Guest column: Controlled Parking Zones

Following an excellent column by Lewisham Council officer Nigel Tyrell about waste management, we're very happy to bring you this article by officer Lesley Brooks, who is responsible for the equally contentious topic of Travel Demand Management - in particular, CPZs. The article follows intense discussion on this site of the question of whether Brockley needs a CPZ and the Council's recent decision to increase charges for existing CPZs.

Here's what she says:

Good parking provision is crucial and effective parking controls benefit everyone. Of course, if you’ve just been given a ticket, or you are paying for a parking permit, you might not immediately see it like that. But, despite popular opinion, our work is driven by a desire to manage parking in the borough on a fair and consistent basis.

We aim to balance the needs of all road users and to manage the competing pressures to park on unrestricted kerbside space, especially in areas of high parking demand. The main interest to the Council is the impact parking has upon factors such as: congestion; carbon emissions and pollutants; safety; sustainable transport; business activity and town centre viability; and urban design, landscape and streetscape.

The Council manages parking on all roads in the borough except priority routes – usually A roads – which are managed by Transport for London. In areas where parking controls exist we manage permits for residents, businesses, visitors, carers and health workers. We also enforce parking in pay and display areas.

Car ownership is rising steadily, increasing the parking pressures on already overcrowded roads. In many places residents now find it difficult to park anywhere near their homes. This can present major difficulties for some people and can seriously affect their quality of life, especially for parents with young children, the elderly and for those with health and mobility issues. Areas where there is heavy pressure on parking space are often found near railway stations, shops, hospitals and colleges. Sometimes quite a large area is affected, but in other cases problems
are concentrated in just a few streets.

A Controlled Parking Zone (CPZ) can sometimes resolve these difficulties. The main purpose of a CPZ is to manage vehicle overcrowding. They help to control intrusive parking by limiting parking availability and give priority to residents and businesses, whilst providing short term parking for shoppers, visitors and social users.

The Council also uses CPZs to help the regeneration of our local town centres. All space other than residents’ and business’ parking space in a CPZ is short stay space. This ensures that there is more space available for people making short trips to the shops or to use local facilities.

CPZs also help to improve the local quality of life by removing obstructive parking from junctions and corners and allowing free access for local people and the emergency services.

In designing a CPZ we seek to balance competing demands and the need for car parking space, priority is given in the following order:

1. Residents
2. Shoppers, visitors, those servicing local businesses and directly adding to the local economy
3. Local workers
4. Commuters

Higher priority is given within these groups for people with mobility impairment.

The introduction of a CPZ needs to consider parking demand, supply, pricing, safety, economic and financial feasibility issues, site characteristics and local features.

Local features that increase parking pressure are commonly known as parking attractors. When designing a CPZ these parking attractors will play a vital role within the CPZ design. When controls are placed around these parking attractors particular attention should be given to areas that are within a short walking or cycling distance away, from which people can park and then walk or cycle on to the destination. This brings areas up to five miles from a particular local feature into play – and pressures on areas even further away will increase as people become more willing to cycle further distances.

The Council only introduces CPZs where there is support from a majority of residents. We do not seek to impose controls where residents don't want them. And we certainly do not seek to use CPZs – or any other parking restrictions or traffic management controls – as a means of making money for the Council.

Indeed, the Council can only use any surplus income from on-street parking – that is to say, income over and above the cost of running the service – to pay for work to repair and improve the borough’s roads, and to make them safer. So all road users benefit from parking charges. An increase in income from these charges means the Council can reduce the amount of its general budget (paid for by all tax-payers) it needs to spend on maintaining the roads. The total parking income earned in the last full financial year, 2009/10, was £5.16m: the service cost £4.48m leaving a surplus of £680,000, which was spent on improved lighting (£530,000) and traffic management schemes (£150,000).

We have raised charges this year as part of a raft of measures the Council has agreed to meet the huge savings required of it in response to cuts in Government funding - £33m needed to balance the budget just this year. No area of service has been immune to savings or the need to increase income. I recognise the rise in charges in many cases has been steep. But we have set the new charges with reference to those charged in other parts of the capital. The new price for an annual residents’ permit, for example, at £120 is at the London median for 2010/11 – and that median will undoubtedly rise as other councils also feel the need to raise charges this year.

In the Our Lewisham, Our Say consultation last year many people said they would pay extra for services rather than see them cut. Raising parking charges is a way of making sure we can continue to invest in making our roads safer. However, councillors did agree other cost savings for the parking service. This will look at the provision of back office functions and will seek the removal of pay and display equipment as we roll out parking payments by mobile phone.

I hope that I have helped to answer some of your questions about parking and to respond to some of your inevitable frustrations. I look forward to your comments.

90 comments:

max said...

I'm sorry, there are important passages of this that are very difficult to believe.

Visitors' permits have been raised from £8 to £28 a week.
At this price it's not even a service, it's an impedment to receiving visits people may need.

I am a supporter of CPZ in principle but with these fees anyone on a low income would be mad to vote in favour.

Anonymous said...

Shouldn't they be charging good, honest fares for permits?

patrick1971 said...

Anyone on a low income shouldn't be able to afford a car.

Anonymous said...

Bollocks again, Patrick!

max said...

Weekly visitors' permits.

Now Patrick, just to say how wrong you are this is about visitors' permits, so you don't need to have a car for the priviledge.
If you need visits from a carer (your mum coming to help with childcare or a plumber) that's £28 a week.

And by the way £28 is what a week of pay and display costs to anyone, so to say that residents are given special thought is nonsense.

max said...

And I really like this bit.

"An increase in income from these charges means the Council can reduce the amount of its general budget (paid for by all tax-payers) it needs to spend on maintaining the roads."

It basically says that some people pay more so that others can pay less for the same service.

popol said...

I really do not want a cpz it will just add an additional level of stress to life.

TJ said...

Agree with Max.

At therse rates we should be extrememly cautious aobut any increase oin CPZs and what they mean to the more vulnerable in pour community.

Ed CPZ said...

Nigel, so far as I can tell there would be a clear net benefit for the main stakeholders (particularly residents and businesses within a hundred yards or so) in having a CPZ on Coulgate Street/Brockley Station area. The issues are well documented on this site and I believe that Nick has provided the council with photgraphs showing some of the more egregious parking behaviour, especially how the unmarked/controlled road is used by a local van hire Firm as a parking lot.

Would you kndly let us know what plans exist, if any, to introduce a CPZ to address these issues?

I should say that I have an outstanding wager with Nick (or another regular BCer, I forget) that we will have CPZ by 'years end'...

bumbags said...

Ed CPZ- I'm for a CPZ too, but limiting it to the roads around the station will see further problems on the surrounding roads. I'm Upper Brockley Rd, and it's already very, very full, often used by several vans and commuters. The CPZ would certainly need to go far enough out to make Brockley unappealing to the people who now park at the station.
@Max- I hadn't seen the £28 weekly charge for visitors- this is obscene. In Brent visitors permit scratch cards are £1 a day.

brewed said...

There's some selfish people who live slap bang next to a station, yet have a car but they want the streets where they live clear, but forget about the rest of Brockley, who'd be impacted.

brewed said...

There's some selfish people who live slap bang next to a station, yet have a car but they want the streets where they live clear, but forget about the rest of Brockley, who'd be impacted.

Ed CPZ said...

@brewed. I am one of those selfish people and every day I see people getting off the train and into their cars parked on Coulgate streets. If you are local you walk, if you are not, then you should be prevented from using our local streets as a zone 2 commuter car park.

Then there are the vans; local sure but an utterly disproportionate use of limited local resources and I have heard that they should in fact be using commercial space.

What is wrong with prioritising local parking resources for locals? OK we have to pay but paying to park is better than not paying to not park...

Tamsin said...

But don't you notoriously pay not to park? Permits are dished out to residents but without necessarily there being enough of the little painted boxes for them all to park in. Or is that just a Kensington and Chelsea urban myth?

Ed CPZ said...

My only experience was in Lambeth and then it seemed that only those living on our street parked on our street and usually within 50 yards of home... Like!

Think CPZ said...

Bring CPZ to Brockley at one. Residents with cars around the station are tired to deal with commuters and vans.

patrick1971 said...

Sorry, no sympathy. If your mum's coming to mind the kids she can get the bus, same as everyone else.

Tradesmen could be catered for in an innovative scheme, rather than treated as visitors.

Having a car in London is an anti-social act; pay for it.

bumbags said...

@Patrick1971 We ARE offering to pay for the 'anti-social act'- paying to park outside our homes. This isn't time for your people vs cars rant. I won't start telling you about how my car is needed for my job and only used when I'm not cycling, which I do A LOT, or on public transport... But ANYWAY- This is local car owners vs non-local car owners, and an issue about parking being difficult. People driving to Brockley to park then commute must be more anti-social, no? A CPZ would reduce traffic into Brockley, and the number of large vans parking along residential streets, which are an eye-sore, and make crossing roads for pedestrians more dangerous.

Running Nutter said...

I think CPZ is a good solution for the roads around Brockley Station but care has to be taken that it doesn't just spread the problem outward. so that means including cranfield etc.

Foxberry said...

Bring us a CPZ!! Totally impossible for residents around the station. Much worse since the ell opened. These days we sometimes have to park whole streets away which is a nightmare with young kids.

Anonymous said...

Yes to a cpz please! Just one hour in the day would help, say 11-12. However it should just be one zone around station not several codes.

Anonymous said...

A tax on cyclists is long overdue as is compulsary insurance.

Anonymous said...

CPZ should cover a wider area around the station including brockley cross, coulgate, foxberry, harefield, cranfield. It is really impossible for people living on these streets. Commuters and vans take up most of the parking spaces, including yellow lines and driveways. The area should be wide so that people do not have an incentive to drive, park and walk to the station.

Anonymous said...

No to the CPZ and no to the Mung Bean Elite.

grace said...

I don't know why but it saddens me up when people say things like its nightmare because they've had to park a few streets from their home. We are so LUCKY in this country. Be THANKFUL that you have car, a home and kids rather than complain about the "nightmare" about having to park a few streets from your home.

Graham said...

I don't think the issue of non residents parking in and around the station is just confined to the east side of the station only. I live on Arica Road and don't have a car and every day someone parks outside of my house and makes their way to the station. I'm in favour of a single CPZ in the road around the station on all sides so long as it is reasonably priced and the disabled, delivery van etc are exempted.

Anonymous said...

@Graham - west side too!

Anonymous said...

@grace - I bet you are one of the commuters.

I do consider myself happy. However I paid for my house and I am not sure why it should be right that people that come from other areas to park and commute.

Please explain why do you think is also right that I find vans parked in front of my windows every day.

grace said...

I most certainly am not. I just find it sad that people don't appreciate what they have and then use such emotive language about something that really when you look at it in the wider context of your life is pretty tiny.

Anonymous said...

The current pricing meets the costs of £4.48m plus a surplus of £680,000 = £5.16m.

If costs remain the same or are reduced won't doubling the pricing of permits mean the surplus will be around £6m?

When people said they'd be prepared to pay more for a service I would think they meant for rents, swimming, library fines, photocopying lumber clearance etc, where the charges are currently subsidised.

As someone who's never owned a car the price increases look exccessive.

I think Lewisham has one of if not the highest council tax rates in London...so we can expect council tax to come down this year to the London median?

Ed CPZ said...

@Grace. 'Emotive language... be thankful'? Shouldn't you consider your sadness at comments on this site in the same context...

Whilst there are of course bigger/other issues this is an emotive topic for BX locals as the inconvenience, unfairness and sheer absurdity grate on a daily basis.

Anonymous said...

I'm with Grace on this one, there have been various times in my own life where I would have wished that the nightmares I had to contend with involved walking little Hugh and Fearnley from a car on the next street to my house.

Such spoilt, horrible people.

Westsider said...

Oh give over! What so, now people can't use slightly over the top language to make a point!?

In that case, how do you justify calling people "horrible" when you don't even know them?

When someone says they're starving, do you tell them they're horribly insensitive when there are so many starving people in the world or do you say, me too, let's get something to eat!

Anonymous said...

Dear Grace I believe you are using very strong language. I am not sure why you think you can judge what people should and should not complain about.

Beside you may have a point if the problem of parking had no easy solution.

If there were no spaces and I had to park far away because my neighbour has filled the only space available I think you may be correct. However when companies relocate to Brockley because the parking is free and fill the spaces with vans, and non local ,very thoughtfully, take advantage of the space near the station to avoid to walk few hundred meters, I think you are wrong. There is a solution, it is very simple and is the CPZ. Locals with cars are happy to pay, so I am not sure why we should wait or ask people like you that do not live locally nor commute here.

Explain your personal interest in all of this, and support us with the CPZ so it is implemented and we can move on

Brockley Nick said...

The original article suggests Lesley will read the comments below and hopefully even respond.

So I'd like to ask a non-loaded question:

The lovely new East London Line is an obvious example of an "attractor" that you mention. The station is increasingly popular and Brockley residents have not been asked their views on CPZs for some time in any formal way.

But you say you'll only introduce a CPZ if the majority of locals support the idea.

So, given this, will the Council conduct a local survey to determine whether Brockley residents support a CPZ around the station?

I'm still in two minds myself, but it seems to me that there is a clear demand for one and the regeneration case is also good - it remains to be seen whether this would be a majority view though.

Anonymous said...

How do you work out if there's a majority view? Those who have a strong viewpoint on it tend to be those who want change. The majority of people might not want a CPZ but a vocal proportion will be militant about getting one.

Anonymous said...

Oh, come on- asking people not to complain about their parking problems on an internet forum to discuss parking problems????
Nobody is equating it with famine and homelessness. But late at night, arriving back from work after midnight, on my own, with heavy equipment or shopping to get inside, it is annoying (and can feel unsafe) when I have to carry heavy things a long way. My alternative is to double-park and unload, which I don't like doing in case it inconveniences anyone else.
When the people parked along my road are commercial vans that's annoying

Oaksys said...

Sadly Local Authorities are a bit like vampires. Invite them over the threshold and they'll use the opportunity to suck you dry.
To give an example there is one parking tax camera in Tower Hamlets which alone attracts in the region of £230,000 parking fines every year. You know what? Parking space is still terrible there.
I'm sad to say if local people support a CPZ in Brockley near the station the only real effect will be its use as a revenue source for Lewisham Council. Soon all to soon the parking revenue will be increased way above the actual cost of administration.

Anonymous said...

Also a security issue. I use my car rarely. Cars are expensive and owners like to keep an eye on them. If they are parked many streets away, who would tell me if it was broken into or stolen? My insurance premium would probably go up... So I rather pay for a parking permit
.

brewed said...

You use your car rarely? If only people in situations like this could be turned onto Streetcar.

Brockley Nick said...

How do you work out if there's a majority view? You do a survey.

Charlie said...

Hmm...

I'm in two minds. Yes, it would be nice to be able to park outside my house every day. But then I pretty much can on most days, unless I'm trying to park at peak times in the morning, or on a Sunday near the church.
On the other hand, it's a bit of a bugger for having family come to visit, who stay for a week or so and would need to pay for the parking.
My ideal would be for the zone to be only active between 12:00 and 13:00. That would put off the commuters, which is all that is needed. It wouldn't stop people popping over in the evening.
stream of conciousness over.

Anonymous said...

Car sharing. Would you rent your car to your neighbours?

http://www.whipcar.com/

Brockley Nick said...

RE: Whipcar, no I wouldn't. Too many hassles involved. Imagine hiring your neighbour's car and denting it. Even though they're insured it would make for an awkward conversation.

In fact, what I think Whipcar does is facilitate people to act as their small car-hire firms. ie: buy a car or two for the express purpose of hiring them out. I doubt it helps reduce parking problems. I think traditional car clubs are a better idea.

Anonymous said...

Maybe a good solution for Charlie. I am not sure why your family cannot take a train to come and visit you. Or just buy daily or weekly permits.

Nick you are very definitive in your conclusions. Perhaps a bit of math would make you change your mind. If you buy a second car for 5k + insurance + tax + mot + cpz you will need to rent it out for 216 days. I really do not think that it is economical to buy cars and rent them out with whip.

The insurance is fully comprehensive with no deposit, so even if you scrtch the car you should not have hard feelings.

I think it plays a role as car sharing is not for everyone. Cars will still be owned privately.

Brockley Nick said...

"Nick you are very definitive in your conclusions. Perhaps a bit of math would make you change your mind..."

As it happens and as I've mentioned once before on this site, I know the people who run Whipcar and they told me themselves that that's one of the things it facilitates. If Whipcar works at all, it will work in large part through that kind of person. Your maths is flawed - you don't need to pay £5k for a rentable car and you don't need to cover the cost of purchase in a single year.

As for the denting scenario, as I said, I know the insurance will cover it, but people get quite emotionally involved with their cars and its still quite a faff to have to get one repaired. Like I say, I could imagine falling out with my neighbours.

Anonymous said...

Why not have a car park built by the station and money raised used to provide residents with free permits to park in the CPZ?

max said...

Because you'd increase congestion by incentivising people to drive there and besides you don't need to raise any money to provide cpz permits as muh of their cost is an arbitrary surcharge imposed by the Council.

CPZ over my dead body said...

The council has conducted two surveys into a CPZ in the last few years and the anti CPZ camp firmly trounced the pro. Now have the good grace to pipe down and realise you are in the minority, and there will never be a CPZ here. £120 to park in your own street which I can do anyway now for free, madness...

max said...

This comment clearly shows how by increasing the fares to this level the Council has dramatically slashed the chances of more CPZ areas been added, and for low incomes it's entirely legitimate to oppose it now.

Someone must have decided that more cash for the Council from the existing zones is more important than more CPZ areas.

Jill W said...

No to a CPZ. The council needs to finds another way to tackle commercial vans who park in those areas - if you introduce a CPZ they will just move to another street, not give up business.

I think this 'problem' is greatly exagerated. I think people are complaining bevcause they can't park immediately outside their own homes. I am disabled and sometimes have to drive to the station from where I live in the conservation area. There seems always to be a free space on Foxberry Road, whatever time of day I go. In the evening there are plenty.

I live near Lewisham college and we also have the spaces taken up in front of our houses with college students and sometimes have to park on the side streets. Although didsabled I cope with this and don't see the need for a CPZ.

I think if you live near a station you sort of expect this (as I do living near a college) and you shouldn't think that only you have the right to park in front of your house and in your road.

My last question would be - Nick did you ask for the CPZ officer to write the column or did they come to you?

Anonymous said...

@CPZ over my dead body

You would be surprised how locals have changed their mind since the ELL and van companies started at Brockley Station. I would not be so sure that a new survey, if well targeted to people around the station, would not win hands down.

Certainly if you include communters in the survey that would probably not work. So a street by street survey is probably the most fair approach. You no not want it? Then vote againts in your street and stop imposing others what they shoudl and should not do.

To Jill W, CPZ provides disabled reserved parkings. Your argument is weak.

Anonymous said...

If you live a few metres from the station but have a car, I kind of feel that you should pay a lot of money for permit, like a thousand pounds a year, because you are using premium public space as a car park yourselves.

We've had it with the Tea Factory and we'll have it with St Judes' where these homes are not designed with car users in mind- I'm mean they're are built near a station after all! Yet there are owners who are complaining that other people are using the road.

Charlie said...

reply to anon 16 April 2011 22:25

Family live too far away to make the train financially viable. They also couldn't bring half the stuff that they do bring, as they tend to jam the car pretty full.
In other news, this is turning into an anti car thread, which I guess is fairly predictable. Doesn't keep it on thread though. People currently have the right to have a car. As long as this is true, they will want to park as close to home as possible. That's not unreasonable.

Ed CPZ said...

I'd be suprised if we were not unusual in having a zone 2 station without CPZ and I agree that attitudes will have changed since earlier surveys.

Anonymous said...

@ Grace, any comments on the tome used by "CPZ over my dead body"

foxberry said...

@anon 16.48 who accused me of being a horrible, spoilt person, let me tell you I am nothing of the sort and @Grace who said she feels sad that we shouldn't feel happy that we are lucky enough to have a house and kids and not to live in Sierra Leone (or words to that effect), I do indeed feel lucky and happy in my life for what its worth. Perhaps 'nightmare' is too strong a word, but the fact is that driving for ten minutes around the block looking for a space and having to park two streets away is quite a pain in the ass to say the least. If you have ever had young kids, you would know what a pain it is.

When you twist your ankle and can't walk for a few days do you say, "I'm really happy and lucky I've still got two legs" or do you say, "It's been awful not being able to walk for a couple of days".

When we moved here five years ago we could always somewhere to park on our street. I didn't care that it wasn't right by our house because that's the price you pay for living by a zone 2 station, but the situation has got A LOT worse since then... whether it's the ELL, the van hire, more flats, higher car ownership or more people trying to save money on their travelcards by coming to zone 2 I don't know or care... probably a mixture of all of the above.

I think there should be a new survey (there hasn't been one for about 6 years) including options of a full time CPZ and also a CPZ enforced for just one or two hours a day, which would detract commuters and the vans.

I hate the way these threads degenerate into aggressive language towards car owners, people who have children, people who live near stations yet still have the gall to own a car. In Brockley I generally encounter the nicest people, but on this blog I sometimes think everyone hates each other.

Anonymous said...

@anon 13.59 - There is an alternative solution, to transform front gardens into a a driveways and then clamp commuters who park in front. Happy to pay the moeny for the transformation if the Council prefers this solution. It can turn out to be lucrative. By the way houses next to station are already more expensive, exactly because they are next to a station.

foxberry said...

@anon 16.48 who accused me of being a horrible, spoilt person, let me tell you I am nothing of the sort and @Grace who said she feels sad that we shouldn't feel happy that we are lucky enough to have a house and kids and not to live in Sierra Leone (or words to that effect), I do indeed feel lucky and happy in my life for what its worth. Perhaps 'nightmare' is too strong a word, but the fact is that driving for ten minutes around the block looking for a space and having to park two streets away is quite a pain in the ass to say the least. If you have ever had young kids, you would know what a pain it is.

When you twist your ankle and can't walk for a few days do you say, "I'm really happy and lucky I've still got two legs" or do you say, "It's been awful not being able to walk for a couple of days".

When we moved here five years ago we could always somewhere to park on our street. I didn't care that it wasn't right by our house because that's the price you pay for living by a zone 2 station, but the situation has got A LOT worse since then... whether it's the ELL, the van hire, more flats, higher car ownership or more people trying to save money on their travelcards by coming to zone 2 I don't know or care... probably a mixture of all of the above.

I think there should be a new survey (there hasn't been one for about 6 years) including options of a full time CPZ and also a CPZ enforced for just one or two hours a day, which would detract commuters and the vans.

I hate the way these threads degenerate into aggressive language towards car owners, people who have children, people who live near stations yet still have the gall to own a car. In Brockley I generally encounter the nicest people, but on this blog I sometimes think everyone hates each other.

No to concrete front gardens! said...

@Anon 17.42 17.4.11 - bad idea. Massively increases the risk of flooding because drains weren't built to cope with all the run off from front gardens as well as pavements - there was an assumption that front gardens would have soil in them which would absorb a lot of rain.

My neighbour used to drive to and from a local station. I estimate it would have taken about ten minutes to walk. Neighbour wasn't usually carrying a heavy load, didn't have to drop child off at nursery or any other excuse. Just laziness - fat as well. Can't see why people who want to do that shouldn't have to pay for the privilege. Streets full of parked cars are ugly and not as safe for pedestrians. Also there's air and noise pollution to consider, and the obesity problem. Reduce car usage, and ideally car ownership - win win. Easy enough for most people to use public transport, cycle or walk - those that can't can have exemption from the parking charges.

Jill W said...

At anon - it's not a waek argument -t here are many people who are disabled enough not to have a card but that it prvents them walking far. Also think of older people who also may have mobility issues - they don't all get disabled badges as a matter of course.

I live in Foxberry too said...

I hope, in these cash-strapped times, that the council does not take the few strident opinions here as a local request for a CPZ, and waste money conducting a survey.

As someone else suggested, spend the money on doing something about the commercial vechiles parking illegaly and obstructively over the roads.

Brockley Nick said...

@Jill W - no I didn't ask them to write this, although I have spent the last couple of years nagging the Council to contribute some articles, because I think people appreciate them and they are an opportunity to discuss sometimes contentious and complex issues in some detail.

Ed CPZ said...

Did East Dulwich station get CPZ in the end? They had this discussion a few years back. Does anyone know of another zone 2 station that has not had to to introduce CPZ?

JoCarFreeHousing$FlatsByTheStation said...

I don't know

No to CPZ! said...

CPZ's are just money making exercises pure and simple. Having lived in one of them for years I can say first hand they are a nightmare.

I got stuck abroad during the ash cloud last year, and my residents permit expired whilst I was away. I came back to find that I'd been ticketed every day for it being out of date adding up to £800. Bearing in mind I'd lived there for 8 years and had always paid on time the lack of leniency was staggering. The 'parking shops' where you have to get the permits and visitors passes are often several miles away, for instance you'd probably have to go to Lewisham to get passes for a plumbers or friends to come round, also you can't even stock up on them that much as they worry about creating a black market in passes.

As they give residents permits to anyone resident there's still no guarantee of parking near your house particularly if there has been a lot of conversions into flats.

The van hire companies will just get their local mates to say it's their van anyway thus getting round the system.

Also massive displacement happens as people just move to the streets just outside the area anyway annoying a new set of residents.

One of the best things about moving here was not having to worry about a bloody CPZ the whole time, and I live on Foxberry Rd, at the so called heart of the problem, believe me it isn't that bad.

If they must do something why not make Coulgate Street maximum waiting time of an hour like on Brockley Rd. It seems to work there fine.

Headhunter said...

I'm a bit torn on the old CPZ thing. I haven't got a car so no vested interest in a parking space outside my home but I can see that a CPZ would help raise valuable income and hopefully save me council tax.

On the other hand I do occasionally have visitors who drive, although they usually come at the weekend. Do CPZs operate through the weekend too? Also I would be concerned that a CPZ would encourage people to concrete their front gardens. Although this is only allowed with planning permission, Lewisham planning never actually follows up on flagrant breaking of planning regs anyway, so I'm sure once a CPZ came in most of the leafy front gardens across the conservation area would be concreted in no time.

So on balance I would prefer no CPZ....

Headhunter said...

...Hmm and that's another thing. What if I needed an emergency plumber or electrician to come round to fix something like a leak in the bathroom causing a flood etc, not only do I have to deal with the problem itself but I have to fanny about getting some kind of parking permit for the plumber or electrician as well....

No, definitely no CPZ for me. I couldn't care less about not being able to park outside my house and the problem with vans and commuter cars in the area concerns me less than the potential destruction of front gardens and the hassle of getting permits for visitors....

popol said...

Thank you to "No to CPZ" and Headhunter who have given logical and reasoned response to the issue of a CPZ.

I think there is an issue with vans, & commuter parking but CPZ is not the answer for Brockley.

Ed CPZ said...

I wonder how the millions of people currently living within CPZs cope? Poor things! Everyone I know who lives in one tells me there is a net benefit (which accords with my experience in Lambeth) and Brighton.

You are usually able to buy a number of daily visitor passes within an annual allocation per property.

Has anyone yet found another zone 2 station without CPZ? Hmmm, no?

I think some of you must just be afraid of change but this area is and will continue to change; get on board and join the future.

BX is currently a free car park, even the pavements.

JoCarFreeHousing4FlatsByTheStation said...

Brockley is different Ed

Balls to CPZ's said...

@Ed CPZ

The reason why no one has found a zone 2 station without a CPZ is that no one is mental enough to spend the time researching it to argue with you.

Out of 150 zone 2 stations believe me not all of them have CPZ's. Indeed, here's one to start the list, my girlfriend lives near Rectory Road, no CPZ there!

Anonymous said...

I'm glad someone has raised the point about the obsessive nature of some regarding this issue. Fancy naming yourself after a council policy.

signed
PeteWheelieBen

Think CPZ said...

I would like to thank the owner of the AUDI Q7 that almost every day is parking on the newly built wider pavements.

You make so clearly the point of why Brockley needs a CPZ!! Perhaps if we wera all following rules it would be redundant. However Brockley, like everywhere else, is full of smart aces such as commuters, van companies and shop keepers that think they own the public realm.

Only persistent ticketing make them change their mind, and this is financed via CPZ.

We ask the Council to do the right thing for Brockley.

Anonymous said...

Hold on; Headhunter of all people is anti-CPZ?! Has the sudden site of Johns Reid and Prescott sharing a platform with David Cameron caused people to think logically rather than toeing lines!

I predict an immediate expulsion from the Mung Bean Elite! Brockley Nick and Patrick1971 will NOT be amused!

Parking enforcement said...

"You make so clearly the point of why Brockley [needs proper parking enforcement]."

Ed CPZ said...

1/150[?] is a start... I believe Lambeth (which has much in common with Lewisham) and has none. I was suprised no-one has compiled a full online map; I'll check Southwark and Greenwich when I can be bothered.

Ed CPZ said...

Like it or not CPZ does solve the lack of enforcement problem. It's Mad Max's car park or a fair, safe and presentable (not sanitised or 'munged up') local enviroment.

Any news from the BX public realm scheme yet?

Ed CPZ CPZ CPZ said...

@Pete - I'm no expert on the hyperglobalmeganet but I thought the more associations on this site with that acronym the better for anyone else looking into this...

Anonymous said...

We know what the "CPZ" stands for but the E&D seems to be as if subsconscious yearning for East Dulwich.

CPZ is not the solution for Brockley.

Yes to CPZ - Thank you said...

@Parking enforcement - who is going to pay for the enforcement officers??? CPZ will allow for the investment i guess, with nice and well demarked yellow lines and white parking spaces. Parking attendants will make a fortune in Brockley.

BTW I think the new traffic light without bumps will soon make its first victim. Drivers are learning that it does not turn red unless someone press the botton, and in absence of bumbs, they speed up from far away.

I would not want to cross at the zebra crossing next to the bridge at night when cars arrive full speed from Brockley Road; anyone know what are th odds offered a the betting shop?

Parking enforcement said...

The first thing that is needed is an independent assessment of the parking around both sides of the station. To ascertain the nature of the parking.

People are complaining about a range of issues, parking on pavements, not being to park at midnight, too many vans, that they don't want others to use their cars to park near a station.

Some issues are stronger than others.

When all these issues including the impact on wider Brockley then we should consider a cpz. Not before.

Anonymous said...

@enforcement - what a waste of time an money. The issues are visible to everyone. The alternatives is to continue with the current situation that will certainly become worse when Jude and the new building on BX and harefield mews are completed. More residents will want to park their cars near home and the station. Unless you believe at the fairy tale that then new resident will not buy cars because they live next to the station.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know the owner of the black Audi number plate S3VLA.

Please tell them it would be nice if he stops parking on the pavement

Ed CPZ said...

Isn't the A7 in an as yet unmarked bay?

Parking enforcement said...

I think it's important not to jump to conclusions. The issues as I've summarised from other posts in this thread are not necessarily visible. One person is just anti car, well other people's cars. I'm not sure that is sufficient justication for a cpz, something that is likely change the enjoyment many other locals experience of life in Brockley,

Anonymous said...

Ignoring the selfish "i dont see why people should drive and park in OUR streets" lobby(NB its not yours)...How naive are u people. What makes u think that CPZ will mean a parking space outside your hse. I live in a nearby cpz and i can assure you - this is very far from the case. They ALWAYS reduce parking in the zone with markings and yellow lines. I often return of an evening and find icant park in my street.Only now i PAY for THAT privalege. Go to greenwich where they have a no parking zone till 11 am, never any probs there

Anonymous said...

no the A7 is on the pavement in front of the Kebab Shop

patrick1971 said...

If my friends knew I'd been called one of the "mung bean elite" they would roar with laughter; they think I'm a dangerous right-winger.

Anonymous said...

But Patrick, you believe all people should live in yurts knitted from their own pubes!

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