Brockley Cross measured up

"You have been weighed, you have been measured and you have been found wanting."
- Adhemar, A Knight's Tale

In what world could Brockley Cross possibly be considered a good road layout? The confusing, dangerous and ugly system that encourages flytipping and double parking and frustrates the efforts of Lewisham Council's planners to attract suitable developers to some of Brockley's key sites is finally set to be replaced.

As we reported in September, the Council applied for TfL funding to remodel Brockley Cross, to improve safety and the quality of the public realm.

Today, the surveyors are out in force, taking measurements that will enable them to develop a detailed proposal for Brockley Cross' enhancement. It's very encouraging to see work underway and we hope to bring you more news soon.

35 comments:

Anonymous said...

Wonder whether a pedestrianised piazza with fountains and flowerbeds is a bit much to hope for?

Anonymous said...

Perhaps they could get it built by the same people who did the Brockley ramp - the most pointless construction project in history.

Matt-Z said...

With visionary Lewisham in charge I imagine we'll get a traffic control system like this:

http://www.slipperybrick.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/stop.jpg

Anonymous said...

Assuming they follow the same precedent as set by the Brockley Ramp, I expect the new design to be an all-inclusive, gender-neutral, ethno-centric double-roundabout design.

Anonymous said...

hmm

Anonymous said...

Maybe something like this...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Magic_Roundabout_Schild_db.jpg

Brockley Nick said...

Yes, v funny all but please let us try not to be assholes. The Council is trying to address one of the area's biggest, oldest problems, so credit where it is due.

Teddy Bare said...

Nick is right; this is probably the key local issue (for public safety, quality of life, redevelopment, regeneration)...

I have many times cried out on here for change at the cross. I saw another ambulance scrapping someone up the other day so perhaps we have reached the injury/death threshold where somebody is actually forced to do something. F*cking disgrace!

The Cat Man said...

Yes, this is all very encouraging! I'm going to stop myself getting too excited though, I know what could happen or more to the point not happen!

..and please please please do not let Conways touch the site!

Anonymous said...

Here Here Cat-Man,But unfortunately I bet Conway's do get the contract.

Anonymous said...

positive stuff but my only concern is that the potential impact any new system may have on the residential roads nearby.

Andy Endwell said...

Well it could not possibly get any worse..............could it???

Brockley Nick said...

Interesting, anon. What possible consequences are you concerned about?

The Cat Man said...

Well, Mantle Road is soon to be getting road improvements - i.e. road humps, a new pedestrian crossing, cycle lanes and i'm guessing some sort of traffic restriction?

I think we are begining to see the councils plan for the area - Brockley Road will continue to be a main throughpass with other roads being encouraged to have less traffic.

Moira said...

They will probably repeat all the work that was done some years ago when the Brockley Cross masterplan was drawn up, it will cost a fortune and then they'll say it's too expensive to implement.

Danja said...

I am a little concerned that this is linked with the getting rid of the A2 Kender triangle gyratory - i.e. finding other routes for traffic to flow through after that whole section of the A2 goes down to one lane (and a bus lane) each way.

It may be unwarranted, though, given that there are points along the A2 in New Cross where it is pinched to one lane anyway.

Anonymous said...

Great news, it's such a dangerous place both driving and as a pedestrian as well as being an eyesore so anything must be an improvement.

Anonymous said...

Nick - I know nothing about how these things work so I'm not specifically worried about anything that I predict will happen- I'm just voicing a general concern about my faith in the council to do a thorough job. I guess I'm a bit worried that plans won't force traffic down residential roads and simply move the problem rather than solve it.

Anonymous said...

Is the pedestrian crossing on mantle road changing location or just getting a re-vamp?

Anonymous said...

Good news, fingers crossed for a positive outcome, about time Brockley Cross got the Lawrence Lewellyn Bowen treatment!

Tamsin said...

I'm with Danja on this. It is already a busy four way junction where three B roads converge and the 172 and 171 buses go off down Shardeloes, and it is likely to get worse when the A road traffic snarls up even more as the Kender triangle re-design (specifically intended to be car-unfriendly) at the A2 and A202 junction has its impact.

And at present it works quite well - I often drive through it on my way to and from work and walk (when I've got no excuse to drive) and with reasonable care it strikes me as fine for both pedestrians and traffic.

The double roundabout is a good design for filtering northbound traffic round into Drakefell. The only minor improvement needed is to make this clearer as you come under the bridge - with two lanes, one for stuff turning left and the other for cars going straight on or turning right.

Any major changes to the system would probably only make matters worse and - as has been mooted above - have all sorts of unforeseen consequences.

Sort out the illegal parking, perhaps put in some more pedestrian crossings - at least 25 meters back from the roundabouts - and othewise leave adequately well alone.

Anonymous said...

wouldn't one large roundabout be better than two small ones? Put a kerb on it - flowerbeds in the centre, and it might look presentable.

Anonymous said...

One roundabout would seem to fit the bill, wonder why there's two?

Brockley Nick said...

@danja / tamsin - there's no suggestin yet that we're likely to see a radical remodelling of the road system - more likely some improved crossings and layouts and better safety measures I guess.

Having said that, it definitely would be the right thing to replace the roundabouts and discourage cars from using rat runs like geoffrey road.

Tamsin, I'm astonished to hear you say it works fairly well. Tell that to the paramedics. It's a complete mess and to excuse it on the basis that it's quite good at filtering north bound traffic (how come there's traffic stacked up along brockley road every morning?) shows a shocking poverty of ambition.

Look what can be done with innovative thinking - oxford circus has been transformed.

Tyrwhitt Michae said...

If they let the people who did the proposed design for Lewisham town centre loose on it, it will have about four sets of traffic lights and take twice as long to negotiate.

A single roundabout would be my solution.

What's Brockley Cross Action Group's position on this?

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

That's embarrasing I can't even spell my own name now.

More haste less speed

Danja said...

I looked at the proposals and it seems I was being overly suspicious of TFL's intentions - I guess they are just assessing whether to fund Lewisham's proposed public realm improvements which would be a good thing.

I don't agree with Tamsin that the existing Brockley X layout is good (and I'm also in favour of the Kender triangle changes). I just selfishly don't want them to encourage traffic through the back instead of on the A2.

Brockley Nick said...

@tm - I'll do some follow-up pieces in coming weeks and ask BXAG for a comment but they are pro-change and have been lobbying for one of the solutions proposed by the work moira referred to earlier. I've linked to the designs in the past but you can find them on their site.

Tyrwhitt Michael said...

I've seen the four options on the site but I don't recall seeing the result of the vote or whether the group members/committee had a preferred option.

Lokk forward to your follow ups.

chris said...

Any remodelling needs to take account of cyclists who are vulnerable at the roundabout and have few alternative routes

Tamsin said...

I've missed something - where can you see the four options on the site?

Two roundabouts rather than one bit one mean that in the evening rush hour you don't have the two main traffic schemes - Drakefell to Brockley Road and the South Circular and Vesta/Shardeloes/Malpas/Geoffrey Road to the A20 intersecting. Maybe this won't apply if the Kender Triangle improvements - which I haven't really got my head around as far as vehicular traffic is concerned (just know it's worse for pedestrians coming from south of the A2/A20) mean that those who currently rat-run up Erlanger and so onto Kitto and Vesta will join the nose-to-tail queues in Drakefell. But I suspect there will still be heavy evening traffic in the Kitto/Vesta run through. (Unless Kitto is closed for a skate park!)

I absolutely agree that thought should be given to cyclists - I tell my daughter to get off and walk through that bit.

The true answer, of course, is better and cheaper public transport. Maybe the ELL will make a difference but in the meantime at least sign the NoToRailCuts petition.

Tamsin said...

Sorry - "streams" not "schemes" in third line second para of my last post.

And also meant to say Oxford Circus is bold and interesting but is to cater for exceedingly heavy pedestrian movement and there is limited (but large!) traffic going east-west along Oxford Street. At Brockley Cross you have to cope with very heavy traffic in all directions that is being deliberately pushed off the mainer roads.

Andy Endwell said...

Oh lawks the though of "road improvements" in Mantle Rd - that's code for festoning it with pointless obstructions!

TM said...

Tamsin

Go to http://www.brockley.com/bcag/ and choose Masterplanning on the left hand menu.

That gives you the four options from the previous consultation for the cross.

I hope they use this and don't go back to square one. Lewisham do seem to like wasting money on consultants. Shouldn't complain I am one myself.

Tamsin said...

Thanks - interesting. No attempt to deal with the traffic levels at all except to ensure things are so blocked up it goes elsewhere. Presumably Option 3 entails re-opening Vulcan Road (otherwise Telegraph Hill will be entirely cut off from access to Lewisham Way and points east) and any of them will be mighty popular with the residents of Kitto and Vesta.

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