Boris set to abolish Brockley pedestrian crossing
The Mayor of London has published a list of pedestrian crossings which he is proposing to remove, saying they are 'no longer useful'.
One such crossing on the list is on Lewisham Way, by the end of Tyrwhitt Road. As anyone who has ever walked down Lewisham Way knows, this stretch of road is busy and fast-moving. People will still want to cross it - without a crossing at this point, their attempts to cross will be significantly more dangerous.
Bad idea, Boris.
PS. Other crossings in Lewisham which are on the list are:
- Lewisham Rd by Morden Hill
- Torridon Rd / Hither Green Lane
- Hither Green Lane / Duncrieve Way
66 comments:
There are two crossing here which are too close together. However, I've never witnessed any traffic congestion that can be attributed to them so I don't see the need to remove either of them,particularly during a recession.
This one?
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Tyrwhitt+Road,+Lewisham,+United+Kingdom&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=57.945758,135.263672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Tyrwhitt+Rd,+Lewisham,+Greater+London+SE4+1,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.467804,-0.023668&spn=0.011295,0.033023&z=16&layer=c&cbll=51.467848,-0.023783&panoid=KX-K39DXkrTzb_XTxH3-FA&cbp=12,127.16,,0,8.45
I'd say it's pretty useless and there are plenty of easier ways of crossing the road without making traffic grind to a halt.
This is all part of Kulveer Ranger's strategy to reprioritise the car, ahead of pedestrians. It's not a bad idea, it's a terrible one.
Presumably, that's one that a lot of people use to get to St John's station.
As has been suggested before, Lewisham Way should be developed as a high-street, not treated as somewhere just to drive down as fast as possible.
how is this justified in any way?
Cannot believe that anyone would even THINK of getting rid of crossings! God god GOD. To think they have done studies into what to abolish, ie into how to make life that little bit worse. Geez you just lose all hope sometimes.
We need zebra crossings at Lewisham Way. Bad idea Boris.
Why is anything that changes pedestrianisation a little bit met with a knee-jerk munging?
Hardly changing it 'a little bit'. But then you must know that and if you don't...
Really, really bad idea! The nearest crossing otherwise is the one opposite Lewisham college (up hill) and almost Loampit Vale well beyond the surgery (downhill). It may seem like a blip of a distance in a car but when you are walking it's a major hike especially if you have to double back on yourself. I suspect more people will take risks crossing that busy road than they do already.
Isn't that the crossing lots of children must use to get to St Stephen's and Ashmead primary schools?
This was only put in 2 or 3 years ago because so many people jay walked across there going to St Johns from Tyrwhitt and all point east - myself included.
I predict if it removed people will revert and before long someone will be killed on the brow of what is essentially a blind crest.
@Tm - good post. How could any unbiased survey not raise these issues?!
This all comes back to Boris' strategy to win votes from the outer boroughs, where car-driving is the norm and where they believe that London would be nirvana for drivers if only you scrapped bendy buses and "re-phased" traffic lights to suit cars.
Nick, by accident or design the truncated form of this heading you see above Latest Comments looks even more dramatic than the full version!
I believe there are proposals to also remove 145 sets of traffic lights.
The reasoning is to assist traffic flow.
This reasoning is used to justify not providing a safe crossing at the junction of Lewisham High St and Courthill Road, where there have been a number of series accidents.
If they tot up the road closures and delays caused by the accidents they'll likely find it far exceeds any time saved by not having a safe crossing.
What about Boris's other survey into air pollution....looks like Brockley tops the list in Lewisham?
"I predict if it removed people will revert and before long someone will be killed on the brow of what is essentially a blind crest"
I agree, it's essential - probably more so than the next one along (heading towards New Cross). People cross there all the time, because there's a line of shops, a pub and a road leading to to a large residential area. And speaking as someone who's often driven along there, the crest of the hill makes it very difficult to see.
Any congestion on Lewisham Way occurs because of the traffic lights and roundabout in Lewisham itself.
Lewisham Way usually strikes me as remarkably uncongested - certainly compared with the stretches through New Cross Gate and Peckham.
Bonkers Im afraid.
How do we protest?
I dread to think of the money wasted on such "studies"....
There's 3 within a 100yrds of Tyrwhitt Road,a bit too many me thinks.
There' 1 by St John's Vale anyway,or is it too far past it for people.God no wonder we have so many obese people in this country.
"There are two crossing here which are too close together."
As others have said, there are reasons why the crossings are there (St Johns stations, schoolkids, the college, blind crest). As residents in the locality (Ashmead Road) we certainly appreciate having them there when returning from Hilly Fields and other points south.
Furthermore if you're a driver wanting to turn right from the Breakspears Rd junction, then it being bracketed by the two crossings can be very useful when the traffic streams on the main road are very dense.
Regards
Luke
Boris has spent twice as much on consultants in two years than Ken did in the same period ( 9 million) Pity then that for this issue he obviously had a team consisting of his pal Clarkson and the Chuckle Brothers.
Arsehole. ( Johnson that is)
A completely useful and necessary crossing, to get rid of it would be stupid. It would lead to people taking risks crossing there rather than walking to another one especially for example if you're running to catch a train, or late for school.
Yet another insane policy from the tories. FIngers firmly crossed that the electorate will see sense and replace Boris with anyone else at the next mayoral elections.
People ignore the crossing now anyway.
Think of the children!!!
Shame that there is no real opposition.
New Labour is the Tories in a new suit whilst the Lib Dem's new suit has a bright blue waiscoat.
The Greens have no chance if there is more that a 25% turnout.
This is a really stupid idea. all three crossings on that section of Lewisham way going down to New Cross are really important - st johns station, school kids, the college, shops etc
any idea if the council will oppose this? or if our local councillors are at least going to do anything? or is there an online petition, template letter?
Boris, old son; Its time to dust this one off. Do visit us again.
Just when they should be thinking were to put additional crossings.
What about another one down the hill where the Doctors and nursery are.
Absolutely pointless and probably quite dangerous. Boris you F'ing C.
Seriously, where do you complain? I use that crossing a lot when returning from central London to St John's and heading back to Manor Ave. Without it, crossing is a nightmare. I was thinking the other day that we need another crossing in front of Tesco on Lewisham Way, or at least we need to move the crossing at the end of Upper Brockley Rd a bit further up, people are perpetually dashing across that road to get to Tezzies or the other shops on Lewisham Way, between heavy traffic of buses, coach loads of toursist from Poland and maniac car commuters and white van men.
Presumably it's TfL. I'll enquire via their press office.
i lived on that end of tyrwhitt road for four years and used the doomed crossing virtually every day. it is utter madness to remove it. at peak going to work/coming home times it is very well utilised by people using st johns. trying to cross there without the lights is dicing with death, it's a pretty blind run up from the lewisham side. a woman crossing behind me once a few years ago was seriously hurt when hit by a speeding car using the bus lane from the new cross side of the crossing - despite us having a green light to cross. it put the fear of god in me about crossing there for a long time after.
Terrible idea. Sign me up for a complaint.
Come on guys,If you turn right coming from St Johns theres a crossing right there,how many more crossing's do we need ?.Likewise going to the station.
Why is it such a big deal for cars to MAYBE have to stop one more time?
Far less inconvenient for them than for pedestrians to walk along to another crossing - or risk their lives dashing across through the traffic.
Dont dash,walk to the crossing by the College.
Here are the relevant lines in the TfL release:
"They will be holding discussions with local boroughs and stakeholders about whether these traffic signals could be removed or replaced with alternative measures, to further smooth traffic flow in the Capital.
"Kulveer Ranger, the Mayor's Transport Advisor, said: 'There are few things more annoying than sitting at a traffic light on red for no apparent reason and we've now identified 145 sites where we think the signals may no longer be doing a useful job."
Few things more annoying, except perhaps, having to walk an extra 500 yards to cross safely to get to school or the station. Or indeed, getting run over. That's quite annoying too.
BoJo will be visiting the London Youth Games in Crystal Palace on Sunday if anyone wants to make a complaint in person , , , ,
Please do not push him into the pool when he visits the swimming though . . .
This is stupid. It is an extremely well used crossing. At 8.50am this morning when I crossed it with my 2 children on the way to school, I did a quick tot-up - at the same time as us, there were a further 10 children plus about 6 adults using it.
Yes, of course we could walk further down to the college crossing and we will have to do that - however, lots of people won't do that because they're late or lazy. It does mean slightly doubling back on yourself. Accidents will occur and they might involve children. There are older primary school children who walk to school on their own and they need a crossing. I think this one AND the college one are both vital.
I too am a concerned local yummy mummy who feels threatened by change.
Don't be a plonker.
It's not a question of fearing change, it's a matter or pointing out the glaring problems in this specific proposal, which is the direct result of a flawed strategy to re-prioritise cars over pedestrians.
And it's being challenged by a coalition of just about everyone who knows what it's like to have to cross that stretch of road.
Well, to be honest, Kulveer does have a point, it wastes time and petrol, waiting at a crossing which no one is at. So if the lights are reprogrammed to work when pushed, that isn't such a bad thing in my view.
Of course it wastes time to wait at a crossing that no-one is crossing.
So put in a button for people to push to get the lights to change, if that's the concern.
Cars over pedestrians,there's at the moment 3 crossings within a 100yrds of one another,and for the sake of having to walk an extra 10yrds.
That crossing does not contribute to congestion. The only time Lewisham Way is ever clogged at that point is if there is a problem in Lewisham town centre.
Speaking as someone who drives down Lewisham Way fairly often, that crossing has never struck me as being an inconvenience, let alone a problem so severe that it should be removed to the detriment of people trying to get to school or the local station.
Off the point entirely butif you are going to Lewisham on a a bus get a ticket- there is a mass police presence ( well about 5) and inspectors at the bus stop opposite carpet right.
Does Boris really have the power to abolish Brockley?
You do have to press a button, the lights don't change of their own accord.
The only reason people might be on a red with no-one crossing is when people press the button and then nip across before the lights actually change. This can happen as they're set to change after a suitable delay (to prevent cars having to slam on the brakes).
I suggest people look up their ward councillors and ask them to bend some relevant ears.
@LB - exactly - I was talking about general case. Ranger is arguing with straw men, to pander to people who think London's traffic would flow smoothly if only there wasn't a conspiracy to phase lights and dig up roads to punish motorists.
How did people get to the School,Station, before the Crossing was there ? The mind boggles.
The problem with London is simply that there's too much private car traffic. It's unsustainable. The centre of London isn't exactly one of the world's great planned cities, and the situation's been exacerbated by some of the most expensive public transport in the world. Traffic will never flow effectively under such circumstances, so removing a few crossings is a bit like rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.
"How did people get to the School,Station, before the Crossing was there ? The mind boggles"
The same way as before, except periodically getting hit by cars.
When the two new crossing were put in - the one near Tyrwhitt Rd and the one just beyond the College front entrance - the intention was to remove the middle one near the college car park.
For some reason this was never done.
Why not return to the original intention and keep every one happy?
Or not
Yup, it would make more sense to remove the middle pedestrian crossing (at the bottom of Tresillian Rd near where the Surgery used to be) if one pedestrian crossing really had to me removed.
But that would presuppose that that politicians had any sense in the first place.
Removing the pedestrian crossing is a stupid idea executed in a boneheaded way.
Alternatively, BoJo is actually thinking ahead and planning ways of making traffic congestion seem less bad than it would be if he were to sharply increase fares and/or reduce public transport services as part of the current austerity drive.
That would mean people coming out of Tressillian Road would have to go out of there way.The story rages on.
This latest idea by Boris shows why TFL are not interested in improving pedestrian safety at the junction of Courthill Road/Whitburn Road where it meets Lewisham High Street(just by Ladywell Pools and the Snooker Hall is on the corner). The lights are not phased to let anyone cross those roads; the reason given is that if the lights are altered to do so,it will delay the buses by at least 6-8minutes and add as much to car journeys!
From a car driver's perspective I can't see why they just don't leave them all in place. The lights only come on red when people need to cross - and for the minimum amount of time. I've never experienced congestion caused by these lights and they often give a break in the traffic which allows cars from the side roads to get onto Lewisham Way.
Why go to the expense of removing something tha tis not causing a problem but actually helps road safety?
As someone outlined above, this is simply re arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. It will make zero difference to drivers on Lewisham Way. As Nick points out, congestion on Lewisham Way generally occurs due to massive traffic flow through the roundabout in Lewisham, not because of a couple of pedestrian crossings! I cycle along Lewisham Way down to Lewisham every weekend and never really have problems with traffic until the lights by Mothercare, just before the station and roundabout. TfL is obviously trying to justify its existence and trying to be seen to be doing something.
Definitely not April 1st, so I'll bother putting in my penny worth. Green Cross man, lovely that you enjoy walking further to the station. I am very happy to use the crossing on my way. I am also happy that it is there, as it gives me a chance when cycling to do a right turn up into Tyrwhitt Road. Something needs to slow the traffic and give us some breaks for getting across the road.
The people using these crossings are already walking home. Lots with small children. It's the car drivers who need to be exercising more.
Yes, Tressilliana it is the crossing used by children who walk to school.
This is a relatively recent pedestrian crossing, I was quite happy with the island crossing handily located for when you got off the bus. Some one saw fit to take it out for a pelican, so I used to have to walk back up the road to cross. May have helped me stopped getting obese, but then I still have to get up the hill and had to get to the initial bus stop in the first place. It wasn't the exercise I object to Green Cross and others, it is the extra time it all ends up taking...yes minutes count.
Even when driving the pelicans are handy for letting you get in and out on busy days. Can't say I've ever felt inconvenienced when in the car.
How do we stop this stupid idea?
"if one pedestrian crossing really had to me removed"
You been on the sauce already today ND?
I just have never felt inconvenienced at having to stop for crossing pedestrians on any of these crossings. Even as a driver I feel quite relieved they are there, so you have a chance to pull out onto Lewisham way.
Traffic flow problems are from the roundabout at bottom of hill. Did the Lewisham traffic engineer who made such a bad job of that move on to tfl?
Brockley and Ladywell Councillors have mounted a joint campaign to save the pedestrian crossing at the junction of Lewisham Way and Tyrwhitt Road. Vicky Foxcroft and I were at the threatened crossing this morning collecting signiatures for a petition calling on Mayor Boris Johnson to withdraw his threat to the much used crossing. We plan to ask our local Member of the London Assembly, Len Duvall, to present the petition at City Hall in September. Labour Councillors will be out collecting more signiatures during August. The nearby newsagents shop is also carrying the petition and the petition has an on line presence at: http://tinyurl.com/keepourcrossing
This crossing has been out of action the last 2 mornings (but worked last night) - anyone any idea why? Is it just broken?
I love the way the title of this thread comes up in the "recent posts"...
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