BorisWatch: Mayor to launch ELL tomorrow at 10am
Joey: That's way uptown! That's like three trains away! (Phoebe pinches him.) Which is great! I love to ride that rail!
- Friends
The excellent Boriswatch reckons that Mayor Boris will kick-off the limited service (which preceeds the start of the full service on May 23rd) tomorrow, riding the first train from Dalston. It says:
- Boris is going to pretend it was his idea from 10am at Dalston Junction
- Boris and invited guests will travel to Shoreditch High Street
- First public train is at 12:05 from Dalston Junction to New Cross
44 comments:
Couldnt Boris have been bothered to cross the river?
"Couldnt Boris have been bothered to cross the river?"
No, apparently - he's getting off at a building site, presumably to make noises about regeneration or something.
Other reasons he might not be heading south of the river include the reduced late evening service compared to the previous ELL, the unresolved question of whether Crystal Palace station gets its planned refurbishment and the usual mayhem over the South London Line which appears to have had a decision on its future kicked into the post-election period. Boris, however, has no qualms about taking the positive PR *before* the election, which is causing more than a few murmurings about the extent to which election purdah applies to his august person.
It's not happening until Monday now at the earliest.
Question.
How often will a London bound train (any London bound train) stop at Brockley Station, once the ELL is up and running and complementing the existing service?
PK.
Whenever the driver fancies some organic asparagus.
Can anyone answer this?
If by London bound you mean Hackney bound the answer is 12.
If by London bound you mean trains which actually go to London the answer is 4.
8 East London Line trains via nowhere useful to Dalston, 4 Southern trains to London Bridge.
The exception is between 7am-10am when a few extra Southern trains will run.
There are 6 per hour between 7-9am and 5 in the hour between 9 and 10am.
The real let down, though, is the late night services home from Canada Water.
Everyone was hoping they'd be tube like. They're not.
There are only four trains per hour after 2220, the last train leaves Canada Water BEFORE midnight and there are gaps of up to 20 minutes between trains.
Taxi!
so between 7 and 9 in the morning they'll be 8 ell + 6 southern?
So 12 trains an hour off peak and 13/14 an hour peak? All of which interconnect with the Jubilee Line. That's fantastic.
Cheers Lou!
"the last train leaves Canada Water BEFORE midnight " thunders Lou!
It leaves at 11:56pm you pedantic miseryguts.
And 11.56pm is before midnight, bozo.
Considering one of the few positive arguments in favour of this line was that it'd make it easier to get home late after a night out, it's pretty important to learn that no trains will run from connecting stations after midnight .
Yes, dumbass - I get that. I was merely highlighting the negative spin you seem so keen to attach to anything you write.
Imagine living with the miserable sod!
mmm, life with Lou.
As Charlie Brooker put it..I would probably enjoy it less than I enjoy eating wool.
And no direct service any more from Charing Cross - sorry, late in the evening I don't want to faff around changing trains in the hostile environment of London Bridge or going down into the maw of the even more hostile underground system to change at Canada Water when I used to be home in twenty minutes (including the walk up the hill).
Get Govia to forget their bottom line for a while and rewrite those franchise lets.
Hostile environment?
Come on, it is a train station not the excercise yard at Belmarsh.
It all gets a bit silly when suddenly Hackney isn't London and busy stations are described as hostile etc.
@ lou baker 15:21
"8 East London Line trains via nowhere useful to Dalston, 4 Southern trains to London Bridge."
I'm sure there are some north londoners taking exactly the same negative view as you "8 trains via nowhere useful to Crystal Palace". Or perhaps they're a pretty broad minded and think Brockley has something to offer.
Perhaps explore the areas surrounding each rail stop before you moaning like an old ... I'm sure you'll find there's something you like surely. Or is Brockley your nirvana?
Go on
Rats - answered DD and it's disappeared into the ether. So second attempt...
OK, "hostile" is an extreme statement but the point is that the underground and London Bridge are not busy at that time of night which can make either a bit bleak and/or uncomfortable. Also, especially for those using the first stop out of London Bridge, faffing around going up and down escalators/stairs and waiting for a connection doubles the journey time.
I also felt that, pessimist though he is, Lou should not be universally condemmed for redressing the balance slightly. Everything is not living up to its hype and why should those based around NXG be grateful for what is actually (unless you want to go to Dalston taking advantage of the northen extension) a worse service than before? Happy to sacrifice to the greater good of SE London generally where needful (which the axing of the Charing Cross service wasn't) but don't expect wild enthusiasm.
What's with this personal abuse of Lou. He's simply expressing things as he sees it. If you see it differently. Fine. Put your own point of view across without abusing people.
I agree Tamsin and Lou. The ELL extension was pitched as an addition to central London services not at the expense of (yes, I know Nick that you think the 2 are completely unrelated).
As for people In Dalston feeling that the ELL now goes to Crystal Palace via nowhere useful, that's completely true. Brockley, I'm afriad, if we're realistic is NOT a desitination unless you know someone who lives here or something. Someone in Dalston is unlikely to decide to head to Brockers for a night out on the tiles and that's completely fine.
Brockley has some nice little pubs, bars, cafes and shops now but they are pitched at locals. I'm happy with Brockley like that I don't want thousands of tw@ts from Dalston and Shoreditch coming down here for nights out!
Dalston on the other hand is gaining a connection where it didn't have one before, it hasn't lost other services at the same time as Brockley and other stations on the ELL route have done.
The only people who should be upset about the ELL reducing the frequency of Southern services are those who work within walking distance of London Bridge.
If your journey involves a change onto the Jubilee line at London Bridge then the total length of your journey will not be increased by using the ELL and changing at Canada Water. If you work at Canary Wharf then your journey time will be reduced by at least 10 minutes.
Most of those who work in the City will find that their journey time is reduced by staying on the ELL to Shoreditch High Street, changing to the DLR at Shadwell or the District line at Bank.
To hear people complaining about a frequency of 12 or 14 trains an hour is unbelievable. It's obvious that few of you have lived outside London. In most parts of the country, large cities included, 1 or 2 trains per hour is the norm.
why should I care about the people who live in New Cross? This is Brockley Central.
To answer the question specifically, it's approx 1 train every 4 minutes peak time, 1 train every 5 minutes most of the time off peak...
Plus of course, four more trains per hour to New Cross, if that's handy for you.
HH, I'm a brockley twat and want to be better connected to the rest of London.
It's not all about Dalston being the final destination.
Wapping is cool, nice northside river walk to greenwich
not to mention shoreditch great bars, great vibe, great shops spitalfields and all.
so it's not all bad yeah would be good for trains to run later but then it'll only encourage steaming gangs
@HH
yes let's stop the dalston tw@ts and shoreditch types coming south of river. wot with their funny ways n all that. Is this a blanket ban or are prejudices a bit more fluid? how u gonna police them.
And what you gonna do about the brockley tw@ts - ship them over north of the river.
u donut
@ anon 20:34
"why should I care about the people who live in New Cross? This is Brockley Central"
Yes quite right. Why should you care about people who live in new cross? Why should you care about anyone else apart from those live within the se4?
And why should I care about you when you get mugged when you venture outside your se4 bubble.
Lou is not a pessimist - just a realist.
Look, I've got nothing against Hackney. I've been a couple of times and haven't been stabbed yet.
But most of us don't work in Hackney. Most of us work in the City and West End - and this line makes those trips harder.
Yes you can change at Canada Water but that takes longer. That means it's not an improvement.
About Brockley not being a destination, well lets' just hope so. Let's hope druggies aren't attracted to the area because of its lax, semi-lawless ways.
Not the 'druggies' flooding into brockly argument again. Lou, even before the slight reduction in off peak trains became apparent you claimed that the ell was a bad thing. You're a stubourn bugger.
Lou, don't use that line then. It's not like we don't have other options. You brockleyites might not like to admit it but you live in Lewisham, and in Lewisham there are excellent services to ch x and the city. It's only a 15 min walk, for goodness sake.
And one can use Ladywell station too
"And why should I care about you when you get mugged when you venture outside your se4 bubble."
Oh okay, you've convinced me I should care. Good argument.
"Most of us work in the City and West End - and this line makes those trips harder."
Not according to the TFL Journey Planner.
Brockley to Charing Cross now takes 25-30 minutes around 8am.
Using the ELL it will be the same.
Brockley to Canary Wharf now takes about 25 minutes at 8am.
Using the ELL it will be considerably less - 15 minutes or under.
Lou, the change between ELL and Jubilee line at Canada Water is very quick. Much quicker than the schlep at London Bridge.
This means the total journey time is neither more nor less when compared to a journey changing onto the Jubilee line at London Bridge.
@tommo
The change is quicker at Canada Water but the journey to London Bridge via Canada Water is longer.
I understand we are only talking about a handful of minutes here. But 5 minutes extra each way each day is almost an extra hour commuting each week - two days per year.
This was sold to us as an improvement - and it's clear for most of us, most of the time, it isn't.
I don't even use the bloody line that much - I'm just sticking up for the poor misguided twits that do!
Who exactly are you sticking up for? From reading this site it appears most are in favour of the ELL.
It may not be a improvement for you but it is for others.
Lou, who is 'we'? I work at victoria, changing at Canada water will work fine for me so the ell line plus southern is great. Also be able to explore the the east end and eastern edges of the city for food/drink. Were you the caveman in the Rift Valley who, when his more adventurous pals decided to strike out for Europe, said - nah it's shit, nothing to do, freezing cold, no wildebeaste, and full of French.
@Lou
I see what you are saying but the only people whose journey time will be increased are those who walk to work from London Bridge.
For anyone who uses the tube it will not make a difference timewise.
Most of those who work in the city are better off than they are now by staying on the ELL to Shadwell, Whitechapel or Shoreditch High Street and changing to the District line or DLR if necessary.
Their journey time won't be increased at all if they just use Southern.
.... And if the southern train is full? Jump on the ell. See how it works?
Exactly. Everyone's a winner!
Care about those who use New Cross Gate (not New Cross a further seven minute walk away) because although called "Brockley Central" Nick's empire building is now extended to Nunhead and has always included Telegraph Hill in the strap-line.
The train times from Charing Cross to Brockley are now the same - but they weren't before 12th December last when there was still the late night and off-peak weekend direct services. An absolute boon to anyone taking children to the National Gallery or Trafalgar Square, going shopping in Covent Garden or to the theatre in the Strand of Shaftesbury Avenue.
Those travelling from NXG could get to Canada Water, Shadwell, Shoreditch and Wapping before the changes - and also be sure of a seat. So for us the ELL is not an improvement. Something that I totally accept, but bitterly resent being told by TFL and LOROL etc. that it is and we should be really, really pleased - as if we are not intelligent enough to see the truth.
@Tamsin - even for those who had access to the ELL before, it is a big improvement. More frequent trains, nicer trains, refurbished stations and many more destinations - including a new link to Highbury and Islington to come next year and one to Clapham Junction after that.
Of course it is neither perfect nor is the reduction of overland frequency acceptable, but it is the refusal of critics to acknowledge the very obvious improvements that rankles.
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