My Street Makeover

Getting the basics right with our streets is the single most important thing that we (residents, businesses and the Council) can do to regenerate our area:

  • Collecting litter (and not dropping it in the first place)
  • Reducing refuse bins through more effective waste management (or hiding them)
  • Choosing good quality street furniture (benches, railings, bins, etc) and then looking after them
  • Reducing unnecessary clutter (especially pointless signs)
  • Putting some effort in to shop fronts (and then supporting the shops that do)
  • Planting flowers (and maintaining them)
  • Fixing the pavements and towing people who park their cars in the middle of our streets so they can get their hair cut.

Stuff like that. The kind of stuff people do to shift their houses on property programmes, because they are relatively cheap and very effective.

Brockley Central's political manifesto would put these basic things at its heart. Look after stuff like that and people begin to respect their area more, enjoy their area more and invest in the area more.

So we're delighted to hear from Cllr Sue Luxton that Lewisham Council will be organising a "My Street Makeover" on Coulgate Street soon. This will involve:

  • Painting the railings and lamp posts
  • Repainting road markings
  • New road signs (hopefully replacement ones rather than more road signs)
  • Gully cleaning
  • Graffiti removal
  • Weed removal
  • Litter clearance

There will also be a clean up for all to get involved in around the Station - including both Mantle Road and Coulgate Street. Some good joined-up thinking would also involve enforcing the regulations on shop fronts, to make Speedicars change their horrible signage in time for the makeover day.

My Street Makeovers are a borough-wide initiative, launched in 2006. We hope they also come to Brockley Road and Lewisham Way very soon.

97 comments:

Kirsty said...

Yes Lewisham Way is crying out for a clean up operation. I'm willing to help. Well done Sue Luxton!

Brockley Nick said...

I'm sure sue would want me to make clear that this is an initiative by council officers. But thanks to sue for letting me know about it!

Pete said...

Lewisham way is such a long street that it would cost quite a lot of money to put right I would think.

One side is actually quite nice, especially where the flower beds are. The other side is scruffy (particularly the sea container..!)

Anonymous said...

We need to put pressure on the owner of the blue building on the corner of Endwell and Mantle to tidy it up, it is an absolute disgrace.

Bea said...

Fantastic initiative - well done to the Council. Let's hope they do Brockley Cross next which is in desperate need of some love and attention.

On a side note... someone mentioned to me that four new trees have been planted in front of the post office sorting office - great news! But have no railings protecting them. Hope they survive!

Haven’t seen them yet but will keep an eye out for them when I get home this evening.

Tressillian James said...

Bea - I'm more concerned about them getting watered - the 3 went up in Tressillian also. I've been out with watering can to the tree thats nearest to me. It would be a shame if we lost them this summer.

On a side point I noticed that several councils in London replace street lighting with area-sympathetic lighting. On the roads behind Waterloo for example, the ordinary Victorian terrace residental streets have Victorian lamposts. It looks great and if Lambeth and Southwark can do it, I wonder how we get Lewisham to? There was mention over overhaul to the street lighting system a few weeks back...

APP&P Troll said...

James, if you are talking about the fancy looking old fashioned lamposts, then they can cost quite alot of money, much more than the normal ones. You also generally need to have more of them, as they are not as high as the new ones, and theres the vandalisim aspect to consider as a result.

My partner works for an Embassy, they were considering doing just that outside. Privately of course, not government funded.

APP&P Troll said...

I'm happy to volunteer on tidying up both streets.

Anonymous said...

Brockley Central's mission to big up the neighbourhood in the eyes of London is heroic in its hopelessness. Why can't we all accept that there are some nice Victorian houses here but the place will never be Greenwich?

The issue that won't go away is the high concentration of low-income households in this part of London. People just won't move in large numbers to be nearer that.

JPM said...

The trouble with people posting 'Anonymous' is that you're never quite certain whether their negative assertions are the views of the one or the few.

I'd certainly like a campaign for Victorian-style lighting in my road.

The fact that those types of lights are not tall makes them suitable for roads with trees. Those that are here are so high that the (yellow dank)light from them is negligible to say the least.

And the 'issue that won't go away' is not just the high concentration of low-income households (and the way they are mismanaged by the Housing Associations) but the anonymous poster(s) who won't give (new) Brockley a chance.

SE4, Big it up.

Kirsty said...

Yeah sod off you negative loser! 'People won't move here in numbers' - what, so the area is immune to regeneration...ever? 15 years ago some parts of greenwich were depford (guildford grove for example) - it was a dodgy skanky road. how things change. hows things chance. the average home is now worth a cool million on that street. attitudes like yours aren't welcome here - sod off back to blackheath!

Anonymous said...

Greenwich is a big borough and covers a multitude of sins.

Even the nice bits have to put up with the tourist hordes.

Brockley has its low income households. But that is a good thing. It keeps the area grounded and real.

Brockley is a big mix and is much more interesting because of that. It is also changing, I hope prosperity does not bring narrowmindedness. We have enough of that.

I think other areas should have blogs or forums. I reckon there is a bit of envy around.

APP&P Troll said...

JPM, I would welcome a campaign to put in victorian street lights for Coulgate St to generate a focal point for Brockley. I would also like to see coulgate street being cobbled, but that will take 1-2 million to install.

what does anyone else think?

Anonymous said...

Nice being called a loser and told to sod off. Rather proves the point I was making. People don't want to live in an area where expressing an opinion elicits abuse. Hope you're making the rent.

Anonymous said...

Well you were very rude insulting everyone here.

Brockley Nick said...

@Anon - your point of view is welcome here. However, I do want to challenge you on a couple of things.

Firstly, as someone born and bred in Greenwich, I am well aware that Brockley is not Greenwich - for both good and bad. I just want Brockley to fulfil its own potential.

Secondly, I think you misunderstand the area. The change you say will never happen, already has. Every night, people spill off the trains in St John's, Brockley and Crofton Park in their thousands. People with money to spend, but relatively few places to spend it locally. When I lived in Charlton, only a handful of people would get off any train stopping at the station. At Brockley, half the train empties at almost any time of night. Brockley has a high number of relatively poor households. So does Greenwich. So does Islington. Rich and poor can co-exist happily. All the most interesting places in London have that mix.

My own aspirations for the area are, I think relatively modest. A better-kept high street, with a few more decent restaurants and bars. Some more shops where I can buy the things I want to buy without having to go to East Dulwich. A regenerated Brockley Cross (change the road layout, put housing on the timber yard). A free cash machine so I can get money out to spend locally, etc. None of that is unrealistic. Some of it has already happened in the year that this blog has been running.

What's hopeless about any of that?

waltz4aidan said...

@ anonymous. "The issue that won't go away is the high concentration of low-income households in this part of London. People just won't move in large numbers to be nearer that."

23 May 2008 22:39

Don't pay any attention to the ridiculous overzealous defence of regeneration hope from Kirsty.

It's funny how the lowest common denominator in that post was money...i'd hope this is about trying to make it a nice place to live...for everyone...not just the toffs who want to make their investment worth a few more pounds.

Anonymous said...

It's not about aspiring to make Brockley into something that it is not. (The New Greenwich, The New East Dulwich etc,). But realising the full potential of this area. Brockley is unique. It has been said so many times by the people that live here, how lovely it is. I LOVE the place. It's green, it has beautiful houses, yet it's not pretentious.

But we can all see certain improvements need to be made. You can see how tortuous the discussions get we want a larger range of shops and a more salubrious streetscape but not at any price, social exclusion and snotty attitudes.

To refer to such civic mindedness as "heroically hopeless" is to miss the point and to be negative,cynical and display an attitude that we can all do without in any aspect of life. Negativity breeds negativity and whilst you shouldn't have been insulted for expressing your view, the view itself did need tackling.

APP&P Troll said...

The economy is based on money, why is it wrong to say that that is important? How do you buy nice things for an area? Oh, thats right, you spend money.

Brockley has changed alot since the first time I came here over 5 yrs ago. I think there wasn't even TM2 cafe back then.

The important thing about an area in regeneration is that you need to have both government and private money to invest. We have the government money (ELL) and we have a good deal of private money too around brockley cross. Coupled with an active community who wants to change things for the better, then the chances are things will improve.

The only sadly lacking aspect is the involvement of the local council which it seems at best abit placid.

APP&P Troll said...

I normally get insulted for my views on here.

The interesting thing is that rarely do people actually construct an arguement against what i say, but resort to attacking me personally (calling me an idiot, or moron for example).

Its a shame, theres a word to describe people like that. It's called being ignorant.

Brockley Nick said...

@waltz4aidan - I don't really understand your point. It was anon that brought money in to it:

"The issue that won't go away is the high concentration of low-income households in this part of London. People just won't move in large numbers to be nearer that."

Kirsty's response was both accurate and pertinent to anon's point. Areas change. Plenty of people are happy to live side by side with people who are different to them. People who don't like doing that live in the country and drive to work.

Hugh said...

Morning all. Amusing thread, though I must say Kirsty sounds the sort of red-faced fish wife one would prefer to avoid when collecting one's wet skinny latte from TM2 before popping into the city for the day's first videocon.

Kirsty said...

yes thanks nick, as you pointed out, it wasn't me who brought money into it - it was anon. I don't care about house prices particularly - I just want what nick wants and what I am sure we'll soon see - nice cafes, bars, restaurants shops. in the next five years they'll be here. I for one am looking forward to that era - and I love the fact that brockley isn't full of people who don't want to mix. low income, high income - i don't care but the important point is that people in brockley have money to spend but nowhere to really spend it in brockers. I want to be able to spend as much time here as poss - not always venturing off into central or dulwich etc. There are loads of young professionals moving in to the area - me, my neighbours upstairs - we're all under 26. i never cared about anywhere i lived before now. I love it here and am willing to help support the local community wherever I can. but app&p troll is right - the council are too complacent and need to be more proactive at kickstarting regeneration. now is the perfect time for them to start encouraging good businesses into the area.

Anonymous said...

"now is the perfect time for them to start encouraging good businesses into the area"

yeah um about the council maybe it's a blessing they're not too involved, look at the Tea Factory Gallery fiasco.

I get the feeling that developers, businesses start rubbing their hands together when they know they'll be dealing with the council.

No offense to the staff themselves, but the structure.

JPM said...

app&p just saw your post. Great idea for Coulgate Street - there is no reason why we shouldn't have a go.

There is a lot of funding for these kind of schemes, and we could also take a closer look at some of the Section 106 Agreements. (It looks like a big development may come on the west side of the station, plus, eventually, at Brockley Cross itself.)

The council will also have something set aside for a 'heritage scheme' besides its usual expenditure. [It would be nice to hear from our ward member on this.]

As far as cobbles go, in my home city (Liverpool) they were all nicked. (I may be able to secure a job lot but don't tell the busies.)
Certainly we should talk more if you want to do it.

Got to go... there's knock at the door.

JPM said...

Forget to add a rebuffal to that 'toff' post.

People who hope for an increase in their (property) 'investment' are far from 'toffs' - and are cannot be defined by class. (The council changed all that when it started selling its portfolio - and at a huge reduction.)

Neither do the majority of those in Brockley fortunate enough to fair that bit better financially than some of their neighbours deserve such a negative moniker.

Brockley, with its fusion of nationalities and class and income streams (or not)rather breaks the toff mold. Long may it remain so.

Down with toffism and all other isms. [Except naffism that is. As in Naffof!]

Anonymous said...

So long as we can avoid too many personal injury lawyers and estate agents, that's fine.

JPM said...

Is that the 'Anonymous' who is the negative anonymous, or the one who is not very positive, or the other one who blames all the toffs, or the chap (or chapette for we never know) 'what' blames all incomers and similar persons who are the product of a varied gene pool?

Anonymous said...

I am also a young professional who has only just moved into the area. Whilst I would not deny that I keep an eye on property prices and what is happening in the market. After all, you never know what may happen and having bought at the peak of the recent property bubble, would you blame me for not doing so? That said, I do not come onto this blog in the vain hope of increasing the value of my flat. I believe that the people who contribute to this blog do so for broadly the same reasons. They all want to see this area become an even nicer place to live. It highlights a sense of community. It allows people like me to have some sort of idea of what is going on in the area and how I can get involved. I cannot praise Nick, Jon and now Kate enough as I imagine that this blog requires a lot of time and effort that is perhaps taken for granted on occasions.

I bought here because I love the great looking victorian houses, the long treelined streets, the relaxed atmosphere, all within a 10min train journey to town! These are very rare things in London, or should I say affordable?? But unfortunately I do not spend all my time walking along tresillian or manor avenue. On most days I walk the same stretch, with the occasional stop off at the lower end of the "high st" and one of our two great delis if I fancy a bit of stinky cheese or ridiculously expensive tomatoes. And on my way, I cannot help but think of all the little things that, if improved, would make Broccers a real haven.

Although the houses are great and the trees are green, I tend to look in front of me when walking, and lets face it, it is not a pretty sight. I walked up the high st earlier today and I could not believe the amount of, well, crap. There are crisp packets and beer bottles being blown along by the wind. Luckily the pavement is so uneven and potholed that most things get caught along the way. I don't want to get rid of the litter because it affects potential buyers in the area. I want to get rid of it so I don't have to dodge chicken bones and half eaten kebabs on the way home and hence make my walk that much more enjoyable.

So getting to the real subject of this thread. I wholeheartedly support the cleaning up of Coulgate Street. However, I do believe that there are others that should benefit from the makeover before what is already one of the nicest streets in Brockley. BTW: cobbles are one of your better thoughts Andy. My suggestion would be making it a parking free zone. This, coupled, with the Brockley common (any news on this??) could make this part of Brockley something really special. Somewhere, where you could sit outside and have a coffee and watch poor innocent people miss their trains. Lets face it, a nice bar doesn't want to be next to a place like bagels or ntw or whatever the hell that drug den is called. They would would want to be next to The Broca, Dandelion Blue or Degustation. Its such a shame there are not more retail units around there. Hopefully in time, the coulgate factor will spill over into the immediate surrounding area, brockley X and the high st around la lanterna, and then further up Brockly Road.

So getting back to the subject, as I seem to have wandered a bit. I am certainly willing to offer my help in cleaning up any parts of Brockley that are deemed in need. But my vote would go for Brockley Road first.

I am also gutted I couldn't make the meeting the other day as it seems it was certainly worthwhile. I am very eager to get involved in my new community and this would have been a good starting point! Although I might have gone home to remove the social shackles of a suit and tie before showing up!!

James UBR

Anonymous said...

Wow. Sorry got a bit carried away there...

James UBR

APP&P Troll said...

Wow, I look forward to your second instalment! You brought in UBR at the peak of the housing market?

Criky, you must be loaded.

APP&P Troll said...

Yes, thats it!

Coulgate St - cobbled, victorian street lighting and car free zone (so that we can have proper tables outside broca on the street, to make it more 'continental').

This in addition to the new brockley common, some sort of gate at the end of coulgate st and it would be a very nice area that would be wonbders for the people in brocers and telegraph hill.
Sigh, we can dream...

A question said...

Are cobbles practical for wheelchair and pushchair users?

APP&P Troll said...

You dont have cobbles on the path...

They had pushchairs and prams in the victorian times, they seemed to manage ok.

Anonymous said...

The pedestrianisation of Coulgate Street was part of the masterplanning exercise done with the BXAG (though I don't think that particular plan is on their website). If your interested, it might be worth getting in touch with them, to try and kickstart the Council in taking seriously the many monthss of work done by the appointed architects and group's volunteers.

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous 00.44

Thanks. I had no idea that making Coulgate pedestrain was part of the master planning.

@ Andy

Yeah. Sorry did I not mention that?? I bought this 6 bedroom terraced house. A steal at £950.000. But it was a little too small for me and the hareme of women that I bring home every night in my chauffeur driven Rolls. So I evicted the guys next door and knocked through. Tony Blair style. I now have space for my mountain of cash. I mean I have to wipe my backside somehow right??

No offence intended Andy. But alas, the answer to your very pertinent question is no I am not loaded. But contributions are most definitely welcome...

James UBR

Anonymous said...

"Gully cleaning, Graffiti removal, Weed removal, Litter clearance."

Not looking a gift horse in the mouth but why does it need a 'special day' for the above, they should already be part of a normal routine service.

APP&P Troll said...

Anon @09.02, Yes. It is a shame.

Historically this would of been the case but nowadays alot of people do not care about where they live as they dont recognise themselvesd as even being part of a comunity. Its not the communities fault, its a decision people choose to take - temporary immigration et all.

Anonymous said...

Actually, I'm a personal injury lawyer, but neither of my housemates are personal injury lawyers. Is that "too many" personal injury lawyers? Probably.

Brockley Nick said...

My brother reluctantly used to work for a firm of personal injury lawyers. He doesn't live in Brockley though, and rarely visits...

JPM said...

Out with all lawyers! (Far too many in government too.)

Great riposte earlier on James UBR aka anonymous.

When do we start on the Coulgate Campaign? Victorian lights, cobbles (which will not cost a million or two)and free parking (I thought parking was free around there.) Let's do it people...

Hugh said...

One of the themes of this thread is the oft-praised 'mixed' nature of Brockley's neighbourhood.

Does anyone here spend much time chilling with the inhabitants of the giant council estate on Wickham Road where the V2 is meant to have landed, or any of the other locak estates?

Or are we using 'mixed' in another sense?

I assume sharing a train station with people one never speaks to doesn't count as mixing with them.

Anonymous said...

Without coming across all "Raef from the apprentice" I speak to anyone who is nice enough to speak to me; at the bus stop, at the laundrette in the newsagents, or at a table in the local assembly.

JPM said...

What's a 'laundrette'?

APP&P Troll said...

I mix with everyone on my street, in fact, its quite nice as most people still want to get a neighbourhood watch scheme going.

The street is actually quite mixed, in terms of lifestyle, so I see it as a unifying theme to bring people together.

It hasn't got much further at the mo, as the police want me to incorporate the whole of 'west brockley' for which i'm not sure im the right person for.

Tressilliana said...

'Does anyone here spend much time chilling with the inhabitants of the giant council estate on Wickham Road where the V2 is meant to have landed, or any of the other locak estates?'

More evidence that most of you here have no children. Those of us with children in local schools have shock! horror! exchanged words with people from the local estates and lived to tell the tale.

Anonymous said...

A laundrette is somewhere that you visit when you're 15, a bit drunk and want to have a go in a tumble drier. Enormous fun if a little irresponsible.

James UBR said...

@ JPM

I've gone all red. Re Coulgate I would definitely like to get involved in helping push the proposals forward. As I said, I am new here so haven't met anyone from BXAG or Broc Society yet but will be getting in touch to see where the masterplan stands and how us newcomers can do our bit. Hopefully I can do this before the "makeover" as it seems this will be a good place for those who are interested to meet and discuss.

Perhaps the Coulgate proposal is a little too much to take on as a 1st initiative but I am sure there are other issues that the BXAG or Broc Society would welcome new people to take on and "champion".

I must dash, I am meeting Bill and Warren for dinner.

Monkeyboy said...

The master plan is long dead I'm sure. Architects churn them out by the truck load for well meaning public bodies. I've commisioned a couple on behalf of London Underground that have quietly been forgotten.

Tressillian James said...

Hugh - I was at the Brockley Leaseholders' meeting last Thursday (22nd) - there was a great mix of people from the Clare and other estates, the conservation area, Vicars' Hill, the roads around the station.. of all races and backgrounds. We have come together to form an association to protect our rights, improve our community, and ensure our voice is heard by the council and its agencies.

Also - to the blogger who called us toffs - I can assure you we weren't - yet we all had the same goals.

Tamsin said...

@ app&p - 0.44 - they called their bicycles "bone-shakers" too and I wonder why....

I think cobbles where the originals ones remain are fine but to put in "new" is a bit pretentious.

APP&P Troll said...

Isn't that like complaining about putting a victorian fire place in, when the original one was taken out re. some crazy fad in the 1970's?

There's alot of benefit in people 'experiencing' that part of Brockley how it used to be, regardless if the cobbles were original or replacement.

As a focal point, maybe it will bring the community together abit more?

Anonymous said...

Andy PPP
Re West Side Neighbourhood watch scheme. Why don't you take in the roads from Revelon - St Asaph, Aspinall, Finland and Dundalk. It would seem like a manageable catchment area with nicely defined boundaries.

Anonymous said...

JPM

Parking on Coulgate generally is free. Unfortunately I think what's being proposed is a 'parking free' coulgate, not a 'free parking' coulgate - i.e. no cars at all.

No one seems to be suggesting where all the dozens/hundreds of commuters who need to park by the station would park their car. Don't want to get anyone's fairtrade hessian knickers in a twist here, but has this been thought of past a NIMBY standpoint?

APP&P Troll said...

i had a thought about this yesterday, the cobbled car-free bit could be the area outside the row of shops to the end of brockley road. The area immediately outside the old speedycars site upto the new office could be a drop off point. .r.e. a mini roundabout and/or layby.

i think the council proposed something similar in their original masterplan.

Tressilliana said...

'No one seems to be suggesting where all the dozens/hundreds of commuters who need to park by the station would park their car. Don't want to get anyone's fairtrade hessian knickers in a twist here, but has this been thought of past a NIMBY standpoint?'

I would venture to suggest that hardly any commuters need to park at Brockley Station, certainly not routinely. It takes me ten minutes to walk to Brockley, ten minutes to walk to Crofton Park, ten minutes to walk to St John's and maybe fifteen to Ladywell or Lewisham. Obviously people who are ill or have mobility issues or something heavy to carry might not be able to walk to the station, but surely the rest of us have no excuse not to walk?

Anonymous said...

I tend to think that I wouldn't go in for the parking space scrum every morning unless I have to - are there people who live significantly out of Brockley to make a car journey necessary, but find Brockley station to be their nearest relevant terminus for getting to work?

Tressilliana said...

It's hard to see why large numbers of people who live out of walking distance from Brockley would go there rather than to one of the other local stations. I think it's laziness, to be honest. A close neighbour of ours used to drive to St John's. I imagine by the time she'd done that and found somewhere to park she'd have been just as quick walking. I used to see it when I was taking my children to school, too and I have noticed a family I know driving their children up to Aske's instead of making them get up early enough to get the 484 or the 171 - which are both free for schoolchildren, after all.

JPM said...

I don't think it unreasonable that Speedy, or anyone else for that matter, should be allowed to pick up passengers by car. (Certainly at night this can be very reassuring to those living a brisk walk away.)

What we may be faced with in future is commuters from East Dulwich making use of the new ELL, and parking all day.

The cobbles need not be new, but reclaimed. That said, technology has moved on apace and even new can be made to look original. It may require effort, but it can be done.

Anonymous said...

One of the reasons people drive to Brockley station is that it's Zone 2 and saves them several hundred quid each year.

Brockley Nick said...

@Anon - I'm sure that's true. But Brockley should do what's right for the people who live here. Those journeys create extra traffic and parking problems on our roads. If people want to take advantage of zone 2 prices, they can move here.

Tressillian James said...

Well said Nick, there is no need for parking outside the station,,and as long as Dandelion Blue, the Broca and Speedicars are consulted so it does not affect their business, I'd like to see Coulgate made into a pedestrianised area.

Anonymous said...

I wonder if you dig deep enough you would find the original cobbles under coulgate st.

APP&P Troll said...

There is some exposed 'tar bricks' near to the corner with TM2.

I'd really like to see cobbles, does anyone have an idea how much the bit outside the Broca, danadelion blue & speedy could cost?

Another issue to think about it whether or not a cobbled street would look nice next to the new brokley common (which looks rather modern).

There is a risk of too many styles in one area.

lb said...

I think they'd look fine in a modern context - they do in many European cities.

Granite setts are pretty expensive, but the biggest hurdle would be in the labour costs - which I suspect would make it a fairly expensive project. To make things worse, in Britain we no longer have the skills to lay them without mortar as used to be done here (and still is done throughout Europe - it's an excellent system in some ways, as spot repairs are very easy). As a result they're usually mortared in, which obviously is very labour-intensive and also makes the setts liable to crack. On top of this, they're regarded a lot more slippy in the wet than modern surfaces.

I'm not saying it couldn't be done - you'd just have to overcome the kind of objections given above.

Anonymous said...

It wasn't making a value judgment, just an observation.

Headhunter said...

Someone asked a while back why Boneshaker bikes were so called - it was not only due to the uneven/cobbled road surfaces, it was because they had wooden/metal "tyres", they were around long before the invention of the pneumatic tyre. They must've been a nightmare to ride!

Re parking, I think a lot of commuters park around Brockley and most of these are people who drive in from further afield.

People come in from outlying areas of London/Kent, park in Brockley because it's a zone 2 station and there's no restriction on parking, it's also relatively safe and outside the CC zone.

They can then save a heap of cash by buying a cheaper travel pass and commute to London from Brockley. I haven't got a car, but my neighbours tell me that parking along the bottom end of Manor Avenue (near the station) anywhere near home is often completely impossible as the street is lined with cars in the day time.

I think that's probably why so many people are seen to get off the train in Brockley as opposed to, say, Charlton (as Nick pointed out). Many of them then jump into cars to continue their journeys and are not in fact Brockley residents at all.

Anonymous said...

I don't want Controlled Parking zones.

APP&P troll said...

its the same in my road too. There's been times when I can't even park in my street!

Anonymous said...

"I haven't got a car, but my neighbours tell me that parking along the bottom end of Manor Avenue (near the station) anywhere near home is often completely impossible as the street is lined with cars in the day time. "

Easy solution - start letting a few tyres down. Technically this isn't vandalism as you're not damaging anyone's property - think of it as eco terrorism - one week of that and people may reconsider where they park.

Tressilliana said...

Ah! As a non-driver and infrequent user of Brockley Station, I hadn't grasped that we had all these Zone 2 tourists clogging up our streets. Likely to get worse when we get the ELL, then, unless the council starts charging for parking in the vicinity of the station.

Headhunter said...

I think CPZ's can't be far away in Brockley, as I said Manor Ave is already a nightmare and will get worse with the new development on Geoffrey Rd which the council approved with no parking provision....

Anonymous said...

A lot of the comments about parking tourists are anecdotal, I would want proper research conducted before even the thought of CPZ's.

CPZ's as a solution to alleged commuter parking is a faustian pact.

brockley mutha said...

let's not go down the CPZ route. The council have mooted it for parts of brockley a couple of times i believe and its been firmly rejected each time by the residents.

Telegraph Hill had a harder time dissuading the council when it was suggested that CPZ be introduced there - because they had an evident problem with commuter parking. Then a local resident came up with the clever suggestion of introducing CPZ for one hour only in the middle of the day - which would for sure mess up the commuters, but which wouldn't have too much impact on the residents. I'm not sure what the eventual outcome was.

Danja said...

They wouldn't do it, as it wouldn't pay for itself.

Headhunter said...

Probably wouldn't be worth it at the moment, but give it a few years, after the Overland Line is fully open and we may see even more commuter parking

JPM said...

"Easy solution - start letting a few tyres down. Technically this isn't vandalism as you're not damaging anyone's property - think of it as eco terrorism - one week of that and people may reconsider where they park."

I don't think the police might see it quite like that. In any case, drivers have every right to park on the public (Queen's) highway if their vehicle carries a road fund license. (Although they're no longer allowed to block driveways. Which is a relief.)This also includes Coulgate Street.

App&p, we need to times the length by the width - so to speak - of the street.Various Section 106s can be used, the council can provide the expertise, and the community can also get stuck in.

Anonymous said...

I'm not sure restoring Coulgate Street back to Victorian times is enough. I personally want to go back further in time and reintroduce wolves to Hilly fields and bears to Brockley common. We could have a fun run to raise the cash and to make it less boring we could get the wolves to actually chase us around the park - last one gets eaten.

Headhunter said...

Or how about Brockley Jurassic Park? We could release those raptor things onto Hilly Fields. It would scare the chavs away at least, and they wouldn't be vandalising our beloved trees

Brockley Kate said...

[dons controversialist hat]

Problem is, there's only so far one can go with incremental improvements to Coulgate St before the Brockley Rd problem rears its head.
I'm fairly happy with Coulgate St and I'd rather see energy and effort being directed into walking around the corner and sorting out Brockley Rd.
There's no point in having a picture-perfect little street that looks as though it belongs in East Dulwich if you walk around the corner and there's Brockley Rd.

Brockley Nick said...

@Kate - I agree, though hopefully it's not an either / or situation...

Danja said...

HH, I meant that was the outcome of the restricted hour(s) CPZ suggestion for Telegraph Hill. It was all-or-nothing for the Council.

Anonymous said...

Is anything actually being done about the Brockley road though??

Brockley Nick said...

I just interviewed Cllr Heidi Alexander, who's responsible for Lewisham regeneration, and that interview will shed a little more light on the fate of Brockley Road...

APP&P troll said...

If anything brockley road is going to get even more congested, its the main thoroughfare south to the south circular.

I think our main hope for brockley road lies with chain stores getting here. Its too noisy and polluted for being a typical villages steer.

Interestingly, improving coulgate st further may act as a 'catalyst' to regenerate brockley road. I think this is the safest way to go.

Anonymous said...

Cllr Heidi? She sounds fit. Does the interview shed good/bad or indifferent light on the Brockley Road?

and was she fit?

Brockley Nick said...

It was a phone interview.

Headhunter said...

Andy, There's no reason why a busy, traffic filled street can't be all chi-chi and trendy. Look at Upper Street, full of people mwah-mwah-ing each other over cocktails and lattes followed by dinner at the latest fancy food spot... All whilst the traffic piles along the A1. Also look at Lordship Lane - that's chocca with traffic most of the time but is going from strength to strength...

Anonymous said...

is it good or bad news Nick?

lb said...

Anonymous@16.58: .

lb said...

Well, I stuffed that one up. What I meant to say was:

.

lb said...

I give up.

APP&P Troll said...

How many Broca organic fair trade coffees have you had this morning?

JPM said...

App&p... it took me 180 paces to walk Coulgate Street, by 11 paces across.

I may have slipped up along the way as my little daughter kept interrupting the count.

So, that's 188 of my paces, times eleven of my paces. Which equals 2068 Square JPM paces (something wrong with that term as I'm far from).

Now, the question is, how much cobblers does it take to go into a Square JPM?

Once we've got that figure we need to add ballast, and labour. (Much higher since all the Poles went back.) And council costs?

Anonymous said...

i

Brockley Fox said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Brockley Fox said...

Hi! its great to see eveyone tlking about imprvments to the area. Brockley is an excellent area, with some terrific transport links.

With this is mind, i made up a couple of rough pictures base on the ideas of others on this site. they can be found in the brockley flickr group... http://www.flickr.com/groups/brockley/pool/

hope you like them!

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