Living The Dream: Brockley to Dalston in 30 Minutes Or Less

Yes, it's true - BrockleyCentral was among the first lucky people to make the journey to Dalston Junction this morning on the newly-opened London Overground service.

It was a beautifully smooth ride, marred not at all by the fact that the train arrived 8 minutes late. And we greatly enjoyed the tea and cake afterwards at the Broca (which opened early to celebrate).
Here are some pictures from our adventure ...




Celebratory balloon entrance at Brockley Station




We have a service noticeboard, just like everyone else!




The sun shines on the first Overground train to arrive at Brockley



The first northbound train from Brockley Station



"The new Dalston Junction to West Croydon line is now open"




Approx 25 mins after leaving Brockley, we were in Dalston.




The lovely Overground roundel




The retro seat fabric

155 comments:

Marmoset said...

Ah, I was wondering why there were balloons up at the entrance to Surrey Quays station. Memory like a sieve....

Anonymous said...

made the journey this morning for a quick foray around brick lane. great journey, lovely air con (particularly on a day like today) and after a seamless 17 minutes was in the heart of the hippest part of town.loved it.

Monkeyboy said...

I think my train is full of croydonistas. Loosers.

Anonymous said...

We went on a fanily trip to the flower market in Columbia Road. A very smooth ride but Shoreditch gave me a headche - full of drunks and people selling rubbish on the pavement. South London 3 East London 0.

Anonymous said...

Only saw one drunk bloke sellin stuff, the old bill moved him on. It's London it happens. That whole area of London is now easily available, in fact not much more hassle than Greenwich. I know where I'll be crimbo shopping.

Brockley Kate said...

Considerably less hassle to get to than Greenwich, I'd suggest! There aren't even any direct buses from most of Brockley that go to Greenwich.

Anonymous said...

Yes Brockley Kate is right its usually a walk to Deptford Bridge and then the DLR which can be quite expensive. I was being a bit harsh about Shoreditch earlier. Columbia Market was very busy but we did buy lots of plants. Maybe next time we will go to Brick Lane (so I can visit Rough Trade East).

Sevenoakser said...

My first voyage to work at Shadwell - and realise that I'll now only have to pay out for a Zone 2 ticket, instead of Zone 1 for the walk from London Bridge. Quicker AND cheaper! Result. And so nice and orange. Loved the balloons!

Brockley Nick said...

27 minutes door-to-door from Green Park to Brockley, including the easiest interchange anywhere on the tube network and ELL trains are great for buggies (and the bikes that lots of people wanted to take today).

Never would have managed that via London Bridge.

Monkeyboy said...

I'm actually looking forward to work tomoz to see how it compares. Will be comparable time but the change at Canada water is a winner. Might be quicker too? I was delayed by a few mins traveling back today due to "congestion in the brockley area" hopefully that's only a temporary settling in problem.

Lou, try the east end. Loads of stuff To see and do and hardley any crack dealing crusties.

Anonymous said...

to be pedantic I think the Euston Northern line to Victoria line interchange is easier and might just be the easiest on the network but i take your point.

(for those who don't know - the train doors open and you walk forward 30 paces - and that's pretty much it, you're on the platform - no stairs, escalators and often you simply walk straight onto the connecting train)

Brockley Hillbillies said...

Took the gorgeous ELL to Hoxton to buy plants at Columbia Rd Market. We could hardly contain ourselves ooohing and ahhing for most of the journey at the wonderful views high up over the city. The new station at Hoxton was very impressive and it took 5 minutes to get to the flower market.

Lou Baker said...

Sigh.

It'll all look very different on a cold December evening when your ELL train is packed, late and going nowhere because of a signal fault at London Bridge.

Still, at least we have direct links to London's stabbing capital. There's no need to slash my own neck when there are plenty of hoodie wearing thugs who'll do it for me. And I can now get to them without changing trains. Bonus.

Nick said...

Am I alone in thinking that the East London Line train announcements say "Arkley" instead of "Brockley?"

Maiden Voyager said...

Nick, I thought I was going mad but I heard the same thing tonight. Meanwhile a few teething problems on the later southbound trains - none of the departure boards at the stations were working properly. All had the wrong destinations AND the wrong times. But cheery train driver was making tireless announcements to try to de-confuse people (unlike Shadwell station staff I must say). Meanwhile: one Shadwell lift already out of order, and one southbound train stopped and then drove off before anyone could get on (though only a New Cross one). Also, felt a bit left out of things and forlorn with a 20min wait between trains going beyond New Cross.

However, overall - an amazing improvement of my own commute, and felt especially un-real tonight alighting from a shiny tube-style train onto my own trusty Brockley station.

Tamsin said...

Definitely "Arkley" - rather sweet. And the train I was on this afternoon was on the destination boards at Canada Water as "West Croydon", described over the tannoy as "New Cross" (although I had just alighted from one of those) and arrived bearing the words "Crystal Palace". What was said inside the train as well, although, come Surrey Quays, it suddenly did something quantum and became a train for West Croydon instead.

Still fun - my other half stopped off to explore Brick Lane on the way back for a close view of what was happening there - with the heat, the population in their best saris etc. for the festival, the smells of the open curry houses (and a little bit from the drains) he felt he was in Delhi.

Also a nice few of the trains at roof level on the end of the redundant track at Broad Street.

Anonymous said...

there will be teething problems i imagine, but who cares what people like Lou say? The trains are here to stay, we've got them, so tough, use them or don't.

Anonymous said...

On one hand you say the service goes nowhere useful, then you say it will be packed, if it's packed presumably people are on it because they want to use it so that argument gies in the bin.

If there are signaling probs at LB Sourhern services will defo be affected, ell services may be but may not depending on the problem. Win.

Stabbing? How many middle class commuters get stabbed on the way to work?

Your arguments are becomming increasingly desperate.

Mb said...

Sat at my desk. Took about the same time but much less hassle. None of that faffing at lb and managed not to get stabbed. IN YOUR FACE LOU!

Brockley Kate said...

Oh god, who let Lou onto this thread?!

Anonymous said...

I didn't get it this morning but I'm keen to know how crowded the trains were at rush hour, how quickly the station cleared, etc. What it was like basically.

M said...

Christ. Imagine old Optimistic Lou at his wedding. "Yes, my wife looks beautiful today ladies and gentlemen but imagine her at 6am on a cold winter's morning with no make up on. Hideous."

Brockley Nick said...

I'd be interested to hear from people who didn't take the ELL today. Did it make the overland trains any less crowded?

Brockley Kate said...

I was at Brockley Station early this morning, and it seemed much more chilled than before - people weren't turning up for a specific train, and didn't have to peg it up the stairs and across the bridge if they saw it pull in, because they knew another one would be along soon.
Also trains half-empty, with lots of seats available.

Would be interested to know whether this was also the case in the 8-9am rush hour ...?

Brockley Kate said...

We need to sort out vocabulary out! Overland = the old ELL service ('the orange ones'). The ELL is a redundant term. So what shall we call the non-Overland services?! 'The green ones'?!

Brockley Nick said...

My preferred vocab is this:

Green ones = trains
Orange ones = tube

Anonymous said...

Trains = Louzers
overland = coolers

Brockley Kate said...

@Nick - so when you said 'overland trains', you meant 'trains'?! This 'Overland' business is very confusing ...

cooler said...

amazing how much difference the air-con makes, especially in weather like this. these trains feel like colour tv compared to the black and white ones...

Brockley Kate said...

I think I love the seating, not sure whether I'll feel the same when it's really packed and everyone has to stand - but on the other hand, it should be a lot easier to get off than it is on the old trains, where you practically have to climb over the seats when it's busy.

Brockley Nick said...

@Kate - yes, I meant the old trains. In theory, they should be less crowded now there are more trains on the line. Is that the case?

The Oracle said...

I've got foreign visitors arriving, and I am going to have a bit of a problem telling them which is which. (Perahs a vote and submissions, Nick...?) So, here goes...

The London Bridge Train:

The London Bridge Train,
The LB,
The InterLondon,
The Old Overground,
The Train That's Always Late,
The We Are Sorry To Announce.

The East London Line:

The above,
The ELL,
The Overground,
The Tube Overground,
The Orange Overground,
The Orange.
The Jaffa, etc.

Brockley Kate said...

I reckon orange and green are easiest!

(Nick - dunno, haven't been on at rush hour yet)

Tamsin said...

@M - but you do have to think of the down times - know what your wife will look like with a cold in the head and no make-up (or you are headed for divorce) and be aware that the planners and architects will try to bamboozle you pictures of their buildings and public piazzas with happy people in the sun-shine - and you need to think of how it will work in a cold, wet November after the pastel cladding has had a few years of mucky London rain.

Tamsin said...

"we're sorry to announce" is a bit ambiguous - they were sorry to announce yesterday morning that the very first Orange/Overground train was late.

(Sh*t) Southern and LOROL (as in lorol, loral laughs...)

Bea said...

Used the "orange one" this morning and it was a delight (despite being 4 mins late - which meant I made it having arrived one minute late on the platform).

I had been using them from New Cross Gate all last week too but it was amazing to be able to get on at Brockley. Travel time is now 13 minutes compared to the old 30 minutes!

The train was full (i.e. all the seats were taken and people were standing (this was at 08:12) but by no means packed - despite being only four carriages. So lots more space for when it becomes more established.

The seats are no harder than on a bus and the air con was bliss. The best part will be returning this evening! It used to take me up to an hour to get home (less frequent trains from LB the later it gets) and in weather like today would have been hell. This evening I should be home in a flash beautifully chilled both because of the speed and ease of travel and the air con. The “orange ones” get a big thumbs up from me.

Andy Endwell said...

I went down to the station at 0815 to find a que at the ticket machines as only one was working and that was not accepting cards! I caught an Orange one to NXG and found it very pleasant, however NXG was replete with grumpy looking folk waiting folornly for the next London Bridge service, when it showed up it was packed but everyone at NXG managed to get on. I took exception to the Overground twerps bellowing at us through loud hailers to "stand behind the yellow line" though the completely incomprehensible gentleman on the tannoy was rather amusing.

Paddyom said...

Had a call from my other half at 9am to say the London bound platform at Brockley station is mobbed with no ELL trains running at present and 15 min delays on Southern. Oooopsss - seems there were some teething troubles today during rush hour....

Brockley Kate said...

Oh dear! Can't find anything about it on the TFL travel updates. Here's a whinge: Overground is poorly-defined (half-tube, half-rail) and therefore very difficult to find on the TFL website. It's technically rail, but they don't have live updates on there - so does that mean we should check the National Rail website for service delays, etc? But that would be ridiculous, no?

Mb said...

The Jaffa! The biscuit/cake controversy reflects the tube/train debate. Or the Marmite? some people hate it, some love it

Anonymous said...

Lou cut the signaling cables.

Paddyom said...

Yeah hopefully it was just a temporary issue this morning.

The only comment I have is that I went to Shoreditch yesterday and found it hard to gte back to the station afterwards in terms of knowing where the entrance was. They should signpost it more off Commercial Rd and Brick Lane as its very hidden away and seems to lack prominence.

One good thing i noticed on the Bakerloo line this morning was that those "Central London Tube Maps" dotted around now show Brockley. I assume that will be on every underground line which is a good advert for our existence.

Headhunter said...

I think I'll stick to the bike...

Anonymous said...

My southern train had loads of empty seats this morning. Just in time for summer - no more crowding onto a packed, sweaty train with inconsiderate passengers fainting all the time!

Paul

stunned said...

My train was late, the station was manic, loads of announcements, people, it felt like being a Clapham Junction. Glad it's here, It's an adjustment however. Hopefully ELL is a catalyst to improve the train services I rely on and have done for years.

Westsider said...

@Andy it makes a big difference to your london bridge journey. trains are less full, you don't have to worry you won't be able to get on the train and when a train's cancelled, you can jump on an ell train, connect to jubilee at canada water and get there in the same time it would take you to catch a train.

Headhunter said...

Well look at the disaster with Heathrow Terminal 5. Expect a nightmare for about 6 months before they start to get their acts together. Good excuse to be late to work....

Matt-Z said...

Glad it's finally up and running. There are bound to be a few hitches while the service beds in. Off topic my bike journey was great this morning, mainly because the temporary lights have gone from Brockley Cross. A lot of people want changes to the traffic system there, but if/when something does get done it will need to be very carefully thought out. The temporary lights casued chaos for three weeks.

Brockley Nick said...

@matt z I had the same experience and do agree with your point, but a couple of differences:

1. That was a major obstruction - no-one would propose anything remotely as disruptive.

2. Because it was only temporary, people don't change their approach. They just think to themselves - oh well, I have a couple of weeks of traffic jams - maybe it will be finished today. A permanent change to road systems obviously forces people to rethink.

Brockley Kiwi said...

I never really got it when people complained about the Brockley transport links. I've lived in many areas of London and Brockley by far and away had the most options. Direct trains to LB, DLR to canary wharf, trains to Victoria or Blackfriars via Nunhead (even Luton & Bedford but who'd really want to go there?) ... all within an easy and pleasant 15 minute stroll from most places in SE4.

But ... my god... after this weekends ELL launch I feel like I live in the centre of the world. Viva la Brockley!!

Anonymous said...

traffic lights are not the answer to brockley crosses problems. There are too many roads so it takes too long to wait.

Brockley Nick said...

Agreed, don't think anyone's suggested traffic lights.

Anyway, there are other threads for this discussion. Click on Brockley Cross in the label cloud below and you'll find them.

Tamsin said...

As long as it doesn't force people to re-think through undesignated purely residential roads and off the B roads which presently converge on Brockley Cross.

welcome to 2010 said...

Down your road you mean tamsin, yes we get it. This thread is about the ELL isn't it?

M said...

Cheer up Tamsin - the sun's out and you're not dead yet!

Tamsin said...

Yes, it is about the ELL not Brockley Cross - so briefly, no, not down my road (that probably won't happen) but please not along the road with the community centre, cafe (due to open in the summer) and school on it and nursery nearby.

And even if it is my road I'm protecting - why not? We deliberately did not buy into a road with busy traffic. Those who live and work on district distributors know what they are letting themselves in for.

As Matt Z said, it does need to be carefully thought out.

Anonymous said...

Yawn.

Headhunter said...

I think we're done gushing about the ELL/Orange line/Overground/whatever, what's happening at Brockley X? I haven't been round there for a week or so. Last I looked there was a bit of roadworks, I assumed it was just something to do with Thames Water replacing the pipes...

Brockley Nick said...

Good to see you're as engaged in the world outside Manor Ave as ever HH. Major gasworks around Brockley Cross for three weeks, causing daily disruption. But the traffic problems are over now.

Headhunter said...

Ooh, bitchy! I just don't go that way. I know what's happening through Telegraph Hill on the other hand. There are roadworks along Queen's Rd and along New Cross Road.... Still. They dug up New Cross Rd earlier in the year, then reopened it, only to dig it up again a couple of months later. There, I do know the world outside Manor Avenue. Sorry, don't have time for random strolls round Brockley every week of the year.

Anonymous said...

May i suggest a course in time management?

Headhunter said...

No. I work 50-60 hours a week (well, by work I mean some of that time is frittered away making comments here...), go to the gym 3-4 times per week, cycle 120 miles per week, go to the pub a few nights per week and sleep 7 hours-ish per night. There is no time left to manage.

Anonymous said...

Just by looking at that I can see you're working too much. You need some YOU time. It's okay to cry sometimes too when you're a man.

The cycling is bad for your balls too.

Matt-Z said...

With new and possibly exiting people coming to the area beacuse of the ELL/Overground/Tube/Train/Derek, the upgrading of the station (including disabled access and West-side entrance), Coulgate Street improvements/part pedestrianisation, parking issues and the bigger Brockely Cross problem all need to be looked at as connected issues. I worry that Osbourne's cuts will minimise the changes of any major surgery happening to any of the above for some years to come, and people will have to join/leave the new trains from ever more difficult to negotiate, car-laden streets.

Anonymous said...

the west side access is a big issue at the station yet I don't hold out much hope for it to happen soon...

drakefell debaser said...

I used the ELL on Saturday to get to London Fields and it was brilliant – quick, air conditioned, new clean seats, enough space to swing a panther etc.

Unfortunately we arrived just in time to see a large part of London Fields turned into a crime scene because a man was shot in the stomach. Nothing was going to spoil the day though and we enjoyed a free festival put on by Hackney Borough Council with various live acts and some stupidly expensive ostrich burgers for munchies.

My only gripe with the ELL is that whilst the new stations are great and the old ELL stations have been refurbished to a good standard, stations like Brockley appear to have had drawn the short straw.

Headhunter said...

I wonder if we could do a "ganster exchange", the ones from East London could come to Brockley and the ones from Brockley go to East London. It might be nice for them to get out a bit.

drakefell debaser said...

Well, touch wood, ours don't seem to be very good at aiming so I would prefer the status quo in that resepct.

Blunderbuss said...

All these people saying they're looking forward to visiting Shoreditch and Brick Lane are acting as if they were on the other side of a demarcation zone, rather than a 10 minute train ride to LB and another 15 on one of the several buses that go there.

Used to go all the time, yes the ELL takes about 10 minutes off the journey time, but come on if you couldn't be bothered to go up there before it probably says more about you than the new ELL...

Anonymous said...

nope you're wrong there- last month i made that exact journey and the bus from London bridge took 40 minutes.

Blunderbuss said...

Well obviously traffic dependant, but out of rush hour it's quick, to support my case tfl website says it's a 20 minute journey...

Anonymous said...

yeah that's lovely but my comment stands.

Brockley Nick said...

@Blunderbuss

OK, so...

- 10 mins to London Bridge
- 5 mins interchange at London Bridge
- 20 mins (on a good day) by bus (another fare) to Shoreditch High St
- TOTAL = 35 mins + two fares and a lot of faffing around

vs

- 15 mins direct service to Shoreditch High Street, one fare, no faffing.

And you wonder why people are pleased.

Brockley Nick said...

i do apologise Blunderbuss, the direct train is 17 mins now.

The Cat Man said...

I went to shoreditch on sunday - have to say, it resembled something like oxford street on a saturday - far far too busy!!

go to hoxton, its much more chilled out there, reminded me of somewhere like camden before it got too commerical

Anonymous said...

5 minutes interchange is very much an ideal scenario too. my experience is you usually join a huge queue and often have to wait for the second bus.

Anonymous said...

Got to Brockley station c.9am this morning. Trains all had delays but it didn't really matter as all i noticed was that there was a train every few mins. Southern train turned up 2mins after I arrived then ELL turned up 2 mins later....got a seat, spacious, air-con, got off at Shoreditch to a corker-looking station and nattily-dressed staff. Viva Brockley and the ELL indeed!

Georgina said...

Viva Brockley - definitely. Just moved into the area and I'm so delighted that the new ELL puts the Jubilee to shame. (I thought that was the zippiest line. Ha!) Put a smile on my face going to work and I don't say that too often...

Healosh said...

I've been a 'lurker' on here since moving to Brockley two and a half years ago. Although I enjoy a good read of everybodies comments nothing has made me share my thoughts... until today! Took an orange one to Shoreditch for pleasure yesterday, and to Holborn for work today and it was BRILLIANT. I can't quite believe the cynicism of some people saying this is a bad thing... or even not much of a good thing!

Brockley Kate said...

Welcome Healosh :)
Thanks for commenting! (Same to you all, in fact)

Blunderbuss said...

Maybe you want to tell TFL about this increase to 17 minutes as they still have it down as 9!

Yes I'm not denying that it's obviously easier, but if people can't face a half hour journey to one of the most vibrant areas of London then how much of the city are people really getting out to see.

Getting one train and one bus is hardly 'a lot a faffing around' and much less hassle than a lot of tube journeys, like changing lines at Bank for example.

I guess if the ELL stops people from becoming 'Little Brockleyers' that can only be a good thing...

Brockley Nick said...

@blunderbuss - I meant the ELL to Shoreditch is 17 mins.

As for faffing, if you don't do the journey normally, you have to work out the best route, find the right bus stop, walk 2-3 mins through the station to the bus station, hope there's a bus along soon, hope that it's not too crowded and then pray that there's not too much traffic, etc.

I guess the point is that there are lots of great parts of London, so you tend to go to the ones that are easiest to reach...

Hackney was relatively inaccessible. Now it isn't.

Blunderbuss said...

Maybe you want to tell TFL about this increase to 17 mins as they still have it down as 9!

I'm not denying that it's obviously easier. But if people can't face a half hour journey to one of the most vibrant parts of London, then how much of the city are they really getting out and seeing.

Getting one train and one bus hardly counts as 'a lot of faffing around, and is much easier than a lot of tube journey's, like changing lines at Bank or Bond Street for example.

If the ELL stops people for becoming 'Little Brockleyers' that can only be a good thing...

Anonymous said...

How you can compare a direct line into the eastend to an lb schlep is beyound me. The fact that it isn't obvious says a lot about you

Brockley Kate said...

Let's face it, whatever the pros and cons of the relative journey times, the main factor is that London Bridge is hell on earth in the mornings during rush hour. When 2 or 3 trains get in at once and they don't open the barriers and the crowds back up all the way down the platforms, it takes nearly as long to get out of the station as the train journey itself!

Blunderbuss said...

Sorry don't know why that went up twice...

Well maybe having areas that people have to think about getting to is a good thing, keeps the undesirables away.

Not sure how the innocents of Hackney will react to the unleashing of the denizens of Brockley...

Headhunter said...

Blunderbuss - Even I, one of the ELL's greatest naysayers can see that you're on a losing streak. perhaps if you pop to Shoreditch or Hoxton mid afternoon every now and then, the trip via London Bridge may be fine, but if you commute there day in, day out, twice a day at peak times, I can very much see why you might welcome the ELL with open arms

Blunderbuss said...

Look my point was that people on some of the many ELL threads on BC had said they were now looking forward to visiting Shoreditch and Brick Lane as if they'd never set foot in them before.

I was pointing out that these places were only half an hour away anyway and so actually fairly easy to get to already if you wanted to, although the idea of getting a train and a bus in one journey seems to be a concept beyond some people.

Yes it's better and quicker and if you commute there I'm sure your life is now 17% better and all the rest. But for the casual visitor there was no reason not to go before other than laziness...

Anonymous said...

I quite like the idea that the worst torture Satan could come up with for us mere mortals in this 'hell on earth' is to make us stand in a queue for 10 minutes!

Anonymous said...

my life is actually 18 percent better now thank you.

mellow yELLow said...

I guess it's just a personal preference - some people like Blunderbuss don't mind spending an extra 10 or 15 minutes travelling from A to B, and standing around waiting for buses; others (like me) have a strong preference for keeping journey times to a minimum and doing other things of their own choosing with that extra time. Each to their own.

Anonymous said...

Well, on my first foray in the ELL, I decided to go to Camden. Nice ride to Dalston Junction, but where is the overground link to Camden?

A walk down the street to Dalston Kingsland and to my dismay, it is shut - no trains. Come back at the end of the month...

However, wandering around Dalston, I found the Ott cafe, which seems quite funky and has live entertainment of an international sort.

So, as jumped on a bus to Camden, I thought Dalston is worth investigating. It seems to be a bit like Deptford but with a great deal more actually happening.

Anonymous said...

Overtube!

name said...

I like it very much, a few teething troubles on my journey home. There was a lineside fire (probably to do with the hot weather today or something) so I didn't quite get to Brockley on the o/g, I hopped off at NXG and onto the train from LB. But good fun, nice and airy not overly packed.

The service itself is more trainlike than tube but it's definitely a hybrid.
In our house we call the "og" pron. oh-gee.

Peps Pepper said...

I'm made up about the Orange ones.

I thought, "Yeah, that'll be nice, I'll be able to pop up to Shoreditch and pass myself off as a Twat at the weekends". Actually, it turns out that it's an easy way to get to my workplace near Waterloo. The change at Canada Water is easier than the change at London Bridge and reduces the journey time a little bit.

I opted for Silver (Jubilee line) plus Orange on the way home tonight too- around the time of the trackside fire delay. A Green one caught us up at NXG and there was a rush as about 50 fools swapped their Orange one for the Green one, only to find that the Orange one left first! I was one of those fools. I got my regular bouncy Green ride in to Brockley.

Anyhow, I tend to the view that we should be on a "line" on the Overground, just as there are lines on the Underground. There are enough different bits of the Overground now. The best name I can muster is the "Eastern Line". Hardly different to the East London Line but definitely cooler and somehow more appropriate now that Croydon is connected to it! And once it's linked up to Clapham it would be as merrily partial and misleading as the Northern Line.

Sparrow said...

Well, anon, Dalston wasn't anything like you describe back in the day I lived there! However, am glad it has changed for the better. The best thing about living round there then was being able to get the routemaster no 38 all the way home from Piccadilly.

Brockley Nick said...

I tried out the 8.17 southern service today. It was certainly less busy than the trains used to be around that time, in that you could get on any of the carriages and there was some space to move.

Brockley Kate said...

You must have left just before me, Nick! I got the 8.22am Overground service. It was busy, definitely, but there was room to stand unimpeded. The change-over at Canada Water was seriously crowded though! There was a massive queue backing up around the escalators, and the Jubilee Line trains were totally packed. I think this bit of the route has already reached capacity, just two days after launching!

Brockley Nick said...

I guess it will be like that until the Jubilee Line upgrade is finished, hopefully Oct / Nov.

Brockley Kate said...

Is that the longer trains? They're definitely needed.

Brockley Nick said...

More frequent. The plan is to:

"increase capacity by 33 per cent and to cut journey times by around 22 percent."

Anonymous said...

Got the Orange one today just after 8.30. Was a bit disappointed at the speed between New Cross and Surrey keys - we did a go slow and it took about 10 mins. Quick interchange at canada water but one escalator is probably not going to be enough in the future - was very crowded.

Mostly good though - the air con shouldn't be underestimated. I just wish the trains were a little quicker - i.e. as fast as the jubilee line. All delays at Brockers but it made little difference because of the frequency.

The Cat Man said...

I got the orange one today as well, just passed 8.30 - I thought it was good - got out at Wapping, really pleasant walk to my office at st katherines docks!

Also noticed the train delays but the frequency made it irrelevant!

Headhunter said...

Everyone keeps going on about air con. Southern trains to London Bridge (and previously Waterloo and Ch X) have mostly been air conned these days IME, although I only take trains off peak, perhaps they reserve some of the older stock for commuters at peak times.

Andy Endwell said...

Well it gets worse - I decided to try the jubilee/ell on the way home - first off I discovered that my 7 day return is not accepted on that route, which I find outrageous! The jubilee line was foul, on reaching Canada Water I jumped on the ELL to discover that the much vaunted aircon had packed up and it was hotter on the train than it was outside this was capped off by being thrown off at Surrey Keys as they decided to terminate the service - next up was a Crystal Palace service which also had no aircon and which proceeded at walking pace to NXG and finally Brockley where I was bloody glad to get out. This much vaunted new service is CRAP!! I have also heard a dark rumour that Southern are contemplating axing the London Bridge Victoria service!!

Anonymous said...

yeah not all the Southern trains are air conned. very few.

Anonymous said...

yeah not all the Southern trains are air conned. very few.

Anonymous said...

The ell aircon is slightly better although apprently broke down on one of the trains yesterday

Anonymous said...

Andy, if you buy the wrong ticket that is your mistake and one bad trip does not make a crap service.

Headhunter said...

I can imagine that changing and hanging around at Surrey Quays will become an increasing inevitability. Especially after the 2012 link to Clapham Junc opens, there simply won't be enough space on the line to run a Tube like service through Surrey Quays and out along the Brockley line AND through Peckham, Denmark Hill etc

Brockley Nick said...

@HH - on what basis do you make that claim?

Anonymous said...

another fantastical sweeping statement from the HH.

Monkeyboy said...

I don't know anything about cycling or physics but I do not believe balancing on two wheels to be a practical means of transport, or indeed possible.

Matt-Z said...

HH is wrong, there are sufficient paths through the core section for at least an additional 4 trains per hour to Clapham Junction. It will give a train every 4 minutes down the core section and 4 trains per hour to each of the four southern branches.

Headhunter said...

Yes, just a general comment, a thought, musing if you will... Wondering what people think, hence the starting few words "I can imagine". I didn't realise that we only every post hard facts and statistics on this site... If anyone else has other thoughts and believes that congestion around Surrey Quays will not be an issue then I'm listening.

Headhunter said...

Matt Z - There we go. Thanks. So apparently there is capacity.

Anonymous said...

I'm just wondering if the 'aircon not working' is actually 'aircon turned down too low' as it seems to have been a fairly common experience yesterday.

Did any of you have a pleasantly cool journey home yesterday afternoon/evening on the overground? If so, roughly what time?

Q said...

@tamsin. "And even if it is my road I'm protecting - why not?"

Because you are always trying to redirecttraffic away from your road - and in the most furtive manner.

Why should the residential roads off Brockley Cross get this increasing traffic. We need to stop up Geoffrey Road (at the top) and Ashby Road (at the Top), and Manor Avenue (at its north easterly corner). Other residential roads should follow. That should keep traffic to B roads.

Brockley Nick said...

@Q - there are two separate issues with regards to the Brockley Cross layout and although they are related, it's important not to confuse them:

1. The junction can be improved without changing the distribution of traffic down any given road. This is the uncontroversial bit. In other words, we improve crossings, widen pavements, replace the double roundabout with an alternative system and re-examine parking space at the junction. This is what the Council is currently doing.

2. Measures could be taken to change the traffic flow. Possibly in the way you suggest, possibly in other ways. This would be very controversial (and indeed has already caused a lot of heated argument on BC at the very whiff of a suggestion that this could be considered). The Council has no plans to do this.

Mb said...

Ignore me, I'm being a smart arse.

Andy Endwell said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Andy Endwell said...

Anonymous - If I bought the wrong ticket that would be my mistake! However for the last seven years I have, each week, bought a seven day London return as I did yesterday. I find it outrageous that though I made the same journey (Brockley to London Bridge) That I have always done, my ticket is not valid Via ELL! One bad and overpriced trip does make a crap service, particularly as it has userped the one I have been used to.

Anonymous said...

Andy, the ticket you have been buying is a National Rail point to point weekly ticket. Everyone knows that these cannot be used on London Underground services. If you can't be bothered to check the validity of your ticket then that's your hard luck.

Anonymous said...

Of course has you bought an oyster card you could have used either. Live and learn eh?

Andy Endwell said...

“National Rail point to point weekly ticket” Well pardon me for not being sad enough to learn the National Rail/tfl ticketing manual and regulations off by heart!! Clearly everyone does not know as the nice gentleman from LU let me through the Jubilee Line barrier at London Bridge after scratching his head and saying “it ought to work”. It was the gentleman at Brockley ticket office who, after some discussion with his colleague, said that it was no valid for London Overground despite it having the same start and finish point.

Anonymous said...

The staff in Brockley station are notoriously thick about the most basic level of services they provide, unfortunately, which means that customers need to do their own research and use the ticket staff as conduits for the products they need.

Anonymous said...

Andy, your purchase of the incorrect ticket, while annoying, is does not make the whole enterprise a waste of money.

Welcome to 2010 said...

Andy, you don't need to read a ticketing manual you just need to know the difference between a rail ticket and a travelcard. Whoever you spoke to was probably too busy whiping the spittle away to understand your question.

Brockley Nick said...

Anon 13.50 - you just made me snort tea through my nose.

ade said...

Let me say first that I am a bit fan of the orange/ ell/ overground/ overtube thingy but coming home last night was a nightmare! Train was delayed by at least half an hour from Whitechapel (no times on the platform reader thing) and then got stuck at NXG - staff told us the Southern train was going first = mad dash across the platform only to see orange train sneak off - all in all my journey home from Farringdon took 1hr 15 minutes - not a good start! Am protesting by working from home today:)

Tamsin said...

@Q - not trying to re-direct traffic away from my road (or only most blatantly when I suggest the N343 could go round the roundabout at the end of its journey rather than rumbling down to the bottom of the road and grinding up Pepys) just try to make sure that more traffic does not get redirected to it.
(Sorry - off topic - won't say more - love the Orange when empty - nice views of the city from high up - photos to share sometime...)

Slimewad said...

Leaving aside Andy's particular ticket predicament, he does highlight something that will put me off using the new service, great though it is. My regular commute has been from Brockley to London Bridge then a walk to the City. Getting the ELL to Shoreditch High Street would make the journey quicker and much more pleasant. But whereas I now pay around £55 for a monthly season ticket I would have to fork out £99 for a zone 1-2 travel card to use the ELL. Obviously as the two services are run by different providers they are free to charge different amounts, and you get a lot more flexibility with a travel card. But it does stop the ELL being an economical replacement for my current journey (unless I've misunderstood the pricing). Question is, is £528 a year a price worth paying to avoid Southern.....

Delayed said...

Shambles again on the late trains tonight - made worse by the departure boards still not working, and nobody at stations giving announcements about what was happening. Had to wait 27min for a train south from Canada Water - if they had let people know what was happening, we could have tubed it back to London Bridge and got a train far faster, or got a bus.

Trip home from Waterloo all up ended up taking longer than the 171. Which is saying something! I am glad ELL is here but after three late evening stuff-ups in a row without proper information being available, I'm going to give it a couple more weeks to bed in before using it late again.

Anonymous said...

Only two trains per hour after 10:30 which is rubbish. A bit of intensive lobbying is called for.

Anonymous said...

Only two trains per hour after 10:30 which is rubbish. A bit of intensive lobbying is called for.

Brockley Nick said...

But it's not true anon.

There are ELL trains direct to Brockley at:

2227
2247
2257
2317
2327
2347
2357

There are ELL trains from Brockley at:

2228
2239
2243
2254
2258
2313
2324
2343
2354

Headhunter said...

Trip home from Waterloo took longer than the 171? That's a disaster! I've walked home from Waterloo faster than the 171 and got some exercise into the bargain

Monkeyboy said...

Worked great for me the last couple of days, think there have been some probs later in the morning? Hopefully that's southern and LOROL getting their acts together. Network operators share lines all over the network so no reason why it shouldn't work well here after a shakedown.

Anonymous said...

I thought there was meant to be 8tph! If I turned up at 2228 and had to wait 19 minutes I'd be pretty annoyed. It was meant to be a turn up and go service due to its frequency.

I can understand stopping a couple of trains in the evening, but waiting more than 10 minutes is ridiculous on a supposed tube service.

Now I'll be back to checking train times i think, this is not the service we were promised...

Brockley Kate said...

Worked fine for me this morning, half an hour door to door! Fantastic.

Bit disappointed to hear about the evening trains' frequency. Definitely not a tube service with those timings.

monkeyboy said...

I would hope that it's simply a decision for bussiness reasons, I doubt there's a technical reason for the reduced frequency. If they get enough pressure they would be able to up the service so it's something that could realistically be worked on.

Brockley Kate said...

Will be interesting to see how busy the evening trains are - if they're less crowded than the London Bridge ones, then it'll still be appealing.

Anyway, when are we having a night out in Shoreditch? Anyone?

Brockley Nick said...

Needs to be remembered that Brockley is on a branch line of the ELL - the line splits at Surrey Quays and goes to NXG and NX. So at peak we get 8tph, rather than 12tph and late at night we get a service comparable to a branch of somewhere like the District Line.

I'd like more too, but as MB said it's a question of money and this is the sort of thing we need to start getting used to...

Headhunter said...

Whilst we're getting used to things, how about the Ch X off peak trains back? Seeing as the high speed Kent link, cited as the reason for cuts to these trains, has been cut back itself due to lack of demand.

Tommo said...

Slimewad at 2257 raises an important point.

National Rail season tickets cannot be used to travel to stations such as Shoreditch High Street. A travelcard of some kind must be used instead which reduces the usefulness of the ELL considerably if your daily commute is for instance Brockley to Shoreditch High Street. Some kind of a rethink on fares is surely needed to attract city commuters away from the London Bridge route?

Brockley Nick said...

Yes, it's true, that is a problem.

However, it falls upon me to point out the counter argument, which is this:

While it costs more to get to London Bridge via the ELL, almost every other type of journey is cheaper, because rather than having to buy a rail ticket and a tube ticket to get to any other tube destination, you now just have to buy one tube ticket.

Given that it's still very easy to get to LB via normal train, I'd say this is a massive net benefit...

Brockley Kate said...

Couldn't people just use Oyster PAYG to travel to Shoreditch? Wouldn't that be cheaper than a zones 1 & 2 travelcard?

Brockley Nick said...

Yes, I don't understand the point about Shoreditch - it's cheaper now than it was before - single tube journey, payable by oyster. The point about LB is valid though.

Tommo said...

Agreed. It's just a shame that the central section stations of the east London Line are not treated as individual stations for National Rail season ticketing purposes.

The East London Line has undoubtedly made travel cheaper for many users, especially those who use Oyster pay as you go and those who work in Docklands who can now buy a cheaper zones 2-3 rather than a zones 1-2 travelcard.

Tommo said...

The point about Shoreditch High Street is that you can't buy a weekly National Rail ticket from Brockley to Shoreditch High Street. You have to buy a zones 1-2 travelcard which is more expensive.

The weekly ticket from Brockley to London Bridge only is around £14. A weekly zones 1-2 travelcard which is needed to travel to Shoreditch is £25.80

Obviously if using Oyster pay as you go it makes no difference but people who use the line every day for work would use a weekly ticket as it's cheaper.

Commuters to the city are therefore more likely to buy the cheaper ticket to London Bridge and walk to work rather than the more expensive ticket to Shoreditch High Street and walk from there.

Phew...

Brockley Nick said...

Before the ELL, if you wanted to go direct, you would still have had to buy a travelcard. So the ELL makes no difference.

If your point is that it would be nice to be able to buy a national rail card that works on the tube, then yes, it would. But obviously that was never going to happen.

Anonymous said...

The point he's making is that it's cheaper to get a monthly or weekly rail ticket over a travel card, which is why most people, me included, won't be making the switch, despite the fact that the daily commute may be shorter or easier on ELL. It's probably not going to be worth the extra £44 a month - that's a lot of money to some people.

Brockley Nick said...

yes of course - but it's always been the case that a rail ticket is cheaper than a travel card. And the ELL is not part of national rail, so it was never going to be eligible.

It's like complaining that the tube is more expensive than the bus.

Tamsin said...

@ Headhunter Get in touch with the Forest Hill Society people who are the main movers on this campaign.

Welcome to 2010 said...

Don't worry Tamsin, he won't!

He's got direct train services to Charing X via St Johns as he admitted the other day so I don't know why he's brought it up again

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