The Talbot, Tyrwhitt Road

Finally, we can bring you official confirmation that The Talbot pub on Tyrwhitt Road is to be redeveloped by the people who brought us the excellent Prince Regent in Herne Hill.

A magnificent but badly neglected pub, its fate is something we have agonised over, ever since Brockley Central began. Its potential, in an area starved of high-quality pubs, has always been clear. Many great pub managers have tried to raise the funds to redevelop it, but have fallen just short. Now, we are delighted to bring you this letter from Felix Pearce, new owner of The Talbot:

We have just completed on the purchase of the freehold of the Talbot today at 10am. As you can imagine, these things take time to sort out, but we can now confirm that we are the very proud new owners of the Talbot SE4.

We will be starting a complete refurb of the pub next Monday 3rd. There will be a team of builders beginning a 3 month schedule of work that will include a new layout in the bar downstairs, a new trade kitchen, new loos and opening up the upstairs room. We are planning to have the pub up and running at the beginning of November 2009.

The Talbot will be keeping its name and will remain a local pub. We aim to turn the Talbot into a pub of exceptional quality for everyone. For anyone wishing to get a feel of what the new Talbot might be like, please pop down to the Prince Regent in Herne Hill where you will be most welcome. Come in for a bite to eat, try one of our real ales, try your luck at the weekly pub quiz, bring the whole family (and the dog!) for a Sunday lunch or come and check out the rooms upstairs. Alternatively you can have a look at our website –
theprinceregent.co.uk.

It is our intention to create a pub that everyone in Brockley will be proud of and use regularly. I know that it has been a long time coming for all of you and that the three months extra wait will be like an eternity, but we hope that the wait will be worthwhile. I will update you as we go along.

Thanks for your patience.


We wish him the best of luck.

247 comments:

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Brockley Kate said...

Top news! Good luck to him.

fabhat said...

Hurrah!

Headhunter said...

Excellent news! Now I can drag all our friends from Herne Hill and other parts of London over to Brockley.

Anonymous said...

great time to buy. maybe the guy knows what he's doing! if so, he should take over aquarium while he's at it....

veggiegirl said...

Sounds brilliant! Looking forward to seeing it flourish.

Ross said...

best news is that i can take my dog, great stuff.

Anonymous said...

his website for the HH [place is really good.

foie gras - my mouth is watering!

Anonymous said...

I used to live opposite the Prince Regent before it was tarted up - good place for a drink then...

Tintin said...

This news has just restored my faith in the area!

Transition Fran said...

Great news. Look forward to eating there and as a venue for showing our Transition Brockley films.

Anonymous said...

Hurrah! At last, somewhere good to go out that's not Meze Mangal (which is great).

Anonymous said...

I'll stick to Fishy Business

Brockley Kate said...

Anyone fancy meeting up for celebratory raspberry bellinis when it opens?

Tressillian James said...

Great idea Kate

This is excellent news - we are going to have a very very decent place to have a meal or a drink with friends locally. Brockley needed this, especially over here on the Lewisham Way side.

James said...

Livign oposite. I'm both chuffed to bits. Hopefully, the new owners will have due regard for its neighbours and keep it the noise down as much as possible.

Tressillian James said...

I hope they go with the ' talbot' dog for their pub sign...

Rosie H said...

Best news in a long, long time.

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

Sounds promising after nearly a year shut. Let hope the can is NOT too full of worms.

The selection of real ales and cask marque accreditation do it for me. I hope this will be the same in Tyrwhitt Road as in Herne Hill.

Not sure veggie girl will like the idea of fois gras and bugs bunny in a terrine though.

Brockley Nick said...

I can feel another BC drinks in the making.

Anonymous said...

Nick, excellent idea. they deserve support. maybe they'll have a grand opening.

Kate, rasp bellinis - oh god, what a horrendously brilliant idea.

all, imagine - really nice dinner on way back from work.

Tyrwhitt michael said...

I assume when the Talbot re-opens, the first round (of Raspberry Bellinis @£5 a shot)will be on........... Hugh.

What were ther terms of your bet Nick?

Brockley Nick said...

Those sound like good terms to me! Where is Hugh anyway?

Brockley Jon said...

Brilliant news indeed. Count me in for Bellinis (and a few pints) - sounds like you'll need to keep the Cocktails sign, Felix!

tyrwhitt ali said...

Woo hoo! That's very exciting.

Opening night BC drinks sounds like a great idea!

Anonymous said...

Great news Felix is one of the best around, understand one of his partners is interviewing the barmaids and he's a good judge

Hugh said...

This is great news. I'm delighted to have been proved wrong (assuming I have been).

Drinks on Nick, I think we said.

Brockley Nick said...

Drink on, Nick!

That is what you will be saying as you fork out for another rasberry bellini.

Headhunter said...

I'm up for a raspberry bellini if Hugh's paying! Roll on November...

....God it's a slow day at work today, can you all tell?

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

Back in December 2008

Hugh said...
Anyone else reckon the Talbot is a pipe dream? Ten quid says it doesn't re-open in 2009. Five quid says it doesn't re-open before 2011.

That's only two bellinis at Prince Regent prices I'm afraid.

First come?

Hugh said...

So I may limit my losses to a blue note.

If they do interesting German lagers I will be a fan.

sonofagun said...

I will be a pub Jim,but not as we know It.

Brockley Nick said...

"I will be a pub Jim,but not as we know It."

If you're going to be a pub, that will certainly be novel.

Anonymous said...

Re Hugh's bet:

"Ten quid says it doesn't re-open in 2009. Five quid says it doesn't re-open before 2011."

Surely that means he owes £15 - assuming, of course, that it does indeed open in November, which is in 2009 and also before 2011.

Maradoll said...

Yay! I'm so excited about this. Thank you new Talbot owners for making a nice pub for us!

Anonymous said...

So far we are promised at least seven more women than used to frequent the former Talbot so that's a result.

Old Talbot Regular

Anonymous said...

You forgot HH is a 14 year old schoolgirl......

Headhunter said...

16 actually. Just finished my GCSEs.

Graeme said...

Seeing as they have a picture of The Prince Regent in their pub of that name, I'll be interested in seeing which sepia-tinted version of a Talbot will be chosen to adorn this (hopefully) fine establishment's walls.

My vote goes for the moon crater.

Graeme said...

Oh FFS.

http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Atalbot&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B2DVFD_enGB213GB213&aq=t

Back to html school for me.

Cyril, the welsh collie said...

I want the hunting dog - the owners may have given us a clue, as they said dogs will be welcome.

Monkeyboy said...

Will there be a visa system for non-conservation area residents? If so will someone sponsor me?

Beerhunter said...

Apols for my dimness, but as they've bought the f/hold, then it's a freehouse, right? Which means they're not tied in any way to those nasty pubCo's? So all the profit goes rightfully to the owners (for taking the risk), and the brewers (for making the lovely falling-down water). Or am I wrong?

Which beers are they serving in SE24?

justmyopinion said...

Can anyone vouch for the prince regent? food any good? If so, then roll on the talbot. I need a decent local I can take friends who are staying over the weekend somewhere nice for Sunday lunch before packing them off.

Even better while taking the dog for a wailk I can stop off and have a sneaky afternoon pint and the better half will be none the wiser.

Just a shame it hasn't opened sooner to capitlise on this glorios weather we're having.

ladywell bodybuilder said...

Monkeyboy, I would be the last person to lead someone into a shady world of strong alcohol and loose women - stick to the dogging and continental lagers by the gentlemans toilet on Hilly Fields, we're here for you.

Anonymous said...

Yep Beerhunter, no more buying from Punch Taverns

4x4 said...

Will they be showing the Rugby?
Real Ale, good food, decent selection of newspapers and Rugby-perfect.
The Six Nations usually has the added benefit of attracting decent totty into the pub which would save me having to go up to Jam Circus.

tyrwhitt ali said...

I'm sure we'll find someone to sponsor you Monkeyboy. Am starting to think I might have to wander over to Herne Hill and try out the Prince Regent.

Anonymous said...

Id be very surprised If there's a TV there,Or jukebox, just background Muzak.

Brockley Nick said...

The Prince Regent has a big screen on "big match" days.

4x4 said...

Don't want big screen TV on all the time-just big games. Music is okay if its not intrusive, I like to be able to have a chat.
Pool table-hope not, there's plenty of other places where pubs where you can play pool.

fred vest said...

"Id be very surprised If there's a TV there,Or jukebox, just background Muzak"

or pool table - just accessible pints of hoegarden for £4.50 and a mix of obnoxious tory twats and bleeding heart liberals, lounging around on sofas reading the 'sundays' and twittering, congratulating themselves on how dam fine they all are and what a marvelously inclusive (in terms of the white, middle class, 30 something community) place it is

Hugh said...

I cycle past the Prince Regent every day during the week and have noticed how classy it looks. If the Talbot is done up similarly I then we're all in for a treat.

Hey, it might even help house prices...

Brockley Nick said...

Deary me, Fred. You've been away a while, but come back all guns blazing.

From what I gather from people I know who go there often, the regent's clientele is fairly diverse - certainly more diverse than the three middle aged white blokes who used to drink at The Talbot (no offence, TM).

chipper said...

Well, the chip on the shoulder of fred vest is clearly visible today.

Hugh said...

Louche Tory twats are ace, Fred. Join us.

Brockley Kate said...

So you'll be joining us for raspberry bellinis, then, Fred?

fred vest said...

absolutely kate

Headhunter said...

Beerhunter - the Prince Regent in HH brews it's own ale and has a good selection of bought in ones too. Food is also excellent.

I'll be happy to make up the serried ranks of middle class 30 somethings congratulating myself on how damn fine I am. Bring it on. Stay away Fred, you may have a coronary. Stick to the Wetherspoons in Catford.

Anonymous said...

Is that Big Match Football,Or just the Ruggers faw faw

Brockley Kate said...

Oh good, I'm sure we'll all look forward to it!

Tressillian James said...

HH i just turned 40 - can I still come by, lounge and congratulate myself on how damn fine I am? Cause I am damn fine. And now there will be a great place for me to celebrate that fineness.

Anonymous said...

@Fred-I am a 40 year old BNP voting black guy for your information-how inclusive is that?
Big Football or Rugger I don't care although I don't want to watch Hull City v Stoke City on a Wedneaday night-not my idea of a big match faw faw!

Headhunter said...

Yes TJ, do come along. Anyone who is damn fine is welcome in the conservation area.

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

There were more than three middle aged white blokes who drank in the old Talbot.

Sometimes there were as many as seven with an odd token female at times.

By the way I've just turned 50 - does that make me the oldest blogger in town?

M said...

This is fantastic news! Sounds like it's going to be a great pub and I hope it does well.
I'll certainly be going regularly!

Anonymous said...

So whats the price of drinks at The Prince Regent.Beers etc anyone know.

Graeme said...

I too am over 40 (and junked up to the eyeballs on pseudoephedrine which explains my uncharacteristically large number of posts in the last day)

fred vest said...

"So whats the price of drinks at The Prince Regent.Beers etc anyone know."

quite a few comments on its prices (and other things) here

obviously the ones i've selected for presentation here to the collective fineness of brockley central could be seen to be biased, however they are all comments about price (and by extension the level of in/exclusiveness) :-

Quiz night on tue is a real treat... owner definatly trying to get the guardian crowd in, v pricy for drinks, nice food...

On saturday afternoon there were about 400 small children running around in here, high on organic lentils.

If you want to pay way over the top prices and have it served by people who appear to have no souls then this is the place for you.

The service is just so slow and it's so over priced

They offer a good selection of drinks however I would agree that the prices are quite high, compared to other pubs in the vicinity.

Beer prices are definitely way over the top for the area

In its favour, although the beer is eye-wateringly expensive, as others have commented, it is kept very well and they are not making a policy of serving short measure, unlike their nearest rivals. And the food is good

The food was decent enough and service was pleasant but lunch for three (only 2 of us having 2 courses) at £75 is well over-priced, 2 of us having burgers

Don't hand over your hard-earned money for this rubbish

This Sun 4 drinks cost £17.25. No wonder it was half empty

the food in this pub is good, but hugely expensive and not worth the money they charge

the most expensive Guinness in Herne Hill

have just been for sunday lunch and although it was adequate it was overpriced

It's not a pub on a saturday. It's a place for the local bourgeoisie to take their kids to on a saturday if the au-pair has a day off to visit the Latvian embassy for paperwork purposes.

obviously that last commenter not that up to speed on visa requirements for EU nationals

Bob said...

Blah blah blah.
Fred, it hasn't even opened yet - get off your high horse you repetitive dullard.
If you want cheap drinks and average food the Brockley Barge is just by the station.
I believe curry club is on a Thursday.

Anonymous said...

And this was also typical:

"There was a wide range of lagers on, including all the usual suspects, but also Leffe Blonde and Staropramen. They have Cask Marque accreditation, and I have to say the Black Sheep Bitter was well kept and at £3.05 a pint much the going rate in London these days."

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

It's no suprise the prices are Antic not Weatherspoon levels.

I shall make my own judgement when it opens thanks.

In the meantime I might take a detour via Herne Hill tomorrow night on my way home from work to get a first impression.

fabhat said...

Interesting Fred that you felt the need to turn one comment from Beer in the Evening into two, to give more back up your overpriced/small children/organic theories...

Why not wait for the refurbed Talbot to be finished and then you can moan all you like about it.

I'm looking forward to another local place to go for drinks and food.

drakefell debaser said...

Great news about the pub; I will get behind Monkeyboy in the queue for a visa.

On saturday afternoon there were about 400 small children running around in here, high on organic lentils.

I love the dryness of this remark.

That said though, I agree with Bob. Save the negativity for after you have tried it.

The Cat Man said...

Mung Ale

fred vest said...

"Fred, it hasn't even opened yet - get off your high horse you repetitive dullard."

apologies if you have some sort of cognitive disorder, but my post was a reply to a direct question about what the prices were like in the prince regent - why a response to that should wait until a pub in brockley has opened i suppose only you can rationalise

fred vest said...

"And this was also typical"

sorry but it was not - are you able to post up more comments left saying how reasonable their prices are?

Brockley Kate said...

Thing is, Fred isn't even Brockley, he's the top cheerleader for the Catford Haters squad, he's contractually obliged to slag off positive stories about Brockley ...

Not that we don't enjoy having a nay-sayer on BC, of course. It'd just be nice to have a more local one.

Anonymous said...

I for one am glad the prices may be a little higher if it keeps the MANY nutters and knackers living around SE4 out. I was at that Tesco on Lewisham Way yesterday, there was hardly a normal person around! When the Talbot reopens its daytime clientele could easily be like the Barges (rank) if the prices dont scare them away...

Bob said...

Fred, as you well know, it was actually a highly selective collection of quotes designed to illustrate your contempt for what you see as an overpriced and exclusive venue and it's relevance to the same company opening a pub in Brockley.

fred vest said...

"Interesting Fred that you felt the need to turn one comment from Beer in the Evening into two, to give more back up your overpriced/small children/organic theories... "

not sure what you mean about turning one quote into two, but if you read the comments on that site you will see there was loads of comments moaning about children running amok in the pub, I never quoted all of them because personally i've nothing against children in pubs (or organic food for that matter), but it's fair to say that the majority of people commenting on it on that site seem to dislike it - anyroads as I said above the post was in response to a question about what the prices were like - so your point about 'my' small children/organic theory is misguided, as to the 'overpriced theory' - it's not a theory, it's just a selection of empirical observations from an albeit unrepresentative sample of people who have been in the place and chosen to comment about it's prices - as I said above, if there are loads of other comments elsewher about how reasonably priced/cheap the place is then post them up to balance up the evidence

the whining that followed the presentation of said quotes speaks volumes, as it's far harder to square the circle about it being inclusive (even though deep down most of you don't really want it to be inclusive anyway)

fred vest said...

"Fred, as you well know, it was actually a highly selective collection of quotes "

as i said previously, if you think it was selective why don't you post up all the comments on that site that say it's reasonably priced/cheap?

the only selectiveness was that they were all mainly on the topic of price (plus a couple of other thrown in as i couldn't resist them) - but as i said the quotes were in relation to the question about the prices in said place - you know the type of thing, someone asks you a question about a topic and you respond about that topic, simples

fred vest said...

"I for one am glad the prices may be a little higher if it keeps the MANY nutters and knackers living around SE4 out"

at least you are honest about it

sonofagun said...

I doubt whether many people on here will drink there regularly anyway,Like to talk about It though,You not Included TM

M said...

As long as it keeps you out Fred, it seems we'll all be happy!

ladywell bodybuilder said...

I live within the Brockley conservation area, yet in ladywell

Is that local enough for me to vent my spleen or are there more demanding rules and small print that I have to adhere to?

Anonymous said...

Well we may as well be honest about it Fred. The "the MANY nutters and knackers" drive the average Joe-Soap-drinker away, and what we need is a pub for them (me) in this area. Now i know that opinion doesnt reek of political-correctness rubbish but I for one am aspiring to something better than the Curry Club brigade.

Bob said...

Fred, people rarely go on review sites to say how reasonably priced a pub is - people love to moan as you clearly know better than most.

By the way, I've actually been to the Prince Regent and I found it's prices were fine - roughly the same as any other pub in London. There's a quote for you!

Headhunter said...

Exactly Bob and others, those review sites like Beer In The Evening and Fancy a Pint are always negative. All I ever see on those sites is people slagging places off. I only ever go on them to get addresses and directions etc, the reviews are a waste of time.

I also agree that it's about time Brockley had something a little more "up market". If you want a pint for £2 then head for the Barge, or something more middling? Head for the Wickham Arms. I welcome this development with open arms, better a gastro pub than yet another block of flats...

Anonymous said...

I for one love Wetherspoon's mixed grill, lunchtime baguettes and burgers

Brockley Kate said...

Ladywell bodybuilder - as long as you agree that Ladywell is part of Greater Brockley, then you're very welcome ... ;-)

fred vest said...

"Fred, people rarely go on review sites to say how reasonably priced a pub is - people love to moan as you clearly know better than most."

your point however was that I had selectively quoted from the available comments to make my case, if no other comments other than ones moaning about high prices exist, how can I have selectively quoted the ones that i did?

this is what you said remember:-

it was actually a highly selective collection of quotes designed to illustrate your contempt

fabhat said...

Fred I mean this:

On saturday afternoon there were about 400 small children running around in here, high on organic lentils. It's not a pub on a saturday. It's a place for the local bourgeoisie to take their kids to on a saturday if the au-pair has a day off to visit the Latvian embassy for paperwork purposes.

You turned this into two comments - on the beer in the evening website it was only one comment, by one person. Just pointing this out...

As for waiting until it opens in to complain about pricing - why not wait and see. Prices may be different in Brockley?

Tressillian James said...

Why does the Talbot have to be inclusive? I don't find the Barge particularly inclusive to me. It's a business and as such they are set up to cater for different markets. I'd say, on the strength of the comments here, the Talbot has found itself a market.

What I do find odd is that anyone would bother to moan about it before it has opened. A tired, down at heel building is getting a make over and starting a business that most will think is positive. However, if it's not your sort of pub, well then go to the plenty of other pubs (some near you in catford) that are. You don't have to slag off something that's different Fred. Pricing is subjective - and I think you'll find there are plenty who will pay these prices happliy. Quoting a few odd comments from the Prince Regent is redundant - the Pub is still open and doing a roaring trade - evidence that their pricepoint is working.

Headhunter said...

Fred - Let me ask a direct question. What would YOU like to see at The Talbot? Given that it hasn't survived as an "average" pub, so that's out, what do YOU want to happen?

Headhunter said...

Anon 14.27 - I'll happily go to a Wetherspoons pub now and then but I don't want to be forced to go to them all the time. They have their place and at times I'm looking for something outside the drunken loon, quiz machine, cheap food and beer experience.

fred vest said...

"Fred I mean this:"

yep fair point, I actually moved the quote about the latvian embassy to the bottom to make a comment below it about the fact that latvians don't need visas to be in the UK. not sure it really changes the point being made though

"As for waiting until it opens in to complain about pricing - why not wait and see. Prices may be different in Brockley?"

my post was in response to someone asking about what the prices were like in the prince regent pub in herne hill, they may or may not be similar to the one in brockley but as far as a question about what the prices are like in the prince regent in herne hill, i don't see what brockley has to do with it

ladywell bodybuilder said...

Brockley Kate

Ladywell is an independent state but our guards on our borders (which includes the north and west sides of Hilly Fields) are getting very twitchy.

We have every right to develop and test nuclear weapons.

Tressillian James said...

The complaint about the kids is nothing to do with the pub really - just a classist rant about the clientele it attracts.

fred vest said...

"I don't find the Barge particularly inclusive to me"

I don't think the barge makes any claims to be inclusive, unlike this one:-

pub of exceptional quality for everyone

It is our intention to create a pub that everyone in Brockley will be proud of and use regularly

lets hope their pricing policy allows them to make good on those aims (or at least scrap those aims as dog whistle rhetoric and admit what it really is, that's my only complaint about this)

Anonymous said...

Parts of Ladywell are definitely Greater Brockley - but its furthest reaches are within the Municipality of Catford.

Similarly, areas west of Brockley Station are part of New Cross State.

sonofagun said...

The first 1 or 2 weeks will be the worst time to go In there,You will have all the people who have been barred from other pubs In the area,Hope they nip It in the bud Quickly

fred vest said...

"the Pub is still open and doing a roaring trade - evidence that their pricepoint is working"

that's not in doubt but it's not the point

porsche as a company was very successful for near on a century, that didn't make it an accessible or inclusive product, nor did they claim it was

Anonymous said...

Hell fred - you can be proud of a pub without being able to afford the beer there. I was proud of concorde but couldnt affoard to fly in it.

Moreover it is for everyone - there are no barriers to entry. It also says in that sentence that it will be of exceptional quality. Just cause something is for everyone doesnt mean you have to run it dirt cheap. I think the prices are reasonable.

As HH said - what would you prefer there Fred? The last pub didnt work.

Tressillian James said...

Fred - you're grasping at staws now aren't you mate. Suggesting that the use of 'everyone' in their marketing means they have to come up with a socially equally product at your prefered price point.

Give it up - this is a postive that is roundly supported by those living in the streets next to the pub.

fred vest said...

"Fred - Let me ask a direct question. What would YOU like to see at The Talbot?"

i've answered this already on another post above, my point is that either they adopt a pricing plan that allows them to make good on their intentions of it being a 'pub....for everyone' which 'everyone in Brockley will be proud of and use regularly'

or

they are just more honest and admit it's a gastro pub for a certain type of person

Bob said...

"your point however was that I had selectively quoted from the available comments to make my case"

You did - you ignored this one, as quoted earlier:
"The Black Sheep Bitter was well kept and at £3.05 a pint much the going rate in London these days."
Even though it was at the top of the page. How your heart must have sunk to see that straight off!

Plus there are many other positive reviews of the pub, albeit not specifically mentioning the prices. If the reviewers liked it there then I'd say the prices obviously didn't bother them.

fred vest said...

"Hell fred - you can be proud of a pub without being able to afford the beer there. I was proud of concorde but couldnt affoard to fly in it."

nice selective quoting there - I see you changed their comment about it being a pub that they hoped everyone in brockley will be proud of and use regularly, into one about just being proud of it

can you square the second part of their hope with your current stance?

Smurf said...

It would be great if Fred could see past his hatred of the middle classes who are stealing houses from the noble dwellers of working class areas like Brockley and Catford. This seems to be the dog whistle that Fred answers to.

Surely you're too old to be envious?

fred vest said...

"Fred - you're grasping at staws now aren't you mate. Suggesting that the use of 'everyone' in their marketing means they have to come up with a socially equally product at your prefered price point"

i'm not the one grasping at straws, it's their marketing that seems to be doing that

Pete said...

How do you make a pub for "everyone"?

I would say it is impossible. Some people like pubs to play loud music and show football, other people hate this. It is impossible for a pub to meet everyone's desired criteria.

fred vest said...

"You did - you ignored this one, as quoted earlier:
"The Black Sheep Bitter was well kept and at £3.05 a pint much the going rate in London these days."
Even though it was at the top of the page. How your heart must have sunk to see that straight off!

Plus there are many other positive reviews of the pub, albeit not specifically mentioning the prices. If the reviewers liked it there then I'd say the prices obviously didn't bother them."

yep that one quote would have really evened up the record wouldn't it

as you say there were many other positive reviews of the pub, but not about price, which was what the question I was responding to was about - this seems to be a hard concept for most of you to grab here - did your tutors at uni not ram it home to you about making sure you actually answer the question asked?

Anonymous said...

I'll tell you something Fred. Locals on this site have been waiting for this refurb. They are unanimously in support of what the new owner is trying to do. The comments were positive until you starting to nitpick with a marketing statement.

It upsets alot of us. There must be 50 or more pubs between you and the Talbot. Drink there. Why are you actively trying to spoil things like an envious child?

fred vest said...

"How do you make a pub for "everyone"?"

exactly, so why do the owners wax lyrical about it being for everyone?

and if they don't actually mean 'everyone' then why say it

Headhunter said...

Fred - Why do they have to "admit" anything? Fortnum and Mason price at a certain level, your example, Porsche do the same. Anyone is free to shop at F&M or buy a Porsche if they so wish (or have the resources), it doesn't mean that either of these firms have to justify their product to anyone. If people find the new Talbot too expensive, they probably won't go there and it will fail. They don't have to declare their desired clientele.

Smurf said...

I'm sure everyone will be welcome in the pub so in that sense it will be for everyone.

If it doesn't appeal to you as a poor old class warrior then that's your loss and not really theirs.

Anonymous said...

"did your tutors at uni"

crux of the issue methinks. Fred has a great big ole chip on his shoulder. I'm standing out if this debate now. BUT I will be down at the Talbot from November enjoying my pints and sunday lunches. With a whole lot of braying friends.

fred vest said...

"They don't have to declare their desired clientele."

for the millionth time, unlike porsche or fortnum and mason they have already declared their desired clientele in their statement as being 'everyone'

i can guarantee if this was a council statment or policy that had the word 'everyone' in it and it didn't actually mean 'everyone' youse would be up in arms about the missuse of the word

and don't tell me you buy the free market rhetoric about anyone being free to buy stuff anywhere, it's meaningless toss as you know, effective cash backed demand is all that counts

Pete said...

If you can afford to drink 5 pints at £2 a pint you could still afford to drink 3 pints at £3.33 a pint. Therefore you would not be excluded from the new pub on cost grounds, unless you felt you had to have 5 pints.

Or is there something else which you feel will exclude people from the Talbot?

Bob said...

"yep that one quote would have really evened up the record wouldn't it"
That's not the point and you know it. Shift the goalposts why don't you?!
You denied selectively quoting from the reviews and I found a quote you ignored because it didn't tally with your argument. Admit it.

I didn't go to Uni by the way but thank you for the patronising tone - very 'inclusive' of you.

Smurf said...

Going back to what you started saying at the beginning you started with this diatribe:

" mix of obnoxious tory twats and bleeding heart liberals, lounging around on sofas reading the 'sundays' and twittering, congratulating themselves on how dam fine they all are and what a marvelously inclusive (in terms of the white, middle class, 30 something community) place it is"

Have you any idea how offensive this is? My god you're a chippy twat.

Hugh said...

It's great being able to afford however many pints you want whatever they cost.

fred vest said...

"If you can afford to drink 5 pints at £2 a pint you could still afford to drink 3 pints at £3.33 a pint. Therefore you would not be excluded from the new pub on cost grounds, unless you felt you had to have 5 pints. "

you're a master at reading pricing signals aren't you

fred vest said...

"Have you any idea how offensive this is?"

truth hurts?

Anonymous said...

I can't understand why someone who lives in Catford is so obssessed with Brockley. Of course this site is free for everyone to use, but I'm a Brockley resident and can't say I would really care less what a pub in Catford is doing. But do carry on, you're very entertaining!

Paul

Hugh said...

Fred, let me buy you a few pints. I have plenty of spare cash.

Pete said...

"you're a master at reading pricing signals aren't you"

So Fred, how would I be excluded again? Does this all go back to your hatred of the middle classes? Are you really saying that because a pub has middle class people in it poor old working class, salt of the earth types can't drink there any more?

fred vest said...

"That's not the point and you know it. Shift the goalposts why don't you?!
You denied selectively quoting from the reviews and I found a quote you ignored because it didn't tally with your argument. Admit it."

yes I admit i didn't include that one

do you admit it would make no difference to the overall consensus of views expressed by the comments on that site?

Smurf said...

"truth hurts?"

How the fuck would you know what the truth of the clientele of a pub that isn't even open is?

Anonymous said...

Fred Vest (aka Ross) has an anti-regeneration manifesto - as evidenced by his blog:
http://savecatford.org/cblog/
(highly recommended for insomniacs - he severely needs an editor!).
Just ignore the chippy fool.

fred vest said...

"Are you really saying that because a pub has middle class people in it poor old working class, salt of the earth types can't drink there any more?"

how many poor old working class salt of the earth types (whatever that actually means) and in what ratio do you see at jam circus? or any other similar type place (whose prices tend to be higher than average pubs)?

fred vest said...

"How the fuck"

think of the children

Pete said...

"how many poor old working class salt of the earth types (whatever that actually means) and in what ratio do you see at jam circus? or any other similar type place (whose prices tend to be higher than average pubs)?"

I don't know, can you tell if someone is working class just by looking? (DON'T answer that Hugh)

Anonymous said...

Oh god yes, usually by the protrustion of Windsor-style teeth.

fred vest said...

"Fred, let me buy you a few pints. I have plenty of spare cash."

good man

you scratch my back and i'll wax your crack

Headhunter said...

Fred - OK so the Prince Regent says the Talbot will be a pub for "everyone". Well derrr, of course! Do you really expect them to effectively say "we don't want your type round 'ere"/have a sign on the door saying "no chavs"? Pricing is one way of targetting a certain market without specifically declaring it. I know the free market is not perfect, but in this case it works efficiently. If you're happy to pay the price go, if you're not, don't.

4x4 said...

@Fred-Why are you so affraid of people having choice. If the pub is full of braying twats and the prices are too high, the chavs won't want to go anyway. I don't drink in the Brockley Barge because I am not too keen on some of the clientelle-nor they me-my choice and theirs.
The market will dictate whether this pub is successful or not and my guess is it will be. Give it six months and you will be begging them to open one in Catford.

sonofagun said...

Black Sheep at £3.05,Lager and Guinness are between 25p and 30p dearer than Bitter,So about £3.35 £3.40 Guinness And Lager.And that's the Fosters,Carling not the premium lagers

Headhunter said...

Oh good lord, Fred Vest has offered to wax Hugh's crack. Now that really is beyond the bounds of good taste....

Anonymous said...

HH A lot of these Chavs have more money than you or I,If not gotten legally

Headhunter said...

True anon, but money doesn't breed class and I still wouldn't want to drink with them. Hopefully they'll stay at The Barge even if they can afford the Talbot.

ladywell birdspotter said...

Please could we return to the discussion regarding Ward bounderies?

Anonymous said...

Imagine Headhunter on a night out. "Fancy a kebab?" "Oh no, is anyone selling fairtrade asparagus?"

fred vest said...

"I don't know, can you tell if someone is working class just by looking? (DON'T answer that Hugh)"

well you're the one who brought up the scenario in the first place, so if you don't know what you're asking then how am I meant to?

Headhunter said...

Actually I've got a funny story about asparagus at a party in Islington I went to a few years ago, but I'll have to tell you all in person...

fred vest said...

"Pricing is one way of targetting a certain market without specifically declaring it"

exactly the point i've been making all along, the deliberate inconsistency between the pricing policy of exclusion (although to be fair we don't know what it will be yet) and the marketing rhetoric of inclusion- if you don't mind the dishonesty within it then fair enough(although as i said you'd all be spitting feathers if the 'everyone' phrase was used in another/different context, council policy/statment etc and it turned out that the 'everyone' didn't actually mean 'everyone', then i'm sure you'd all be making the same arguement that i'm making now)

sonofagun said...

Does It Involve a girl then HH

Anonymous said...

HH, drinks on you at the Talbot opening then!
Fred will be there (watching enviously from behind a nearby bush before running back to Catford to have a cry).

Anonymous said...

Fred, you spelt 'argument' incorrectly. Perhaps that education which you constantly mock wouldn't be such a bad idea

fred vest said...

will they have bushes in the talbot?

Anonymous said...

Its not the pricing that will keep them away anyway,they will just have a few cheap supermarket drinks before they come out,And then go to the toilet 2 at a time,No there not gay,Just to line up the white stuff

fred vest said...

"Fred, you spelt 'argument' incorrectly"

about time someone struck the heart of the issue/debate here, well done for cutting through the clutter and getting to the crux of the issue

Headhunter said...

Oh god, Fred are you really comparing pricing in a pub in Brockley to exclusivity and alienation in council or government policy? Now you really are clutching at straws

Headhunter said...

Sonofagun - Girls were present, yes. I can't say any more on a public website.

Anonymous said...

I thought you'd appreciate my help Fred.

Anonymous said...

Fred is just saying that if a government event was marked as being for everyone and really wasn't, mung eaters would be starting petitions.

fred vest said...

"Oh god, Fred are you really comparing pricing in a pub in Brockley to exclusivity and alienation in council or government policy? Now you really are clutching at straws"

no, if you read my post you'll see i'm comparing the double standards in seeing nothing wrong with dishonesty in the use of language in one context but condeming it in another

fred vest said...

also the anon who pointed out I spelt 'argument' wrong was in fact incorrect, it was 'bob' who spelt it as 'argument' and I quoted him on it

egg on your face sucka!

(yes i am pedantic enough to go back and check)

Brockley Nick said...

Fred, how do you think you spell argument?

Anonymous said...

Fred, no you weren't. 'Arguement' was your spelling, there were no quotation marks.
To be fair, I'm bored and felt like winding you up a bit. I thought you'd be an easy target considering how wound up you are over the use of the word 'everyone' by the owners of a pub that isn't in your area or even open yet!

fred vest said...

i'm using the scottish spelling!

(hands up to my error though, i genuinely thought it was spelt arguement, and admit total defeat in this one, apologies to anon)

Headhunter said...

It's slightly different to argue against a council or government policy aimed at "everyone" whereas in fact it targets a minority than to argue that we should get similarly angry at a pub which does something similar.

If you don't like the pub you simply don't go there, end of story, if yuo don't like the government or council policy err, hard luck, your taxes pay for it and it affects you anyway. One is nothing like the other.

fred vest said...

"considering how wound up you are over the use of the word 'everyone' by the owners of a pub that isn't in your area or even open yet!"

not exactly wound up, just like pointing out inconsistencies and hypocritical behaviour

and let's be fair, if the 'everyone' issue came up in a different context that was deemed unsatsifactory to the consensus sentiment on this site, it would be a totally different story

Smurf said...

Seeing as you are a member of the IWCA it is pretty clear where you stand on this issue. You're not actually worth debating with as your opinion is already set in stone and you actually wish that people like me never moved to the area.

fred vest said...

"It's slightly different to argue against a council or government policy aimed at "everyone" whereas in fact it targets a minority than to argue that we should get similarly angry at a pub which does something similar."

translation:-

dishonesty is OK if we agree with the outcome

Anonymous said...

Can I give you a better example to fight your course with Fred? How about if the Portland bookmakers said that they would do their best to create an environment that would appeal to 'everyone' in Brockley. Discuss...

fred vest said...

then i'd say it was as bollocks as the claim by the talbot's new owners, and if they did say that they would be engaging in exactly the type of thing i'm arguing against here

(did they say that btw?)

Anonymous said...

ooops, now I'm spelling things incorrectly; that should have been 'cause' not 'course'
If only I'd gone to university...

Anonymous said...

"will they have bushes in the talbot?"
Probably in the garden yes.

I said...

http://www.iwca.org/ ??

This thread is becoming more strange.

Anonymous said...

no they didn't, I just thought it was a better example than the council/government thingy you put forward

fred vest said...

"ooops, now I'm spelling things incorrectly; that should have been 'cause' not 'course'
If only I'd gone to university..."

arguement

Anonymous said...

On the subject of Portland, it never quite bring the Brockley Apocalypse as fortold by the Mung Elders did it?

Anonymous said...

HH, any pretty boys at the party too?

fred vest said...

"This thread is becoming more strange."

window cleaners have a notorious reputation for their hard line views on such matters

Anonymous said...

Nice link Fred! How long did it take you to find that? The question is, how long can I string you into an argument about it now?

fred vest said...

"On the subject of Portland, it never quite bring the Brockley Apocalypse as fortold by the Mung Elders did it?"

what, do you mean prior to the place actually opening many people on here made judgements about what the place might be like and the effects of it?

I find that hard to believe as everyone has finger wagged me for doing a similar thing and I can't imagine for one second that when the tables are turned they would adopt a completely different approach

Anonymous said...

ahhh, i see you finally got my point Fred. I hadn't realised you weren't around for the Portland debacle

drakefell debaser said...

Seeing as you are a member of the IWCA it is pretty clear where you stand on this issue

Excuse my ignorance but I have googled IWCA and got the following results:

International Window Cleaning Association
International Writing Centres Association
Irish wolfhound Club of America
Independent Working Class Association
International Wildfowl Carvers Association
International Wing Chun Academy
International Woman Coffee Alliance

These are noted as they appear on google so is it window cleaning by any chance?

fred vest said...

"How long did it take you to find that?"

i found it when googling arguement to find out how it should be spelt!

"The question is, how long can I string you into an argument about it now?"

i'm getting paid for this so as long as you want partner

Tressillian James said...

No Fred - noone here was complaining about how much a bet would be or the odds. Or even if there would be ikea recling chairs for us in the bookies.

No we were concerned about the quantity of bookies in the area. Quite a different argument.

fred vest said...

"These are noted as they appear on google so is it window cleaning by any chance?"

nah, it's the womens' coffee thing

fred vest said...

"No we were concerned about the quantity of bookies in the area. Quite a different argument."

so basically making judgements about the impact of a place prior to it opening then?

on this matter though, why aren't the great co-ordinating role of market forces not deferred to when it's something youse lot don't like opening up near you?

ditto fried chicken joints

Anonymous said...

You get paid for writing on Brockley Central? I hope Nick's not paying you by the word or he's gonna be friggin' skint!

fred vest said...

every site needs a muse

Tressillian James said...

Actually lots of us did make the argument about market forces.

Please read the thread on Portlands to look at it in more detail. The concerns were around influence on vulnerable groups in the society due to the ease of accesss. If you were arguing that the Talbot should not go ahead because you are concerned about the availaibitly of alcohol to some of the areas residents then maybe people would listen. But you are not. You are arguing that it will be full of people you don't like.

And before you think it - I'm from a working class family myself - so I find your views even more abhorrent.

OK thats me done on this - I'm out on this one .

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

After reading this load of petty Tut I wouldn't be suprised if Felix ups anchor and sails off into the sunset.

I'd be tempted if I were him.....

See you for a pint in the Wickham later S ofa G.

Headhunter said...

Fred "dishonesty is OK if we agree with the outcome" - the new landlord is not being dishonest, he has made a statement and you have declared that he is being dishonest in his pricing. I yuo don't like it don't got there. very different from the council or govt handing down a new law affecting everyone. No choice to go elsewhere.

Anon 16.40 - Well I was there, so there was at least 1.

fred vest said...

"The concerns were around influence on vulnerable groups in the society due to the ease of accesss."

concerns that it wasn't the 'right' type of business for brockley wrapped up in a thin cloak of liberal benevolence for vulnerable people more like

did you campaign to get internet gambling sites blocked to these vulnerable people in brockley out of the same honourable sentiment?


"If you were arguing that the Talbot should not go ahead because you are concerned about the availaibitly of alcohol to some of the areas residents then maybe people would listen. But you are not. You are arguing that it will be full of people you don't like."

no, i'm arguing about the dishonesty and contradiction between the inclusiveness explicitly suggested in the marketing statements and the exclusiveness implicitly contained within their likely pricing policy. If you had read the thread you would have seen this, and also seen that I've said there's nothing wrong with admitting that your pub is for a certain type of person (regardless of whether that's a type of person I like or dislike), and at least some people on here, whose views i don't agree with, are at least honest enough to admit this

"And before you think it - I'm from a working class family myself - so I find your views even more abhorrent."

so what, are the working class some big homoegnous lump with exactly the same thoughts, hopes, dreams, fears, desires, fantasies and insecurities that should all think and react/act in exactly the same way? no, of course not

Anonymous said...

I can't wait to move to Brockley - you guys are awesome!

fred vest said...

"After reading this load of petty Tut I wouldn't be suprised if Felix ups anchor and sails off into the sunset.

I'd be tempted if I were him....."

well if he (or you) gets put off opening a pub by the comments of one person on the internet who is highly unlikely to frequent the place (apart from the opening night raspberry belini drinkie poo night) then more fool him

fred vest said...

anyway, thanks to all my correspondents for a pleasurable afternoon of social intercourse but I unfortunately have to clock off now

off to meet hugh for a waxing

Headhunter said...

My god Fred, you lightened up there for a moment. Steady now....

what's in a name said...

I am sure your employer, assuming you have one, is pleased with your efforts this afternoon fred.

SonofaGun said...

Hope this conversation wont happen when the Talbot opens,God I will have to ask for the Muzak to be turned up.

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

People really shouldn't rise to Fred's comments.

He's only playing Devil's advocate.

I think.....

Anonymous said...

The lapdancers will leave 'em speechless.

patrick1971 said...

Is this the best BC thread ever? It has certainly brightened up my morning.

For the record, I didn't want the bookmakers (or the lap-dancing club) because of the clientele they would attract, and I would far rather spend time with the people the Talbot will attract than the people the Barge does attract. So shoot me.

Hugh said...

I bet Fred's itching to restart this.

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

I shall be visiting the Prince Regent on the way back home tonight.

Will report on my findings and whether they stock Planters dry roasted.

Anonymous said...

"bookmakers ... because of the clientele they would attract"

doesn't the Queen like a flutter?

or perhaps that's your point.

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