary resident.If that is not what this site is about and it is only for "like-minded types" perhaps someone could tell me.I will then apologise for upsetting people and wasting their time because my opinions dont match theirs.

A said...

Troll alert...

Comment said...

I don't think anon's comments are trolling. People must express what they genuinely feel about issues. And it never wrong to ask questions, to probe about what is happening and to challenge assumptions. If a campaign is incapable of dealing with that then they need to examine what they are doing.

fabhat said...

It is very easy to remain anon, and yet give yourself a name. It's just so much easier to tell if only one, three or ten people are having a discussion... Also - when the anon comments on this site were turned off for a while it was clear that the vituperative comments were greatly reduced...perhaps people say things under the cover on anon'ness that they wouldn't with a name.

Arthur Enormous-Mouse said...

"Firstly,airing one's views anonymously does not equal paranoia,rudeness,laziness nor does it show lack of respect."

Perhaps not but three out of four ain't bad.

That's not my real name by the way.......

Grow up said...

People being rude on the internet? Well I never. What is the world coming to.

orion said...

Thanks fabhat for your comments on why people use names and I take your point.As you can see I have heeded your comments although it appears somebody has already given me a label of 'Troll'.I must confess I had to look that one up, being new to this.

Brockley Nick said...

Thanks Orion, that's an exemplary attitude.

orion said...

Can anyone tell me if there is any provision in the plans for improved street lighting or cctv.The bridge is a bit of a no mans land in its current state and a little daunting when you need to cross outside of busy periods.

Brockley Nick said...

Orion, see the article about bridge house re: the bridge

orion said...

thanks nick- just looked at the plan.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Brockley Nick. Make the compromises for disabled and speedicars. Expand the pavements to create a calmer and more people friendly area. Currently the pavements are much too narrow for the volume of people coming for the station.

Weststrife said...

Halt the traffic it and allow the Broca to have some tables outside. Would be lovely in the summer and be a really nice centre piece to Brockley. At the same time cut into large flower bed in front of the Broca Supermarket and do the same.

uhfdf said...
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Anonymous said...
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