Lewisham Council responds to recent Brockley Cross incidents

Following the recent shootings, we contacted Lewisham Council to ask them if they had any response. Clearly, the relevant investigations are the responsibility of the police, but we felt it was important to know whether the incidents had registered with the Council and what they were doing to try to prevent similar incidents in future.

They responded with the statement below, which is relatively anodyne, but in the circumstances, it would be unreasonable to expect them to say much more at this point. We can at least be reassured that the Council is working with the police in light of recent events.

A spokesperson for Lewisham Council said:

“Recent incidents in the Brockley/Brockley Cross are, understandably, concerning to residents and businesses in the area. We would reassure residents that we are working closely with the police on a daily basis, sharing information and discussing various steps that we can both take to try to minimise crime, such as these shootings, in the local area. We know that the Brockley Safer Neighbourhood Team are keen to engage with local people and are walking the beat, providing a visible and reassuring presence on a daily basis for local people. We would encourage residents and businesses to talk to them about any concerns. They are there to listen to you."

84 comments:

tilt said...

What we nearly faced in Brockley this last last week.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/16/teenager-shooting-hackney-takeaway

Anonymous said...

No disrespect to the BSN Team but I can't see how a a couple of PCs and PCSOs, that have no real powers to arrest, are going to make much of an impact.

More to the point I can;t recall ever seeing one walking about. Maybe we should have a thread spot the pcso.

They look a nice bunch though. Tho more Trumpton or dixson of dock green than The Wire, or Cagney and Lacey.

So if you don;t know who they are then click here:

www.met.police.uk/teams/lewisham/brockley/

Anonymous said...

Firstly sort out the parking on Coulgate and around Brockley Cross. This should be done anyway, Hilary Alexander has been on a walkabout twice now, why this hasn't been sorted out or why we haven't been given an update on why it hasn't been sorted out is disappointing.

Longer term: More cultural, social and racial interaction.

Its very well not doing any harm in a community but its also disappointing that so many able, wealthy, skilled, networked, middle class members in this community don't use their resources to make things better for all.

patrick1971 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

I can't recall seeing them either. But I have walked past the entrance to Tickle Me three times in the past week and had 'Herb' smoke blown in my face... Obviously when people are happy to do something illegal (whether or not you agree or disagree, at this moment in time it IS illegal) in broad daylight, something ain't working. CCTV and MORE PATROLS

Anonymous said...

CCTV is pointless. All it does is record a few shadowy figures with their hoods up. What we need is to tinker with the ankle tags to that they send a mild electric shock if a kid breaks their curfew or go to areas where they're banned. Nothing too strong just enough to hurt.

Anonymous said...

Think of ways to end the cultural and social segregation in the area and you're part of the way to solving these problems.

More mixing, middle classes need to reach out and spread that middle class goodness.

Anonymous said...

What is middle class goodness?

Rather patronising.

And what's good about it, snorting coke at weekends, whlist wagging their fingers at the coke dealing crack dens round the corner bringing down house prices of their unimaginatively decorated homes in varying shades of white. Bribing the schools to get their kids into the best schools. pah

What makes you think people want to aspire to being middle class - just a very large group jostling for position lower middle class middle middle, and upper middle.

One of the few things and refreshing things the working class and the upper class have in common is they couldn't give a monkeys about class. They're not bothered - it's the middle class constantly keeping up with jones'.

TJ said...

Today at around lunch time I was offered drugs outside of the post office on Brockley Road. My neice, who was withdrawing some money was also offered drugs by the same guy. It wasn't a joke and he showed me what he was offering. Where are the community police, the real police or the safer neighbourhood teams?

Anonymous said...

That is utterly disgusting. What are the rules on citizens arrest?

Trixie said...

TJ, get over it! have you ever been to Camden or Brixton? or a music festival or Copenhagen or Amsterdam or New York? Happens ALL the time, you don't have to say yes... Did you seriously believe that Brockley was exempt from drug dealing?

Anonymous said...

How much were they asking?

Bea said...

Trixie - you miss the point, which was where were the police?! (And do they care about this kind of small fry anyway despite THREE (not two) separate incidents of shooting mentioned on this blog around Brockley station in the last couple of weeks?)

Yes, drug pushing happens everywhere but it shouldn’t. And anyone who takes or peddles drugs, irrespective of class or substance, is an enabler of violent crime both at home and abroad. Much of it is produced by poor third world communities intimidated by drug barons or local people growing cannabis in their front rooms or back gardens amongst the tomato plants (and not just for personal use). The latter intimidate their neighbours to prevent them from going to the authorities and can make life very unpleasant.

Just because many students think it’s cool to relax with a “harmless” splif or some middle class wannabe enjoys snorting coke does not make it right! If they thought about the misery that has gone into producing their habit they may want to stop buying Fairtrade too.

Trixie said...

thanks Bea, of course i missed the 'point'! how silly of me... Do you think that was the point made by TJ or were they merely reporting something that happened to them?
My 'point' was that Brockley is no worse than a lot of other places, in fact I've never been offered drugs on the street here but have been on numerous occasions in the places I mentioned.
Thanks for your enlightening post, I never knew that drug dealers were bad people until you told me, but now I'm enlightened.
Also, what's a 'middle class wannabe'? Is that someone who wants to be middle class or someone who's middle class who wants to be, what?

Bea said...

Trixie - get over it!

Trixie said...

Bea, how about you get over the fact that every time I post a comment you feel duty bound to patronise/contradict me! You're not my mum - why don't you go away or explain yourself? I'm tempted to do some fairtrade, organic weed now to chiilax...

Bea said...

Trixie - I know it's wrong of me but it's so tempting... every time I prod you poke back. The troll in me just can't leave well alone.

Here’s a patronizing tip … in the worlds of Desmond Tutu’s father “Don’t shout, refine your argument"

Trixe said...

Bea, It's strange though, it's like you've got nothing better to do apart from wait for my extremely infrequent posts - maybe you should concentrate on your yoghurt weaving more?
I think you'll find that the correct quote is "Don't raise your voice. Improve your argument." - which as I WASN'T SHOUTING may have made a tiny bit more sense - although my argument was as refined/improved as it needed to be to be an adequate response to your (self admitted) trolling post

TJ said...

Let me wade in - Trixie I don't give a damn if there is drug dealing elsewhere. I have never seen it on Brockley Road before. I resent that the dealer came up to both me and my neice (a minor) and offered us drugs. Brockley Road post office is not a festival, a club, or another well-known place to score drugs.

In light of the shootings I am even more suprised that this is happening especially as the council are trying to reassure us regarding police presence.

And do you know what, Trixie, your attitude has made me think - yeah Brockley can be exempt from it. And next tie it happens I won't 'Live and Let live' but I'll call the police and wait for them to come and arrest the guy.

Trixie said...

Ok then... good luck with that one. I'd be interested to know how quickly the police will respond! I actually said that I had never been offered drugs in Brockley, and I also never said that I approved of it happening, I'm just not delusional enought to believe I live in Dulwich Village. I love Brockley, but I love it pretty much as it is, I don't want any more economic migrants from N or W London, I don't think we need any more Delis, and if one guy, one time offering you drugs is freaking you out, then maybe you need to reconsider your postcode?
You live in an extremely deprived borough, there are many people in Lewisham who are living in actual, degrading poverty - maybe this one guy, one time offering you drugs has upset you, but as I said before, maybe you should get over it!

Bea said...

Trixie - believe me I am not waiting for your posts. It’s your take on issues that makes me want to respond to them i.e. your apparently laissez-faire attitude towards drug pushing on Brockley road. If you find that patronizing then refine your argument (which I don't think you have) and don't feel victimized if people don't agree with you!

Trixie said...

Bea, it's not laissez-faire... it's called being realistic.
I think being offered drugs in Brockley is quite unusual, I don't think it's right but at the same time I wouldn't feel threatened if it happened to me but then I don't feel intimidated by groups of young people outside chicken shops as many people on this blog seem to be.

TJ said...

So Trixie - let's boil this down - you think it ok for a minor to be offered drugs on Brockley Road? Some of us are bringing up families here, Trixie.

I've lived here for about 10 yrs. Don't think I should change my postcode because I don't agree with pushing drugs on Brockley Road.

I knew what Brockley was like when I first moved here - and you didn't get drugs pushed at you outside the post office in the middle of the day. I don't want to live in East Dulwich, nor do I want to make Brockley into East Dulwich - but it doesn't mean we need to have drugs on the street or the recent shootings either.

No-one is freaking out (except you). If we were to follow your laissez faire attitude (quite rightly put) then what sort of a community would we end up living in?

TJ said...

Oh - and also - no I don't feel threatened - never said I was. My neice however, did.

I think you missed the whole point of my thread. The council after the recent shootings are telling us that there will be more police presence - yet, for the first time I have been offered drugs on Brockley Road, during this period of vigilance.

Bea said...

OK - but I got the impression that TJ wasn't so much feeling threatened as outraged that despite the recent shootings drug pushing continues without any apparent action by the police. I suspect it's happening there as the post office now has a cash point.

And Lewisham Way / Upper Brockley Road is a 5 min walk away where there's frequent drug pushing also by the cash point outside Tescos. And that spot had a shooting a couple of winters ago.

I think Brockley is great too but as a resident of 5 years or more I think there is room for improvement, not least the (admittedly very minor) risk of being caught in the cross fire of some drug bust up.

pedant said...

If I were to be offered drugs in Brockley I'd be pretty p***ed off - it's a bad sign that someone feels this is an appropriate neighbourhood to do that.

PS TJ did no-one ever tell you - "I before E except after C"? Niece, not neice.

Trixie said...

Nah, not freaking out - just get fed up with whinging. Big fricking deal, you get offered drugs, and so did your niece, who as they were getting cash out I assume is not a child.
'Some of us are bringing up families' - sorry, i just don't care about that, and don't see the relevance, maybe the drug dealer had a family to support? would that have made you more sympathetic? ;)
The police wouldn't even bother coming out to investigate as they have, y'know, actual shootings to look into (although you prob would have been able to find a couple in the bakery or kebab shop next door)
I've lived here for over 25 years, therefore I win that competition.
:P

TJ said...

lol @ pendant - I'm afraid that I am a victim of spellchecker.

Trixie - it is SO not a competition. Let's agree to differ - you think it is ok, perhaps even a public service, to have a local dealer supporting his family on Brocley Road. You even think as long as someone is old enough to pull money from a cash point that ought to be an ok age to be offered drugs. You think it is whinging not to like this type of activity. You also seem to think it acceptable for someone to be suporting a family by drug dealing.

I don't.

Anonymous said...

Wow Trixie - a whole 25 years - didn't think you were that old!

Anonymous said...

Play play to Trixie for serving up a well-needed slice of realism.

The Deli brigade reside in their dreamworlds as always. It's all about lifestyle of course darling - as long as it's consistent with their lifestyle.

People can enjoy herbs that don't come from Shop On the Hill in a twee jar you know.

Anonymous said...

Anon at 15:09 - what a facile comment. Sadly the “realism” is all too frequently violence amongst the dealers and theft and other anti social and illegal behaviour by addicts. The fact that it is common and happens on our streets does not make it right nor should it be brushed off as lifestyle. Drug addiction causes pain and misery. My attitude may seem a middle class “dreamworld” to you but the reality is harsh - and I know this from personal experience where three very young children were left orphaned and all under the age of 7.

love detective said...

i think all posters on this thread are failing to see the elephant in the unimaginatively decorated living room here, i.e. one of brockley's biggest structural problems:-

a shortage of studio space for artists

This isn't a class war said...

Yes they can. They can also shove white powder up their noses. Wouldn't want either being offered to a minor on Brockley Road.

Nowt to do with delis.

Get Real.... said...

Its a pretty disgusting thing to happen and there is no justification for it, least of all the 'poverty card' which is used to justify all the anti-social behaviour in this Borough; "But he had to join the gang officer, he's had such a tough upbringing" - WHATEVER. Go to any other country to see actual poverty, Lewisham has nothing by comparison. Apart from some admittedly very poor asylum seekers, what we have are a bunch of chavs addicted to reproducing who then whinge about the consequences. In most developing countries the poor survive by working hard otherwise they starve, a concept lost on our 'poor' who just take take take.

Anonymous said...

Hey Love Detective: how is with drug dealing on Catford High Street; where you live?

Have you seen it, is it an issue?

Anonymous said...

Drug-dealing is anti-social behaviour. If you turn a blind eye to it, or decide to 'tolerate' it, it will proliferate and bring other, associated problems.

Those of you who use drugs need to bear that in mind, and also one other thing: drugs make you really, really boring.

love detective said...

"Hey Love Detective: how is with drug dealing on Catford High Street; where you live?

Have you seen it, is it an issue?"

yes it is an issue - see it all the time, anti-social scum the dealers and the users, actually got worse (in terms of its dispersal) since they closed down the rising sun pub which was effectively an open crack den pub - and as per usual the effects of things like this are felt disproportionately by those who have the least resources to deal with it, i.e. the wider working class communities where these activities are played on in, and who have to take the brunt of the fallout from, from dealers appropriating public spaces to addicts robbing flats & houses to feed their habbits, and the general sense of despair and abandonment that sustained drug use unleashes on communities, the actual experience, and fear of, crime turning many people into prisoners in their own homes (milford towers is full of people who are scared to go out after dark)

most on here don't seem able (or don't want to) to distinguish the former group (anti-social scum, along with benefit scroungers, parasites, etc..) here from the later (the wider working class, or the working poor if you will) and charge them all with the general crime of what effectively comes down to not being middle class enough for their liking - unfortunately life isn't quite as binary as that

Trixie said...

TJ, don't tell me what I think - especially when none of the things you said I think, I actually said. I just think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.
You and Bea were the ones that bought up how many years you'd lived here, so thought it was some kind of contest (which I would have won, had it been one)
and @ Get Real.... said... 'Apart from some admittedly very poor asylum seekers, what we have are a bunch of chavs addicted to reproducing who then whinge about the consequences'
Nice way to generalise people you've obviously got no idea about - which brings me back to one of the main problems I have with a certain type of people who read this blog - Classist, racist (try and tell me all this talk of chicken shops and gangs is not only refering to Black people), un-empathetic for anyone that isn't 'like you', intolerance of other people who have conflicting opinions to yours - All of this and yet I bet you all support charities and call yourselves liberals. I just hope you all are sending your kids to local primary schools with mixed intakes so maybe they'll have a bit more understanding of the area and of the diversity of the population once they're grown up...

Anonymous said...

On Brockley Road..... was that the old Rasta guy who makes a living selling parsley to students?

Bea said...

Wow Trixie - have you looked at that huge chip on your shoulder recently?!

I mentioned how many years I lived here to point out that I am familiar with Brockley and its issues and not some newcomer trying to radically turn it into East Dulwich (although I have nothing against East Dulwich).

You are the first one to mention “black” people and no I am not making any sweeping comments about them and yes my son does go to a local primary school with mixed race intakes and in fact he is of mixed race himself.

Headhunter said...

It's funny seeing through the eyes of others how things written here (or anywhere) can be interpreted. I had never considered that slagging off the proliferation of fried chicken shops in Brockley could be considered racism! Fascinating insight into how some people think...

Trixie said...

Bea,
- in what way do you think that my posts indicate that I have a 'chip' on my shoulder?
- If we're takling about chips, maybe you should have a little look at the colossal one you're staggering around under? I said "a certain type of people who read this blog" not "Bea says all these things"
- I know I was the first person to say anything about Black people specifically, that was actually my point, there's a lot a euphamisms about 'chicken shops' and 'Jerk' etc...
- I meant mixed intake in terms of all things i.e. class, faith etc not just race - maybe you could try actually reading things?
- And sorry, but 5 years means you are a newcomer, however I'm not saying that this is what makes your comments irrelevant

Anonymous said...

You might want to stop posting now Trixie - you're coming across as a bit of a fool.

drakefell debaser said...

On Brockley Road..... was that the old Rasta guy who makes a living selling parsley to students?

I know the guy you mean, he offered me something which resembled a handful of crushed flowers whilst waiting for the bus outside the Barge. He was in a hurry to get to the airport too, the jet setter.

Apparently in Camden Town the weed dealers sell packets of crushed up Holland & Barrat herbal tobacco to the unsuspecting tourists.

Bea said...

"have a chip on your shoulder

to be likely to become angry or offended very easily, especially about something that other people think should not upset you"

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/chip

Think that fits the bill in terms of response

P.S. The school is mixed class as well as race.

Anonymous said...

The references to fried chicken etc. on the blog are undoubtedly dog whistles to those with racist sympathies. They use dog whistles of course because they are easily (they think) defended.

Brockley Nick said...

Anon - I think they can be dogwhistly references, but there are also real problems with chicken bones being dumped on the pavements outside them, so it is perfectly legitimate to make references to such problems.

Homer S said...

Did someone say chips? Mmmmmm... Chips...

Trixie said...

Bea, but that's the crux of it, I'm not angry or offended (if you had the power to make me either of those things I'd be bloody worried!) I'm more just generally peeved. This whole thing came about because I thought people were over-reacting to something - that was my opinion - and you replied, as you have done before, in a deliberatly inflamatory way ("The troll in me just can't leave well alone.") Yet, I'm the one with a chip on my shoulder? Judging from your condescending tone and general waffling you're obviously quite a lot older than I am, maybe you should grow up?

Now Then. said...

Where are chicken shops mentioned P.C. anon. Not on this thread. Theres some talk of small fry but thats something else again..I think.

Bea said...

Trixie - OK I'll stop trolling. I keep replying to your comments in the knowledge that you will always respond with some antagonistic and (in my opinion) ridiculous comment.

I've had a few smiles out of this today. Work can be pretty mundane at times and this is a pleasant distraction.

But you're right, I should grow up and stop it. I’ll read the Daily Mail instead for my intake of nonsense instead. (Gasp, yes, I read that filthy rag - albeit on line).

Trixie said...

Bea, bless, you actually have a real problem with self control don't you?
To be honest by this point, all I can see when I read your posts is a fat woman with a pair of Thai Fishermen pants from Tradecraft going "meh meh meh meh meh meh meh"
Have fun reading the Mail, I wouldn't even give them the benefit of an addtional page view myself, but then there's only so many 'Britain's Fattest Cat' stories one person can take - that and the outrageous racism of course.

Get real... said...

Trixie- I am only intolerant of people whose behaviour impacts me; ie idiots throwing chicken bones on the street, or those little yellow boxes into my garden, or dumping a matress outside my house - all things which happen. I don't care if someones skin is blue and purple with polkadots, it's the ignorance and disrepect of others which I hate. I won't bother you if you don't bother me, but all too often these chavs do impact me. Why should I be tolerant of drug pushers regardless of their financial situation? There are plenty of jobs out there which this man could legitimatly do but he is just not interested. Why should I even give a toss about his family when he is trying to get mine to take drugs? I assume you are a customer of his or you wouldn't try to condone it.

Now Then said...

Any update on this chicken shop wolf whistle thing?

Bea said...

Trixie - are you being fatist?

OK, OK no self control - will promise to stop now...

Trixie said...

jeez, what's wrong with people today?
1. I said "maybe the drug dealer had a family to support? would that have made you more sympathetic? ;)" It was a tongue in cheek comment ffs, hence the divvy winky face.
2. At no point have I condoned drug dealing.
3. I also hate littering (chicken boxes included) never said that was ok either...
4. The council will come and get any dumped matresses - so chillax about that one.
5. Do you think all people who are poor are chavs? because that's the impression I got and that's what I was objecting to.

Anonymous said...

I was with bea until the Daily Mail thing. Mind you they do lovley stories about the Queen

Trixie said...

Bea, I don't think so no... In my head, you happen to be fat - no reflection on fat people in general. In fact some of my best friends are fat :)

Bea said...

... in my defence I did say the DM was nonsense ... but strangely compulsive - a but like Brockley Central (by that I mean the compulsive bit)

Anonymous said...

More offended at being accused of being a Mail reader than a fat racist, not an unreasonable position to take

Zammo said...

I don't think street peddlers, people that interrupt what you are doing to hawk their wares, of any kind are much liked, think chuggers, beggers, travelcard resellers, electoral canvassers, but drugs pushers are in a class of their own. If someone wants drugs, it should be, aproach the dealer, not the other way round.

I don't like the way Trixie is making out that TJ some kind of square because he doesn't his young relative being offered drugs in the street at midday. I think TJ experience is useful in underlining the level of disregard for the law that goes round here.

love detective said...

just say no!

Now Then said...

Trixie, if you'ld be so good, where is 'all this talk of chicken shops' you refer to?

Now Then said...

Exceptional hearing, these racist types!

Anonymous said...

Hilarious thread.
Time of the month ladies?

Anonymous said...

This has been very entertaining reading, thanks Trixie! I love how easy it is to wind people up on here (however much they might claim to be totally unaffected by others' criticism). Actually, I think Bea and Trixie kind of agree on most points (and I'm not sure who will be most irritated by that observation!), it's just that Trixie has an inflammatory style!

name said...

Two women have a rather witty exchange of views and someone pipes up with 'time of the month'.

Are we back in the 1990s?

Anonymous said...

nope the 70s, labour on a losing streak, rising unemployment, strikes, economy down the swannie.

It was a joke, I just wanted to see if they'd bite and what they'd say next. They might unite and become a latter day cagney and lacey.

Bea said...

Promised not to troll on this post anymore - you should have joined in earlier ....

the 70's said...

...and we got Thatcher who proceeded to murder kittens or some such

Anonymous said...

Bea and trixie I think you post ripostes via video blogcasts.

BBC 3 and 4 need something to fill up their schedules and it might make it worth paying the license fee.

Thoroughly entertained.

Maybe we should give you a topic once a week and let battle commence.

Headhunter said...

I'm still reeling from the shock that "fried chicken shop" is some kind of euphamism for black people... Is this something that everyone knows and I missed? I genuinely ask, why are these 2 things synonymous? Jerk chicken perhaps - it comes from Jamaica or wherever, but KFC? Fried chicken n chips???

the drugs don't work said...

Sounds like a bad trip - seeing fat people, racists and middle-class supremacists everywhere.

Now Then said...

H.H. I share your confusion. The word 'chicken shop' apparently is some sort of 'dog whistle' to other racists or so we're assured by Anon 17;06. The only trouble with that is that it hadnt been referred to on this thread. My attempts to find out where it has been used being to no avail we must assume that its not audible to any but racists.

TJ said...

I love Brockely Central, it is the only blog where you can post that someone offered you drugs on the street and you weren't too happy; and end up with insinuations that you are a racist; by people who have no knowledge of you, your background or the fact that you are in a mixed race relationship.

All joking aside Trixie seriously needs to grow up.

Or maybe just post more often so we can all have a good laugh

Anonymous said...

To go back to the topic, has anyone seen an increase in a police foot patrols?

Anonymous said...

The only time I have ever been in a fried chicken shop, i did happen to be the only white person in there. Apart from my husband. Hence it must be true that only black people go into fried chicken shops.

drakefell debaser said...

Small point, but as you and your husband went into one it kind of leaves your assumption a bit threadbare, don't you think?

Anonymous said...

Yes indeed, that was kind of the point of my nonsensical statement. I have to say, though, black, white, brown or blue, you'd have to be desperate (as I was that day) to eat that stuff. It's gross.

Anonymous said...

I think the Rasta guy who sells herbs to students is a local fixture.

Whether it is parsley, I have my doubts, I suspect it is oregano.

This being Brockley, there is no convenient Neals Yard Emporium to provide a ready supply of a herbal cocktail that could pass for the wacky baccy gullible students crave from time to time.

Seize the opportunity said...

Sounds like local Brockley enterprises could try some synergistic mergers!

Organic weed sold in twee jars from Shop on the Hill
1kg Fairtrade coke + baguette special from the deli
M-Cat from Cat Man
Hilly Field Mushrooms

Mezzer said...

That old rasta guy was picking sprigs off my Rosemary bush in the front garden until I yelled at him to stop last year. So I think I can clear up what was being sold!

Erin Brock said...

I asked him if he had any shamrock when he tried to sell me some greenery back in March. Response wasn't too good.

Anonymous said...

Dealing - nice. Maybe that's what the dodgy guy standing round on manor avenue was trying to do last night about 8pm, calling me and later my neighbour to come over and have a quiet word! Then I got home to find one of the locks on my front door was broken.

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