Major development proposed for Brockley Cross
Developers MacDonald Egan are currently consulting residents over a major new scheme, proposed on the site of Martin's Yard, off Drakefell Road, adjacent to Brockley Cross. The site straddles the Victoria-bound railway line.
The plan proposes a mix of residential and commercial space and, in their letter to local people, they say that their plan will bring "signature design and development to Brockley," which will "act as a catalyst for regeneration for the neighbourhood, building on its existing strengths."
MacDonald Egan specialise in "challenging sites" and has a penchant for south east London - having created the new apartments at 34-39 Deptford High Street, The Glasshouse in New Cross and the White Building in London Bridge. It is the main sponsor of the Deptford X arts festival.
In contrast to some of the developers who have been sniffing around Brockley of late, it has a decent track record and (in our view) an eye for good design. It also has scale (a pipeline of 30 projects currently underway), which hopefully means it will have the resources to deliver on their ideas.
The developers have already met with the Telegraph Hill Society and the Brockley Cross Action Group and we would be interested to hear the views of readers from either of those groups, who attended the sessions. The plans are going on display to the public on Wednesday evening, 23rd April, from 4 - 8pm at The Telegraph Hill Centre, Kitto Road (next to St Catherines Church).
We hope to bring you more on the story very shortly.
Thanks to Anna for the story.
69 comments:
Sounds like good news to me. Brockley Cross is in need of some regeneration/development. I look forward to reading about it in more detail.
Nick - I clicked on the Martins Yard link and the although the arrow points to Drakefell Road it's way off in terms of where the yard is. Don't know if you can change it or not.
I'm surprised that any company is looking to develop residential property at the moment, but good on 'em. Look forward to seeing the plans
Where exactly is St Martins Yard then? Good news though. Just go to show all those doom-goers out there that brockleys regeneration is still on track!
..remmeber this, its a permanent change, not a cyclical response to market conditions.
does it have two entrances? google came back with 82A Endwell Rd
I will try and tighten up on the arrow issue later.
@HH - any development like this is likely to take a couple of years to complete, by which time the market will look quite different. But it's a good point and worth remembering when people say that a property crash is irrelevant if you're planning to stay put - price expectations affect people's ability to invest in Brockley, so it's not merely a middle class parlour game to talk about house prices.
Suggest someone posts about Brockley on londonpropertygossip.com - just the sort of story this new site should be covering.
This doesn't surprise me. The 'Westside' was always a prime location for redevelopment, because it hasn't yet seen its potential realised as a residential or commercial space.
Is this the same as the Brockley Cross Business Centre/retail park?
Pls can the londonpropertygossip spammers sod off. it's so obvious that and it's rather tragic.
McDonald Egan; currently building a huge tower block at the Old Seager Distillery. I'm not sure I would agree that they have an eye for good design.
This can only be good news, let's hope the knock-on effects are improvements to the Brockley Cross area in general.
Come on Brockley!!!
From what I've heard the developers have been fairly open to suggestions from BXAG, which is a good sign.
@dd - seager was sold to galliard (who are naff). And there was nothing wrong with the design unless you're pathologically opposed to anything tall(ish).
See here for a rubish computer generated image..
http://www.medhosted.co.uk/index.php/main/dev/current/22/0
So long as it dosn't turn into some kind of gated enclave, apparently the Deptford developments are a bit like that. The bankers just jump on the DLR and don't actually venture outside? Be interesting to see some better plans and I guess it's up to the council and anoying bods like us to influence how the 'commercial space' is allocated?
For some reason it looks to me a bit like it's been designed for small media or design companies.
I am not pathologically opposed to anything tall, but in this location I believe it is totally out of place.
http://www.medhosted.co.uk/index.php/main/dev/completed/9/0
I think the plans look quite nice. I guess it sits behind the brockley cross business centre? I notice that that building has scaffolding up, i hope its not going to be knocked down.
I dont think this development was part of the original 'masterplan' lewisham had in mind. This is a good sign that private companies are regenerating the area on sites outside of the masterplan sites.
i think it IS the brockley x business centre isn't it?
There's a (very little) more on the architect's site at http://www.dugganmorrisarchitects.com/ . It's a hideous flash site, so no direct linking - project A053, I think.
Sounds OK to me, more room for small businesses, and the scaffolding company's lorries are a pain in the fundament (to speak like a true lawyer should, I understand).
Martins Yard
SE4 2PD
http://tinyurl.com/3ozu3z
click on birdseye view
The long shed is the Brockley tBusiness Centre.
Presumably it is the scafolding yard next to it.
I think the MDE stuff looks good myself.
The archictects site states the site is currently a scaffold yard and the scheme is valued at £4.5m.
"The focus of the scheme is to deliver a unique working environment for small scale, local businesses."
"The peoposed form of the buildings has been develooped in response to the local and site conditions, whereby the massing takes advantage of significant drops in site level."
"Crucial to the scheme success lies in the relationship between the commercial activity at ground and first levels, and proposed apartments which are to crown the development. This combination of uses requires careful handling to ensure adequate amenity space, parking and access, security and above all identity."
Click here for the site plan (business centre on left of bottom pic of three) and here for a map/picture.
Yes, on the subject of how crap Galliard homes are, thank god it's not them, as they've ripped down a few beautiful buildings in Greenwich recently. Galliard's most recent victim has been the unique old warehouses on Greenwich High Road - no longer with us. Evil.
Oh, and yes, londonpropertygossip spammers please contribute or politely go away before I have to lay down the moderating law!
Is everyone's interest in this to do with Brockley house prices or a generous hope that Brockley will become a nicer place to live for people who don't post on here?
I'm just nosy Hugh.
My interest in it is that I hope it will make getting off the train in the evening or taking a walk around the area over the weekend a more pleasant experience. Also, as it has commercial units I hope they will provide some useful services.
both
both
I'd be lying if I said I didn't hope it would boost my house price but I do intend to live here for a few years yet so would like some more poncy cafes/bars/olive emporiums and generally a more pleasent or at least varied environment.
actually a bit gutted that Nicks lap dancing April Fool was not going ahead!
God some appaling grammer in that last post - that's a comprehensive education for you.
I bet you are gutted Monkeyboy, following the collapse of Metronet, weren't you hoping to get a job there? I seem to remember you even had that "back, sack and crack" in the diary....
On a side thread - just curious - but I take it the flaming troll posts of Friday by Zeus et al were taken off line by Nick / Jon / Kate due to something like "incentive to violence" etc?
When postings are deleted, it would be nice to know why.
HH, no need. Following the heroic stand of Bob Crow and his happy Marxists we've secured TfL travel perks and gold plated pension rights. But we digress....
Any readers on here moving into the T-Factory? I want some photos of the interior.
I'm upset - I misread the article and got all excited when I thought a McDonalds was coming to Brockley :(
I am MB but pics I took are from Jan and just show a building site...
Bea, yes - i was abit surprised when they all got deleted. It would be nice to know why as it was a fun (even not politicially correct) debate.
I mean, who would really want to put rat poision down for a cat? (or is that post still there..)
GOSH.
Why doesn't it work? You'd be surprised. My neighbour accused me of doing just that, when she saw me pouring something into my garden. Crazy old witch.
Why? Where do you live? I'll send my army of cats around to poo in ya garden, that'll teach you.
Teach me for what? I didn't do anything. It was water from my flooded cellar. Read the posts properly you dork.
I know, i'm just playing with you!
like a cat and a ball of string...
I do hope I don't need to put the moderator's hat on again ;)
Yes, Bea, Friday's 'banter' got out of hand, hence it got zapped. I did at least leave the entertaining first rant by Zeus, and a little bit of the class-baiting chat that came after it!
good news for Brockley again! Hoorah!
It does sound positive. However I would like the money invested in this project to directly benefit locals. It would cool, if McDonald Egan, recruited local workers to help construct the development. Just randomly...how about they advertise in SE4 magazine for painters, decoraters, plumbers etc perhaps even make a donation for some skills training via Lewisham college to train up some unemployed people, particularly younger ones to do this work.
The graffiti that daubed on The tea factory, front as well as back shows a lack of respect and affection for the building, born out of their being no connection with it. It's my thought, if that some of those people involved in the graffiti or maybe people they know were involved in the construction of project in some meaningful way this is less likely to have occured.
I feel a connection with the tea factory because I believe I'll be visiting the gallery. There is an assumption, rightly or wrongly that there is something in for me. What about, the younger, or those on very low incomes in our community? Do they feel they have any connection to this building that is going to dominate the centre of Brockley?
Amanda (I can't sign in)
I think that sounds like an excuse to 'explain away' petty vandalism.
Weve all done it in some way as a kid. Whoever did that will realise in 20 yrs time that what they did was a stupid act.
In any area thats in transition you will get things like this. We just need to pray that the developers have enough experience to have factored this in thier building costs.
Ho hum. My experience of employing local tradesmen has been that they overcharge and take a long time. Going one better than this and employing the local yoof in the hope that they form a bond with the building they work on and so would loathe to see it vandalised or graffitied.
Well, that sounds mighty optimistic and what I would call a high risk strategy.
Alternatively....use the same ultrasonic cat scaring technology to fry the eardrums of the lost boys who daub their moniker on anything new being built. Leaving the building work to professionals.
Which approach do you think would appeal to a developer?
if you want to buy one.
http://www.cctvdirect.co.uk/The+MOSQUITO.htm
Oh my god! I thought you were kidding! I wonder if it works!
It does - it's been all over the news. Works on a frequency that adults mature ears can't hear. It doesn't hurt kids (Mmm) - but it's not very pleasant (?)- apparently.
I'll take 4
I agree APP&P, what Amanda describes is more or less what we have discussed previously.
Kids feel no connection with their surroundings so feel the need to vandalise and graffiti everything blah, blah, blah. Poor little mites, it's all society's fault that they have to spray paint the side of someone else's home...
If you ask me it's about time they, and their parents for that matter, took responsibility for their actions.
I do see the need for facilities for such kids though and it would be nice for developers of places like this to be obliged to provide some kind of community space but I'm not entirely convinced that would help
Re those mosquito deterrent things, I can hear those mosquito things and I ain't in my teens so they obviously don't only target the itinerant yoof. Also I would have concern for babies being wheeled past in pushchairs, wouldn't be very pleasant for them.
I've got a couple of high pitch rat deterrent things which are supposed to stop rats coming into the house - I've got them plugged in by the back door. Hopefully it'll also deter next door's screeching cat as well
Why don't the council help kids connect with their environment? They should start a scheme where they give out digital cameras to the youths to allow them to express themselves via the form of photography, whilst taking images of decay and litter throughout the borough, er hang on a sec...
Yeah. Digital cameras for the poor mites. That'd do it - they'd be overcome and their creative juices would flow and they wouldn't feel like tagging any more... Never again... Not like they wouldn't just flog the cameras on ebay or anything...
That wouldn't even cross their mind. They'd be too busy working out their composition, creating images that speak to us about the environment and commenting on what life is really like for todays disaffected youth....
....and happy slapping with them.
Andy, you've approached what I've written in a direction, I don't agree with. It's not an attempt to "explain away" graffiti, if anything it's a speculation on how to address the drivers behind graffiti. Graffiti on someone's home is not acceptable it is anti social to me and people that share my values. However to those individuals who did it, the assumption being that they're kids;"youth", it's highly social. The scale of what was done shows that the kid wanted to make a mark, it wasn't some random drawing, it was a tag, a name writ large for those cognisant with these things to go be awestruck. The kid wanted 'props' respect.
I am proffering another approach; how can we channel that desire to make a mark, gain social respect in a more sociable way? In effect how can we harness perhaps amend this kids values? Randomly I came up with the above.
Anon 00.13, I would draw your attention to
McDonald Egan sponsorship
Anon 9.40 do you really think like that about all the kids around here ?
Amanda
There seems a tendancy to deal with badly behaved yoof by indulging them with gifts and diversions.
For all these carrot givers, there are also those who prefer the stick.
It is not nice to suffer the consequences of someone elses poor parenting.
Amanda - do I think like what? I don't get your question.
Carrot AND stick. A resourced training scheme is hardly indulging with gifts.
Andy Pandy P+P, I just clicked on Nick's link about notable west side stuff and had a quick browse of the comments - in October you stated that a reliable source had told you that a well known coffee chain had been persuaded to open up on Mantle road - what happened with this - is it still happening??
Those places are usually in the bigger shopping and entertainment areas with a large number of potential customers bimbling around.
I would not have thought Mantle Road would really cut the demographic mustard. Lordship Lane it certainly ain't.
Erm.. yeah, that hasn't happened yet and I havn't heard any more about it. If it does it wil most likely happen to the site of the derelict pub (the maypole). It looks like I will be buying a coffee for someone.....
...i'll throw in a kitten
how about we find a yucky piece of wall somewhere (out of sight) where they can go and mark their territory ? (kids, not cats).
...where do you live head hunter? :o)
Looks like in Greenwich somebody came up with an interesting new initiative to combat graffiti.
nope it's definitely not Lordship Lane - in a couple of years it'll be much nicer!
Don't forget to look at the plans for this in the Telegraph Hill Centre, 4 to 8pm today.
I'm impressed,
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