Boris unveils new ELL trains

Transport for London today unveiled the first of the 20 new trains that will serve the East London Line when it opens next year.

The trains will be similar in design to the majority of the tube trains serving London, but will be completely walk-through and air-conditioned.

The Mayor said:

“For far too long passengers on our Overground lines have suffered from crumbling unreliable trains that were just not up to muster. Every element on these brand spanking new trains has been crafted to meet the capital’s needs and the standard of design will surprise even the most hardened traveller. Air conditioning, walk through carriages and CCTV, combined with the completion of all the East London Line work by 2012, will revolutionise the London Overground network.”

The new trains will join 34 more, which wlll serve the rest of the London Overground network, that will form an orbital service by 2012, with the further extension of the ELL to Clapham Junction.
London’s Transport Commissioner, Peter Hendy, said:

“By 2011 we will be able to add a fourth carriage, increasing capacity by 50 per cent. As we roll out this new fleet, we will continue our expansion of the line and our station improvements programme, which will make the former service unrecognisable.”

The new trains, which will be three-carriages long, will be able to carry almost 500 people. When Overground platforms are extended in 2011 to cater for trains four-carriages long, the trains will be able to carry almost 700 people each.


The Cat Man said...

The white will become grey, and the grey will become black.

I'm going to have to watch my pockets going through places like Dalston Junction on my way to islington....

Anonymous said...

New trains, hooray. Not many seats though.

Anonymous said...

That looks like the new seatless trains that roll through Ladywell - I hate getting on those, and hate them even more when coming back from work. Fail :(

Danja said...

Well done Boris, I mean Ken.

I'll miss being the end of the line and always having a seat though. But, given the line's going to be much busier it looks like a practical layout to me.

maxormark said...

Crush bars, standing room only; all they need to do is eliminate the windows and they can start using REAL cattle trucks!

Anonymous said...

It's a tough, 'we mean business' design. I hope this will be a positive thing for life in Brockley.

Headhunter said...

Good news, but isn't this BoZo taking credit for something Ken initiated and pushed through, yet again?

Anonymous said...

How does adding a fourth carriage increase capacity by 50 per cent?

Brockley Nick said...

@HH - to be fair, it's just the Mayor doing his usual ribbon-cutting duties. Any mayor would be expected to do the same.

@Anon - the 50% increase is in comparison to the existing capacity on the existing overground trains, already running on other parts of the network.

Headhunter said...

Yes true Nick, must be a bit exasperating for Ken and his clan to see people's comments on things like the Evening Standard website saying well done to Bozo for "delivering again" etc, I think some people out their truly believe that all these projects that are coming to fruition are Bozo's

Anonymous said...

Isn't that the case for any large scale implementation of plans, whereby the works usually outlive political terms? Just doing the job of mayor really as Nick has said, don't take it personally just because you voted Mung Green.

Anonymous said...

These look quite impressive. I'm looking forward very much to the new line/link up. We will finally be "on the map", literally.

Tressillian James said...

Cattle trucks yes; but AIRCONDITIONED cattle trucks.

Who thinks (in typical Brit pessimistic fashion, like me)that the airconditioning won't work?

Monkeyboy said...

I suspect that air-conned rolling stock was specified in the PPP contract even before Ken got involved, not that it really matters. Both of them have 'unveiled' these trains at various points during their administration It's like the Ministry of Truth revealing another increase in the chocolate ration to deflect attention from the ongoing war with Oceania.

The Cat Man said...

eh? Is it?

Headhunter said...

BoZo certainly "unveiled" air conned rolling stock quite a few months ago and it was certainly on order during Ken's reign, if not before as you say.

Anon - Yes I voted "mung" green, how did you vote? "Fried chicken" BNP?

fintan said...

. . . are we at war with Oceania - I thought it was with the Taleban??

(Good news about the chocolate ration going up though ;-)

Anonymous said...

Its an overland train which is not a tube train which goes to West Croydon one end and places you could have gone to on the overland then underground from NCG - where's the bonus in this, nothing! Downside the Southern service from Brockley will probably be cut back and you'll all end up standing -what progress!

The Cat Man said...

There is no reduction in trains going to London Bridge, actually, the ones serving Brockley will increase from something like an average of 4 to 6 an hour. It is the 'faster' trains from norwood junction (that by pass brockley anyway) which is being axed.

Anyone want to place any bets whether or not the bakerloo line will be coming to brockley?

Brockley Nick said...

Anon - read the previous discussions about ELL please.

It's obvious what the benefits are:

1. Hugely increased frequency
2. Alternative capacity at times when the overland train service is malfunctioning
3. Big increase in peak-time capacity will reduce overcrowding on trains
4. New direct route options - direct route to Islington, the City, etc - little more than 10-15 minutes away.
5. New interchanges with tube lines and eventually crossrail

And capacity is not being reduced on the London Bridge service, nor is there any suggestion that it should be.

Brockley Nick said...

PS - it's a tube train in all but name: frequency, interchanges, train-design, passenger information systems all basically tube-line spec. On the tube map.

PPS - part of the London orbital line

PPPS - stations along the route being upgraded as a result

eric blair said...

no, we're at war with australasia. We've always been at war with australasia.

Lou Baker said...

@Nick: you're a fan. I'm not.

Frankenstein's Line will prove a significant disappointment because it does everything a decent metro style train line shouldn't.

The most reliable lines:
1. Have their own dedicated track with spare capacity.
2. Go only from A to B.
3. Have frequent recovery points for failed trains.
4. Other than first and last trains, don't have a specific timetable.

The ELL will:
1. Share crowded track with Southern, freight service and, when phase 2 opens, with South Eastern too.
2. Go from A to B, (and also to C, D, E, F, G and H).
3. Have virtually nowhere for failed trains.
4. Will be dependent on the timetables of other operators.

Not only that:
- Other than Brick Lane doesn't go to any useful destinations (Shoreditch isn't and never has been the City)
- Other than Highbury & Islington provides NO new interchanges beyond those that were there on the old ELL.
- Stations in south London are not being significantly upgraded beyond a lick of paint.
- The trains are short and will get crowded. It's anyone's guess where everyone will get off to change on to the much more useful London Bridge service instead.

Indeed there are just three benefits to the ELL.
1. Brockley will finally be on the tube map. This will help thick people find us.
2. The last train home will be at a later time.
3. We'll be able to used Oyster prepay.

The second two of these will happen anyway under the Southern re-franchise agreement. So we're left with the map as the only real benefit we're getting from this beastly line.

That's got to be worth a billion when a much more useful DLR link could have been put in for a tenth of the price.

Brockley Nick said...

lou baker - some of what you say is true - I never claimed it was perfect, I just say that it will bring huge benefits.

Some of what you say is just your opinion. For example, it doesn't go anywhere useful unless you need to go to any of those stations. There are no doubt people north of the river awaiting the line and asking why anyone would want to go to Brockley. A stupid question, as we know.

Some of it is odd - yes, it doesn't have many new interchanges that weren't there before but the ELL never used to go to Brockley. A DLR line would have been the better / simpler option?! Which DLR line? Why?

Some of what you say is simply untrue:

You say there are only three benefits - I have listed many more. You may not think, for example, the frequency will be good enough, but it cannot be argued that it isn't a big increase.

The rest of it is determinedly negative - yes, lines without branches are a little more reliable, but the Northern, District, Central and Metropolitan all manage well enough. And of course, the benefit of branches is that they serve more areas...

I don't really understand the point of your posts, other than to spread a bit of pointless and misleading gloom.

patrick1971 said...

And as for the "Shoreditch is not the City" comment, the Shoreditch station is going to be just north of Liverpool Street, so much more convenient (i.e. a shorter walk) for much of the city than London Bridge.

patrick1971 said...

And as for the "Shoreditch is not the City" comment, the Shoreditch station is going to be just north of Liverpool Street, so much more convenient (i.e. a shorter walk) for much of the city than London Bridge.

Monkeyboy said...

"That's got to be worth a billion when a much more useful DLR link could have been put in for a tenth of the price." erm... no it couldn't.

Lou Baker said...


Well the DLR Woolwich Arsenal Extension (which included a costly tunnel under the river) was built for £140m.

The Stratford International extension is costing £240m - which includes a section of new track, new stations and converting the old North London Line.

We're getting a new bridge at New Cross Gate and some new traffic lights for trains. £1bn for that clearly seems like a bargain in comparison.

PS: if you really do build railways are you working on this ghastly project? Or are you on the better but still flawed Thameslink or Crossrail schemes?

Brockley Nick said...

@Lou Baker - the DLR is indeed a wonderfully economical bit of public transport infrastructure.

But how many miles did both those extensions you mention add to the line and how many miles will the ELL extension add to the East London Line?

What is the capacity of the DLR compared with the ELL?

On a cost per passenger mile basis, how do the projects compare?

Danja said...

We're getting a new bridge at New Cross Gate and some new traffic lights for trains. £1bn for that clearly seems like a bargain in comparison.

That's so far departed from the facts, especially at the northern end of the line.

Lou Baker said...

@ Danja:

I've said all along the ELL is wonderful if you live in Hackney. And it's wonderful because it's a new railway.

Here it's not. It is exactly the same railway and the same stations we've always had. The main differences here are a few extra trains (going to questionable destinations), a bridge at New Cross Gate and signals.

Oh, and if phase 2 happens, there'll be a few hundred yards of track around Surrey Canal Road. But that's all we're getting.

@ Brockley Nick

The Woolwich DLR extension is 2.5km of new railway. The Stratford International extension is about 1km of new railway and 5km of converted railway.

Here in SE London with the ELL we get no new railway, aside from a bridge, and no converted railway.

Honestly, when I tell you it's a bad project for SE London I'm not kidding. Despite the fact that there will be more trains.

It's like upgrading a ZX Spectrum to a Windows 3.0 machine. Certainly an improvement but still about 15 years behind what we really need.

How about we start an online campaign for Crossrail 3. A SE London to NW London link - via the City and West End. What d'ya think? In the long run it's the only solution to the railway capacity issues we have here. And, of course, it'd take 30 years for the powers that be to plan and build it anyway so lets start talking about it now.

Anonymous said...

With the reported state of the public finances, I think we're lucky that the ELL is even being seen through.

Monkeyboy said...

I wonder where the new extended 700 person capacity DLR trains to Croydon will stop? They can't share the track with the main line, can't use the existing platforms, do not share the signalling (a bit like traffic lights but MUCH more complex...actually not much like traffic lights) or power system. Perhaps they're these new 'magic' trains I've heard about. Lou, your grasp of railway engineering is second only to Boris J's.

The DLR is a light transit system, the ELL will be a full size system that is based on rail engineering standards. You're not comparing like with like, let it go...

Lou Baker said...

Hold the front page! Monkeyboy in DLR isn't a mainline railway revelation shocker. Seriously.

I am indeed not comparing like with like. I am comparing a completely brand spanking new not existed before DLR link with a bastardisation of crumbling Victorian infrastructure.

The first would have been better and cheaper than the latter. But sadly that's not what we're getting.

And what's with the obsession with things going to Croydon?

Is there something there I'm missing?

Monkeyboy said...

Lou, the wheels are falling off your argument. Are you saying that your grand vision is a DLR extension to Brockley only? The ELL does a little more than that.

aunty kate said...

I used the DLR from Deptford Bge to Stratford while doing a temp job recently and I fell seriously out of love with it. Talk about the slow train! I'd have been much quicker taking the train to London Bridge and then squeezing into the Jubilee with the Canary Wharf bankers.

M said...

I caught one of these new trains on the western part of the Overground network yesterday.
It was bright, very spacious (even at rush hour) and the air con was working perfectly.
A definite improvement.

Latest Tweets

Brockley Central Label Cloud

Click one of the labels below to see all posts on that subject. The bigger the label, the more posts there are!