Blackwall toll to pay for Silvertown Tunnel?

TfL has launched a second consultation about its plans for a new river crossing or two in East London.

The key proposals include a new tunnel linking Greenwich Peninsula to Silvertown and a new ferry connection between Thamesmead and Beckton.

TfL say they are trying to fix the following problems, which were a lot like the problems that were ignored when Boris scrapped the Thames Gateway Bridge (a project that was superior to any now on the table and which, as 853 points out, may not be dead):

1. Regular long delays at the Blackwall Tunnel, particularly during peak times
2. Frequent closures of the Blackwall Tunnel and the impact of closures on the surrounding road network
3. The need to replace the Woolwich Ferry infrastructure as it nears the end of its operating life
4. The need for additional road connections to support growth

The Silvertown Tunnel would increase the volume of traffic trying to use the A102 and carve up Greenwich Peninsula. It would also be less pedestrian and cyclist friendly than a bridge. On the plus side, it would make it easy to re-route traffic in the event of a one tunnel closing and it would connect two relatively dynamic areas, rather than two moribund ones. Whereas the Gateway Bridge would have been primarily a traffic management measure, the Silvertown Tunnel is more likely to play a direct role in regeneration.

TfL has also mooted a £2 toll for Blackwall Tunnel users, to help pay for the new tunnel - something which Boris appeared to veto in a radio interview, at least until he's moved on.

If anyone can muster any enthusiasm to discuss ferry options, please feel free to post below.


Anonymous said...

I can't quite fathom the words to describe how ridiculous it is to even consider building a tunnel in this day and age.

If it can't be a bridge, it should be scrapped.

Anonymous said...

The impact of recent articles is interesting. A+E to be scrapped at Lewisham, people offered Guys as alternative - oh hold on a second, trains aren't stopping at London Bridge due to Crossrail works. That's ok, if you drive you can head to Woolwich - oh bugger, the roads are screwed due to a new tunnel being constructed. Umm...

Fair call, some of these things are just proposals, but it could make life in SE London a little miserable if they all came through.

Anonymous said...

well hang on, a tunnel can be a better option...thats why people still build tunnels. (whether or not it's better here is something I can;t comment on)

If you need help fathoming the words do please get in touch

Deep Green said...

Less cars. Not new roads. End of debate.

Tamsin said...

To be deeply pedantic - fewer cars. Although I suppose if more of them were those tiny "smart" cars - "less car" would be appropriate to say. But totally agree with the sentiment.

Also very interesting joined up thinking from Anon at 23:08 - points to pass on to the A&E campaigners.

kolp said...

Another congestion charge? May as well have done with it and start road pricing.

Fattyfattybumbum said...

CRAZY idea. We have no alternative but to use the stupid Blackwall tunnel so this charge would be completely unfair! How else does Boris expect us to cross the river, by cable car?

Kensington & Chelsea have had their congestion charge extension scrapped, we must make sure this never sees the light of day.

Pete said...

You could use the Rotherhithe tunnel but this is a bit annoying. Luckily I only use the tunnel about 10 times a year.

Tamsin said...

From Nick's post, although I have not followed the link, Boris is NOT in favour of charging Blackwall to pay for Silvertown.

The link is needed from South to North Circulars (nice big dual carriageway roads) - so new ferries with slightly larger capacity and having two of them running all the time rather than occasionally as at present.

And bring it back as a tourist attraction - just speaking to someone who's lived in London all her life and they used to go out for a day trip with a picnic and stay on it all day. She now bitterly complains that they make you disembark.

discoaddict said...

sod the cars, you make more roads, more cars come. They should know that by know. A pedestrian and cycle bridge linking surrey quays to canary wharf is what I'd like to see. Get people out of cars, on bikes saving money for themselves and passing on the benefits to savings in the nhs because of healthier lifestyle.

Fattyfattybumbum said...

@ discoaddict - that will be really useful when I am on my way to Stansted.

Anonymous said...

I don't think charging £2 at Blackwall is all that unfair or ridiculous. If you want a new crossing then the money has to come from somewhere. It's either going to be via taxation, the private sector (who will probably claw the money back through tolls anyway) or this. If I catch the train to London Bridge I don't expect a free ride because I bought my own shoes.

Tamsin said...

Take the train to Stansted.

Can you take bikes on the Cable Car?

A speaker missed a meeting we had one evening last spring - he was coming by bike and the Greenwich Foot Tunnel was unexpectedly closed - and the DLR were (un-joined up thinking, here) insistent that he could not take his bike on the train even for one stop.

Anonymous said...

For the love of god build a property bridge in East London. The economic benefits would surely eclipse the short term costs.

Anonymous said...

The Gateway Bridge was a dishonest idea - Boris was right to scrap it.

Lou Baker said...

"Build roads, cars will come" is Green Party mantra - it's a flawed arguement and one which has left London in the state it is.

The fact is we need more road capacity. It is greener to build a new road than not. If you're going to have traffic - and in a city you are - then it is better for that traffic to be moving. Yes it is best for the environment if no one drives. But that is cloudcukooland fantasy stuff. Next best for the environment is motorists who can get from A to B without delay. Worst of all for the environment is the inevitable traffic jams that come from under investing in roads.

What should happen is this:
1) New - toll - tunnel alongside the existing Blackwall Tunnels separating A12/A13 traffic out.
2) Bridge or other crossing at Silvertown linking north and south circ - toll.
3) Shut down then rebuild the Rotherhithe tunnel as a dual carriageway.
4) New motorway standrard road and rail crossing east of Dartford to link in with Boris Island super Airport
5) Upgrade South Circular and remaining bits of North Circular to motorway standard.
6) New north/south and east/west toll motorways under London.
7) Remove all pedestrian traffic lights and most other traffic lights. Impose a blanket 20mph limit throughout London - violation punishable by death.
8) Smart parking systems to be introduced throughout the capital.
9) Pedestrianise Oxford St and most of the West End
10) New cycle routes to be built alongside existing railway alignments.

Traffic problems solved.

Expensive? Yes. But fixes London's issues for generations.

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