Brockley Cross, 2070s


After we brought you the ghost of Brockley Cross' past, here's what could yet be to come.


A designer, who does not wish to be named as she says she should have been doing proper work rather than messing about with this, has send us this mock up of what a single roundabout solution could like.

BC is always happy to concede that things may be more complicated than they appear, but for the love of Pete, can anyone tell us what is wrong with this more elegant solution? The roundabout itself needn't be raised, so long vehicles could drive over it to negotiate the tight corners. The twin roundabout would of course disappear, she's just left them in for reference.

She's also extended the pavements in the yellow-shaded areas. That looks nice but the one on the left looks like it would make turning left up the hill pretty tricky.

26 comments:

Nylon said...

Can we just turn the roundabouts into a skate park?

Ed said...

My current assumption is that the joining points on a single are too close to each other..

Would love to hear from the council on this as I am not sure they are preserving the double merely to annoy us; it's possible though.

I think new crossings and high visibilty markings etc. would make a big difference straight away.

Danja said...

Both of the sharp lefts look very difficult, which is rather the point of the twins.

If you don't have the promontories, that creates a space which would be a de facto filter lane for the traffic turning immediately left - and then what governs priority between that traffic and traffic coming around the roundabout and taking the same exit?

Anonymous said...

@ Danja,

well the northern sharp left can be addressed by enlarging the north pavement of uppr brockley so the road can shift downward making a smoother bend.

The south left bend could actually remain as it was before. No need to estend the pavement.

Enlightenment Dude said...

What's that big yellow blob in the middle called?

Ans: Fantasy Island.

I can think of better things to spend half a million squids on.

E. Marples said...

This doesn't look a good solution. Are the dotted black lines the 'give way' lines? If so they're too far back from the roundabout and cars will ignore them and creep forward. It'll end up a free for all, and that isn't good for pedestrians.

TJ said...

Does anyone know the point of the double roundabout? - it must have a reason - does it stop traffic jams building up on the side roads?

I think if the counicil told us why they want/need the two roundabouts it would be a start

Anonymous said...

Or a car park Nylon

E. Marples said...

Double mini roundabouts are a good way of dealing with off-set road junctions where there's no clear case for one road taking precedence over another. All this expensive tinkering will get us no where.

Boy Racer said...

I don't think the double roundabout is all that bad, it's clearly the most traffic efficient system, or would you rather have the roads even more clogged with stationary traffic?

All we need is a load of speed humps to slow everyone right down, bigger pedestrian islands, narrower lanes and really clear and obvious road markings.

Anonymous said...

People just don't know how to drive on them, the right hand lane coming from Malpas Road is only meant for turning right, but the amount of people that just use that as a second lane to go right or straight on is ridiculous. Then you have essentially two lanes on the roundabout with two cars trying to go the same way, crazy.

A really serious accident will force the council to do something. Who's up for it?

Anonymous said...

Meant left or straight on, obvs...

Anonymous said...

Most people in London have a really poor understanding of roundabout lane discpline anyway, single or double. And many of them don't indicate.

For the record:
Left when turning left
Stay in the left lane then indicate left before the exit when going straight on
Right lane and indicate right when turning right, then indicate left before the exist

How many of the mung bean traffic police do any of the above?

Enlightenment Dude said...

Lucid exposition of the much abused Rule 186 there. Nice one.

Anonymous said...

In it's current form this interchange fails to serve either driver or pedestrian. The pavements are too narrow and the traffic flow too confusing.
I'd love to see the pedestrian crossing moved farther south as it seems to add to driver uncertainty and diminish pedestrian safety.
I would also like to see away with the two lane filter approaching from the south. In my experience behind the wheel and on foot, drivers approaching the cross struggle to read each others intentions. There is so much uncertainty. Typically people approach slowly and then quickly go for a gap, I thought roundabouts where supposed to smooth the flow of traffic.

St George said...

what's the crazy dragon-snail-lion thing ambling over brockley cross?

E. Marples said...

For goodness sake, whats confusing about the double mini roundabouts?

I'd guess that just about every driver in the rush hours uses them every day. If they don't keep to 'proper' lane discipline thats how it is in London and other busy towns. Try driving in Naples... Seems to me the only people that find it confusing are non drivers and the poor saps that stray off my wonderful M1.

bumbags said...

I'm with anon at 16.17. I wrote a comment on the old picture of the Cross a couple of days ago- if you refer back to that picture there is a LONG island, that prevents people going straight over from Malpas to Endwell, but directs them into Shardeloes from the right-hand lane. This makes total sense of the double roundabout, and it should certainly be put back.
This is what happens now coming the other way- it's impossible to go straight over from the right-hand lane, but somehow the other island has been moved.
I think a single roundabout wouldn't work- it would have to be a crossroads with traffic lights.

Anonymous said...

Hi, I did this - To clarify the yellow sections are the bits I added, the rest of the markings are on the original plan.
I wanted to see what it would look like with a single roundabout but once I'd put it in I realised that the exit/entrance roads were too far away from it, hence the spurs.
To me it ahows that it's a funny shaped junction and maybe neither double nor single roundabout is the perfect solution - maybe we need traffic lights? Or a Squoval shape roundabout?
RE: 'crazy dragon-snail-lion thing' That road leads to New Cross. New Cross = Here be Dragons :)

Danja said...

That road leads to Brockley... but you put the dragons in the right place anyway.

Danja said...

Tart the twins up, make it safer for pedestrians, clearer for dopey drivers, and then celebrate them.

Why all the negativity, Nick - what have double roundabouts done to you?

Anonymous said...

hahaha! Ooops! yes that road does lead to brockley - but I have to turn maps around or upside down in order to understand them. For some reason I had in my head that that was Shardeloes. Navigation fail (and a bloody good thing that doing road layouts isn't my job).

Tamsin said...

Did wonder about the dragon but got distracted by some work before I could comment. Do like him though...

Anonymous said...

Frankly, it's dangerous. Two of the eight turns are far too acute, no trucks could use it safely, and with the pavement extensions two left turns would have traffic crossing the middle into oncoming traffic.

Anonymous said...

It's a sketch for discussion, not a fully worked up scheme.

Round round baby, right round said...

We are not alone:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1375709/In-spin-Motorists-cyclists-baffled-pointless-double-roundabout.html

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