The Daily Mail v Deptford

We've been trying to summon the energy to write about this piece by the Daily Mail (which also ran in the Metro today) but we'll stick to a few basic observations:

1. They discovered this story several weeks after it had been dissected on the blogosphere
2. The trivialisation of knife crime is an interesting approach from a paper that sensationalised the issue last year
3. They ventured away from Kensington just long enough to photograph the High Street after the market had taken place, not long enough to stick around for the regular clean-up that follows
4. Fair play to Cllr Heidi Alexander for managing a decent quote

Anyway, back to forecasting the swine apocalypse.

141 comments:

quick brown fox said...

There's also a short piece on page 11 of the Daily Telegraph today, but without the ludicrous photo used by the Mail.

I live nowhere near Deptford but this sort of spiteful and lazy journalism makes me seethe.

Anonymous said...

Good to see that BC has finally found it's equilibrium. With all the important local news elsewhere it's always reaasuring to here about cobblers and Daily Mail nonsense.

keep up the **** work!

Brockley Nick said...

Such as anon?

Anonymous said...

Terry's All Locks raid in 2007 of course!

Brockley Nick said...

A two-year old non-story of misstaken identity. Can't believe I missed that one.

Anonymous said...

well, there's so much to miss - nice that they chose to illustrate the non-article with a syringe.

Please pay attention in future

;)

drakefell debaser said...

Makes you wonder why people bother because the mail article is just a re-hash of what other newspapers have done except they have gone right out of their way to be negative about a place they probably haven't been to.

Good to see the readership comments matching the stereotype though. Consistent, if nothing else.

patrick1971 said...

I lived in Deptford for eight years. The truth is, as always, somewhere in between the comments in the Mail articles. Yes, it's run-down. Yes, there's lots of crime (was mugged twice and burgled once). But yes, there are also lots of interesting places there, some good places to go for food & drink, and a good community spirit also.

Anonymous said...

Who actually reads those papers anyway. Haven't they always written alot of biased and unresearched information.

Anonymous said...

I think a press release has been sent out to all the nationals cos they all have it today. We knew about it weeks ago at the Mercury.

853blog said...

When The London Paper did it a little while ago, it did smell of "Lewisham Council press release".

Second photo down is "(c) Flickr.com" which suggests they've nicked it.

Roz said...

great excuse to wear my 'hated by the Daily Mail' badge as I shop in the fine streets of Deptford...

Brockley Jon said...

It really is a load of tosh isn't it - the fact they describe Deptford High Street as "a typical street" just shows how clueless they are.

The wall mural looks fantastic doesn't it! Wasn't that Artmongers?

Hugh said...

Didn't stop the NY Times saying Deptford is the coolest place in London, with the railway carriage caff getting a shout. As seen on News at Ten. I think Creekside will be huge.

Anonymous said...

People have being saying that about Deptford for over 15 years.

Hugh said...

Just as Brockley has been tipped for greatness since 1890.

Brockley Nick said...

And great it is.

Headhunter said...

It was (and still is?) great. Have you looked at Booth's Map of Poverty? The conservation area was home to some very illustrious people in its day...

Anonymous said...

Nobody knows what will happen to Brockley in the next few years. The only reason that people think there could be change is because of the ELL. That is the catalyst (in their eyes) to something happening. Without the ELL I don't Brockley would have reason change significantly at all for years and years. It hasn't changed that much in the last ten years so it remains to be seen whether the ELL connection will have any real effect.

Hugh said...

The ELL won't change anything. It might draw people's attention to the area but anyone thinking of buying will look closely at where the ELL takes them, and see there are quicker ways to both the City and Canary Wharf.

Anonymous said...

Thats's an opinion I know many people hold.

Anonymous said...

That's even....

Brockley Nick said...

Hugh, you are ignoring the growth of London Bridge as an employment hub. The Shard and its baby brother, the completion of More London, the planned redevelopment of the area immediately south and east of London Bridge station. There will be few places in London which offer such a lovely environment as Brockley, within easy reach of the City, Canary Wharf and London Bridge. All Brockley needs is another decent pub or two, a better high street and some remodelling of Brockley Cross and we're done.

Headhunter said...

Someone here a few months ago said following the openeing of the DLR to Lewisham in 1999, there was a shift in house prices and an increase in amenities along the line so there's no reason to expect any less when the ELL opens to Brockley or that any improvements have already happened.

Since I moved to Brockley in 2006 I am increasingly finding that when I tell people where I live, they have actually heard of Brockley rather than them coming up with the usual hackneyed joke about Broccoli, so our area's profile is definitely getting higher.

Anonymous said...

On several occasions I've told people I live in Brockley and they indicate that they know where that is. Later I've found out that they thought I lived in either Bromley, Brockwell or Brocklehurst. After I've told them where Brockley actually is they've frown and told me they'd never heard of it.

To add insult- after a works do recently, my boss - of over 6 years- who I work with closely and who lives in Kingston Upon Thames- asked again where I lived. After telling him for the hundreth was Brockley he said - "Yes, it's amazing how many of us (in our office) who live outside of London."

Hugh said...

Nick, I'm not ignoring the Shard or anything else.

London Bridge is already the destination for City workers who get the train in and the ELL won't change that.

There are already enough high earners working in the City to have made Brockley a property hotspot. Adding a few more and housing them in the Shard leaves the position unchanged.

Hugh said...

Headhunter, the DLR meant Lewisham and Blackheath were near the Wharf. The ELL makes no such significant difference.

Headhunter said...

The ELL surely provides a better link for people in Brockley to Canary Wharf and the West End. Change at Canada Water to the Jubilee Line.

Currently to get to Can Wharf you can walk to Deptford Br, which of course is manageable for some people in Brockley, or get the bus? Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't go to Canary Wharf and if I did I would cycle.

As for the West End, again, you can change at Can Water and head to Bond Street. This provides an alternative route to the usual London Br change to Jubilee or to a train to Charing Cross.

It also provides a cheaper route in for pay as you go Oyster card holders like me, as you can take the Tube all the way rather than pay for an overland train, then pay again when you change to the Tube.

Hugh said...

If getting to the Wharf were an issue anyone buying would just buy on the St Johns side of the conservation area and take the DLR from Deptford Bridge.

How to get to the West End won't make any difference to the housing market.

max said...

The last word on the effect of ELL on investment has been spoken:
http://tinyurl.com/chmvw9

Danja said...

Just being on the tube map will raise Brockley's profile hugely, especially with stereotypical north/west london myopic types.

People measure distance in tube stops and Canary Wharf-Brockley will look a lot closer than it does now because Brockley doesn't really exist.

Having said that, the old ELL had New Cross and NXG on it, and there was no detectable flood of bankers.

Hugh said...

You've just explained why New Cross Gate is the new Islington.

Headhunter said...

Hugh - How do you know that people trying to get to the Wharf are NOT buying on the St Johns side of the cons area? If I had a job over that way, I certainly would.

Why shouldn't easier access to the West End make any difference? Is that the gosel according to Hugh?! Quite a few people I know work out that way or spend time in the West End.

Hugh said...

Headhunter, buying on the St Johns side will mean the ELL is irrelevant to Wharf workers.

The West End connection is irrelevant because the West End is already easily accessible and the ELL won't make enough of a difference to sway the housing market.

Comment said...

I like Brockley for what it is. There's a few bits here but I like it being somewhat sleepy if I want excitement of resturants etc I go into town or the neighbours towns Dulwich, Blackheath.

We have a good community here, if you choose to tap into it and that is what makes an area for me.

Comment said...

The Daily Mail is a rag of a paper. Sadly I'm drawn to read from time to time but always regret soon after.

As for Deptford I've always associated the place with violence, Marlowe was killed in a tavern there.

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

I live on the St Johns side of the conservation area hence my name. The ability to use Oyster Card Pre-pay on the trains will have a greater effect on me than the ELL.

It will mean I can get into work in the West End more cheaply and easily than at present.

I am pleased to see the new Oyster readers under their covers on St Johns platform. Roll on their introduction.

Tressilliana said...

We have neighbours who work in finance - one at Canary Wharf, one at London Bridge. Brockley is ideal for both of them.

If I wanted to go to Canary Wharf, I'd walk to Lewisham station - or if I had something heavy to carry I'd get the 484 - and pick up the DLR. It takes me about 15 mins to walk to Lewisham station - surely most people in the conservation area could manage that?

The Cat Man said...

walk? whats that?

Headhunter said...

Hugh, if I worked in the Wharf it would probably be as quick or quicker to use the Brockley ELL extension than walk down to Deptford Br, I suppose people at the end of Tyrrwhitt may be beter off heading to DB though, but for some patricularly in the NE quarter of the conservation area and on the darkside, the ELL will most definitely offer a better route or at the very least, an alternative route to the Docklands.

The West End is not that easily accessible, you have to train to Lon Br then switch to Jubilee or change at Lon Br to a train for Charing X and walk it. The first option involves paying twice for Oyster PAYG holders. Before the ELL closed, I often used to walk down to New Cross to get the Tube to the West End so this route will be better.

As was outlined before, the DLR extension to Lewisham affected house prices (if they are important to you) after it opened back in 1999, although of course the market was on the rise anyway at that time. However, I don't believe that we have seen the full effect on either house prices or local amenities.

Paddyom said...

What a bunch of drama queens to take a photo of the high street directly after the market has finished and use it as a representation of the area. Gutter journalism.

fred vest said...

youse should all move to catford (well not really), can get to all these places directly from one departure point:-

london bridge
cannon street
charing cross
victoria
st pancras

but you don't here us shouting from the rooftops about it, no, we just get on with things

Brockley Nick said...

Fred, it sounds like catford is a commuter's paradise - they should build a load more upmarket housing there to cater for the city workers. Maybe on the old dog track.

patrick1971 said...

Catford is such a bizarre place. The high street, shopping area and bit around the stations is, quite frankly, a toilet and would benefit from wholesale demolition. But there's that great green open space opposite the station, and the housing in the surrounding streets (e.g. Ravensbourne Park) is lovely and really well kept. There's a huge dissonance between the town centre and the residential areas.

patrick1971 said...

Catford is such a bizarre place. The high street, shopping area and bit around the stations is, quite frankly, a toilet and would benefit from wholesale demolition. But there's that great green open space opposite the station, and the housing in the surrounding streets (e.g. Ravensbourne Park) is lovely and really well kept. There's a huge dissonance between the town centre and the residential areas.

Hugh said...

Headhunter, the point isn't whether the ELL will help you reach the Wharf. The question is what effect it will have on people moving here.

I've dealt with the effect of the DLR on Lewisham house prices above.

And the West End is a non-point. The City and Wharf, if anywhere, are what will drive Brockley's property market.

Headhunter said...

But if it helps me, it will help others. I don't live in a vacuum.

You didn't really deal with house prices and the West End at all. You just said it's a non-point. I don't agree. Of course there are more accessible places to live than Brockley if you want to get to the West End, but it remains one of the cheapest places in zone 2 and if money is an issue, Brockley is not a million miles from the West End and the ELL will make it that bit easier to get to.

Headhunter said...

Fred, I used to live in Catford for several years and although it wasn't bad, the trains to the destinations you mention weren't exactly frequent. I seem to remember trains from Catford Bridge back in my day were about 1 per hour on a Sunday - awful. We used to get trains back from central London to Lewisham and then get the bus because the Catford trains were so few and far between. Perhaps that has changed now. Also it's in zone 3 which makes fares that little bit more expensive

Hugh said...

Headhunter:

1. Anyone moving to the area can just as easily live near the DLR. So it's irrelevant that the ELL will connect the wrong side of Brockley to the Wharf. There's already a side near the DLR.

2. No one moves to Brockley on the basis getting to the West End for a night out has just become slightly easier.

Do read the posts.

fred vest said...

@ hh
every 15-20 mins pretty much to london bridge/chx/cannon, and 15min journey time to london bridge - every 30min to st pancras & victoria

people's opinions on catford are far to subjective and they usually involve a certain amount of irrational snobbery (straight up or inverted), it's not a perfect place by any stretch of the imagination, but it has the basics in terms of what a lot of people need - decent transport connections, accessible supermarket, affordable shops, decent library, good sports facilities and parks, hospital and good GP centres, lovely theatre, decent selection of pubs, street markets, a plethora of xian fundamentalist sects, a few cafes & restraunts, normal shops that you need stuff from like argos/boots/wh smiths/good pound shops/wickes - and you can live there for much cheaper than places like brockley which could only ever dream about having a lot of the stuff mentioned in that list - yes it's not a 'village' like some people in london get so excited about, but to be fair, all the times i've passed through brockley i've never once thought, oh what a lovely wee village atmosphere in this place

overall, it's the mix of different places like brockley & catford that makes lewisham such a great place to live in

tend to agree with hugh on his points as well

Headhunter said...

Hugh - Yeah but Brockley is much more pleasant than any area along the stretch of DLR south of the river, excluding Greenwich perhaps, but then prices there are much higher.

I moved to Brockley because it is in zone 2, not far from work, not far from the West End. If you want access to the West End and want to live in an area with relatively cheap accommodation, you're not gonna do much better than Brockley within zone 2. Esp when the ELL opens.

Headhunter said...

Fred - Sounds like they may have upped the frequency of trains to and from Catford/Bridge. I think when I left Catford in 02, trains were only as frequent as every 15 mins during peak times, then they fell back to every 30 mins and something like every hour on Sundays

Hugh said...

Headhunter, my points stand. This isn't about you!

Anonymous said...

i moved to brockley because (not being a city /wharf worker) i couldn't afford to buy in greenwich. Brockley appealed because its near by my old friends/neighbours (1 mile) in greenwich, and because the trains were both quicker to LB, and more reliable. If you think Southern is sh*te, try communting on SouthEastern or whatever its called now.

Subsequently, my office moved to Old st. I used to commute either train to LB, then Northern line to Old st; or, walk to NXG, and ELL to Shoreditch. People do actually work in shoreditch, and they need affordable housing! If you don't fancy Hackney, and i didn't, then, Brockley with ELL is paradise.

Monkeyboy said...

Fred Vest and Hugh agree. At this rate Brockley Central will be asked to sort out the Palestine/Israel conflict.

fred vest said...

"Fred - Sounds like they may have upped the frequency of trains to and from Catford/Bridge"

bishop berkely was wrong you know, things exist/move on even when you're not looking at them

Headhunter said...

Hugh - Unique as I like to think I am, in reality I am probably not. So if I believe this about Brockley, there's a fair chance that some others do too

fred vest said...

"I moved to Brockley because it is in zone 2"

some londoners have a strange infatuation with zoning (and tube stops in general) - like they'll pick up pig flu or AIDS if they have to live in zone 3

Hugh said...

Headhunter, you still miss the point. Suggest a strong coffee.

fabhat said...

fred vest - or they simply don't want to have to pay extra for their fares, find it harder to get a black cab to take you home, or pay over the odds for a bike courier to collect from you?

fred vest said...

"fred vest - or they simply don't want to have to pay extra for their fares, find it harder to get a black cab to take you home, or pay over the odds for a bike courier to collect from you?"

well in this particular example of my discussion with HH about catford and him wanting to live in zone 2 let's run through the relevancey of your points

1. it's about £15 a month extra for a zone 3 travelcard over 1-2, i don't want to generalise but i'm sure the greater affordability of housing in catford compared to brockley would more than offset this marginal increase in fares (and in this case travel could even be cheaper in zone 3 than zone 2, given the plethora of mainlines central london rail stations that can be reached directly means many don't even need to buy a full tube/rail travelcard, so you could actually be about 30 quid a month better off by being in zone 3 in this instance)

2. i don't get black cabs often although i've yet to find/hear about a taxi driver who would agree to drive to brockley, but refuse to go to catford - refuse to go south at all yes, but in that case the point becomes irrelevant for both

3. i can't really comment on paying bike couriers to collect from me - but if bike couriers are often to be found at HH's pad, collecting stuff from him who would baulk at the prospect of peddling the extra wee distance down to catford then i take your point

as i said before, this infuation with zones (and being on a tube line) doesn't often translate into actual rational/objective reasons - but then again that's london for you

Headhunter said...

Hugh - I've kind of forgotten what the point even was. let's leave it...

Fred - Don't get me wrong, I lived in Catford for 2.5 years and enjoyed it, but I lived on the Corbett estate and it was a 25 minute schlep from the station to where I lived and the trains back then weren't frequent. I have no idea what the frequency is now.

The ELL will give Brockley trains every 8 minutes or whatever it is. If I want to get to Victoria I can also walk down to Lewisham or up to Nunhead neither of which is that far away, or take the loop round.

You can also get to central London (the City or West End) by bus without changing, from Brockley. My flat mate doesn't buy a rail travel card at all, he just has a bus pass which is a fair amount cheaper. He takes a single bus to work in central London which gets him in within an hour. I don't think it's as easy as that from Catford. Certainly didn't used to be back in 2000-2002.

fred vest said...

don't get me wrong, i don't want you moving back!

(there are a number of direct buses from catford into central london, one passes through brockely as well i think, and another through deptford and approaches from the east)

Headhunter said...

I was going to say Fred, you sound like you're almost trying to convince the central London working, ciabatta eating, gentrifying masses to move to Catford. I thought you were dead set against that?

Headhunter said...

As far as I remember, buses that terminate in central London from Catford go waaaay round the houses and take ages. I could be wrong though, it's been a long time since I lived in Catford. I remember the once or twice I may have tried them that they took ages anyway. From Brockley it's just about manageable.

fred vest said...

"As far as I remember, buses that terminate in central London from Catford go waaaay round the houses"

well one of them passes through brockley on it's merry way into town, so other than adding on 10mins or so from catford to brockley surely the advantages or disadvantages would apply to both catford and brockley together

another route through deptford/canada water gets you to london bridge in under an hour and continues up to liverpool street and if you're a twat, shoreditch

i don't think there's that much differentation in terms of buses between the two places HH, and lets face it anyone travellingr regularly on the buses from either of these two places will be subject to all manner of the crap that goes on in them

Anonymous said...

London Bridge in under an hour!!!! ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. I'd give up the job in the Catford tourist board mate if I were you. You're not doing the place any favours coming out with that one.

Anonymous said...

Don't see why not - Ladywell Station (much superior to Brockley and largely ignored by Brockley commuters) gets to London Bridge in 15 minutes. Catford is the next stop on the line.

fred vest said...

merely responding to HH's point about being able to get into the city in just under an hour from brockley and showing the same thing can be done from catford - the point being made was a relative one, not an absolute one - keep up

fred vest said...

"Don't see why not - Ladywell Station (much superior to Brockley and largely ignored by Brockley commuters) gets to London Bridge in 15 minutes. Catford is the next stop on the line."

indeed, if you get the fast train as well you're only one stop from london bridge from ladywell, 2 from catford

Anonymous said...

Catford is a shithole, loser.

Anonymous said...

That's not a relative comment by the way, Fred Vest. (raises eyebrows)

fred vest said...

"Catford is a shithole, loser"

given the rigour and objective analysis contained in this argument, i'll have to throw the towel in and conceed the point to this formidable modern day protagoras

Comment said...

Catford is like most places in London, part good, part not so good.
St. Dunstan's is very nice school. The two train stations, which I thought were going to be linked by a bridge are very convenient.

The resturants I don't know I never eaten there but there's lots of them, so presumably they are doing good business and are ok.

It has a conservation area, that rivals and indeed surpasses our own in that it remains largely unscathed by damage from the Luftwaffe and the council alike.

It's close to Bromley shopping centre, lots of green spaces. There are far, far worse places to live in London coughdeptfordcough.

Headhunter said...

"Don't see why not - Ladywell Station (much superior to Brockley and largely ignored by Brockley commuters) gets to London Bridge in 15 minutes. Catford is the next stop on the line."

We're talking buses, not trains, anon. I think you'd be hard pushed to get from Catford to London Bridge and definitely the West End in under an hour, even on a good day. Not least because the buses that run to central London are also less frequent.

The 171 which is, I think the bus you are referring to which passes through Brockers, takes ages. It meanders its way through Peckham etc. I wouldn't take it to get to the centre.

Better to take one of the ones which pass along Lewisham Way past the edge of the Brock Cons Area - the 21 or the 453 (they terminate before Catford), or possibly the 172, which goes more or less the same route as the 171 without fiddling about in Peckham.

fred vest said...

fair enough, i'll give you this one

(although given the far superior level of train services from catford, it's only fair that brockley gets to claim victory in terms of buses into central london)

Headhunter said...

Huzzah. Victory for Brockley. i think....

Tressilliana said...

From personal experience, I can say that the 172 takes just about the same amount of time to get to Waterloo from Brockley as the 171 does. Both incredibly slow, but much cheaper than the train, plus you do see life on the bus - warts and all.

Headhunter said...

I think the 171 usually takes about 10 or so mins longer IME. I used both to get to work for a while and the 172 was a bit quicker as it doesn't do all those stops through Peckham. You can get from Brockley to Fleet Street/bottom of Fetter Lane in less than an hour in rush hour. At least I did when I used it to get to work. Of course the same journey by bicycle takes me 20-25 mins....

Headhunter said...

As for life on the bus, in the morning rush, the 172 is generally filled with commuters trying to ignore each other, nose buried in a magazine or mobile phone. A few kids are usually on it but they get off near New Cross usually. Nothing very exciting. For ultimate excitement you need to ride the night buses.

Hugh said...

Headhunter, remind me what you ride.

Headhunter said...

Bike number 1 is a Focus Cayo, monocoque carbon frame with Shimano 105 group (mainly).

My commuter (bike number 2) is a second hand Halfords hack (Apollo branded) with Shimano Sora/lower grade Shimano group, 7005 aluminium frame. Pretty chunky but it gets me from A to B and is pretty reliable.

Bike number 3 is an old steel framed Peugeot with "period" groupset(!) I use it when bike number 2 is out of action for the commute.

Bike number 4 is a Marin MTB which I barely ever use. I thought I might eventually get round to some off road riding, but so far I haven't

Hugh said...

Specialized Roubaix with mixture of Ultegra and DuraAce and new frame, gratis courtesy Evans (old one cracked).

We must do battle.

My carbon frame will own you.

Comment said...

Talk about derailing a thread!

Headhunter said...

Do battle indeed! Just look out for the yellow flash whisking past you on the Old Kent Rd (my Halfords hack is yellow)....

Headhunter said...

Comment - Yeah but the Brockley v Catford debate has ended....

Hugh - How long did you have the bike before the carbon cracked? I live in fear of my Focus frame suddenly failing whilst I'm heading down a hill at 50mph...

Hugh said...

Three years. And I don't ride the Old Kent Road. I take a longer route into the City so that I rack up 22 miles a day. past Tea Factory, up over Telegraph Hill, up Nunhead High Street, across Peckham Rye, through East Dulwich to Herne Hill, past the lido up to Brixton, through Stockwell to Vauxhall then cross the river at Southwark Bridge to the citadel of money and power.

I can recommend the route if you get up early enough to avoid heavy traffic.

And the same on the way home. Buns like these? Well, what did you expect?

Headhunter said...

That IS round the houses. I would try a longer route in the morning but I tend to like my time in bed, so I get up at the last minute, jump on the bike and go in on the most direct route possible. I usually do the DP ride(s) at the weekend anyway.

Hugh said...

Summer is the time for early morning commutes. Leaving at any time past 7.30am is pointless if you want to enjoy a reasonably obstacle-free ride, I find.

patrick1971 said...

"It has a conservation area, that rivals and indeed surpasses our own in that it remains largely unscathed by damage from the Luftwaffe and the council alike."Where is the Catford conservation area? Which streets?

Headhunter said...

I leave at 8ish and there certainly is traffic out there, but doing battle with the cars and buses is part of the fun!

Anonymous said...

I'm still in bed then!

Headhunter said...

Patrick - This must be it

Hugh said...

Headhunter, perhaps I should add that I tend to cruise at 23-24mph.

I think you're getting the picture.

Danja said...

I think it is either side (certainly the east side) of the road heading south from the square-about in the middle. The bits I've seen are more Edwardian.

Headhunter said...

Hugh - That's fast for inner London. I can reach that speed on the straight bits of OKR but there are traffic lights to deal with. So how long does yuor commute take you?

fred vest said...

yep the link HH posted shows it

i've only walked through it a couple of times, it's a nice place though if a little boring/stuffy, and a fair wee walk from the train stations

Hugh said...

Headhunter, my average speed isn't that high. I'd guess 16-18mph with all the stops and starts and traffic. On the Albert Embankment from Lambeth Palace to St Thomas's though I tend to hit 27-28mph. Once hit a bit over 32mph but there must have been a tail wind. I never get out of the saddle. It's a principle to which I adhere rigidly.

Anonymous said...

There is some serious Brokeback Mountain action going on between you two. And how often does Hugh refer to his buns? Get a room guys.

Headhunter said...

I don't know if our relationship has quite got that far yet, anon. I haven't even met Hugh, not sure he would be my type. What do you look like Hugh?

tyrwhitt ali said...

http://property.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/property/article6216841.ece

The Times may have been a little slow off the mark

Hugh said...

Lance Armstrong.

patrick1971 said...

That Times article gets it about right, I would say, based on my eight years of living there.

Headhunter said...

Lance? Really? Not sure there's any future in it though, our opinions on house prices in Brockley differ too wildly...

Hugh said...

And one of us is selling up when the ELL arrives.

Headhunter said...

Come on Hugh, you've been on the verge of selling up for the past 2 years... It ain't gonna happen. Face it, you is Brockley, there's no escaping.

Hugh said...

Praise be legal salary wars, Headhunter old fruit.

Headhunter said...

Well fingers crossed banking seems to be through the worst of it and I've still got a job but I'm staying in Brockers for the moment. So - did you get out on the bike over the weekend? Any plans for next weekend?

Hugh said...

Rode a bit this weekend but not fond of slate skies or wind when riding, so spent most of the time swimming. Will wait for sunshine and warm air before any long rides although eyeing the Evans ride in late May, probably the shorter (53 mile) version. You?

Headhunter said...

Is that the King of the Downs super sportive on the 17th May? I went out for 65 miler with DP on Sun. Thought it was going to be nice and hot but it ended up cloudy and a bit cold. Tough ride though, the cat 2 racers were out and I could barely keep up. In the end got left behind waiting for another guy who'd had a puncture. Had to stop to refuel on the way back through Crystal Palace and inhaled 2 Cadbury's Creme Eggs and a bottle of Lucozade Energy to keep me going...

Hugh said...

That's the one. Haven't really ridden much over the winter so wouldn't fancy the 110 miles, although I doubt I'd fancy that even at the best of times.

Headhunter said...

So, Hugh, do you fancy a pre King of the Downs warm up run through Kent this weekend?

Hugh said...

Headhunter, come and do the KotD with me.

graeme said...

As a matter of interest who was out on Sunday HH? (Just trying to gauge the speed - describe bikes if you can't do names.) FWIW a few 2nd cats don't bother with the mad Sunday ride, because it's often too fast to be effective training!

Pete said...

I'm going on the Sunday ride this coming weekend. I was feeling a bit under the weather this Sunday so went out yesterday on my own.

Headhunter said...

Graeme - There were a couple of Colombians in the mix and I was told a couple of "good cat 2s", not sure their names but caught up with 1 at the cafe afterwards. He was from NZ I think judging by the accent, rather than Australia and was riding a Look bike. Not sure which of the others were cat 2, as I mentioned, I waited for a guy with a pucnture and the b*stards left us behind! TBH though I would have been dropped anyway if I hadn't waited for the bloke with the puncture, the pace was too high.

Hugh - Perhaps I should join you on the KotD, how are you getting to the start? Train?

Headhunter said...

When you say too fast to be effective training, is that because slower, longer rides are better for that?

Hugh said...

Headhunter, yes, train. Be warned though that if the weather's poor I'll stay at home and go to the pool.

PS All this Cat 2 war hero stuff is a bit tedious. The more men talk that way, the less ability they have, I tend to find. Present company excepted I'm sure.

graeme said...

If you can keep up with Andy Eagles (the Kiwi), you're faster than me!

(I'm finally back on my bike after 7 months off, and not appreciably slower than I was last year. Which isn't saying much.)

Yes, long and steady, or medium at 'sweet-spot' intensity, or short and hard, giving you the ability to recover. The Sunday ride tends to be a mix of all of these when I've managed to survive one!

Headhunter said...

I freely admit I'm not cat 2! I have no idea what cat I am... Have you entered already? Let me know what time yuo're heading down there - email me on headhunter_bc@hotmail.co.uk.

Headhunter said...

I just about kept up, albeit at the back of the group for the 1st part of the ride, but as I said, I would never have kept that pace going for the full 60 odd miles. Yeah the Sunday rides are very varied, sometimes they're quite leisurely and people stop for drinks and snacks etc and other times they're a crazy pace, it seems that summer time is crazy pace season...

Graeme and Pete, fancy doing the KotD then?

Pete said...

It's 110 miles and I haven't done anything like that for 18 months. I did the Sunday ride the week before last and kept up with them until I knew where I was (Andy Eagles was there pushing the pace) at which point I said goodbye to everyone and crawled home.

You'll have to persuade me this weekend that a 110 mile ride is a good idea.

graeme said...

HH everyone starts as a 4th cat when they get their BC race licence. 10 points (a win at crystal palace for example) makes you a 3rd and then a further 30 points in the season makes you a 2nd. (You'll need another 100 points to make 1st).


Will take a look at this KotD of which you speak...

Headhunter said...

Graeme - I see...

Pete - I was thinking more along the lines of the 53 mile circuit rather than the 110 miler. How about that? If there are enough of us we could get Brockley Central T shirts made up!

I can't do the Sun ride this weekend unfortunately, I'll do the Sat ride instead I think.

Pete said...

Well, I'm up for doing the 53 miler (subject to my wife Lara telling me I'm not doing anything that weekend).

I think we ought to wear our Dulwich jerseys though really.

Maybe I'll do the Saturday ride so that I know what you look like then. I could really push the boat out and do both rides.

Headhunter said...

Pete - Well let me know if you're doing the Sat ride, I usually catch it from Elmers End rather than going up to Palace so we can head out of Brockley together if you're doing it. Or if you know a better, longer route then I wouldn't mind doing something longer on Sat morning but my sense of direction is crap which is why I always head out with the club. I would prefer to do the Sunday ride but I have been invited to lunch at some friends to admire and coo over their new baby....

Pete said...

OK, let's meet up in Brockley beforehand and head out. I know how to get to Toys and Ide hill which makes the Saturday ride a bit more challenging.

Graeme the wuss said...

Having looked at the route, I think I'll swerve this one! My legs aren't yet ready for Coombe Bottom and the lethal Leith Hill.

Might join you on Saturday though.

Pete said...

Another ride we could consider is the Dunwich Dynamo. Someone on Dulwich's forum is thinking of organising a coach back.

Headhunter said...

Pete & Graeme - OK then, Brockley Central Ride Part 2! I promise to be there at the right time this time! What time and where? Hugh? You joining us?

Nothing too challenging though, I've just remembered I've got a birthday bbq in the afternoon which I need some energy for

Graeme said...

Ah - just remembered. I'll be at Blenheim Palace until 9 o'clock Saturday morning. Honest.

One day, HH, one day!

bored bystander said...

What happened to the Cycle Lane?

Pete said...

Well HH, it could just be me and you then. I actually always enjoy meeting at the CSG as I like the ride up the hill and the possibility of eating a pastry when I get there.

However, if you would rather ride out to Elmer's end then I'm happy to do that with you so as to avoid missing you there. My plan would be to stay with the others until we get to the top of beddlestead lane and then drop down to the pilgrim's way, climb toy's hill and then ide hill before coming back over sundridge.

Pete said...

"What happened to the Cycle Lane?"

It got dug up?

monkeyboy said...

HH, bring a camera. We need a photo of Hugh.

Headhunter said...

Pete - OK, let's head up to the cafe for the start of the ride. Shall I see you there or do you want to head up that way together?

Monkeyboy - I don't think Hugh's coming but I may enroll for the KotD just on the offchance that I may get a glimpse!

Graeme - Next time then!

Pete said...

Let's head up to the cafe together. What time would you like to meet and where? I usually try to leave around 8:40 with a view to getting there a bit early.

Headhunter said...

OK, I usually cross at Brockley X, then through the dark side, across to Brenchley Gdns, Wood Vale, up Sydenham Hill and round. If we do that route shall we meet by Brockley X or the station or something at 8.40am?

Pete said...

OK, I usually go a completely different route but am happy to experiment. I'll see you outside Broca on Coulgate street at 8:40.

Headhunter said...

Right - see you there!

Headhunter said...

Pete - can't see your email address on your profile. Send me a mail at headhunter_bc@hotmail.co.uk let's talk about KotD

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